Question about Vicodin.. and safer pain relief alternatives.

[noel]

I had back surgery about 10 months ago. Before the surgery I was taking Vicodin on and off. Then after back surgery I was on Tylenol #3 with Codine. Now the last few months been on narcotics.

I have back pain and started seeing a pain management doctor. He put me on all different types of drugs and I have had three steriod injections. I still take the Vicodin for pain and was up to six a day. (ON a really bad day).

Is it addicting to take it for medical use? I am feeling quilty when I take it now because of its addictive possiblity.

I stopped taking it and I am suffering the back pain. I use heating pads which help.

Guess my question is, is Vicodin ok for long term use or even medical use??

I dont like using it when I am not in pain.. Actually I dont like feeling so spacy.

[shotsalot]

I was taking up to ten 10/325mg Vicodin a day. My doctor had prescribed me 180 pills per month. I was becoming somewhat resistant to the drug so I spoke to my doctor about it. I suggested Tramadol and he prescibed. I now have reduced my Vicodin intake and am not increasing my Tramadol intake. I may have found a balance but I am worried about long term Acetaminophen usage. Vicoprofen may be an option for me. My pain is chronic leg pain from a DVT in 2004 and ablation surgeries. I am on my feet all day at work and it pays well so I'm stuck with the pain.
Rod

[janette_A2]

Hi there I have been taking vocoder es for the last 6 years for degenerated and bulging discs in my lower back. I get 90 a month and take 3 to 4 a day which leave me short sometimes. I have tried other medications, physical therapy and nothing else works. I also get steroid injections as well. I ask my doctor about getting a higher amount of pills, just like 20 more a month and she sounded like that didn't sound very good. So instead she gave me a low dose of fentanyl
patches- which I do not like at all. I don't know if there is a maximum amount that they can perscribe or what? I have only gone up from 60-90 in the last 6 years, so I think that I am managing the vicoden very well, and I don't think that I am asking for too much. What should I do, and am I asking for too much? How could I bring it up with my doctor again? I will take any advice given. Thanks janette

[No name22]

everyone does this so don't feel bad, but look at the dates..perhaps you could repost you're Q and someone can help you

[BonnieAnn]

Good Morning and Welcome!

You are new and you don't realize that you are posting in a thread from 6 years ago. Your post may not be answered, because it will get bumped to the bottom of the pile.

Go out to the beginning of the addiction forum. On the top left you will see "Post a question". Hit that button and follow the instructions. Post exactly what you have here. There are a lot of good ppl here who will help you.

I will be watching for your post.

Take care, Bonnie

[Lenny K]

I was wondering if there was something alternative to vicodin i have a back issue since i was 12 a bad accident with 3 broken vertebrates so please advise on something else or a way i can manage my pain better love this treed lot of good people here

its really hard to get vicodins in NY when your 27 and evryone looks at you like a drug addict only if they new the reason thank god to ny underground where you can find anything

thanks for all your time
Lenny K

[susanlea]

Thank you for your kindness, I needed that. Yes he get's all three pills from 1 Dr. I'm sure he get's some off the street, he knows alot of people who are into that stuff. I believe he tried to get clean, that's why he went on methadone. Last I talked with him, he said he was down to 5mg's aday and would be off soon. Then I found out he called a friend who has neuropathy and asked him if he was still using oxy's, my friend said no. He is too scared of all the drug busts, and never hears from my ex unless he wants something. I really dont' know what he does anymore. He seems a total stranger to me now. I realize that so much more was going on that I didn't see or know about. I was bling. I still do get alittle upset when I think he just went to someone else. My friends say I'm nut's, that he had no interest in sex, affection, nothing. He would sleep all the time, never wanted to do anything. My friends tell me that he couldn't have changed in such a short time and I'm giving him more credit than he deserves. They feel he's more interested in getting pills than getting a girl. So far I seem to be doing ok, it took almost 6 years to get here, it will take awhile to get my life back. My boys are now going to Al-ateen. They like it, and want to go back. I hope this helps them. It's funny how events in life lead us in an unknown direction. I found this forum while looking in my bookmarks. My ex had been reading a post about how long it takes to get back to feeling normal. That was over 9 months ago. At first I just read, and I felt such a connection to you all. You, and everyone here opened up your hearts and soul to me. You all made me feel so welcome and not alone. No one judged me. And believe me everyone here has given me back my sanity. I would have never gone to Al-anon alone, I wouldn't have known. So in a way I owe everyone here my life. I will always love everyone here for helping me, and being there for me. You all are the most wonderful people I've had the honor of communication with. I do hope someday we do have a reunion, that would be something! There's a few of us I guarentee will be there, me included. Thank you Thomas, your words have helped me more than you know.....Love Susan

