Starting suboxone on Monday - can I take?

[JENN5]

Something to help while I go through the withdrawal period - the time before I see the doc.  So I'm talking Sunday night and Monday.  I have Ativan and I also have Valium.  I talked to the nurse briefly and tried to call today but they are closed.  I asked her if I can take a sleeping aide and she said yes anything that does not contain opiates.  However, I've been reading and reading about suboxone - withdrawal - you name it (the past few days - ever since I was brave enough to make the decision to get off my norcos) and it says see a doctor and be careful about taking these other meds.  So now I'm unsure.  Maybe I can take them but just not once I start the suboxone.  Not sure.  So my first question:  CAN I TAKE ATIVAN OR VALIUM OR SOMETHING SIMILAR TO HELP ME THROUGH THE WITHDRAWAL PERIOD?

Also, the nurse said I have to wait 24 hours before I come in and see the doc and take the meds - so that I'm in withdrawal.  Know what withdrawal is like I am TERRIFIED.  So I was thinking I'm supposed to stop the meds at 2pm on Sunday for my doc appt at 2pm on Monday.  I'm wondering if instead I can stop at around 6 instead. Meaning I would be off for 20 hours instead of 24.  My thinking - research shows the methadone and heroin etc stay in longer but norco not as long.  So maybe they are just being safe by having the 24 hours directions.  I wonder if I can get away with only being off for 18-20 hours.  It would be so much easier I think and anyway I would still be going through withdrawal by 2pm on Monday cuz I start feeling bad after only a few hours of not taking anything.  But I dont want to get really sick either if I take the sub and it's not been long enough.  SO GETTING OFF NORCOS DOES IT REALLY HAVE TO BE A FULL 24 HOURS OR CAN IT BE A LITTLE LESS TIME FOR THE WITHDRAWAL?

[JENN5]

But you mean the bad effects to take the benz WHILE taking the sub right?  I was just going to take it tomorrow night to get me through the night before I see the doc monday afternoon...

[JENN5]

Sorry didn't see your question at first.  I'm coming off around 30 or so norcos a day

[wait2long]

my sub doc started me on 4mgs, then wait 2 hours, if it didnt stop the withdrawals, take another 4mgs...i did that the first 5 days (32mgs split up throughout the day) finally my doctor said for me to try a split dose, because i still wasnt getting any releif from the withdrawals...so 16mgs in the morning, and 16mgs in the evening...it worked a little bit better, but thats as high as she wanted me to go (she has had 2 patients that actually took 36 mgs daily and got relief, but...)i was somewhat better, but it was 5 weeks before i actually felt the normalcy that i have heard everyone speak of...it was a long haul, but i did it...so glad its over, and refuse to go back there, as i am not sure i could do it again...i don't think anyone here means they went right to 32mgs or 16mgs with their first dosing... and i am now down to 10mgs, where i will stay, i have no cravings and feel pretty darn good...i have some problems with depression and anxiety..but i did before the addiction...

[fishmeal]

Funny thing is that you will not need to take anything else.  Start out with a little and take it to get the wd's away,,, keep it simple and listen to your body.

[jcknife37]

My doc told me that the benzo's can cause respiratory distress and act a lot like methadone and benzo's. You don't get high but you get all of the bad side effectes and can possibly od since cytochrome p450 is unpredictable. It can make you feel great one day and kill you the next, or not ever make a noticable difference whatsoever.

Hope that helps,


V

[FLaddict]

If I would have started on 16mgs  I would have been really sick... that is a crazy high dose to start.. The doc training manual says to not start above 8mgs with the first start dose and then wait to see how it effects you.. if you happen to be allergic do you really want 16mgs of this stuff in your body?? Not to mention I know 4 people who were started on too high of doses for them and they got really sick for most of the first week.. some people are just fine starting at 4mgs or even 6mgs.. I started at 4mgs the first morning and i felt high on that.. so i can't imagine what would have happened if i took a high dose..

[wait2long]

i was on the full 32 mgs dose for 5 weeks right from the start...never got any type of high or feeling from it at all whatsoever...not once.

[notmenow!]

