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Questions about suboxone
HI all, I have been on opioids for over 10 years. I have also tried to stop about a million times with in the 10 years. I can't get past a month pill free. I have been off for 13 days now and have made an appointment with a doctor to explore Suboxone, I feel like I am getting old and tired and just can't handle the cycle anymore. My question is, are there things I should know before I see the doctor. Specific questions? Any tips? This is my first time trying this route.
Thank you everyone for your kind words and info. I do plan on doing this the right way. My appointment is tomorrow. The prescribing Doctor is a Psychiatrist so therapy will be involved. I haven't decided what I will do yet. I have had a few good days. What I am worried about is the pain and also when my brain decides to use again it's like an internal fight. So far the clean me, the me I am today has never won but I do feel stronger this time, much stronger but I wondering if it's only because I know I might have the suboxone to help? Thoughts??
Awesome job on the 13 days clean! That's super!
Everyone above has made excellent points, and everyone SHOULD go into a sub program with their eyes open, after doing homework, absolutely.
That being said, it DOES work for some people. You are a chronic relapser, which is just ONE kind of person that a sub program makes sense for in some situations. Sub doesn't take away addiction, and all of the "work" still needs done, but when used properly, it CAN be a useful tool in helping suppress cravings and helping avoid continued relapses.
There are people who choose to stay on a low dose sub forever, others who use it very short term to help ONLY detox, and others as a tool for withdrawals and also a way to help someone get some clean time under their belt, allow for some normalcy away from their DOC, WHILE they're working their recovery (the most important part).
So, if you think simply taking it is enough, it's not. In order to be successful, Sub has to be part of a comprehensive recovery program that includes counseling, aftercare, education (including addiction education, and relapse education, coping skills).
A GOOD sub clinic/doctor will always be reviewing your goals with you, and helping you move toward where you want to be, not just handing out the script with no follow up til the next appt. The clinic should require (and provide) counseling (more at first, usually a combo of individual and group therapy), and there should be accountability, with a tox screen preferably at every visit, if not at least every other visit.
So, definitely think it through before you decide. While the sub topic will always be a controversial one, there ARE good things about it. Unfortunately it has got kind of a bad rap due to money hungry profit motivated docs (especially early on), and the issue of it being way overprescribed and being prescribed without a solid plan in place in addition to prescribing the sub. There are still bad sub docs out there, but there have been a lot of standards and protocols put in place since sub started being covered by insurances, so there is more and more accountability for the providers. I'd much rather a person choose a recovery plan without the use of a medication like sub or methadone, but for some, it's a valid option...and the right info needs to be out there.
Very best of luck to you. Keep in touch and let us know what you decide. The people on this site will support you regardless of what you choose to do (they're amazing)! The MOST important thing is that you want off the roller coaster. Only YOU can decide the best way to do that, especially after all of these years struggling with addiction.
Everyone above has made excellent points, and everyone SHOULD go into a sub program with their eyes open, after doing homework, absolutely.
That being said, it DOES work for some people. You are a chronic relapser, which is just ONE kind of person that a sub program makes sense for in some situations. Sub doesn't take away addiction, and all of the "work" still needs done, but when used properly, it CAN be a useful tool in helping suppress cravings and helping avoid continued relapses.
There are people who choose to stay on a low dose sub forever, others who use it very short term to help ONLY detox, and others as a tool for withdrawals and also a way to help someone get some clean time under their belt, allow for some normalcy away from their DOC, WHILE they're working their recovery (the most important part).
So, if you think simply taking it is enough, it's not. In order to be successful, Sub has to be part of a comprehensive recovery program that includes counseling, aftercare, education (including addiction education, and relapse education, coping skills).
A GOOD sub clinic/doctor will always be reviewing your goals with you, and helping you move toward where you want to be, not just handing out the script with no follow up til the next appt. The clinic should require (and provide) counseling (more at first, usually a combo of individual and group therapy), and there should be accountability, with a tox screen preferably at every visit, if not at least every other visit.
So, definitely think it through before you decide. While the sub topic will always be a controversial one, there ARE good things about it. Unfortunately it has got kind of a bad rap due to money hungry profit motivated docs (especially early on), and the issue of it being way overprescribed and being prescribed without a solid plan in place in addition to prescribing the sub. There are still bad sub docs out there, but there have been a lot of standards and protocols put in place since sub started being covered by insurances, so there is more and more accountability for the providers. I'd much rather a person choose a recovery plan without the use of a medication like sub or methadone, but for some, it's a valid option...and the right info needs to be out there.