[Thomas]

don't ever worry about losing your place at the forum. The most disturbing thing for me is how much your ex reminds me of me at one time or another. With that combo of drugs, he must be really very high, lea. I've been an addict for thirty years and have a pretty impressive tolerance to this kind of stuff. But, your husband's really on the "breakfast of champions." Whew, methodone, oxy and percs at the same time? That's really industrial stength. And this is mostly coming from one doctor?

[GypsyStevi]

Dear Susan,
Wow,
you have gone through a lot. My heart goes out to you! It sounds like you have a good program going for you. Hang in there and be strong for yourself and your kids. You can't make anyone quit using until they are ready which makes it hard for their love ones. Thank you for listening to my story, and for being so warm. This website is truly a blessing, and everyone here is so kind!
Much Love:)
Jackie

[susanlea]

Dear Jackie,     I'm so happy for you that your husband is doing so well. And you, 5 months, incredible. All the people here on this forum have given me something I never really had before, a connection with God. I've always believed in him, went to Church as a kid, I know my bible, but now I feel him inside me and aways with me. I have been to the worst hell I've ever seen in my life, and through the grace of God I'm making my way back. I watched a man I've loved for over 5 years become a mean, abusive, sick, and angry man. I would have given my life for him. His addiction to oxy's caught me by surprise. I knew he would do perc's recreationally and some other things I'm not quite sure about. 2 years ago a friend who has neuropathy gave him a couple dozen oxy's. Bingo! It took me awhile to see how bad it really was. At first I would notice my pain meds missing. Then I found out he was getting 30 20mg's and 60 Percocet 650's every 2 weeks. The friend I mentioned gave him over 100 oxy's a month, and I've heard he's bought them on the street. It started that he was always feeling sick, he would sleep and then be up all night pacing. I couldn't get him to go anywhere, he just wanted to watch TV. He wouldn't talk, and I started complaining. He nolonger had an interest in kissing, sex, nothing he couldn't even laugh at a joke. Then he got really sick, he couldn't find enough pills to even get up and go to work. He was home sick for over 3 months. Finally I took him to an addiction specialist just to talk. One hour later he's in the major hospital up here in their detox unit. They had to give him methadone and clonodine for the withdrawals. He went through 5 day's of hell, meetings all day. When he got out he promised things would change, that he'd stay clean. He had a great sponser, family support and friends. 2 weeks out he started getting mean, abusive, distant and that's when he shut himself locked in another room. Wouldn't talk to me or my kids. When I challenged him he said I was crazy he was clean. He called me the very worst names in front of my kids. This was 1 year ago in June. He was getting pills again. I have never seen someone so mean and angry. Every 2 weeks he was moving out, and every 2 weeks he was so sick with withdrawals until his refil. He left the first week of Dec. He was gone a week and came back, I guess he didn't want his parents to see. He was nice at first,sorry. Then he got really sick again. Missed the whole month of Feb. Almost lost his job, 1 more time he's fired. Once again as he put it I started bitching for him to get help. He got on methadone, 30 pills every 2 weeks. No program, sponser, nothing. You don't give an addict unlimited supplies of methadone to take home. It finally blew up mid March. One night he said he hated me, I was an ugly old woman. And he left. He's called once in awhile, he's come by. He left most of his stuff here. We can't talk a fight always happens. My kids are just now getting better, they have not seen or talked to him> He hurt my kids very badly. They loved him and he can't even call and thank them for his father's day card. If you read some of my posts, you can see the whole story. I have been going to Al-anon, I have a wonderful sponser. My kids start Monday to Al-ateen, they are now 10 and 11. They want to understand his addiction. I am now starting to heal and get some of my self esteeme back, what I allowed him to take away from me. I hope my kids will get theirs back. This disease almost destroyed us. We did love him. He lied to us, hurt us and now he's deserted us. I am so hurt and angry but in time I know I will heal. I look back and I cry because I see how he manipulated me and used me both financially and emotionally. I spent over $50,000 on him during his addiction to keep us afloat. Paid his child support, gave him a car. Paid all the bills, and I'll never see any of it. It's amazing we are making it. He left me with bills and a $1500 mortgage to swing on my own. His mother now can take care of him. Last week I found out the Dr gives him now both  methadone, oxy's and perc's. Is this crazy. Thanks for listening. I've repeated this so many times, someone if not everyone's going to want to kick me off of this forum, and I wouldn't blame them. I hope soon or in a few months I won't even want to think of him anymore. He to me is now one of the lowest creatures God created. I know his time will come and he will eventually fall....Thank you Jackie, be good to yourself. You are now one of the family and we will love you....Susan

