Preparing to get off Klonopin

[Steven]

I've been taking 1 mg klonopin for 3 years.[started at 1/2 increased to 1 mg.] for depression, anxiety, and to sleep. This drug has done wonders for me in many ways, but now its time to come off. I've tried to taper off 1/4 at a time, but the hyperacusis [intolerance to loud sounds], lack of sleep, unbelievable groin itching, and my almost uncontrollable talking [feeling high, motor-mouth etc} made me go back on, now I take

1 1/4 at night to feel normal. Since I work as a waiter, I'm going to have to stop working to get off this. Please tell me what to expect, and how long I should plan on being out of work. Also has any one noticed an increase in rate of hair loss from Klonopin?... WILL THE HYPERACUSIS GO AWAY? this is my biggest concern at this time. Please help me. Thank you, Steve.

[barbara to pain and lortab]

I am currently taking 1 MG of Klonopin every four hours and have cut down from 12 MG over a month period without much trouble.



1 MG is a very small dose and you should be able to taper that in less than one week. You may want to see a psychiatrist about some of those problems you mentioned or even a Neurologist.



So far no hair loss on my end, but I do get up-tight when my dose is over an hour or two past due.



My psych doc put me on 12 MG of Klonopin as an in-patient for 10 days to get me off the alcohol withdrawal due to siezures I was having and then tried to reduce the dosage slowly as an out-patient. Then my psych doctor out me back in and tried to cut me down from 12 MG TO 6 MG because she was worried when I had relapsed on alcohol a couple of months ago and was mixing the two. I went into seizures and DT's in less than 36 hours. She had forced me to go into in-patient treatment, so after the DT'S attack that day I released myself. I freaked out and was ready to kill the entire staff there, I was in both alcohol and Klonopin withdrawal together. I don't know if she did that on purpose to teach me a lesson or made a mistake, but after I released my self and shook down for one more week at home and almost died of seizures I finally admitted myself again and she raised the dosage back up to 12 MG of Klonopin. Then she slowly tapered it to 6 MG over six weeks in-patient. She tried to cut another 1 1/2 MG over a three day period and I started  to shakedown again so she put me back on 6 MG. During this time I was diagnosed by a Neurologist as having a seperate seizure disorder from the withdrawal as well as withdrawal and anxiety disorder.



I am now released and am staying on the 6 MG OF Klonopin for seizures and anxiety. Also Neurontin for seizures.



Why did you decide to stop the Klonopin? Maybe the reason you are having such a hard time getting off such a small dose is you still have the anxiety disorder. Those types of mental disorders can stay with you for life. It is normal for a man to lose hair sometimes even at a fairly early age. I hear some of the SSRI'S cause hair loss such as Depakote. I got really sick on Depakote when my psych doc tried that on me. I could not take it. Anyway enough of my babbling for one day. Good Luck.

[Brian to Sick and Scared § ALL you guys]

IF the hyperacusis is related to the Klonopin withdrawal, it should go away, along with the other symptoms within at the most a few months.  I know when it is happening to you it seems like a few months is an eternity.  There is still not a great deal of firm evidence about what causes hyperacusis in most people.  Some evidence points to a brain chemistry dysfunction as being the cause in some patients, wheras a closed head injury or noise induced trauma may be the cause in other patients.  If your symptoms do not resolve you should seek a referral to an audiologist.  Furthermore, you should discuss these issues with your physician since you may need to be treated for the anxiety, etc. with another medication.

[Rand]

I wonder who wrote this  ?

"""Why did you decide to stop the Klonopin? Maybe the reason you are having such a hard time getting

     off such a small dose is you still have the anxiety disorder. Those types of mental disorders can stay

     with you for life. """"





  Barbara, this is very misleading information and very innacurate.  You probably don't understand that reducing this fast ( or even slowly ) will cause rebound  withdrawal symptoms that resemble or are much worse than the persons original problems.  They won't last forever. There is absolutely no way to tell if a person is returning to an original anxiety state when the brain is trying to reset the GABA transmitters which have been downregulated for so long.  At least a year off the drugs are needed. This is a very old TRICK used by some very ignorant doctors who do not wish to deal with the withdrawal problems that benzos can create.  It is also not true that anxiety and panic would always stay with a person for life but maybe in a few cases.  There are other ways to deal with anxiety than using these substances which are as addicting as heroin.



Steven:  



You are tapering way too fast.

If you need help I have found another board which you need to register for ( but it's free and closely moderated by 5 moderators ) and they are so much more informed about what these drugs can do since all of the 425 members there have been through this or are at various stages of dealing with benzo problems.  I hope this will help you and others who may be experiencing problems with their tranquilizers and maybe don't even know it.



It is very fair to say that not many doctors know the proper equivalencies for withdrawal.  I can also tell you that 1 mg of Clonazepam is not a low dose at all and it might take you a year to taper it off slowly but using Valium to do this would be a better choice since Clonazepams lowest dose is a .5mg tablet and it has a medium half life of 18 to 50 hours but Valium which comes in 2 mg tablets is far easier to taper from.  1 mg of Clonazepam equals roughly 20 mgs valium.  I bet few people here knew that !!  Also with the active metabolite in Valium, the half life is from 36 to 200 hours and without the metabolite it is 20 to 100 so it is easier to keep a more even blood level of valium.



Sorry you are being so misinformed here

Try this group:

http://www.egroups.com/group/benzo

[Rand]

Sorry for the double post. It was an accident.  Sorry.

[barbara to pain and lortab]

Rand, you also appear to be misinformed. Valium is also an addictive substance and since Steven is on a relatively low dose of Klonopin other anti-anxiety drugs would be more beneficial and give less chance of further addiction as Brian was mentioning above. Some withdrawal symtoms cannot be avoided even if taking Valium,(another benzodiazapine), simply to trade off for the Klonopin.



You obviously know somethings about addiction, but very little about mental disorders which in many cases are the reasons the individuals become addicted to their medications in the first place whether it be alcohol or drugs, illegal or prescribed.



There obviously was a reason Steven took Klonopin for three years. Many people also self medicate for other physical problems such as severe pain, that many addicting substances temporarily seem to help until the real addiction sets in.



Oh, by the way, Klonopin is good anti-convulsant, with very little side effects compared to the others I tried!



You should think before you type the next time.

[Rand]

Barbara



You misunderstood me.

If you go back and read why it is easier to taper off Valium than Klonopin you might get it the second time around.

I hate explaining simple things twice.

Yes all benzos are *addicting* including Valium.

Valium is the benzo of choice to taper down off benzos with.

I will repeat this, study it carefully. I know EXACTLY what I am talking about and personally know the worlds foremost expert on benzo withdrawal, a psychopharmacologist in England who ran the worlds best kown exclusive benzo detox facility for 12 years and about 400 patients during that time.  Heather Ashton is quoted by just about every expert on the subject.

I am not going to bother debating this any further seeing as you missed almost everything I was trying to say.



There is NO risk of further addiction by following the proper stepwise switchover to valium and the very gradual tapering recommended in the Ashton manual.



But Klonopin is far from ideal for tapering from. Yes it is an anti-seizure medication but also prescribed for anxiety and panic disorders though not meant for use for more than 6 weeks. I was on it for 9 years :-(  If he is taking it for epilepsy or something like that then he should not stop but if it is for anxiety/panic/sleep problems or transient pain it is far preferable to deal with the sometimes awful stmptoms of those than it is to deal with the heroin like withdrawals.  Your advice on tapering from K will only serve to make him more miserable than he would need to be.



Here is what I said before:

" using Valium to do this would be a better choice since Clonazepams lowest dose is a .5mg tablet

and it has a medium half life of 18 to 50 hours but Valium which comes in 2 mg tablets is far easier to taper from. 1 mg of Clonazepam equals roughly 20 mgs valium. I bet few people here knew that !!

Also with the active metabolite in Valium, the half life is from 36 to 200 hours and without the

metabolite it is 20 to 100 so it is easier to keep a more even blood level of valium."



You can debate this till you are blue in the face if you like but the information here is 100% accurate.  Of course withdrawal symptoms usually cannot be avoided, I did not say they could. I am saying you will get a smoother ride down using valium because of the 2 mgs tablets available compared with the lowest dose of K which is .5mgs  equal to 5 Valium tablets of 2 mg strength.  Sorry you are having a problem understanding this. maybe you should consult with a pharmacologist ?  Incidently, my own doctor is a pharmacologist at he University of British Columbia.

If you don't agree with Heather Ashton and other experts on withdrawal,  then who do you think you are ?

( nothing personal is meant by this please )



Maybe I should put it in another way so anyone here can understand the simplicity.

