Startin Subutex

[freedom12]

what dosage of Subutex would someone need, when they do the transition from Heroin 1/1 half bags a day  just less than a quarter of a gram, the person is aware to remain clean of Opiates previously fro 24 hrs.. Thank u...  Also any helpful tips would be greatful thank u

[freedom12]

sorry its just at the very top of this thread it states that u can discuss help with tapering an detox, im clearly not askin how to take drugs, or to buy, i just wanted to know if anyone has done this in a similar way TAPERING, AND HOW.. how would i know otherwise, ive explained all this in my previous posts, i worded my first post wrong, but I think u get my gist, as ive had some fantastic supportive answers..  thanks for the rules though, if only id of stuck with the rules as a kid!!!

[freedom12]

that wasnt aimed at u bless u!

[avisg]

There are also certain guidelines in place specific to The Addiction Communities. These guidelines are listed below and will help our members find their answers and further help the community to be more effective:

These are part of the guidelines  posts that break the guidelines we be removed ...
~   Do not post asking how or where to buy your drugs/medications.



~   Do not post asking how to pass a drug test.



~  Do not post asking for dosing information on any medication Please consult your prescribing physician  for that information.


~General info about tapering is fine but we are not doctors please to not post taper plans on the forum.

[howlingwolf]

take care x

[freedom12]

that wasnt aimed at u bless u!

[freedom12]

Yes I know I got scared too as someone replied to me stating the violation of guidelines, but if u look on the previous page, READ THIS BEFORE YOU START!  Which is on the first page it states WE ARE HERE TO HELP AND ADVISE ON DETOXIFICATION, ...... BLAH BLAH BLAH   so i think we are ok.. ta 4 ur advice xxx

[howlingwolf]

i don't know, i just saw your post earlier about 'violating the guidelines' and it made me a bit nervous!!!
but anyway, i've told you pretty much everything anyway... and like you pointed out... i think there's probably more knowledge about dosages and way to get clean on this forum than in a LOT of GP offices around the country!!
I can't remember how long i waited between my last bit of meth and my first subutex... but whatever it was, meth has got a much longer half-life (or whatever it's called) so i might have been able to wait 24 hours without a hint of discomfort... your friend will start feeling uncomfortable about 6-8 hours after he last smoked heroin... so 'i'd take it then. No point in feeling ****.... it aint gonna help!!!

[freedom12]

Are we not allowed to talk abt our own experiences on here, like what has worked 4 us, i can NOW understand not recommending dosages off the cuff, or telling ppl what to do?????????   I just want support, bth medically, to which I have done, and will do, and also from the very ppl who are trying to battle addiction, and who have bn successful, its nt like im askin how to fix.. and Im not being sarcastic.. no offence meant to anyone on here, I really want support, some Forums are stricter than others xx

[howlingwolf]

Good luck Freedom 12 and hope all goes well with your friend... i really do. take care. peace.

[howlingwolf]

SORRY... i'm not trying to be a doctor! only registered about an hour a go (when i stumbled across this thread) so still unsure of the protocol... sorry if i've said/done owt wrong! Just trying t pass on some advice drawn from experience...!

[freedom12]

To Tramahater, and Howling Wolf, thank u bth so much 4 the advice, and congrats to u bth 4 getting clean, from the bottom of my heart!    Il keep u posted re: my Friend.. God bless to u both xx

[freedom12]

I also appreciate you have to be careful as there are no qualified docs on here, so by stating certain things can be violating the guidelines... Many thanks, maybe I shud of bn a bit clearer in my question..  any success stories welcome  x

[howlingwolf]

i was using nearly a gram a day when i hooked up with the charity in Leeds. And it was pretty good stuff too. I used to buy my meth on the street and just to kind of take a 'swig' when i needed it! So i was never sure what my meth habit was until they stabilised me. Once I ws down to about 30 mg , I think they started me on 8 mg of Subutex too. and maybe i went up to 10 before being reduced further. I was working at the time so it kept me busy and i don't remember suffering too much either... and i've always been  such a WUSS when i've had even a hint of sickness in the past...
Subutex is a lot CLEANER than gear (and methadone).... so it might be a TINY weird for a coupe of days without the protective haze, but it really ain't that bad.... every time i've cold turkeyed in the past, i didn't sleep at all for weeks and that was a major reason for me relapsing each time.... after coming off the subutex i was almost fine...

[LeaAnn807]

I was not on heroin.  I have never done heroin, but I have done some pills that are similar.  It was back in 2006 when I had the sub, but it was only started after a couple of days.  I mainly have only seen methadone used for heroin.  Not so much the sub.  

Here's what I would tell my friend to do if it were me.  With clonidine, it can be done.  Take as prescribed.  It will help the WDs a lot.  At least the big stuff.  I'm not saying it will be comfortable, but it will help.  The sub is a problem partly because it has to be detoxed from also, and it can be worse!!!  