[GypsyStevi]

Dear Susan,
Here is my story...
In 1997 I got married to a man that has 3 kids, 15, 16 and 18. I have a daughter that is now 18.
I have taken pills on and off since I was 16, I am now 37. I went through being addicted to cocaine in the 80's to the point of even overdosing, and after I woke up I still wanted more. I was freebasing it, I think it took me about 5 years to get off of that and all street drugs.
Three months after I was married I found out my husband has Hep-C and needed a liver transplant. This was devastating news. Soon after that my husband started to get very sick. He is a recovering alcoholic and addict. He stopped drinking and using in 1982.
1998 was a horrible year, my husband was on his way to death, a slow death. The Hep-C caused a lot of complications, he started to sleep 18 to 20 hr. a day, he began to aspirate all of his foods and liquids into his lungs which the doctor told me he would never eat real food again because he was drowning in it. They put a treak in for breathing and a J-tube in for feeding, and I was the one that had to be trained to feed and clean him up. This all went on for the next year, I was watching him die. I was told be the dr. that if he didn't get his new liver in a week he was going to die. Three days later he got a new liver and now he is doing very well, he is even eating real food. But through all of this I felt so sad and started to make numerous trips to many different doctors with one thing on my mind, to get anything to numb my emotional pain and it worked. I also went to the dentist and insisted I needed unnecessary root canals to get more pills. I had 3 unnecessary surgeries to get pills, and it all worked which blows my mind! Finally at the end of 1998 my family doctor refereed me to a pain management doctor which was a BIG mistake. My first visit I got a script for 240 vicodin, I thought I hit the jackpot! My pain issue was I had pain in my wrist so the pain management dr. sent me to a hand dr. He told me I would only see him for my pain meds once a month. He never really looked into why I really had pain. So now that I was getting so much from one dr. I decided I would not go to all of the other Drs. I got my script once a month, I went to the hand dr. and had surgery on my wrist. I complained that I still had the pain and the pain dr. increased my pain med. to a higher dose. I went to this dr. for over a year and he never questioned me, he just asked me how many I was taking a day, and wrote out the script. My tolerance got so high, I started to run out of my monthly supply half way into the month. The pain dr. kept his prescription pad in a drawer unattended which gave me the idea to take them so I could write my own. I was getting vicodin es from him but I wanted something stronger so I wrote my own scripts for 200 norco each time. So I was taking about 30 to 40 vicodin es and norco plus xanax, and ambiem per month. I was so addicted I couldn't function without them. Every month I would say to myself I am really going to try to only take what I am supposed to so I didn't run out. But I never did. I was so numb to everything in life and didn't care. I became so depressed about all of the lying, forgery and everything that I wanted to die. I knew I needed help but didn't know where to turn. I looked online and found this website, posted a cry for help and got a reply saying what I needed to do. I knew I needed to be taken out of my routine but still didn't know what to do. Finally I called Betty Ford and tried to get into there, but they don't have a medical detox so they refereed me to this place in Loma Linda called Behavioral Medicine Center not far from me, I am in Palm Springs CA. I went with my husband and checked myself in. The detox was HELL! It was one of the hardest things I every did. I stayed there for 2 months, now I am part of their Continuing Care program and I go 2 times a week. This past week when I was there I saw the nurse that checked me in and she said I was a mess. She said I really made her work when I was there and she would go home at night and pray for me because she didn't think I was going to make it. She said I am truly a miracle which made me feel really good about myself. Through this program I learned how to let go of past issues, self esteem, self worth and self love. I am truly grateful I did make it and now that I think back I can't believe all I did just to get that stupid drug. I am back at work now also. I still have bad days, but they are nothing compared to before. I see life is good and there is so much out there to be happy about.
I know I went on and on here, once I started I couldn't stop.
If I can reach others that are suffering from this horrible disease and help it makes my day! When you are in the fog of addiction you really don't see any hope. One thing I know for sure is you couldn't help me until I was ready.
I hope this has helped you to understand from an addicts view,
Warm Wishes,
Jackie