Let's say you are down to the lowest available tablet of Klonopin which is .5mgs  It would be literally impossible to cut this down even by shaving the tablet carefully.  Because of this, a person on his way down cannot maintain an even blood level which makes it harder to avoid the horrible withdrawals that are possible.  I used this drug and I know.   Been there done that, have you ?

Now compare this one tablet to 5 tablets of 2 mg strength. Is it not obvious that it is easier to taper down when you hace 5 scored 2 mgs tablets rather than one .5 mg tablet of K ?



Again,  .5mgs of K is equal to 10 mgs of diazepam for WITHDRAWAL PURPOSES !!

I happen to have all the protocols here but I posted it once and I'm not sure why but the site here objected to it because of the rules of the site but I am not sure which rule so instead I would point those having need of more information from people actually going through this to go to the support site:

http://www.egroups.com/group/benzo

so I don't break the rules here.  Anyway,  there are 425 members there who can answer a persons questions.  The group is growing every day by about 1 or 2 members.



I was quite insulted by your tone. You don't know who I am nor do you have the credentials to challenge the world experts on this subject who I am in personal contact with. So please step back so this person can get the proper advice.

he needs.



Thank you



Rand

[Sreven]

Thanks for all the great comments, keep'em coming, the more more information I have to work with, the better my chances for success. I WILL be checking out egroups.com, thanks rand. Any thoughts about using, melotonin, St Johns wort, Nytol, Sam-e to help with this, I've thought about Buspar, but drugs? I remember asking my original Psyc Doc at least a dozen times if I would have problems with addiction. His answer was always no!

[barbara to pain and lortab]

Rand,



WHEW!!!! And I thought I liked to babble. Yes I completely understood your initial post, however as you admitted in your second post there is no way of completely avoiding withdrawal symptoms.



You mentioned in your first post, "I can also tell you that 1 mg of Clonazapam is not a low dose at all and it might take you a year to taper it off slowly......"



This is the most rediculous thing I have read so far. A YEAR!!!!!! COME ON, GET REAL!!!! Why should anyone be playing around with addiction withdrawal for one year when it could take as little as one to two weeks using non-addictive drugs as temporary substitutes rather than another addicting drug such as Valium?



You mentioned, "I don't know who you are" and that you know the foremost authorities on addiction! OOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHH! I am so impressed! You seem to have a problem with grandioso thinking.



I don't see any credentials attached to your name, or your foremost authorities name anywhere backing you up on your statements!



As far as your so called experiences with your 9 years of Klonopin addiction withdrawal and comparing it to heroin withdrawal. Opiod withdrawals are said to be very painful but not deadly and one can get through it, especially with help. I have had Klonopin withdrawal myself and do not recall it being anything like what I have seen described as heroin withdrawal. I have not seen where you have tried benzo or alcohol withdrawal with little or no help! That can kill you. The SEIZURES AND DELIRIUM TREMENS really SUCK!!!!!!!



Thank God I am over that torture. I hope never to have to go through that again although somewhere down the line I probably will. I don't think my Doc will keep me on the 6 MG's forever, even for Status Epilepticus.



With your thinking Rand, it will take me an eternity to withdraw from that!





Steven,



I feel you should take Brian's advice you have seen on his posts here on this forum. He seems to really know what he is talking about and he has had experience with addictions and withdrawal.

[Brian to Sick and Scared § ALL you guys]

Let's keep in mind we are all here trying to help each other and none of us has all the answers.  Rand is correct that Klonopin is much stronger per mg than Valium (although 20 times may be a bit high).  I think Barbara is correct that there is usually no need to withdraw from benzodiazepines over the course of one year.  I have plenty of experience with patients withdrawing from benzos and it usually can be accomplished over a few months.  In looking back at Steven's post, he probably is withdrawing the medication too quickly, and, since even cutting down by a quarter is causing some real discomfort, switching over to Valium and then tapering it slowly would probably be beneficial.

[barbara to pain and lortab]

Thank you for clearing up that little problem. I am surprised you suggested the Valium however since Steven is still going to have to deal with the initial underlying condition which caused him to begin the Klonopin in the first place. The Valium will be a temptation similar to Klonopin in which to continue the self medicating the insomnia disorder or anxiety or whatever it is.



I guess only Steven can decide how uncomfortable the symtoms of withdrawal are that he can tolerate.



I had no problem cutting down 1 mg per week the first six weeks until the seizures began. I initially said in my first post that my Doc cut me down 1 1/2 mg in three days once I was down to 6 MG and that was a mistake. It was 3/4 in three days. The shakedowns started after that and she felt the Klonopin was worth staying on until we get the seizure problem dealt with.



At least I have not touched the booze in six weeks, but I don't like replacing it with the Klonopin either. I get an MRI in two days so hopefully that will show if anything other than withdrawal is going on. If it shows nothing than I will start to taper once again, one MG per week if my Doc allows it. The problem will be the return of alcohol craving, I do believe I am more addicted to that than to the Klonopin, although I like the effects the Klonopin gives more than booze since it doesn't make me sluggish and clouded head like the booze. By the time I would be off the Klonopin I would be well past the alcohol craving part but would still have to deal with my anxiety and depression disorder. The typhoon season is upon us so I hope for one soon. Unfortunately I cannot afford to chase Jelawat to the Ryukyu Islands! That would solve all my problems and no more fighting addictions, anxiety or the human race! LIFE STILL SUCKS!!!!

[barbara to pain and lortab]

Sorry, I am really spacing out. I made another error, I have been off the booze for eight weeks not six. I am several hours past my time to take the Klonopin because I got busy and just forget about it. I usually start to space out when it is overdue. That's one of the main side effects I notice other than the seizures. I guess that's why my mood is going downhill too so I had better get with it.

[Sreven]

Thanks again for the comments!, The valium taper down makes lots of sense, I did'nt realize the power of Klonopin and how cutting these pills with a blade and not shaving them just right could have such an effect. Any problems switching cold turkey from Klonopin to Valium? Also, I feel the taper off from K will not be as big of a problem as the long term after effects. Anyone agree?

[lily]

Hi folks.  Wow!  Important discussion going on here.  I checked in on this thread because I have been taking Klonopin, 1 mg. twice a week for about 2 years.  I also take an SSRI for anxiety disorder, but there are some situations that the SSRI alone will not get me through.  Am I at risk for serious addiction/withdrawal on this intermittant dosing?  I read in the Social Anxiety Disorder website that Klonopin is the drug of choice for treating anxiety because it's long half-life makes it less addictive.  Is this not the case?  And what is the difference between shaving the pills and cutting them?  I haven't heard that before.  



Thanks for any info.

[Sreven]

Lily, Klonopin is very addictive, and extreemly difficult to stop. DO NOT allow youself to get addicted to this stuff. It may be more addictive, it may be less addictive than other benzos, it does not matter. Please save your self from the hell many benzo users have to endure. If you are only using klonopin a few times a week, NOW is the time to give it up. Knowledge is the key. Educate yourself about the possible withdrawel problems so if you do have problems you'll know how to deal with them. Check out the web site www.egroups.com\group\benzo , you will learn a lot. Best wishes, Steven

[Rico]

Hey Steven,



Addiction is not the correct term here!



If someone is prescribed a benzodiazepine for an anxiety disorder,Panic disorder, or seizures, then the doctor is responsible for that diagnosis. I happen to take Klonopin and think it is a wonderful medication. It has virtually cured many problems that I was having and it has no side effects at all for me. Some things that Klonopin has helped tremendously for me are

GERD, IBS, social phobia, nocturnal panic attacks, insomnia, etc..



So get off your high horse and stop saying that people that take these beneficial medications are "addicts", because addiction implies abuse. I have actually decreased my initial dose of 6mg down to 2mg with no problem at all. Now I am comfortable at 2mg and have not had to raise it at all. I plan on staying on this med for the rest of my life since it helps with organic problems which I have no control over (like you make it sound we do).



You need to quit preaching that these meds are bad and evil because they are NOT!!

[barbara to pain and lortab]

Yes, I agree with everything Rico said. He hit the nail right on target. I also can cut down from the 6 MG if I choose in fact I often miss my middle of the night doses. I should stick with the 6 MG's for the seizures however so I try to stay with my doctors instructions. There are no side effects at all for me. If I miss too many doses I shakedown so I stay with the Klonopin and don't even give addiction another thought. The other anti-convulsants had too many bad, intolerable side effects for me.



Thanks Rico for standing up against some of these "holier than thou" people that post once in a while.