It sounds like your friend has prepared by reducing the dose.  That is great.  With the clonidine, I would get:
Mag / Cal supplement
Gaotrade
Hylands Restful Legs
Advil
Soup and bland food
Nyquil for sleep, without decongestant

All those things can be found at drug or grocery stores.  Usually!!!  

I had a HUGE habit, and I did it with clonidine and the list I gave you!!!!

I applaud you for trying to help a friend!  They will need support!  Also, read the Thomas Recipe on the health pages!  Almost forgot that!!!

[freedom12]

Thank u so much, howling wolf, thats what Im asking for EXPERIENCE!! That has gave me so much hope, and as uve stated, the protocol when transitioning from Methadone to Sub is 30mls, well one "experienced Doc had changed someone over to Subs frm 45mls, talk abt set up to fail!!! and this was only last year, as u know subutex has bn abt 4 a gd few yrs now...  I just want to no if the amount of gear Ive stated 1- 1 and a half bags aday is nt too much to do the switch, I personally think it is considering the shite quality aswel

[freedom12]

Thanks 4 that Tramahater, He is wanting to do a quick taper, and Ive heard that this can be done quiet comfortably, and he does have clonidine, and is aware it reduces Blood pressure, and has got a monitor, he has been planning this 4 a long time, and has reduced his habit over the last few weeks, as the lower the habit the "easier it is" just wondering if well under a quarter of a gram is low enough, to do the transition.. If u dont mind me askin u Tramahater, what was ur habit when u started the transition, and how long did u wait, and what was ur first dose... Many thanks  x

[howlingwolf]

ps. i'm in the UK!!

[howlingwolf]

i was on heroin for 14 years... and managed to acquire a methadone habit during this time too... about 50 mg a day.. anyway, after many, many attempts to give up (including naltexone implants) and FINALLY went to a local drug charity. They stabilised my methadone and reduced me to 30 mg within a month (the maximum you can be using before transferring to subutex) and then transferred me to subutex. It was pretty painless too. Bit of trouble sleeping and that wads about it. i was amazed. i then reduced the subutex over a month and then was clean!. That was just over two years ago and i've been clean since. honestly, it can be done. good luck.

[IBKleen]

Your friend has a history of taking something to get off of something else, all the more reason to be under a doctor's care.

I am sorry we cannot help you with the amounts and such but it is a violation of our guidelines. There are no doctors here.

To be honest, I have been here almost 3 years and I only remember 1 person taking Suboxone/Subutex to come off of Heroin. It is not widely prescribed for that here in the states.

[freedom12]

BTW  the docs over here in the u.k. r jst willing to throw it at you, and up the dose willy nilly, the same as Methadone, yes I know if used correctly they are life savers, but long term use, it seems, going by the comments ive read on here an many other forums, the worse the  monster cluck!!, I want to know if anyone has done this transition from the amount of "H" I stated.. Cheers

[LeaAnn807]

Could he/she at least talk with a doctor about it before they start?  There is really not a comfortable way to detox from heroin!  THEN they will have to detox from the sub, which is arguably worse.

It is a good idea to speak with a doc or medical professional!  Ok?  I want them to be clean too, but this could be a very bad idea.  

I was on sub once, in rehab, for a short time...under medical supervision.  I was at Talbot Recovery Campus in Atlanta for 13 weeks, so they watched me very closely.  

The discomfort can be helped by something like clonidine, but that has to be prescribed also.  I used it, and it helps SO much and is not habit forming!

[freedom12]

Thank u 4 ur comments, my Friend is extremely desperate to get clean, and has bn thru this transition many moons ago, and was on methadone b4 doin the transition, 45 mls I might add, under docs orders, I do know Subutex is extremely strong, and it has a bad name re detox because of its long half life, and from reading many, many comments on here, alot of people have said that they havn't needed the dosage what the Doc has prescribed, I am aware that I would never take comments as gospel, before advising anyone what to do, but my friend is determined to do this transition, and I thought I would ask, as many of the ppl on this forum has done this, quiet successfully. I have known manyppl in exactly the same position as my friend, ie, habit and ready to do transition, and the docs would recommend to start with 8mgs, then 10 the nxt day, then increase the nxt day if still feelin crap, but the first few days will be crap as the heroin is comin out of system, I jst dont want my friend to be on a high dose, which in turn will make it harder to come off...  Is there anyone out there who has done it on a lower dose, we are hoping that he can do it quiet quickly and comfortably, and is there anything he cud take to cushion the inevitable discomfort..   experiences welcome.. many thanks   Bless u all x

[LeaAnn807]

That info has to come from a doctor.  It's not a good idea to start subutex without medical supervision.

[tiggz1977]

ya please see a doctor. you want to get clean I can tell, but we don't have all the answers here we will support you getting clean and tell you were you can go for help but as for dosage you really need to speak to a doctor and or take the long hard steps into a rehab facility they will help you my friend as long as you want to stop.

God bless