[susanlea]

He's been gone for almost 4 months. So I don't have to watch it, just hear about it. 2 years of watching the withdrawals the obsession with oxy's was awful. I gave him a choice....rehab, program, sponser or you need to go. He chose to go after almost 6 years. My kids are just now adjusting, they are hurt and feel deserted. They have not seen or heard from him. He has come by and called when they were at school. Usually to give me a hard time or ask me for pills, patches. The morning after he left when the kids came home after being at their dad's I noticed my son's bottle of Tussinex was just about empty. It had been full the night before because my son had had 1 tsp. Things never change. You are to be so proud of yourself, 5 months clean, thats wonderful! Please tell me your story. You said that addicts are good liars and I've heard they are good manipulators. The more knowledge I get, the better my understanding. I realize I was so blind and naive about everything. When I look back I'm not sure what was real and true and what wasn't. God has blessed you, and now you're here to help other's. You didn't just go on with your life. You reached out to other's who need you, need your strength, need your experience. You must be a wonderful being. Peace and happiness to you, and thank you......Susan Lea

[GypsyStevi]

Thank you for the kind words,
I know wishing for "real" pain sounds crazy, but addicts wish for the weirdest things under the influence. Now that I am clean and have been for almost 5 months I think back to when I was taking pills, lying to all of the doctors and so on, I can't believe I did all of that. Even risking my freedom writing my own scripts, thinking about all of this makes me see this addiction takes you to your lowest point. I am sorry your friend never stopped using. I know it must be hard to watch someone continue to go through this.
Hang in there:)
Jackie

[susanlea]

God don't ever wish pain on yourself. My former boyfriend who's an addict, once told me after he got out of detox, that he was trying to think of a way that he could hurt himself, break an arm, fall down and break a leg, he even thought about taking a car door and slamming it against his wrist to break it. All this so he could get some percocet's! Addiction is a funny thing, it will make you do something so crazy, just to feed it's need. But you know what? All that, detox, the lies, the stealing, the horrible withdrawals, lost work, lost us. He's still using, he's just added methadone to it, to keep him steady till his next refil....Good Luck....Susan Lea

[GypsyStevi]

I have a lot of respect for all of you that have chronic pain. In my past I wished I had some kind of chronic pain so I had a good reason to get pain pills. Going to so many doctors, writing my own scripts not caring if I went to jail, I was very good at acting like I had pain. Us addicts are definitely good liars. Now that I look back I see how crazy it was for me to wish such an awful thought. I am very greatful I don't have chronic pain because if I did I would get anything I could, I am such a baby when it comes to pain.
I know this doesn't really have anything to do with all of the posts here, just wanted to add my thoughts,
Hang in there,
Jackie:)