Very best of luck to you. Keep in touch and let us know what you decide. The people on this site will support you regardless of what you choose to do (they're amazing)! The MOST important thing is that you want off the roller coaster. Only YOU can decide the best way to do that, especially after all of these years struggling with addiction.
BTW I did cold turkey for both my pregnancies. I hoped that would make me stop but then I had C sections and just went right back into it again.
I will try to answer all the questions as best I can and maybe give a little background. Really thinking about it has been more then 10 years. Probably more like 13. I have tapered myself off many times. Whe I say taper I mean I can save 10-20 and go to about one pill a day. Never really because I wanted all when I have had too. (no more access to pills) I have horrible arthritis and am in pain everyday. Let's be clear this is NOT why I am addicted to pills. I started off just trying to suppress my emotions. It worked. Then it also helped with the physical pain that would come later. 2 C sections, Gall bladder surgery, migraines and arthritis.
I have also been in therapy and it's never really helped in any meaningful way. I have found it hard to maintain being a stay at home mom for 2 boys. 2 1/2 and 5 years old.
So far I have never been to a meeting. I have never REALLY WANTED to stop before. I have been reading a lot about addiction and I am nervous that I damaged my brain permanently.
I walk a lot with my boys. I live in a city, and I do pilates and yoga as much as my husbands schedule allows. He works from 8 am- 8pm and on weekends.
I also do not hang out with anyone who uses (as far as I know) I go on playdates, to the park and monthly date nights.
I would be interested in any websites you had to share as well as recovery meditations. I know nothing about that.
I also have read a ton about sub on this site. I scares me it really does. But after this last bout of pills and how I feel now scares me too.
I am tired all the time, I am in pain. I have anxiety and I think about pills all the time. I mean all the time. I could go on and on how I feel right now but I am sure you all know what I am talking about.
I have also been in therapy and it's never really helped in any meaningful way. I have found it hard to maintain being a stay at home mom for 2 boys. 2 1/2 and 5 years old.
So far I have never been to a meeting. I have never REALLY WANTED to stop before. I have been reading a lot about addiction and I am nervous that I damaged my brain permanently.
I walk a lot with my boys. I live in a city, and I do pilates and yoga as much as my husbands schedule allows. He works from 8 am- 8pm and on weekends.
I also do not hang out with anyone who uses (as far as I know) I go on playdates, to the park and monthly date nights.
I would be interested in any websites you had to share as well as recovery meditations. I know nothing about that.
I also have read a ton about sub on this site. I scares me it really does. But after this last bout of pills and how I feel now scares me too.
I am tired all the time, I am in pain. I have anxiety and I think about pills all the time. I mean all the time. I could go on and on how I feel right now but I am sure you all know what I am talking about.
yes I was prescribed 16mg to come of a gram plus daily heroin habit but quickly realised it was way more than I needed.
Welcome to the forum and congrats on 13 days clean!
You said you rarely get past 30 days and you're worn out from the cycle.
You said that once you get on suboxone you want to get help and seek therapy for long term recovery. Can I ask you a WHOLE lot of questions w/o offending you?
Why not get help and seek therapy and work on long term recovery now?
Have you stopped putting yourself around people and places that still use pills?
Have you tried any kind of aftercare at all? Meetings, counseling, group therapy, church, celebrate recovery, smart recovery?
Have you learned how addiction affects the brain and WHY you can't shut your head off once you get past the physical part?
Would you like some web sites to learn about the disease of addiction?
Do you exercise?
Feed your spirit in any way?
Read any recovery meditations to retrain your brain?
Read any posts here on MedHelp about suboxone and those that are now wishing they had never gone on it?
I'm sure I have bombarded you and I apologize, but since you are already clean....and knowing suboxone is the the 2nd strongest opioid on the market....I would just hate to see you get addicted/chained to subs until you have tried some recovery NOW for the mental aspect of this disease.
If using new recovery tools doesn't help you with the mental....ESPECIALLY talking in person to other recovering addict.....then you could decide to go on the subs.
Just some things to think about. Most people are put on WAY too high a dose of sub. I was down to 100 mg of hydro when I quit and was put on 16 mg of sub which is equivalent to about 480 mg of hydro!!! I was SO SORRY I didn't learn about subs beforehand. But I was a sick, scared mess in the midst of w/drawal and my primary care dr suggested it. I only stayed on it 28 days total but they were the worst days of my life. Granted, I wasn't clean 13 days like you and I was put on a VERY HIGH dose for what I was coming off of.....but I didn't find this forum until I had jumped off the 16 mg cold turkey and THEN I learned about suboxone. It was backasswards crazy...and I was a mess.....but I didn't know any better either.
