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This is what I understand: You will become dependant on this medication.(theres a difference between a dependant person and an addicted"addict" person).....This happens after taking the medication for a while. This is ok. Even diabetics are dependant on their meds. Then there is the issue of "tolerance." This means you will need your medication titrated.....after a while, because it tends not to work any longer.
If your not careful, you will end up taking more, and more, and more, just to feel normal (this is the case w/ most, where narcotics are concerned), you will not even feel the effects anymore...like the 'high" feeling, but if you have an educated physician who understands these issues, then he will manage your case, and taper you off of the meds to ward off severe withdrawals when necessary, when the time comes.
Now about Vicodin. This is what I am presently taking for breakthrough pain. Vicodin is not the best choice for long term treatment. Oxycontin, Mscontin, and Methadone are better choices for long term pain control, but if the media and the militant "narcophobes" LOL have there way, Oxycontin will soon be a "once was topic." There is no tylenol in these medications, and this is why they are safe for long-term use, because tylenol will, and can destroy your liver over time. I believe the max is 4,000mgs a day. I believe(correct me guys if I'm wrong)Vicoden ES 7.5s has 500mgs per tablet, so if your only taking 4 a day, you should be ok. I had to post this in a hurry, so I hope its comprehendable, and I didn't leave anything out. There are many here, more experienced(yes that's the word) than I am, and can give you very good info. Jb has liver problems, and Tom has been an addict for many years...CIn, also. Now Pixie, and Kerri are also chronic pain patients, and they can give you their spin on the topic also. Best Wishes.
I am both a life-long Rx narcotics addict and one-time back surgery patient. So, I've depended on drugs like Vicodin for several reasons, sometimes simultaneously. I don't believe people should suffer when there's relief available. It's unfortunate that the same mechanism that enables drugs like Vicodin to relieve suffering also builds tolerance and dependence.
Another thing I believe in is being honest about why you're taking a pill or a drink or whatever. If you are starting to take the Vics or the codeine when you're not in pain, you should, in my opinion, consult with a pain management specialist who can help you control your pain without becoming addicted. Angelica makes an intelligent distinction between dependence and addiction. It's an issue physicians don't pay enough attention to.
However, if it comes down to using Vics or codeine or MSContin to avoid living a life of misery, I say take the drugs with the foreknowledge that, when you don't need them anymore, you'll need to be detoxed from them. But you're lucky you're going through this today. There are a number of sophisticated techniques that will gently take you off of these meds without the classic junkie withdrawal experience, an experience I unfortunately know a lot about.
I am not like Angelica. She has no choice but to seek strong pain relief. I simply love Rx narcotics. I'm a drug addict. I've been clean from all narcotics for almost four months now, thanks to AA and a number of other caring people, but that's literally the longest I've been "clean" from opiates in thirty years. So, whatever you do, be honest with yourself about why you're reaching for that prescription bottle. If you know it's for the wrong reasons, consult a pain and /or addiction specialist and nip your problem in the bud.
I hope you feel better soon and no longer need to worry about such things as little white pills. There are so many larger issues facing us all every single day.
Peace
Thomas
Dan..
angelica
I am glad I've known you, during your most triumphant moments....
LOVE,
Angelica (:
S I X E R S S I X E R S S I X E R S S I X E R S S I X E R S
xoxoxox ^j^ ^j^
LAKERSLAKERSLAKERSLAKERS!
I hope to hear from you for a long, long time my friend, J.B.
GO SIXERS!!!
Just know if you are suffering from this horrible disease you are NOT alone! And there is help out there! Life is good and has so much to offer you.
Hang in there,
I know I am!
Jackie
I went through almost a year of testing and visits to specialists before I was prescribed any narcotics. I know that if I screw up, I'm done! Under these circumstances, narcotics are not much "fun" anymore...just necessary. When I was self prescribing, it was a whole different ball game. You know what I mean? It was a bullshit life indeed. J.B.
I haven't talked with you before but, was very intrigued with what you said. Like you, I went to rehab in Jan. 98 and I am an addict. Eight months ago, I had oral surgery, got a script again and well, you know, the rest is history. I'm actively addicted again. I am under a psychiatrist's care that is tapering me down every 3 days by .5 mg., which should be very gentle, but it's not (physically or mentally). I had a very strong AA/NA program going, got cocky and stopped going to meetings.
You indicated that you were taking more of the vicodin than I am, but I was up to 14 (10mg hydrocodone/500 tylenol) tablets each day, mixed with Darvocett, when I was desperate. In any case, I went into the hospital again for a medical detox and they discharged me after 48 hrs., saying that they were not able to help me. The psychiatrist there said that I should continue the tapering regimen because it was the safest. He called this drug, the "hollywood drug" and as you may know, you can get a "rapid detox" from this drug, if you can afford it. Well, I'm not in Hollywood and I can't afford $10,000. That's how much it costs. But, it takes 6 hrs. and you're body is clean of the opiates and then of course, you have to work your program.