[runner]

hi everyone,
Hey thanks for your comments.  Jackie, you couldn't have been more right about the addict v. dependent comment.  That's exactly what I was not only hearing from the docs but also believing.  Whether it was the Vicodin or the Darvocet, or the codeine - it didn't matter - I wasn't really "addicted" just "dependent".  After all, I use to run a lot everyday.  Now it is to the point where I just want to walk, one day, without pain and without having to feel high.  I don't think I ever really liked the feeling, but I don't know much else at this point.   Noel, I had the same experience regarding the back pain.  A laminectomy, discectomy, and then multi-level fusion was supposed to help the chronic back issue, but it did NOT.  Then there's the knee arthroscopys (did I spell that right?)  So, everything from physical therapy to accupuncture to pain management was tried but I'm still on quite a few vics everyday.  I really beleive that they bring on some of the migraines I get weekly - anyone else?  
Dr, Steve, have you heard about an alternative form of physical therapy called "anatomical therapy"?  I have heard about it a couple times over the past few months.  I went on a site called therapysolutions.com and have been reading up on it.  It makes a lot of sense.  I just feel that I almost have 2 seperate issues, the meds, and then the physical pain.  Which to tackle first?  I guess I can't look at it that way, but if I don't get some pain relief...what's the point?I want to walk and eventually jog again w/o hurting - so I'll do anything.  Anyway, I am going to test out this new therapy program (hopefully its differnt - just like it sounds)- I'll let ya'll know how I do.  Keep looking up and by all means keep talking about things, it's the only way to get though it all:)
Walter

[genebike]

I've been taking Endocet for pain from shingles. I could manage the pain with two tablets every eight hours, along with one Neurontin every eight hours. Then pain from shingles much worse. So my doc doubled the Endocet to twe tablets every eight hours, plus the one Neuronten every eight hours. After a month of this increased use of Endocet I felt addicted, somehow. So my doc reduced the Endocet to one every eight hours. WOW! Now I know I was addicted. The nausea, pain, headaches the first 24 hours after the shift from six to three Endocet was hell on wheels.

Which is why I am writing this. Now I have another problem. I belong to an HMO that caps a max on all my meds. So if I want more Endocets (for which the doc has prescribed) I have to pay about $140 instead of $10 for 90 tablets. But the cap is for 3 months. I can't afford this. So I rummaged around in my medicine chest and found some 50 tablets of Darvocet, which the doc said would be ok until I can get my Endocet. The Darvocet, however, just caused me to fall asleep during my fairly strenous low back pain exercises. so I cancelled a 10 mile bike ride. I sure do not want to lose control of my bike, even tho I only ride it on a car free bike trail. I suspect the sleepiness problem will diminish once I get used to the Darvocet (or the Vicodin, which I also have left over and, like the Darvocet, I don't remember why it was prescribed in the first place.

Comments, anyone?

[jinx'd1]

I have had chronic pain in my shoulder/neck for 3-4 years. My Dr. reluctantly gave me prescriptions for Vicodin, and I am definitely addicted. The big question in my mind is am I addicted to the "high" or am I addicted to the ability to perform daily tasks without pain? My Dr. finally ordered some blood work done (he was convinced it was a rotor cuff tear)and I have been somewhat vindicated/disappointed by the news that I may have an immune system disorder like Lupus or Fibromyalgia which causes my joint pain. Anyway, both my Dr. and I are interested in weaning me from the Vicodin. NSAIDs like Celebrex and Vioxx have been difficult for me due to stomach sensitivity, so he has started me on Ultram. The question now is, is it addictive? I am 25 years old and would like to eventually take no pills on a daily basis save a vitamin supplement. With Ultram am I trading a known evil for something as addictive yet less effective?

