Aa
Tramadol to help withdrawals?
Daughter is on day 3 of detox. Still in a lot of pain. She does have a prescription for tramadol so yesterday we did give her one every 8 hours. She is determined to go to work today...wants one Tramadol to get her thru. should we give it to her?
Tramadol from what others says on here is addictive as well. And I have heard hard to come off of. Its your call. But that could be trading one addiction for another.
I suppose you may be right. We are kind of at a loss until her doctor is back in his office tomorrow. Daughter says he put her on the tramadal because she told him she was addicted to percocets.. It's horrible to watch this but its almost like being blind.
Your daughter is on shaky ground hun. I hope that her doctor suggests counseling, outpatient treatment or better yet inpatient treatment. The drugs are the end result of what is going on with her and she needs to get to the core of the issues and learn skills to STAY clean. Putting down the drugs is rarely enough.
I continue to pray for you all. Please keep posting when you have questions.
I continue to pray for you all. Please keep posting when you have questions.
Thank you so much. I know she's on shaky ground and it scares the hell out of me. Deep down inside of me, I have this sick feeling..maybe mothers intuition, that things are going to get much, much worse.
we just got off the phone with our local crisis center and they did speak with her about detox. She does not want to go because they told her they would wean her off with more drugs that she would also have to wean off of. So it's looking like she's choosing cold turkey. We have an appointment with our family practice at 2:45 today, so most likely they will give her some colonodine? and more advice. At least a note so she can stay out of work. (Her employers think she has the flu, and seriously are not very compassionate)
This is just insane to be sitting here three days in a row while my kid screams cries and moans and there is nothing I can do! God, I pray she never ever goes back to this evil drug.
Thanks again for all of your wonderful support!
Try to get a note from her doc tomorrow for her work. They don't need to know whats wrong with her, just that she is sick.
Hi sarah,
when I got home after my own much needed therapy appointment, she came up to me and begged me and her to Dad to bring her to an inpatient program. Was I ever surprised. So we got on the phone and she spoke to different places..........ALL FULL!!! She was put on waiting lists. *Sigh*
We kept the appointment with our family practice who in turn referred us to an Urgent Care Clinic that deals with opiate withdrawal. She felt completely at home there. One of her friends from school who is 18 months clean works there and did her intake. This is an outpatient program. Friday she starts on a medically supervised strict suboxon program which includes therapy, meetings, random urine tests and weekly visits.
I'm not sure I feel this is the best route as Ive heard so much about Subs. But, she clearly was not able to tough out the withdrawel any more. She basically said if she couldnt get help she was going to get percs. Instead, since she starts the Sub program Friday, she went and got three subs from a friends to hold her over until Friday...The clinic approved this. Yep, you heard me right. They told me it was better than having her relapse on percs, go to heroin or even death.
Right now, I am so tired..no exhausted.
She got a note from the doctor for 2 weeks off from work but she will surely lose her job if she takes that much time off. I told her she needed to call her work today and figure something out, but I suspect that now she's on subs she will be able to work.
I cant tell you all how much I appreciate being able to talk to you. You are all a true life line!
when I got home after my own much needed therapy appointment, she came up to me and begged me and her to Dad to bring her to an inpatient program. Was I ever surprised. So we got on the phone and she spoke to different places..........ALL FULL!!! She was put on waiting lists. *Sigh*
We kept the appointment with our family practice who in turn referred us to an Urgent Care Clinic that deals with opiate withdrawal. She felt completely at home there. One of her friends from school who is 18 months clean works there and did her intake. This is an outpatient program. Friday she starts on a medically supervised strict suboxon program which includes therapy, meetings, random urine tests and weekly visits.
I'm not sure I feel this is the best route as Ive heard so much about Subs. But, she clearly was not able to tough out the withdrawel any more. She basically said if she couldnt get help she was going to get percs. Instead, since she starts the Sub program Friday, she went and got three subs from a friends to hold her over until Friday...The clinic approved this. Yep, you heard me right. They told me it was better than having her relapse on percs, go to heroin or even death.
Right now, I am so tired..no exhausted.
She got a note from the doctor for 2 weeks off from work but she will surely lose her job if she takes that much time off. I told her she needed to call her work today and figure something out, but I suspect that now she's on subs she will be able to work.
I cant tell you all how much I appreciate being able to talk to you. You are all a true life line!
My heart is breaking reading this. Three days into detox and they are putting her on Suboxone? Does she know how highly addictive that is? She was two days away from being almost completely done with the physical withdrawal. that is so sad to hear.
And to hear that since they gave her the okay she went on the streets to buy it and dosed herself. That is very scary behavior on her part and very unprofessional on the part of the clinic.
I wish all of you the best. I will pray for you.
And to hear that since they gave her the okay she went on the streets to buy it and dosed herself. That is very scary behavior on her part and very unprofessional on the part of the clinic.
I wish all of you the best. I will pray for you.
I agree, believe me. This has been unbelievable! I just feel like I wish she could have toughed it out. But, I guess its up to her. My husband fully supports her decision, but me? I'm being honest with her..I'm worried about this...