Hopefully, my long winded post won't deter you from at least asking yourself all those questions. Long term recovery and learning how to live w/o pills can be done on or off suboxone.....but you're already free now...so give it some serious thought, ok? Wishing you the best~
You said you rarely get past 30 days and you're worn out from the cycle.
You said that once you get on suboxone you want to get help and seek therapy for long term recovery. Can I ask you a WHOLE lot of questions w/o offending you?
Why not get help and seek therapy and work on long term recovery now?
Have you stopped putting yourself around people and places that still use pills?
Have you tried any kind of aftercare at all? Meetings, counseling, group therapy, church, celebrate recovery, smart recovery?
Have you learned how addiction affects the brain and WHY you can't shut your head off once you get past the physical part?
Would you like some web sites to learn about the disease of addiction?
Do you exercise?
Feed your spirit in any way?
Read any recovery meditations to retrain your brain?
Read any posts here on MedHelp about suboxone and those that are now wishing they had never gone on it?
I'm sure I have bombarded you and I apologize, but since you are already clean....and knowing suboxone is the the 2nd strongest opioid on the market....I would just hate to see you get addicted/chained to subs until you have tried some recovery NOW for the mental aspect of this disease.
If using new recovery tools doesn't help you with the mental....ESPECIALLY talking in person to other recovering addict.....then you could decide to go on the subs.
Just some things to think about. Most people are put on WAY too high a dose of sub. I was down to 100 mg of hydro when I quit and was put on 16 mg of sub which is equivalent to about 480 mg of hydro!!! I was SO SORRY I didn't learn about subs beforehand. But I was a sick, scared mess in the midst of w/drawal and my primary care dr suggested it. I only stayed on it 28 days total but they were the worst days of my life. Granted, I wasn't clean 13 days like you and I was put on a VERY HIGH dose for what I was coming off of.....but I didn't find this forum until I had jumped off the 16 mg cold turkey and THEN I learned about suboxone. It was backasswards crazy...and I was a mess.....but I didn't know any better either.
Hopefully, my long winded post won't deter you from at least asking yourself all those questions. Long term recovery and learning how to live w/o pills can be done on or off suboxone.....but you're already free now...so give it some serious thought, ok? Wishing you the best~
and of course on suboxone if you need an operation you will have to immediately withdraw or if have an accident and need decent pain relief they wont be able to give it to you.This was my main reason for getting off subutex after 2 years but it really wasn't easy and took months.I went from years of heavy heroin use to 4mgs of subutex down to 2mg within a week but getting off the last 0.2mg took forever.
COMMUNITY LEADER
My opinion....
If you're going to join in the Suboxone program, I would make a few suggestions.
1. Go into the program with your eyes wide open. Suboxone is just as addictive if not more addictive just like all of the other drugs we use.
2. Do the counseling, aftercare, etc...that your supposed to do in order for the suboxone program to work.
3. I wouldn't go higher than 8mg per day, at the most! I only say this b/c my mg was 24mg per day which was just overkill, but I didn't know that at the time I was taking it.
4. Remember, suboxone requires a seriously slow and long taper process to get off of. And I don't mean days...I mean weeks and months in between drops in mg.
5. Be very careful, b/c to me, they gave me a false sense of security. You must be working some type of program in order for this to work!!!!!
After reading your post above, you obviously have an issue with relapsing, and suboxone is NOT a miracle drug. It just allows time to go by without using, so the real issues of why we use still have to be addressed is what I'm trying to say, otherwise, your exchanging one drug for another. DO NOT let this doctor tell you that this is a non-addictive drug, b/c it most certainly is. Being an addict, I had a hard time tapering, so I didn't and I went cold turkey. I've heard many different things, but in order to avoid withdrawal just like you've previously gone through ( x's 10)....be ready to taper!
I wish you luck and I hope this program works for you. It didn't really for me, but were all different. N/A is what finally worked for me. If you don't mind me asking you a question......dealing with this issue for 10 years I'm wondering....are you just going cold turkey and then attempting to stay clean on your own? Like white knuckling it???? That's obviously not working...my point of asking this is b/c the ONLY difference for suboxone is that it will give you time to put a plan of action in place....but everyone has to start at the beginning....there is no easy around method.
If you're going to join in the Suboxone program, I would make a few suggestions.
1. Go into the program with your eyes wide open. Suboxone is just as addictive if not more addictive just like all of the other drugs we use.
2. Do the counseling, aftercare, etc...that your supposed to do in order for the suboxone program to work.
3. I wouldn't go higher than 8mg per day, at the most! I only say this b/c my mg was 24mg per day which was just overkill, but I didn't know that at the time I was taking it.