[Milo]

Others here will tell you differently because all of our experiences differ, but...I have talken Ultram off & on for years, & I've never had any problem with dependance/withdrawal (if I did, it was so minor I didn't notice it). It does have a slightly relaxing effect if combined with Valium (in my case, anyway). But from what I understand, it's easier on both the stomach & liver than comparable pain meds. However, since a number of people have reported major addiction problems, I would proceed cautiously until you know how this drug will affect you. Milo

[GypsyStevi]

I know from experience that Ultram is VERY addictive! Be careful! There are a lot of these drugs thatthe Doctors say are "non addictive" I had to learn the hard way. I was told Ultram and Ambien are NOT addicting, well they are VERY addicting!
Jackie

[cindi]

Yes there are other pain meds without the tylenol or aspirin such as the oxycontin's, but that is an option you must weigh heavily...even the duragesic patch.....how have your liver enzymes and your PT's been coming out?   you may wnat to consider JB's reply.....what does your doc hav to say about this?  even the Norco (hydrocodone 10mgs has less tylenol)  good luck     love to all   cindi

[slow22]

I have Anticardiolipin Antibody,so I take Coumadin and if I take Asprin or any medacation containing it my Pro time gets all messed up. I had a stroke in January 97 and every since I learned to walk again my back has been hurting the doctors have me on Vicodin 7.5 6 times a day . My question is there a pain reliver that does not contain tylinal or asprin I'm starting to worry about my liver I get a pro time every 2 weeks and a liver screen every 2 months should I ask for another test?
Thank you for taking time to anser.
slow22

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

You might try to get help from a good pharmacist about this. Or you could try www.drugchecker.com or www.rxlist.com  Good hunting! J.B.

[Pillpoppa]

Hi Noel - you will not come right until you replace all the zinc/mag you have leached out of your body over the past few years - this is what 'hanging out' really is - it's your body craving zinc/mag (zinc stops cravings/magnesium stops depression). If you don't do this it will take up to 2 years to return to normal as the only other source your body has for zinc/mag is food and then it is in such tiny amounts it takes years to build up again. If you get a blood test done you will find your levels of both are way down on what they should be.


A typical tablet contains somthing like this:

Zinc amino acid chelate 75mg
Magnesium amino acis chelate 37.5mg
Vitamin B6 10mg
Manganese amino acid chelate 10mg
Viatmin A (1000I.U.) 300mcg

Grading your habit on a scale of 1-10 (1 being occasional use and 10 being long term methadone at 100 plus mg's a day) you should take the following amount for a period of one month then slowly reduce to a daily amount of 2-3 per day.

Habit scale/size - Number of tablets per day for a month

10 10
9 9
8 8
7 7
6 6
5 5
4 4
3 3
2 3
1 2
0 2

You will notice that I recommend you never go below 2 per day. This is because zinc/mag depletion was your original problem so you should give yourself an ongoing supplement to make sure it does not happen again. I now take 2-3 per day to maintain my health. I have had no failures with this treatment (everyone OK after less than a month) and have treated addictions (including my own) as varied as methadone and cigarettes. The cigarrete smoker reduced from 2 packs per day to just 5 cigarettes per day in a week without any discomfort. If you suffer any kind of 'hang out' just increase the zinc/mag dosage and give it a liitle longer to take effect (a week or so). Don't beleive all the bullshit about drug addiction you have heard - it's all **** - this is the real deal. The drugs themselves are not actually addictive but they do leach all the zinc/mag out of your body by increasing the metabolism of them creating a shortage that gets worse the longer you use unless you replace them while you are using in which case you don't hang out when you stop - you just come straight - this is true beleive me I have tried it as have a few other people I know and none of us sufferred any hang out when we stopped.

[Milo]

Just wanted to thank you for sharing your stories, to let you & others know how much this forum has helped me. For one thing, I now understand the dangers of opiates much better than before, and will do my best to avoid possible addiction to them ever. I'm lucky in that the opiates I've taken have worked for pain but haven't gotten me high, except the very first time. So I don't crave them.
Also, while I do need meds for my chronic pain & anxiety, I agree with you -- some doctors are playing with fire writing these scripts. I was never warned of the troubles Fioricet could cause, or Valium for that matter, though I had some idea about that from the media...I have made some bad choices and need to learn how to make better ones.
Bless you both -- Milo