Go with the ativan it has a much shorter half life than Valium which has a longer half like. To all that think 16mg is a high dose my be right, It really depends on how much of the opiate you use to taking to feel comfortable, not high because the sub does not get me high it just makes me feel normal and functional. They say 1mg of suboxone is equal to 50mgs of morphine in tablet form. However there is a ceiling on the suboxone of 32mg per day. The suboxone or buprenorphine is a partial opioid agonist that blocks roughly half the opiates from attaching to receptors in the brain. An opioid antagonist such as naloxone at the appropriate dose blocks other opiates from attaching to receptors as well thus preventing an overdose of full opioid agonist such as oxycontin, heroin,
________________NOAH

[kyjobr]

I am also a firm believer that some people are wired so that their brains do not make the "right" amount of its own opiate type chemicals.  There are studies being done all over the place for using sub for depression.  If it can keep me happy without making me high and you don't build a tolerance, then why wouldn't I use it?  In fact if when I get off the depression comes back (have had it since I was a young child, way before using) then I may go back on sub just for that.  

[Gobig]

Btw, it doesn't get you high like dolphine doesn't get you high.  I've been clean now for seven months - if I took 16mgs of sub. today, I'd be pretty darned high.

[Gobig]

I did it - not just for folks with families (I'm one of those) but for folks who need to keep going to work (I'm one of those, too).  I'm all for sub.!  Worked great for me.

[hillary5]

it also helps w/pain if you're someone who has severe pain problems....but at least there not taking there DOC anymore and the suboxone doesn't get you high either ... so, for some of us who are unable to go to rehab because of families to take care of or financial reasons, why not go this route .. i know if i hadn't started, there is no way i would be able to take care of my young children -

[Gobig]

For the record, I see a lot of mention of sub. taking away cravings - of course it does, your body is getting what it craves and that's opiates.

[eliminnopee]

     "You need at least 16mg of suboxone to take away the cravings"  
This may be true in certain cases, but it is not a solidly true statement.  Personally I took 4mgs and one half hour later I was fine, like I never felt bad in the first place.

[JENN5]

No I've never taken any methadone.  Just norco.  I'm prescribed Norco and morphine for my back but really dont use the morphine unless it's bad and haven't used it in over 3 weeks.

[wait2long]

did you take any methadone? if so when was the last time you took it, because that kind of changes the dynamics of it a little bit...

[Gobig]

For sure - and then you'll feel just great!  How many Norcos a day you coming off of?

[JENN5]

Thanks.  I think I'm going to try to be off for 17 hours.  I know by then I will be in withdrawal for sure anyway.  

[Gobig]

Methadone - longer half life - learned that the hard way.  The "dolph" comes from Adolf - twisted roots that drug has - but it certainly helped the week I needed it before getting a sub. doc.  12 hours or more off of Norco, and you'll be fine.  The Dr. will look at your eyes and be able to tell where you're at.

[JENN5]

What is dolphine?  that's what I'm afraid of I dont want to take the sleep aids go there and have them say no!  The nurse said you can take sleep aides if it's not an opiate but I wonder...I'm hesitant.  I've been looking online for hours now..

[Gobig]

I went to the doc. 12 hours, like the said, after my last dose, and when I got there, after telling them I was on dolphine for a week, then made me wait one extra day - ouch!

[JENN5]

I have taken ativan in the past but only once in a while.  the valium I got 5 of them from a friend in case I needed them.  So i'm not used to taking them.  Iknow the last time I went through withdrawal I took ativans to help sleep.  So I'm thinking it's not safe to take them while I'm on sub but to take them before I hope would be safe...

[kyjobr]

I don't know about the 16mg minimum to take away cravings.  I was fine with 4mg and many people take way under 16mg.  I think it all depends on the person and the goal is to take the smallest amount that takes away w/d and cravings.  

[notmenow!]

HELLO JEN, I am on suboxone. When I started the induction about 12 hrs after my last dose as my pain management dr was putting me on suboxone maintenance as I had back surgery to alleviate 70% of the pain. Prior to that I was on 120mg of Oxycontin and 80mg  of Norco a day. So she told me not to use anything after 9pm. The induction was done with subutex which has no naloxone in it. This way I would not have a reaction just in case there was too much opiates on my receptors. I used the subutex for 3 days then switched over to suboxone which comes in 8/2mg which contains 8
mgs of suboxone and 2mgs of naloxone which is a opiate antagonist. It's in the suboxone as a safety feature in case someone is crazy enough to try and inject the drug they would go into instant withdrawal. When taken the correct way very little gets into the blood. Did the Dr's office ask if you took benzo's as the combination of the two can cause death. That's what the literature claims. I asked my dr about this claim and she said only if you have no tolerance to benzo's otherwise less than 2mg of xanax is safe or 10mg Valium twice daily. So find out if this dr allows benzo's. Don't volunteer any info. Do you take a benzo every day? You need at least 16mg of suboxone to take away the cravings. You may have mild headaches and mild nausea for the first week until the body adjusts to the drug. I going on six months and every day has been like the old days.
Good Luck--Noah