[outlawtorn77]

I suffer from general anxiety and have been taking klonipin and/or xanax for 3 years (presently on 2mg a day klonipin) . I asked my doctor for the klonipin instead of Xanax because of the longer half life of klonipin. WITHDRAWAL IS HELL for someone who is already nervous. After 3 years of use,I don't know if I'm taking to klonipin to avoid withdrawal or to combat anxiety, which I still seem to have. Now I'm about to come off klonipin ( a new doctor has prescribed zoloft, and eventually BuSpar) and after reading this forum, i'm scared as hell.I know what withdrawal feels like and I figured a tapered withdrawal would be unnoticeable. I think my sdoctor underestimates the withdrawal symptoms, considering I have to work a 9-5 job while doing this. What do you guys think?

[barbara to pain and lortab]

I was on 12 MG of Klonopin at one time during my in-patient withdrawal and they let me out on work pass. I had to have a driver though for safety reasons. I managed to work but it was very difficult.



That was nothing compared to working with alcohol withdrawal and seizures for 3 1/2 months before they finally sent me to the correct addiction doctor!

[tom to nino]

Any doctor who fails to recognize the seriousness of benzo detox and/or withdrawal shouldn't be presiding over a patient's going off of that kind of drug. Sounds like you need to see someone who acknowledges the dangers and rigour of coming down from these sometimes beneficial but always tricky family of drugs. Benzos are powerful medicine. They should be treated accordingly. I had a doctor take a casual attitude about me going off of Ativan after back surgery and I almost died in a benzo-withdrawal-induced seizure. Hands down the most painful and fightening moment of my life. I know of someone who bit their tongue completely off during a Valium-withdrawal-induced seizure.

[barbara to pain and lortab]

This is just my opinion but I feel your doctor needs to put you on an anti-convulsant drug such as Neurontin while you are tapering down off the Klonopin to avoid seizures and rebound anxiety. The Neurontin will make the withdrawal much less stressful. Ask for Ultram if you have too much pain. That also helps greatly to reduce the withdrawal pain and anxiety symptoms.

[outlawtorn77]

much thanks to all that replied to my problems. its good to know that i'm not alone here....thanks

[JohnDoe5432]

I'm so glad I've found this site! it's become a daily thing for me to check now, not just for klonipin withdrawal, but to remind myself that I DO have an addictive personality and can't just go out and have a beer, take a vicodin, etc. without always going too far, as I have in the past. today is the first day of my withdrawal. I took 1 mg of klonipin last night and will again tonight, as my doctor suggested. feeling OK right now



Lily, I switched from Xanax to Klonipin for general anxiety diorder because the half life of klonipin is longer. My old doctor pretty much let me self medicate myself. If I suggested something, he would prescribe it, and I had read that klonipin has a longer halflife. With Xanax my withdrawal would set in within 8 hours. The only difference with klonipin is that the withdrawal takes longer and is worse, to my experience (from running out of medication) I wouldnt worry too much if you're only taking it twice a week, but realize if you do become addicted, IT SUCKS!!!!

[tom to nino]

you don't happen to still have the phone number to that "old doctor" do you? (just kidding)

[Sreven]

To Rico. WOW! It's been a few days since I've checked this site.[It can be hard to reach my computer sitting way up on this["high horse"]. Anyway, if you read my original post, you will see where I said that this drug has done wonders for me in many ways. I have had depression and anxiety problems on and off for most of my life. When I discovered Klonopin, I thought it was a gift from heaven. That was until the problems started. I've been on this for 3 years. I suspect you have been on this for less than a year. PLEASE check out the web site <***@****> .

EDUCATE YOURSELF! Best wishes, Steven

[tom to STEVEN]

You say in your first post "but now it's time to come off" [the Klonopin]. Why, may I ask, is it time to quit the Klonopin, especially since it seems to work so well for you? Did your doctor just say that one day, or ... what? If you've effectively managed your anxiety with Klonopin for 3 years with only one increase from .5 to 1 MG, it seems to me you're using the stuff exactly as it was intended to be used. I always warn people about the potential for seizure from sudden discontinuance of benzodiazipines like Klonopin because I want the horrific seizure experience I went through to at least benefit SOMEBODY. Especially when I hear (often) of a doctor's casual or just plain ignorant approach to taking their patients off of the stuff. My orthopedist had me on Ativan for about 9 months prior to back surgery. I took it because I was in a lot of pain and the benzo seemed to potentiate my Vicodin ES. After the successful surgery, I didn't need the stuff anymore. He just shrugged and said, "Well, stop taking them." Four days later, Christmas night, I went into a six-hour seizure that resulted in a compressed vertebra (from the violent contraction of my chest muscles). The paramedics told me I had all but stopped breathing and was close to swallowing my tongue. My wife was seconds from closing the door to the bedroom to "let me sleep in" when this wonderful woman (truly my gift from god) noticed my posture and color and saved my life. My chest muscles were so traumatized from the 6-hour seizure that I couldn't walk upright for 3 weeks.



Anyway, I still regard Klonopin and its cousins to be excellent drugs when used properly, and you sound like the Klonopin Poster Boy for Sensible-Use Magazine. So what gives?

[JohnDoe5432]

Tom -- LOL  I think I had my doctor convinced I was totally responsible with drugs, maybe I should have let him know I was a recreational user (pot,LSD.....) I got ritalin from this doctor just by saying I could'nt pay attention...WOW legal meth!!! I told him I didn't like it after me and my roomates started tweeking a bit too much, to cut myself off. but curse the day he gave me xanax, and later klonipin. any positive stories here about getting off klonipin? I could use a few.



thanks to all

[Sreven]

To Tom: Why go off Klonopin? No, It was not my doctor that suggested it. I have spent much of the last year running from doctor to doctor for various problems such as tinnititis,[EXTREEM ringing in my ears] Hyperacusis, [EXTREEM sensitivity to

loud sounds]. The hypreacusis got so bad I could'nt stand being at work . I had severe itching problems, it felt like bugs. were biting me on my scalp and groin area. This was so bad it would wake me up at night. I actually went to a drugstore to get lice/crab removal stuff, but it did'nt help, since there really were no bugs. Since I was having trouble sleeping through the night, I got an increase from 1/2 mg, to 1 mg of Klonopin, and guess what!, all my other problems [and some I did'nt mention], went away. For a while.

Here's what I now know was going on. Your body will reach a tolerance for certain drugs after a certain amount of time. Once

you reach that tolerance, you start to feel withdrawel symptoms. The problems I described above are classic documented withdrawel

symtoms of Klonopin and most all other benzos. So what do you do when you reach tolerance, you up the dose!, until you reach tolerance again, the you up it again. IT NEVER ENDS.

Eventually, and it does'nt take long, the higher dose starts to cause you problems. I'm having memory problems, and I'm always bumping into things.  I've had other problems as well, not related to withdrawel, but just to the use of Klonopin. I am

now stuck between a rock and a hard place. Prescribed use causes

problems, tolerance causes problems. There is only one solution, and that is to stop. So I am now "preparing to get off Klonopin"  Steve

[petie]

What is the half life mean in reference to zanax and  klonapin...I need to stop xanax and the doc whats to start me on me on clonapine.



I have been on 80 mg of oxy for the laast three months..time to quit.. will I have withdrawals...please help

[JohnDoe5432]

Patrick - klonipin has a halflife 4 or 5 times as long as Xanax. I took both for general anxiety disorder. I'm currently weening of the klonipin. When I ran out of Xanax, I'd go into withdrawal within 8 hours. Klonipin takes a bit longer to go into withdrawal, but I think the withdrawal is also longer

lasting <---- not sure but i'm about to find out. If you take it every day, I'd mention something to your doctor about withdrawal if you ever want to come off benzos before switching. Believe me, eventually, you'll get tired of HAVING to take your medication.  good luck!

[tom to Patrick]

yeah, I'm afraid you will experience some withdrawal symptoms. Oxycodone has an especially nasty withdrawal. Don't mean to alarm you. The good news is that it's been only 3 months -- not 3 years. A lot will depend on how well your doctor takes care of you through this. If it were me, I'd want in-house medically supervised detox on something like Valium. If you haven't abused the benzos much, you can detox this way in relative comfort. They may push for out-patient, which can work, too, with a little more effort and perhaps a bit of discomfort on your part. But hell, 3 months? You absolutely can beat this, Patrick! Good luck. Post again if you want to talk.

[barbara to pain and lortab]

I don't mean to sound ignorant here or trite, I am not trying to stir up a controvery. We on this thread all realize the addictive potential opf Klonopin but I

[barbara to pain and lortab]

Steven sorry for the above post Im guess I was typing to fast and either hit the wrong key or my computer glitched as it has done before.



Anyway, as I was saying I don't want to seem sarcastic because I am not trying to be, but the symptoms you describe are also caused by anxiety disorders and other neurological problems.



I am on 6 mg of Klonopin and at one time during my in-ptatient detox was up to 12 mg. I was released after 10 days but relapsed four days later. My doc was angry. After a second in-patient attempt my doc cut the dose in half and I went into seizures and DT's within the first two days. I released myself against medical advice and did not know how to properly cut down the dosage from the pills I had left. After one week of vomiting, dizziness, hallucinations and seizures I went back to the doc and she put me back in and raised the dose back to 12 mg.