Suboxone isn't your daughters answer. It will be your daughters curse.
I see nothing in your posts that makes sense for a suboxone program. I hate for you and her to find this out the hard way, but sometimes it is what it takes to realize the truth. You mentioned something about replacing a drug for another. Well, replacing percocet with suboxone is like going from a walk to a all out sprint into the deep pits of addiction. If she thinks perks are hard to come off of, wait till she gets a taste of suboxone withdrawl. Please do some more research on subs and the horror stories. It's not too late to get away from that "clinic".
Good luck
I see nothing in your posts that makes sense for a suboxone program. I hate for you and her to find this out the hard way, but sometimes it is what it takes to realize the truth. You mentioned something about replacing a drug for another. Well, replacing percocet with suboxone is like going from a walk to a all out sprint into the deep pits of addiction. If she thinks perks are hard to come off of, wait till she gets a taste of suboxone withdrawl. Please do some more research on subs and the horror stories. It's not too late to get away from that "clinic".
Good luck
*I know, believe me I know. but she is 23 years old..all I ca do is talk to her at this point. She knows my concerns. Problem is, now she's on them (subs) she feels better and that window is gone.She now knows what wd's feel like and does not want to go there again.My hands are tied.
Suboxone is only perpetuating the issue. My brothers was on them for 6 months and eventually went back to Heroin. The issue is they are substituting one for another and not realizing the real issues underlying the drug abuse. The saddest part is that these clinics are giving these kids easy fixes with the Suboxone when the truth in the matter is, the withdrawal horrors are one of the strongest deterrents to pick up again. I am also seeking support from NA and putting the work in to find new ways to cope on life's terms. Have you suggested she reach out on here or that she read posts in reference to Suboxone? Does she show any interest in getting involved with NA? Keep nagging, keep suggesting, keep trying! You never know if this will be the time that she will hear you.
I certainly understand what everyone is saying, OP, your daughter has come this far, it would be a shame to stop now and go on Subs. But, like you said, she's an adult and will make her own decisions. You've done a great job trying to encourage her and lead her to the right path. Don't be hard on yourself.
I DO have to say, and I know that the sub debate is one that isn't going away too soon...that not all Sub clinics are bad, and for some people, Subs have allowed addicts to get clean. A good sub clinic will work very hard to treat the whole patient, not just hand out scripts. They will incorporate therapy into the program, they require a drug test at each visit, and they work from day ONE to start the process of planning for life after sub, including a taper right from the start.
You could argue it's trading one drug for another sure...but I would rather my loved one be taking Subs than heroin. People HAVE had success on Subs.
One of my good friends works in a sub clinic. We are both RNs. A few years ago, I helped out in the clinic part time. Lucky for the people going there...it was one like I described above. Therapy was required. Patients had to do a tox screen at EVERY visit, including a dip for the sub itself.
The doc was fabulous, spent a LOT of time with the patients, easing their worries about coming off the subs, and she started right from the beginning...working on the taper. She was big on making sure people were on the LOWEST necessary dose. She took people down VERY slowly, and was always willing to listen if a patient was going too fast for their own comofort level. If patients weren't compliant with their therapy, then they were reminded that they would be dropped from the program. The doc was compassionate and willing to allow one or tweo screw ups, but she always said she would rather have patients there that were willing to do the work, than to have someone take up a spot who just wanted the sub.
She told her patients from day one that subs are just a TOOL, one TOOL in the recovery process, and that subs aren't to be used as a way to avoid discomfort, she was very honest that there WOULD be some discomfort involved, both after the induction dose, and when coming off. Her goal was to MINIMIZE that discomfort so the pts could function on the highest level possible...and not have to have severe w/d's to the point where relapse was inevitible, just to avoid w/d's. She told them that some discomfort was necessary.
My point is...while subs aren't for everyone, it isn't always a BAD thing. I wish that all clinics were as good as the one I helped out in. I know that isn't the case. But, if a person manages to find a good clinic, then recovery with subs is entirely possible. Also, the "horror" stories are a result of people not being properly tapered off Sub. They are tapered too quickly, dosage dropped too rapidly. I can say that I saw a lot of patients succeed at coming off subs at that clinic. Just like any other med...there will always be the horror stories...it's important for people to allow themselves to have their own experience. Ironically too, some of the biggest anti-sub preachers are people who have NO experience with it, either personally, or exposure to it from other people.
Again, I agree that the OP's daughter is taking a step backwards as far as she's come, but we cannot assume she is going to fail. I would be happier if the OP told us they were finding a better clinic, because any clinic that "okays" a patient buying sub off the street?? Awful.
Anyways, I'll step off my soapbox. Don't get me wrong, I totally get and respect the differing opinions about sub, and sadly, the reason there ARE the horror stories out there is because too many crappy docs get into the sub business. That's of course because it is highly lucrative. The docs just see dollar signs. That doesn't make for a good sub doctor. I just wanted to share my experience with subs. Too bad not all clinics are like that.