Bottomline- my question to you is: How did you finally come down from all of the medication again? Did you do another medical detox and if so, how did your Drs. handle it? I'm so sick of this. I want the drugs out of my system, once and for all. At this rate, it will be another 2 months, before I'm completely clean.
I have chronic pain (fibromyalgia, migraines and TMJ), but I will not pick up another one of these pills again. I pray for the strength I need to use other non-narcotic pain relievers and I don't have a problem with muscle relaxers so I look forward to just being on that and that alone.
Thank you in advance. I look forward to you insight and response.
whitedove
Pam
***@**** - please feel free to send direct to me; I really want your response.
Also, while I do need meds for my chronic pain & anxiety, I agree with you -- some doctors are playing with fire writing these scripts. I was never warned of the troubles Fioricet could cause, or Valium for that matter, though I had some idea about that from the media...I have made some bad choices and need to learn how to make better ones.
Bless you both -- Milo
A typical tablet contains somthing like this:
Zinc amino acid chelate 75mg
Magnesium amino acis chelate 37.5mg
Vitamin B6 10mg
Manganese amino acid chelate 10mg
Viatmin A (1000I.U.) 300mcg
Grading your habit on a scale of 1-10 (1 being occasional use and 10 being long term methadone at 100 plus mg's a day) you should take the following amount for a period of one month then slowly reduce to a daily amount of 2-3 per day.
Habit scale/size - Number of tablets per day for a month
10 10
9 9
8 8
7 7
6 6
5 5
4 4
3 3
2 3
1 2
0 2
You will notice that I recommend you never go below 2 per day. This is because zinc/mag depletion was your original problem so you should give yourself an ongoing supplement to make sure it does not happen again. I now take 2-3 per day to maintain my health. I have had no failures with this treatment (everyone OK after less than a month) and have treated addictions (including my own) as varied as methadone and cigarettes. The cigarrete smoker reduced from 2 packs per day to just 5 cigarettes per day in a week without any discomfort. If you suffer any kind of 'hang out' just increase the zinc/mag dosage and give it a liitle longer to take effect (a week or so). Don't beleive all the bullshit about drug addiction you have heard - it's all **** - this is the real deal. The drugs themselves are not actually addictive but they do leach all the zinc/mag out of your body by increasing the metabolism of them creating a shortage that gets worse the longer you use unless you replace them while you are using in which case you don't hang out when you stop - you just come straight - this is true beleive me I have tried it as have a few other people I know and none of us sufferred any hang out when we stopped.
Thank you for taking time to anser.
slow22
Jackie
Which is why I am writing this. Now I have another problem. I belong to an HMO that caps a max on all my meds. So if I want more Endocets (for which the doc has prescribed) I have to pay about $140 instead of $10 for 90 tablets. But the cap is for 3 months. I can't afford this. So I rummaged around in my medicine chest and found some 50 tablets of Darvocet, which the doc said would be ok until I can get my Endocet. The Darvocet, however, just caused me to fall asleep during my fairly strenous low back pain exercises. so I cancelled a 10 mile bike ride. I sure do not want to lose control of my bike, even tho I only ride it on a car free bike trail. I suspect the sleepiness problem will diminish once I get used to the Darvocet (or the Vicodin, which I also have left over and, like the Darvocet, I don't remember why it was prescribed in the first place.
Comments, anyone?
Hey thanks for your comments. Jackie, you couldn't have been more right about the addict v. dependent comment. That's exactly what I was not only hearing from the docs but also believing. Whether it was the Vicodin or the Darvocet, or the codeine - it didn't matter - I wasn't really "addicted" just "dependent". After all, I use to run a lot everyday. Now it is to the point where I just want to walk, one day, without pain and without having to feel high. I don't think I ever really liked the feeling, but I don't know much else at this point. Noel, I had the same experience regarding the back pain. A laminectomy, discectomy, and then multi-level fusion was supposed to help the chronic back issue, but it did NOT. Then there's the knee arthroscopys (did I spell that right?) So, everything from physical therapy to accupuncture to pain management was tried but I'm still on quite a few vics everyday. I really beleive that they bring on some of the migraines I get weekly - anyone else?
Dr, Steve, have you heard about an alternative form of physical therapy called "anatomical therapy"? I have heard about it a couple times over the past few months. I went on a site called therapysolutions.com and have been reading up on it. It makes a lot of sense. I just feel that I almost have 2 seperate issues, the meds, and then the physical pain. Which to tackle first? I guess I can't look at it that way, but if I don't get some pain relief...what's the point?I want to walk and eventually jog again w/o hurting - so I'll do anything. Anyway, I am going to test out this new therapy program (hopefully its differnt - just like it sounds)- I'll let ya'll know how I do. Keep looking up and by all means keep talking about things, it's the only way to get though it all:)
Walter
I know this doesn't really have anything to do with all of the posts here, just wanted to add my thoughts,
Hang in there,
Jackie:)
I know wishing for "real" pain sounds crazy, but addicts wish for the weirdest things under the influence. Now that I am clean and have been for almost 5 months I think back to when I was taking pills, lying to all of the doctors and so on, I can't believe I did all of that. Even risking my freedom writing my own scripts, thinking about all of this makes me see this addiction takes you to your lowest point. I am sorry your friend never stopped using. I know it must be hard to watch someone continue to go through this.