4. Remember, suboxone requires a seriously slow and long taper process to get off of. And I don't mean days...I mean weeks and months in between drops in mg.
5. Be very careful, b/c to me, they gave me a false sense of security. You must be working some type of program in order for this to work!!!!!
After reading your post above, you obviously have an issue with relapsing, and suboxone is NOT a miracle drug. It just allows time to go by without using, so the real issues of why we use still have to be addressed is what I'm trying to say, otherwise, your exchanging one drug for another. DO NOT let this doctor tell you that this is a non-addictive drug, b/c it most certainly is. Being an addict, I had a hard time tapering, so I didn't and I went cold turkey. I've heard many different things, but in order to avoid withdrawal just like you've previously gone through ( x's 10)....be ready to taper!
I wish you luck and I hope this program works for you. It didn't really for me, but were all different. N/A is what finally worked for me. If you don't mind me asking you a question......dealing with this issue for 10 years I'm wondering....are you just going cold turkey and then attempting to stay clean on your own? Like white knuckling it???? That's obviously not working...my point of asking this is b/c the ONLY difference for suboxone is that it will give you time to put a plan of action in place....but everyone has to start at the beginning....there is no easy around method.
but you will be substituting one addiction for another and needlessly elongating the withdrawal process! maybe something short term to take the edge off the anxiety would be more suitable. 13 days is fantastic-you really are over the worst-every day will get a little better.Find something to fill the gap that's healthier-maybe try gentle walking or swimming.=,keep busy and try to distract yourself but I really advise against the suboxone-you may regret it long term.
I have done tons of research, I need a break from thinking about pills. It is all I can think about. The physical withdrawals are better after 13 days yes but the thoughts are still here. How and where I can get them. I have constant pain and anxiety. I also have two young boys and want to be present for them. It is my understanding that taking the suboxone will not get me high but will make me feel more normal (I feel like absolute **** right now) If there was a pill in front of me I would take it but I don't want to do that. I want to get help and seek therapy for long term recovery. I have been 13 days clean before it's past 30 that trips me up.
Hi & Welcome,
I don't understand your reasoning for starting a Suboxone program when you are 13 days free. Congrats on the 13 days BTW. But I guess some people do it like that.
Suboxone is not just a pill. It is a complete program and should be followed. If you are planning on just taking a pill, or strip, then you are only replacing one substance for another and the vicious cycle will continue. What Suboxone is designed for is for those people who continually relapse (such as yourself) and need to be able to get their lives in order without using their DOC. Counseling is a must and a support group such as NA or AA is highly recommended. You will need to take this time to get to the core of your issues and to learn life skills, coping skills and relapse prevention. I always recommend 60 months to a year...TOPS. Any longer and you will be in trouble getting off of them. Once the time is ready you will need to taper off of them and be sure to follow your doctor's taper. Any Suboxone prescribing physician should know how to do that. You will go through withdrawal with the. Don't kid yourself.
If you think all of this is good then I guess you should go for it. For me, I would not do it at that point. When I was active,,,if I could have gotten 13 days together by myself then I would have just continued and got the counseling and support without the use of Suboxone.
This is a big decision. Make sure you do your research and decide how to proceed. You can search Suboxone here and read posts from members who have successfully gotten off and also from members who stayed on too long, did not involve themselves in aftercare and had a very hard time getting off.
Good luck in your decision. Keep posting and let us know what you decide.
I don't understand your reasoning for starting a Suboxone program when you are 13 days free. Congrats on the 13 days BTW. But I guess some people do it like that.
Suboxone is not just a pill. It is a complete program and should be followed. If you are planning on just taking a pill, or strip, then you are only replacing one substance for another and the vicious cycle will continue. What Suboxone is designed for is for those people who continually relapse (such as yourself) and need to be able to get their lives in order without using their DOC. Counseling is a must and a support group such as NA or AA is highly recommended. You will need to take this time to get to the core of your issues and to learn life skills, coping skills and relapse prevention. I always recommend 60 months to a year...TOPS. Any longer and you will be in trouble getting off of them. Once the time is ready you will need to taper off of them and be sure to follow your doctor's taper. Any Suboxone prescribing physician should know how to do that. You will go through withdrawal with the. Don't kid yourself.
If you think all of this is good then I guess you should go for it. For me, I would not do it at that point. When I was active,,,if I could have gotten 13 days together by myself then I would have just continued and got the counseling and support without the use of Suboxone.
This is a big decision. Make sure you do your research and decide how to proceed. You can search Suboxone here and read posts from members who have successfully gotten off and also from members who stayed on too long, did not involve themselves in aftercare and had a very hard time getting off.
Good luck in your decision. Keep posting and let us know what you decide.
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