She weaned me down to 6 mg over six weeks and after confirming through EEG I really did have a seizure disorder also seperate from the withdrawal, the Neurologist suggested leaving me on the six mg's of Klonopin along with Neurontin.



I have had some minor withdrawal when missing two nighttime doses such as a little light headedness in the morning but nothing like you describe for symptoms. I know everyone is different. To me 1 mg seems to small. I have taken 2 1/2 and 3 at a time before to test how tired they would make me and was wide awake and able to perform my outdoor chores normally. I don't suggest anyone else trying that as my doctor scolded me throuroughly and warned of overdosing myself accidently, and threatened to cut me off completly which would have meant more seizures and DT's which I did not want to try again.



There has to be some other over the counter sleep aid such as Benedryl that can help get you get off that last 1 mg. It sounds to me as if you really have some other physical or mental problems and it's easy to blame the Klonopin since its the thing you have tried to change lately and have noticed effects since.



This is just me opinion, I definately am no doctor and I may even regret being on the Klonopin someday. I sure hate the seizures though.

[Pat]

For all those seasoned Klonpin withdrawl "survivors" out there, what is the average amount of time withdrawl symptoms last?  



I started taking Klonopin 8 months ago (1 mg.).  For the last 4 months I've been taking only .5mg, so I did not question my Dr. when she said to cut to .25 for a week and then stop completely.  



I've been off Klonopin for a week now; the initial extreme anxiety has decreased somewhat, although I'm still having sleep problems, anxiety nightmares and tense muscles all over!  Now my body feels like it is experiencing a giant hangover or "bug": general wooziness, extreme fatigue, heavy/weak feeling/achy limbs, chest/chest wall/ab pains, restlessness, etc. I feel like I just want to leave work and sleep for a week! Are these symptoms typical of withdrawl? This stinks! Dr. is trying to suggest that I go back on (says it's anxiety), that my low dose should only cause withdrawl symptoms for "a couple of days, a week at the most".  I'm terrified of how my body feels right now (I hope all these symptoms are withdrawl related) but I'm even more terrified to go back on it and eventually have to do it all over again.



Guess I'm just looking for some imput from other people's experience as well as some advice.

[barbara to pain and lortab]

The tiredness and fatigue does not sound like Klonopin withdrawal at all. If anything you should feel the opposite. Insomnia, hyperactive, tense, anxiety and so on. Klonopin calms you down and makes some people sleep or tired so the withdrawal should be the opposite.



Depression causes those symptoms you describe and maybe why your Doc suggested going back on the Klonopin for that reason although anti-depressants would be more logical as long as you can tolerate the side effects of those various drugs.



The Klonopin is the best for me, I love it, I hope to take it the rest of my life! I have not even been tempted to drink in almost three months and that is definately a miracle for me! The combination I am on now Neurontin, Ultram and Klonopin are taking care of all the symptoms I was self medicating with the booze before. I did not even know I was covering up a seizure disorder until I quit drinking.



Now I can work with no stress, peace of mind and no aches and pains nagging me daily. Life is geting better everyday again. It's about time. I've been fighting this problem since last October.

[John]

Due to the number of posts here and the diversity of opinions by lay people, I'm going to just jump in and offer my 2 cents worth based on work in the medical field, work with substance abusers and my own personal use experience with clonazepam (Klonopin). I suffered from panic disorder, agoraphobia, generalized anxiety and depression for at least 33 years, and used almost every type of anti-anxiety drug (and at least 3 anti-seizure meds as well) over that period of time. In the course of all that I became, back in 1962, at the age of 17, addicted to barbituates due to well-intended self-medication. I can assure you, bases on experience from both sides of the fence, that along with alcohol,

barbituated cause the most difficult and unsightly form of addiction to ingested drugs. (Nicotine is even more difficult and dangerous over the long haul). I finally was introduced to Klonopin as therapy for the panic and anxiety problems, and have used it for six years. During those 6 years I took Klonopin/

clonazepam 1mg BID (twice daily). Never once did I reach a level of tolerance that required increasing the dose. This was after discontinuing Xanax, .5 mg, 4 times a day for 5 years. I did not

overlap the drugs, and other than the usual cycle of anxiety and panic did not experience any "withdrawal" effects from stopping the Xanax. Klonopin has been a miraculous help to me, and I have not had a panic attack in 6 years, and ceased being agoraphobic within the first year. I recently decided to try and see if I might have successfully "rewired" my nervous system by halving the dose of clonazepam. At 1/2 mg. twice a day I have had NO symptoms or unease of any kind. I feel it inappropriate to refer to Clonazepam as "addictive". It is possible to experience some rebound effects *similar* to withdrawal symptoms, but it is not the same thing. (And yes, the rebound effects can include seizures if the drug is stopped abruptly). There are what is known as Recovery Addicts who frequent medical forums trying to convince people of the dangers of various benzodiazepines, but, if the drugs are used *correctly* and under the supervision of a competent pharmacologist, the effects can be nothing short of miraculous. Whether I will be able to get off Klonopin altogether

remains to be seen, and it is not really important. Getting by on half the dose will save me half the cost. The goal is *always*

to use the lowest effective dose of *any* medication, which often

means titrating upward. Oh, and I don't see any reason why a .5

mg. Klonopin tablet can't be snapped in half as the end stage of a reduction program.



John, EMT/CCT/MST and former barbituate addict

[barbara to pain and lortab]

I realize everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I feel you are very irresposible saying Klonopin is not addictive. It is proven as an addictive drug, but as I mentioned in my last post, I love it anyway. I plan to take it the rest of my life because it helps me feel like a real person and not like a high strung lunatic.



Most of my seizures were from alcohol withdrawal although I had quite a few when I was forced to cut down on the Klonopin as well and it was not at all pleasant. I felt like I was going to die. The withdrawal seizures are life threatening as well as the delirium that also goes along with it so your statements are dangerous to this forum. I hope no one takes you seriously! Your credentials could be totally fake for all we know. If they are not, then you should go back to school!

[Pat]

For those out there only on .5 mg and trying to quit, take it from me, taper longer than a week.  I've been completely off Klonopin for a week and after experiencing what I did yesterday I went to the E.R.  Blood pressure (which is normally low) was very high and unstable.  The worst part was the "vibrating head" feeling: disoriented, brain fog, weird visual disturbances and everytime I blinked I felt like I didn't know where I was for a millisecond.  ER doc said my symptoms were from withdrawl and that a week taper was too quick, to taper 3 weeks; said it's a "nasty drug" and extremely hard to withdraw from, even at small doses such as mine.  After sticking it out for a week, I hated to go on again (even to "re-taper") but I finally slept last night, feel 90% better today and actually have an appetite. I think my tiredness was because I had barely slept in a week due to my "hyperness". I can't imagine trying to taper from a stronger dose!



I think everyone at this site should remember first of all that everyone's body and therefore medication/withdrawl experience is different, and that we are all here to help one another.

[John]

Barbara,

There is no question that seizures *can* be a feature of clonazepam withdrawal, especially if withdrawal is abrupt. It doesn't happen automatically in the course of every attempt to d/c the drug, and it hasn't been in my case -- yet, anyway. In cases where they do occur, the seizures can, as you state, be life-threatening. Often such seizures occur in people who are already seizure-prone, but not always. The issue seems to be whether or not the drug in question is addictive. Addiction is a condition wherein the subject becomes metabolically dependent upon a drug just as if he were dependent upon insulin (which we all are -- are diabetics therefore to be considered addicts?). It seems the difference you have with me is primarily my stubborn contention that while opiates, barbituates, alcohol, nicotine and some synthetic pain killers are literally addictive, that most anti-seizure drugs and anxiolytics are not truly addictive, but *can*, if improperly used, cause dependency and most certainly can produce wildly unpleasant and sometimes even life-threatening withdrawal syndromes. No argument about that.



We seem to be in total agreement that clonazepam is an excellent therapy for many people (the two of us as good examples)for controlling problems that otherwise might destroy quality of life. We also seem to agree that we are pleased with the drug. My use, or abuse, of the word "addictive" is our only apparent disagreement.(My recovery from barbituate addiction, by the way, was a horrible experience, but one I felt was necessary because I could not function well while on them. This has *never* been the case with clonazepam, for me).



It isn't at all clear to me why you are defensive about the possibility that clonazepam could technically be considered as something other than clinically addictive, and it is equally unclear why this should lead you to question my credentials. Of course they could be fake. Anything you encounter on the internet

might well be fake. We have to choose for ourselves what we are going to believe. If it would make you feel better, I could fax you a copy of my credentials. I think I have been direct and reasoned in my approach to this subject, but if my opinions, based as they are on over 30 years of clinical and personal experience, are going to cause any dissension here, then I will be happy to withdraw from the discussion. I apologize if I struck

a nerve.