Hang in there:)
Jackie
Here is my story...
In 1997 I got married to a man that has 3 kids, 15, 16 and 18. I have a daughter that is now 18.
I have taken pills on and off since I was 16, I am now 37. I went through being addicted to cocaine in the 80's to the point of even overdosing, and after I woke up I still wanted more. I was freebasing it, I think it took me about 5 years to get off of that and all street drugs.
Three months after I was married I found out my husband has Hep-C and needed a liver transplant. This was devastating news. Soon after that my husband started to get very sick. He is a recovering alcoholic and addict. He stopped drinking and using in 1982.
1998 was a horrible year, my husband was on his way to death, a slow death. The Hep-C caused a lot of complications, he started to sleep 18 to 20 hr. a day, he began to aspirate all of his foods and liquids into his lungs which the doctor told me he would never eat real food again because he was drowning in it. They put a treak in for breathing and a J-tube in for feeding, and I was the one that had to be trained to feed and clean him up. This all went on for the next year, I was watching him die. I was told be the dr. that if he didn't get his new liver in a week he was going to die. Three days later he got a new liver and now he is doing very well, he is even eating real food. But through all of this I felt so sad and started to make numerous trips to many different doctors with one thing on my mind, to get anything to numb my emotional pain and it worked. I also went to the dentist and insisted I needed unnecessary root canals to get more pills. I had 3 unnecessary surgeries to get pills, and it all worked which blows my mind! Finally at the end of 1998 my family doctor refereed me to a pain management doctor which was a BIG mistake. My first visit I got a script for 240 vicodin, I thought I hit the jackpot! My pain issue was I had pain in my wrist so the pain management dr. sent me to a hand dr. He told me I would only see him for my pain meds once a month. He never really looked into why I really had pain. So now that I was getting so much from one dr. I decided I would not go to all of the other Drs. I got my script once a month, I went to the hand dr. and had surgery on my wrist. I complained that I still had the pain and the pain dr. increased my pain med. to a higher dose. I went to this dr. for over a year and he never questioned me, he just asked me how many I was taking a day, and wrote out the script. My tolerance got so high, I started to run out of my monthly supply half way into the month. The pain dr. kept his prescription pad in a drawer unattended which gave me the idea to take them so I could write my own. I was getting vicodin es from him but I wanted something stronger so I wrote my own scripts for 200 norco each time. So I was taking about 30 to 40 vicodin es and norco plus xanax, and ambiem per month. I was so addicted I couldn't function without them. Every month I would say to myself I am really going to try to only take what I am supposed to so I didn't run out. But I never did. I was so numb to everything in life and didn't care. I became so depressed about all of the lying, forgery and everything that I wanted to die. I knew I needed help but didn't know where to turn. I looked online and found this website, posted a cry for help and got a reply saying what I needed to do. I knew I needed to be taken out of my routine but still didn't know what to do. Finally I called Betty Ford and tried to get into there, but they don't have a medical detox so they refereed me to this place in Loma Linda called Behavioral Medicine Center not far from me, I am in Palm Springs CA. I went with my husband and checked myself in. The detox was HELL! It was one of the hardest things I every did. I stayed there for 2 months, now I am part of their Continuing Care program and I go 2 times a week. This past week when I was there I saw the nurse that checked me in and she said I was a mess. She said I really made her work when I was there and she would go home at night and pray for me because she didn't think I was going to make it. She said I am truly a miracle which made me feel really good about myself. Through this program I learned how to let go of past issues, self esteem, self worth and self love. I am truly grateful I did make it and now that I think back I can't believe all I did just to get that stupid drug. I am back at work now also. I still have bad days, but they are nothing compared to before. I see life is good and there is so much out there to be happy about.
I know I went on and on here, once I started I couldn't stop.
If I can reach others that are suffering from this horrible disease and help it makes my day! When you are in the fog of addiction you really don't see any hope. One thing I know for sure is you couldn't help me until I was ready.
I hope this has helped you to understand from an addicts view,
Warm Wishes,
Jackie
Wow,
you have gone through a lot. My heart goes out to you! It sounds like you have a good program going for you. Hang in there and be strong for yourself and your kids. You can't make anyone quit using until they are ready which makes it hard for their love ones. Thank you for listening to my story, and for being so warm. This website is truly a blessing, and everyone here is so kind!
Much Love:)
Jackie
its really hard to get vicodins in NY when your 27 and evryone looks at you like a drug addict only if they new the reason thank god to ny underground where you can find anything
thanks for all your time
Lenny K
You are new and you don't realize that you are posting in a thread from 6 years ago. Your post may not be answered, because it will get bumped to the bottom of the pile.
Go out to the beginning of the addiction forum. On the top left you will see "Post a question". Hit that button and follow the instructions. Post exactly what you have here. There are a lot of good ppl here who will help you.
I will be watching for your post.
Take care, Bonnie