John

[barbara to pain and lortab]

Sorry if I made you feel so defensive. I agree on many of your points, they are quite logical. I am still fighting an alcohol addiction and had a bad experience with one of my recent psychiatrists and went through hell, seizures and DT's when she cut my Klonopin from 12 to 6 mg when I went back in-patient after relapsing. I believe she did it as a sort of punishment or something. I totally freaked out and went berserk and released myself and almost died. I went back in later that week after suffering severly and she raised the dosage back up to the 12 mg to get me back off the booze.



I realize that doesn't compare to your argeument about addiction but may be why I jumped the gun a little about the addiction warning. I am on a high dose of Klonopin still 6-8 mg a day and would hate to have anyone try to cut me down. I don't want anymore seizures or DT's!! You are free to speak your mind, don't let my moodiness shove you off to another site.



We both agreee the drug makes us feel better, and that's what matters to me!

[barbara to pain and lortab]

I had to run as I am at work and something came up so I did not finish. Most Doctors are adament about Klonopin being addictive and hate to prescribe it. I am lucky right now I have a new psychiatrist and she agrees I need the drug. But circumstances and people don't last or stay in one place forever and that could change eventually.



I hope not to have to repeat in-patient detox for Klonopin withdrawal, not only to avoid the seizures and so on, but I really feel much better since taking it. I am finally calm and can manage life much better. Some would say it is because I am now off the alcohol. That is true but if I was to go off the Klonopin I would probably go back to the booze very quickly because of my anxiety disorder.



I would like to cut down some later on, but I need to stabilize my life first.



Tell me about your experience with barituate withdrawal if you would, I am really interested to hear it. Again, I apologize if I offended you, I was just cranky, I needed my Klonopin!!! Just kidding!

[John to Barbara]

No offense taken. I realize the addiction definition is a very controversial thing, and also that many doctors are uneasy about prescribing benzo's in general. There are some very good psychopharmacologists, however, who recognize the many benefits of clonazepam and will write fairly freely.



Sounds like you've had a pretty horrible experience, and I sure wouldn't want to have to relive any of that stuff if I'd been through it. You are on a fairly high dose of K, but it's been my experience that different people can have very different metabolisms, and some people are also very highly sensitized to stimuli during and after detox, so are more prone to really bad withdrawal syndromes such as you describe. I'm glad you've found something that works for you. That's the important thing. Later on, after you feel more stable and less anxious you may want to *think* about cutting the dose back a little, but I'd only do it with the strict supervision of a doctor. You're feeling good now,

so if it ain't broke, don't fix it.



You asked about my experience with barbituate withdrawal. Well, it was not fun! I had been treated for what is now recognized as Panic Disorder with barbituates and phenytoin (Dilantin). While neither did much good, it is interesting that those were the drugs of choice, because PD can often be a seizure-like business

anyway, and they should have been more effective than they were.

At any rate, I had decided that if some was supposed to be good, then more might be better, and wound up needing a lot more phenobarb than had been prescribed for me. I won't go into the details now, but at some point, after having had dexies pushed on me by the same doctor (to overcome the hangover of barbituate use), I was pretty well screwed up, and wasn't amused at all. There weren't many avenues for resolving drug problems back then;

either you kept it to yourself and no one discussed it, or you wound up flopping around on the concrete floor of a jail cell. I chose to try and get off it on my own, with the encouragement of a good friend. The decision was also driven by a GI intolerance for the drug that was causing reflux with horrendous chest pain. I stopped using abruptly, and that was probably just as well considering the drug in question. Within 36 hours I went from mildly agitated to feeling as though my bones wanted to crawl right out of my skin. I developed severe agitation, tremors, twitching, severe stomach cramps, visual and olfactory hallucinations (which were very convincing, by the way), and my nose began to run uncontrollably. On about the 5th day of this I woke up in the middle of the night shaking as though I was sitting on top of a paint mixer. It didn't feel like anything I had experienced before. I also felt a dry ache in my throat and my heart began to race very fast. I was pretty sure I was going to die shortly, and I seemed to have little coordination, yet I began to become calm inside all this. It was really strange. I am surprised I didn't experience any clonic seizures other than very small Jacksonion ones, but I didn't. I would have liked to have slept through the whole thing, which in the end seemed to crescendo on about the 6th or 7th day with a tremendous urge to take what probably would have been a dangerous dose of the drug to just stop the withdrawal symptoms, but I held off and within the next 24 hours I slept for the better part of a day. I was highly sensitive to outside stimuli for some time afterward, but the feeling of need for the drug was gone. Panic attacks actually

began to go away after that, and soon I was free of them for a period of 3 years. At that point I was introduced to Librium and the other benzos came along over time. Nothing ever really worked

well except alprazolam, but its effect was short lived and there was always breakthrough.



So....everything ok with you?



John

[barbara to pain and lortab]

John,



Wow your story sounds like you went through hell and back. I certainly would not have wanted that experience either. Your severe shaking sounds like a seizure possibly partial status since you were conscious enough to remember it. Sounds alot like the DT's too with the hallucinations and such. Nasty either way. I hope never to go through the acute withdrawal again.



Yes, I agree I am on a high dose of K in fact I have considered cutting down slowly with the help of my new psych doc once I am stabilized. I am getting sleepy at work in the mornings, something that has never heppened before. It probably is the first warning that I need to cut down some. Otherwise I am doing fine now, no depression, but still a little stress and anxiety, more situational than biologically caused I believe.



Nice talking with you, hope to hear from you again.



Barbara

[Kathy to Pat]

I have read all entries on this site, and was delighted when I saw yours.  After being on Klonopin and Xanax for over 6 months, I completely stopped taking both a couple of weeks ago - no tapering, just stopped (have started both since).  The reason I did stopped was cuz I had been experiencing some uncomfortable gastrointestinal symptoms, and thought the meds might be causing it, so decided just not to take the drugs anymore.  I have learned A LOT since then, as 3 nights after I went off the meds, I woke up with my entire body in serious pain.  This went on for several nights, but now, like you, instead of acute pain, am having heavy/weak feeling/achy limbs.  Hangover-ish is a good description.  I just can't seem to feel right.  It is such a relief to read your entry, because also I keep wondering if there is something seriously wrong with me, although I never experienced these symptoms before I foolishly quit taking my meds!!!  I haven't seen too much else on this site about muscle ache and pain, although my doctor was very familiar with these withdrawal symptoms.  And as for wooziness and fatigue being withdrawal symptoms, if you're not sleeping because of withdrawal, that's why you're fatigued!  If you're anything like me, what's happening to my body is of great concern, and I am experiencing much anxiety because of it.  It's miserable.

[Pat to Kathy]

Hang in there!  After my awful experience which I described on the postings, I am now re-tapering, this time much slower.  After the ER visit I went back on at .25mg (half a pill) every night for about 4 weeks.  I hated to go back on (after I had been completely off for 1 week), but I sure felt better!  After my body felt more stable I started to re-taper as ER doc suggested: start skipping a day at .25 dose (for about 2 weeks), then skipping 2 nights (on my 2nd week now).  Even with this slower taper I've had withdrawl symptoms (headache, bright flashes in vision, etc.) but they're more like "background noise" then before.  Plus, after being through it once I know I'm not going crazy.  So...take heart, the anxiety is natural and will go away (it's started to for me) and withdrawl symptoms are also normal, but very frightening.  You at least seem to have a very supportive doctor - my pyschiatrist made very light of the whole withdrawl process, saying I should only feel bad a couple of days.  It wasn't till I saw ER doc that he explained the long half life and confirmed my symptoms as being withdrawl-related.  Question: did you experience any low fevers or temperature fluctuations while withdrawing?  Just curious.

[Douglas Pirie]

This is just a general reply to everyone out there.

My experience of benzo`s is that once you are on them it is very difficult to come off them. I started off on Lorazepam and was stuck on it for over 2 years at that point I realised I had a serious addiction problem as eveything in my life was falling apart. At this point I went to see my Doctor who fortunately took my problem serioiusly and started to wean me off them. 6 weeks ago he put me on to Diazepam and am now on the minimum dose, however I must say that I have been through the whole spectrum of withdrawal an emotions and sometimes not recognised these feeelings as withdrawal which is very scary. My Doc says that I don`t have far to go now but I honestly can not see yhe day when I will be free from thes drugs.Don`t be fooled by these drugs once they get hold they are hard to kick!

[Mikeg]

Hello all.  Thought I would post a couple of questions here as you all seem to have experience with Klonopin.  I was given Klonopin about 3 weeks ago for I guess what you would call "general anxiety".  I did not go to a shrink so I just explained my symptoms and the general practioner prescribed me a couple of things.  First, he gave me Paxil.  Way too much for my particular condition.  I had NO emotions what so ever.  And this was not a good thing.  It made me feel very strange so I looked it up on the net.  All kinds of people trying to get off this stuff and the withdrawals seemed to last weeks upon weeks.  That scared me as I am a recovering alcoholic.  Did not want to go through withdrawals like I had from the booz again.  Yet, here I am in a similar boat.  I first was instructed to take a .5mg dose twice a day.  That was way too much for me.  It fixed all the problems but I felt like I was drunk as Cooter Brown.  So, I started taking .5mg a day.  No real problems but then my lower back and/or kidney area started hurting.  I am a little cautious with my liver and kidneys now as I am sure that all the beer I have run though them really tore them up.  So, I decided to cut that in half.  I did and no real problems.  Now, I have been trying to take half (.25mg) every 48 hours.  On the second day, my stomach started hurting pretty bad and I started getting feelings like DT's when I was coming off the booze.  Vertigo type symptoms along with what I guess you would call mild seizures.  I really don't know what to call them.  But i use to get them real bad when I would drink real hard and be driving or even walking around the next day.



My question to you all is, have you experienced these symptoms with withdrawal?  If so, how do you best remedy them?  Do you just stick it out?  How long do they last?  I want to get off this stuff ASAP as I know that longer I take it, the worse/harder it will be.  I have guests coming out to my place in the country this weekend and so I took .25mg a little while ago.  I don't want to be driving and wig out on anyone.  Then, I have a trip to St Thomas coming up on the 9th.  Cannot feel horrible then.  I was thinking of trying to taper all the way off starting on Sunday be not taking any.  Or, maybe half of .25.  These doses are so small that it really concerns me that I have had these symptoms from them.  The doc I go to has his head in his coola.  He will give me whatever I think will work.  Not going to see him anymore.  



Have you all tried taking St john's wort or Kava Kava during the detox period?  I have both and was thinking about using them.  With the booze, I went cold turkey because it was something that really had a grip on me pschologically.  This is, or seems to be at this time, purely physical.  I have a prescription for inderal LA which I take for the anxiety symptoms.  It works ok but I still get really flushed sometimes when approached by an authority figure or some other type of socially stressful event.  My face and neck turn all red and I cannot answer questions with the answers that I had right there in my head.  Anyone have these symptoms?  If so, is there ANYTHING that will not hook my or tear up my poor ol' liver?



Sorry to drone on but this place seems to be a great starting place for information on this.  People that have been through it often know more than doctor's that are readily available.  That is not to say there are not some very knowledgeable doc's out there.  But like I told this girl the other night (and probably talked myself right out of a date), if you have never had a problem, how can you counsel people with them?  She is a drug/alcohol counselor for minimum security prisoners.  Kind of the way I feel about these doctors telling me "ah no, it's not addictive".  Or "just aper off it, no big deal at all".  BS, not being able to drive because your head is freaking out on you is a pretty big deal.  Alright, that's it.  Any input would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks and good luck to all.



MG

[paula]

IVE BEEN TAKING KLONOPIN FOR 2 YEARS. IT SUBSIDES ALL MY SYMPTOMS. IRRITABILITY, CAN'T CONCENTRATE, BRAINFOG, FACIAL PAIN, HYPERTENSION. DEPRESSION. ETC. I TRIED STOPPPING, I DEVELOPED THE SWEATS. MOOD SWINGS. NOT ON THE MARK AT ALL. THE FRONTAL FACIAL PAIN IS THE WORST. SOOO PAINFUL. IS SWAETING A PART OF WITHDRAWAL? PLEASE REPLY DESPERATE

[Barbara]

Jeeze -- talk about scaring the heck out of a person; after reading the postings here I'm not sure what I should be doing.  I've been taking .05 mg. Klonopin once a day (before bed) for a little over a year.  My doctor prescribed it for general anxiety and sleeplessness. I'm 50 years old, type II diabetic, and going through menopause.  She assured me that the extremely low dose was completely safe, and even mentioned that many people take this drug their entire lives with no ill effects.  It has indeed helped the sleep problem, although didn't do much for the anxiety.  I have just begun taking Celexa 20 mg. a day for the anxiety/depression.  The doctor who prescribed the Klonopin has left the state and I don't know if my new doc is at all informed about Klonopin, but I don't want to be left in a situation where I am out of the drug, can't get a refill, and begin suffering the rather scary withdrawals some people mention here.  I sometimes skip a night or two of Klonopin and have not noticed any ill effects.  Anyone have any advise or suggestions? Thanks.

[new Barbara]

After reading many of the postings here I wonder if I should be taking Klonopin at all.  My doctor prescribed .05 mg. per day (before bed) to treat problems with anxiety and sleeplessness.  I've been on it about a year now.  It helps the sleeping problem, but did nothing for the anxiety and depression.  I am 50 years old, type II diabetic, menopausal.  My new doctor prescribed Celaxa 40 mg. per day for the depression.  I've been on it about a month and do seem to notice some lifting of my depression -- as though I'm not carrying a 100 pound weight on my shoulders any more.  I considered stopping the Klonopin cold but now am not sure if that's such a good idea.  Since my Klonopin dosage is low perhaps it would not be a concern. Any thoughts? Thanks.

[anony-mouse]

It appears that no one has written on this forum since November of 2000, yet Google still picks up this URL if someone searches the correct terms for Klonopin. Although the regulars of this forum most likely have disappeared, I figured that I would post some information for anyone who stumbles upon these messages in the near future.

If you begin reading at the top of the page and continue downwards, you will notice that there are many varying opinion on the effects of Klonopin and the withdrawal timeline. People need to understand that, when you're posting in a forum full of other patients, you can't take everything that you read too seriously. Far too many people out there will only post their negative experiences versus posting their positive ones. And, many people who claim to post "fact" are biased for one reason or another. Unless you're an MD, you have no business claiming that any of your information is fact and/or proven. If you want to try? Cite your references at the end of your post so that people like me, who actually have knowledge of evidence-based pharmacology, can see where your information is coming from.

Klonopin is a Benzo, specifically a Class IV regulated substance per the US government. Any regulated substance, whether it be Klonopin or Heroin, will have withdrawal effects and symptoms. This is common knowledge and to attempt to dispute it is purely idiotic. Klonopin, specifically, can cause Benzodiazepine Withdrawal Syndrome. Where the argument lies is regarding the length of time needed to safely taper off of Klonopin and NOT whether or not Klonopin is an addictive substance which therefore causes withdrawal symptoms.

Klonopin is used for a variety of reasons, more commonly known for treating seizure disorders and anxiety disorders. It is used for a plethora of other reasons as well, I just don't feel the need to list them here. Since many people on this forum are taking Klonopin for anxiety disorders and/or panic disorders, I have some relevant information:

The minimum effective dose of Klonopin for anyone with an anxiety or panic disorder is 0.5mg per day. And, as was stated above, 1.0mg of Klonopin is equivalent to five 2mg tablets of Valium. However, five 2mg tablets of Valium does not equal 20mg. If you do the math correctly, 5 multiplied by 2 equals 10. Therefore, 1.0mg of Klonopin is equivalent to 10mg of Valium. So if you do the math with 0.5mg of Klonopin, it is equivalent to 5mg of Valium! The reason why Klonopin is used in patients with anxiety and panic disorders is because of it's potency (proven by the Valium comparison) - not it's fast-acting speed.

One of the downfalls of Klonopin is that it has an incredibly short half-life when compared to other Benzos in it's category. Klonopin has a half-life of between 15 and 40 hours, depending on how quickly your body metabolizes the medication. This means that the amount of Klonopin in your blood level drops by 50% every 15-40 hours, depending on the individual, which means that you can easily experience withdrawal symptoms regardless of the amount of Klonopin that you are on daily. When you compare Klonopin to Valium, you will note that Valium has a half-life of about 8.3 days (200 hours). This means that your body is eliminating 50% of the Valium in your system every 8.3 days. It is a gradual titration downwards - and gradual titrations automatically result in less withdrawal symptoms than a rapid downward titration. That should be incredibly clear.

Again, the minimum effective dose of Klonopin for someone with anxiety/panic disorder is 0.5mg per day. It is proven through evidence-based pharmacology that patients taking 4mg of Klonopin are receiving the same treatment as someone on 1.0mg of Klonopin - the only difference is that you will experience less side effects of the medication. For the above forum user who was put on 12mg of Klonopin while being treated inpatient, people need to understand that the 12mg of Klonopin was being used to treat seizures versus a mental illness - and that 12mg of Klonopin for a mental illness is only justified during moments of extreme mania, if a Benzo has been proven to work in that specific patient.

The withdrawal symptoms for any Benzo are: insomnia, nightmares, hallucinations, anxiety, panic, muscular spasms, muscular cramps and seizures - to list a few. These withdrawal periods can be incredibly similar to withdrawal from another controlled substance, depending on the amount of medication you are withdrawing from.

For someone who is taking 0.5mg per day, once per day, the withdrawal symptoms can actually be quite prominent if you miss one dose considering that there is 24 hours between each of their doses. Missing one nightly dose of Klonopin at 0.5mg, means that you will not be taking another 0.5mg dose for 48 hours after your last. And, considering the rapid titration of Klonopin, that means that your blood levels would have dropped dramatically in that 48-hour time period, allowing someone on the minimum amount of Klonopin daily to experience withdrawal symptoms.

As for me personally, I have been on Klonopin for over 1.5 years. I am currently taking 0.5mg per day, immediately before bedtime, for insomnia and my anxiety disorder. I am on such a low dose for two reasons: 1) I am a former drug addict with a former dependency problem and 2) I am on additional medications with a sedative effect which only require the minimum dose of Klonopin.

When I run out of my prescription of Klonopin without realizing it, I begin feeling the effects of withdrawal at around 39 hours past my last taken dose. Considering the fact that my body metabolizes all medications extremely quickly, the half-life of Klonopin in my system is more around the 15-hour mark than the 30 to 40-hour mark. And this, after you do all of the math, means that: by 39 hours after my last taken dose of Klonopin, my body has already dropped more than 3 quarters of the concentration in my blood stream. Now that, my dear friends, is a rapid titration downwards completely on accident, which does result in withdrawal symptoms for me.

For the poster above who was questioning whether or not to go off of 1.0mg of Klonopin cold turkey, it isn't a smart move whatsoever. You may think otherwise, but 1.0mg of Klonopin is a potent amount, as stated above. Psychiatrists recommend at least 4 half-life units in order to become stable on a medication, which means 4 half-life units to titrate downwards.

If your body metabolizes medication slowly, you would assume that your half-life is around 40 hours. If you are on 1.0mg of Klonopin per day, you would need to titrate down at a minimum of 160 hours to even be remotely safe. That equates to roughly 7 days of downward titration - 0.5mg 40 hours following your last dose. 0.25mg 40 hours later, 0.125mg 40 hours later and 0.0625mg as your last dose, a total of 160 hours after your last 1.0mg dose.

In other words, you would titrate downwards from: 1.0mg to 0.5mg, 0.5mg to 0.25mg, 0.25mg to 0.125mg and 0.125mg to 0.0625mg in 7 days. From that point, the amount of Klonopin in your system would be equivalent to a sugar pill - therefore rendering you little to no side effects whatsoever.

[s0up]

Anybody who says clonazepam helps you for your long term anxiety is WRONG.

Benzos stop working completely after just a few months of administration, and all the pill does is effectively feed a physical addiction.  You probably just have the mental image that it's doing so many wonders because what you experience when you dont take it is acute withdrawals, not anxiety.  

If you have a long term anxiety disorder, you should have been prescribed a SSRI like prozac, and if that doesn't work then perhaps buspar.  Doctors should all know not to prescribe xanax ativan valium or klonopin for long term problems.

Because of klonopins half life, you might want to switch to a more mild drug in the same class before reducing dosage.  Moving from klonopin to valium and then tapering off is the most successful way that i have seen to do it.  Even lowering your dose in the slightest amount from klonopin can cause pretty mean WD's.


My brother had this same problem, good luck.

[Violettfem]

I never knew what being addicted meant until I tried weaning myself from this drug. I am sick and in pain every day. I am only coming off a 1-1.5 mg habit for the last year and a half.

If I had known I would be this sick, I never would have taken klonapin. There are no quick fixes as far as benzos go. They are by far WORSE than coming off an opiate, and I came off Duragesic 100mg, oxicotin and vicodin mall at once. That was NOTHING compared to this.

[Very Grateful]

Thank you very much for your comments and info on Klonopin.  Of all the posts on this site, you have given me the most helpful information.

I was prescribed 1mg of Klonopin (0.5mg in the morning/0.5 at night) about 5 years ago for anxiety and panic disorder.  I went through the frequent roller coster of tapering off and going back on because I did not understand how Klonopin worked.  I would often taper off to 0.25mg at night, to taking nothing for a night or two only to find out that I could not sleep and would usually go back to 0.5mg at night and down to 0.25mg again.

Presently, I have the anxiety and panic disorder under control.  I had only been taking Klonopin to sleep.  For two months I took 0.25mg and now I haved stopped taking Klonopin completely.  I thought I had properly tapered off, but now I have been off of Klonopin for about a month and a half and presently I am experiencing extreme insomnia.  It is difficult.  I am taking a sleep aid to cope.    

What could I do to minimize the insomnia?
Would you consider me doing okay after having stopped taking Klonopin for six weeks?
Am I moving in the right direction?
How long should I expect to have withdrawals?
What else should I do?

Thank you

[dolphin74]

I feel the same. Had I known just how addictive this med. would be I would have never never never been put on it!! I am starting to be weaned off from taking 2mg a day down to .5 over a few months. I hate the withdrawls!! horrible. My doc. told me to only take it when needed I laughed at him. Its not a choce when your addicted i notice anxiety if I don't take it right when I wake up. Its horrible. I take other drugs as well that were prescribed to me..however none helps like the klonopin. I even while tring to wean off asking a friend of mine for a few of hers..lol I felt like she was my dealer. Thats bad.
I also found out how many people have gone into rehab for this..and actually its recommended for safety purposes. The withdrawls can be so bad that you need to be under supervision of a doctor.
I fear thats where I will end up:( well you have to do what you have to do.

[marcatj]

hey dolphin, i just wanted to let you know you posted this on a very old thread, and often times, people will not see it..

if you want people to see your post, please repost it by hitting the button on the top of this page that says "Post A Question."  that way it will not get overlooked.

good luck to you... and welcome to the forum...

warmly,
mj

[kanerva33]

I HAVE BEEN FORCED TO GET OFF KLONOPIN/RIVOTRIL/RIVATRIL!!! DOCTOR WILL NOT GIVE TO ME PILLS!!! AND I HAVE BEEN ONLY WITHOUT PILLS 1 DAY AND NOW I DRINK TO SELF MEDICATE MYSELF!! I AM TERRIFIED OF THE WITHDRAWS AS I HAVE BEEN THROUGH A HELVETTI OF ALOT OF WITHDRAWS IN 2007.1ST TIME TRYING TO GET OFF,I COULD SLEEP AT NIGHT,BUT I NHAD MANY PETITE MA SEIZURES AND WHEN AWAKE I HAD THE BIG ONES,GRANMA SEIZURES,I HAVE ONLY BEEN WITHOUT FOR 1 DAY AND ALREADY FEELING THE AFFECT OF IT.ALCOHOL IS NOT HELP LIKE IN USED TO IN THE PAST.I WANT OFF THIS POISON DRUG,BUT I`M AFRAID TO AND I DONT KNOW IF I`M READY.I AM SO SCARED.LAST TIME I HAD MANY SEIZURES,VERY BAD,BUT NO ONE WILL LISTEN TO ME HERE. ~MARGO       ***@****

[corey411]

If your doc is just cutting you off like that and wont listen I would go to the ER if it gets too bad. Do you want to get off these bc you are out of pills or bc they are controlling your life? Hope you are able to find some medical help. Esp. bc of the seizures. Good luck to you. Corey

[juliewave]

I WROTE TO YOU A FEW MOMENTS EARLIER.  A member mentioned you needed help. I didn't find your message until 15 minutes later.  Go to another hospital room.  Tell them you are having seizures. Grand MAL. Don't drive yourself.  You never quit this drug cold turkey.Have someone be with you right now This is common knowledge.  There has to be a doctor out there.

[ready2help]

I am not sure if it is better to post here, on this old thread, or the newer one.  Since this is the last place you posted, I will follow here.

I don't think it is necessary to go in to a long post about the dangers of suddenly stopping this med - this can definitely, absolutely be life-threatening. I agree with previous poster - go to ER. Period. You need medically-supervised care for this. Do not try to go C/T at this point. You already have a history of sz - go to ER, Please! Alcohol is not a treatment for this.

Please go to ER. I can't stress this enough.

[Nodrugs]

I have been struggling with this juggling.  Doc put me on K and X for panic attacks about one year ago.  3mg of K and 2mg. X....I was recently in a car accident and was given a miriad of different colored pills for this and that accompanied with a morphine drip.  I sustained serious injuries.  

Now to my question/experience:  I managed to stop the X approx. one month ago, and had the usual electric shocks, insomnia that has been discussed here.  Pain medications have been changed several times to now Itake 400mg. of Demerol and fluctuate the K...sometimesonly 1 mg. sometimes 4, but I want off of them!!!!  I have no transportation at this point and have approx 50 1mg pills left.  Can/will ANYONE give me an understandable titration formula so when I do run out of pills, I will not seize...this what I am most trrifed of.  I have never ad one but that does  not mean I won't.  I've worked through my panic and PTSD and want off ofthis medicine.  Someone?

Cindy

[Nodrugs]

My experience also included alcohol abuse, been sober since the ac,cident...asked docs for a detox while I was in there for injuries, they complied.  Before the accident, I tried that horrible loop of X and K to detox from Alocohol, then Alcohol to detox from X and K and it just doesn't work that way.  You NEED to get professional assistance with this...Since  I am now homebound and my doc refuses to give titration method until I go and see him, I am relying on members here to assist.  Please respond.  Took 1 mg in afternoon yesterday only but awoke this morning shaking out of my boots so had to take one this morning...scary scary stuff...

[Nodrugs]

I think I messed up who my last post was for...sorry!   It should have been to I'm too scared.  BTW, just put call into doc who put me on K but he is an old country doc AND REALLY he preferrs his patients on lots of meds as it is his income.  Psychiatrists these days are noy like they used to be...

Cindy

[joann1975]

cindy...you have posted on a really old thread...if you will click back to forum and then post a question....then start a new one and you will get alot more responses....people are probably just seeing a really old post and not realizing there is a new question on it... also you could just cut and paste your question if you don't want to retype it all!
I am sorry to hear about your situation.... anyway...please start a new thread and you will get more responses....welcome to the forum! joann

[Nodrugs]

Thank you!  I hope I did it right

[dand2008]

I have been taking klonopin and ambien for 6 years, and am trying
to wean myself off..
I was only taking 1/2 tablet of each in the evening before sleep, but
noticed I needed to take some during the day...
I try not to take it, but by 5 or 6pm I start to go thru withdrawl every night..
Tense, agitated, worried, nervoius, can't watch TV..
Has anyone had symptoms like this taking only a small dose  ( 1/2 pill )

[Bob192]

Rand,
Do you have any recommendations on how to ween myself off of Klonopin. Now I'm taking 2 tablets (.5 mg each), then going to 1 tablet (.5mg). The biggest challenge is how do I ween myself off of the 1 tablet. I tried taking a half and it didn't work. Are there any other options besides the valium option you mentioned?
Thanks,
Bob

[road2recovery]

This is an old post..it will be hard for anyone to help you this way...Go to the top where it says " Post a question"  ...That will help out

[Shell736]

I am a little surpirsed to read this, mostly becasue I did not know Clonazepam was addictive. I took it for about 6 years, .5 usually one a day, and never had a problem at all when I stopped, no withdrawals at all. Same with Xanax, and I totally stopped when I was pregnant so did not even know it was a problem or addictive. Is that unusual?

Shell

[Nodrugs]

Well, I am taking a minimum ( I tend to abuse some days two at a time 2mg.) of 16 mg of Klonopin and 8mg of Xanax a day, for about a year and 1/2.  Tried to taper and immediately abused.   Problem.  My insurance runs out in 9 days.   What am I to do?

Addicted to Hell

Also taking 400 mg. of Demerol for a knee crush car injury since April 2008...

I'm screwed.

Please contact at

***@****

[doc283]

klonopin  is a  good drug for panic attacks 1mg 3 times a day..i like 5 mg tabs better was working good but no sex drive..zanax was working well but i experienced pain in my side and hip really bad..now i take valium usually 30 mg a day seems to work well with no side affects but from my experience these drugs esp generic do not give same affect as the real deal....but i can tell you the best drug that works the best was klonopin but i did suffer no sex drive and didnt eat no different but weight gain set in so i  stopped went to valium dropped 10 pounds in 30 days..2 yrs ago was on klonopin worked all the time and i lost 40 pounds cant figure it out...they tell you generic is just as good in some cases yes but not in valium.. roche is deff the best......watson sux... malincroft worst pharmasutical company there is.. klonopin santos is best for generic.....valium generic watson good as u can get...zanax 2 mg bars is so much better than other brand unbelievable i know...but i dont drink and watch my diet in foods high fiber is the best for stomach problems...but out of all 3 klonopin has them beat but i suffered no sex drive so i give it up...seem to so very well on valium no side affects sometimes maybe a skin rash in winter but cold weather may cause that....buy ya i do misss my klonopins if u take klon deff get santos its 3 to 1 than watson...unless u can get the real deal...i wish i could get roche valium but cant afford my generic cost 13 dollars for 100... if i get roche its like 130 dollars with the v cut out iin the middle now thats 3-to 1 than watson....klonopin will stay in your body longer so if u have no side affects i would go with that....or generic zanax is really good too i guess everyone body is different and reacts different to these drugs my physicologist said zanax should not give me lower pain on my side but it does im 45 yr old guy...doesent figure....but fastest acting benzo is zanax i do now this i love it but it causes me alot of pain too bad...my experience with zanax and klonopin at my age seems like it slows my metabolisim down... valium doesent i mean who wants to be bloated from meds...everyone is different so if u have a problem tell your dr ..they usually say all the same but they r so wrong..benzo r benzos dont believe it. what works for others may not work for you....the doc...

[Mercedes175]

I just wanted to add my comments about your rebuttal to Rand.  I feel you are misreading his post.  I agree with him that Valium should be used to "taper" off Konapin when it gets down the lowest dose you can get with Klonpin as that is equivilent to 20mg of Valium.  When he recommended it would take a good year to taper off of Klonapin...he ment just that  "taper".. You response that is ridiculous confused me.  All tapering takes time.  If this person is down to 1mg of Klonapin..(atleast what I got from Rands post) is that his withdrawals from that point would be unbearable.  Again, to you 1mg is nothing but that is because you take so much.  1mg is actually alot compared to 20mg ov valium.

So his suggestion made sense (to me)..the half life and tapering quantities of valium proved far more manageable and tolerable to taper with from 1mg than just jumping off at that point or switching to worse benzo's.  

Anyway, the point may be mute now but I totally got what he was saying. He is not suggesting taking a drug for a year just to be on it..he is suggesting that 1mg is actually equivilent to 20mg of valium and you would taper off that amount if you want to lesson your w/drawals...1 year using valium made sense since you have the ability to go lower dose increments with longer half lifes and more time for your body to adjust.

Also someone asked about why get off Kloanpin..I thought Rand answered that too..you should not take Klonapin for anxiety...it has too many  horrible withdrawal symptoms for using it for that...I see good reason to get off.

[socal351]

I have been on Klonopin for almost a year now. Recently I have tapered my daily dose by 50% over the course of three months. I have had no withdraw symptoms at all. I know that everyone is different and no one really knows your body but well your body. For me my panic and anxiety came from to much energy. I'm not saying this is right for everyone but I began to substitute the medication for exercise. I am still decreasing my dose about 1/2 mg every two weeks. I have struggled with anxiety and panic my whole life, I have even been hospitalized for it. Recently I have found that the best sleeping pill, and the best anti anxiety drug, is to get off the couch and go run five miles until I'm to exhausted to even think about the side affects. (I've been on a huge list of anxiety medications) Having an anxiety disorder naturally makes me anxious about what might happen. instead of stressing, I go running, or lift weights, it really works for me.

[squidubz777]

I am 20 years old, and I have GAD,Panic Disorder,Social Phobia since I was 10 years old. Clonzepam is the only anti-anxiety that has worked for me. I was recently put on 8mg a day due to my severity. Prior to that it was 3mg a day. I got bothered when, I hear people saying getting off this is equal to Opiates/Herion, If you have ever seen someone getting off Herion it is disgusting they puke/dry heave,diahrea,dizzy,faint,there heads pound like a drum and feels like a vice, their is hot flashes and cold sweats. I am well informed I have had sessions with the man who wrote the book "Do not panic" The Anxiety guru guy and, this is not abuse if it is to correct the minds irrational set that is has naturally. But back to withdrawl the worst thing that will happen is you will shake, puke and dry heave.. if your on a low dose like 2mg a day you can get off that easy in a month. There is hope for everyone and it is not as bad as some off these people say. First of all they dont take it and dont suffer from mental illness other than ignornace, so its not their place to gauge another suffering. If you need this to function BIG DEAL, would you take a diabetic of insulon...NO because they need it to function.
God Bless

and my best advice is the internet is a alright place to talk about this stuff but talk to a vet. shrink that knows their stuff and they will draw up a plan for you to detox. Good Luck and it wont be to hard bro.