OP..Praying for your daughter. Truth is, some people just CAN'T withstand the w/d's. This has been evident with her from the beginning. She has REALLY struggled with it. If she has decided on this, and you can't change her mind, the best thing you can do (besides looking for a better clinic)...is to just continue to support her and make SURE she starts right away in therapy, setting up aftercare, going to meetings...etc. The harder she works at it, the better chance she'll have. If she just thinks she's going to take the Sub and go back to her life without addressing all of the issues behind addiction, then yes, she WILL fail.
Thanks all, for listening. :0)
I DO have to say, and I know that the sub debate is one that isn't going away too soon...that not all Sub clinics are bad, and for some people, Subs have allowed addicts to get clean. A good sub clinic will work very hard to treat the whole patient, not just hand out scripts. They will incorporate therapy into the program, they require a drug test at each visit, and they work from day ONE to start the process of planning for life after sub, including a taper right from the start.
You could argue it's trading one drug for another sure...but I would rather my loved one be taking Subs than heroin. People HAVE had success on Subs.
One of my good friends works in a sub clinic. We are both RNs. A few years ago, I helped out in the clinic part time. Lucky for the people going there...it was one like I described above. Therapy was required. Patients had to do a tox screen at EVERY visit, including a dip for the sub itself.
The doc was fabulous, spent a LOT of time with the patients, easing their worries about coming off the subs, and she started right from the beginning...working on the taper. She was big on making sure people were on the LOWEST necessary dose. She took people down VERY slowly, and was always willing to listen if a patient was going too fast for their own comofort level. If patients weren't compliant with their therapy, then they were reminded that they would be dropped from the program. The doc was compassionate and willing to allow one or tweo screw ups, but she always said she would rather have patients there that were willing to do the work, than to have someone take up a spot who just wanted the sub.
She told her patients from day one that subs are just a TOOL, one TOOL in the recovery process, and that subs aren't to be used as a way to avoid discomfort, she was very honest that there WOULD be some discomfort involved, both after the induction dose, and when coming off. Her goal was to MINIMIZE that discomfort so the pts could function on the highest level possible...and not have to have severe w/d's to the point where relapse was inevitible, just to avoid w/d's. She told them that some discomfort was necessary.
My point is...while subs aren't for everyone, it isn't always a BAD thing. I wish that all clinics were as good as the one I helped out in. I know that isn't the case. But, if a person manages to find a good clinic, then recovery with subs is entirely possible. Also, the "horror" stories are a result of people not being properly tapered off Sub. They are tapered too quickly, dosage dropped too rapidly. I can say that I saw a lot of patients succeed at coming off subs at that clinic. Just like any other med...there will always be the horror stories...it's important for people to allow themselves to have their own experience. Ironically too, some of the biggest anti-sub preachers are people who have NO experience with it, either personally, or exposure to it from other people.
Again, I agree that the OP's daughter is taking a step backwards as far as she's come, but we cannot assume she is going to fail. I would be happier if the OP told us they were finding a better clinic, because any clinic that "okays" a patient buying sub off the street?? Awful.
Anyways, I'll step off my soapbox. Don't get me wrong, I totally get and respect the differing opinions about sub, and sadly, the reason there ARE the horror stories out there is because too many crappy docs get into the sub business. That's of course because it is highly lucrative. The docs just see dollar signs. That doesn't make for a good sub doctor. I just wanted to share my experience with subs. Too bad not all clinics are like that.
OP..Praying for your daughter. Truth is, some people just CAN'T withstand the w/d's. This has been evident with her from the beginning. She has REALLY struggled with it. If she has decided on this, and you can't change her mind, the best thing you can do (besides looking for a better clinic)...is to just continue to support her and make SURE she starts right away in therapy, setting up aftercare, going to meetings...etc. The harder she works at it, the better chance she'll have. If she just thinks she's going to take the Sub and go back to her life without addressing all of the issues behind addiction, then yes, she WILL fail.
Thanks all, for listening. :0)
COMMUNITY LEADER
Be careful on how much you do for your daughter right now. Let her take the bull by the horns. This has to be her recovery. I know it is hard to not want to take care of her but she is an adult, an addict and only she can change this up.
You're so wise sarah! What a great point! Her daughter is an adult, and the more control she has over her decisions and actions, the better. Along with addiction comes enabling. It's very hard for people to distinguish between enabling and "helping".
i normally dont post much but i hac to say something every1 post horror stories but u dont hear about the good 1s im on sub my dr is a recovering addict and he is there to help fellow addicts he requires group therepy and drug screens i coulda very well been on my way to jail or death til i found my dr. subs r not evil i live a clean life now i even quit smoking weed which i never thought i would do im also about to attend my first n/a meeting i never wanted to go now i do altho subs r opiates. my thought process is dif then on pills . if this is offensive to any1 im sorry but people need to post some positives about sub. if u hav a good dr its a great thing-thank u nurse girl
So great to hear your positive story about Sub! Sounds like you are one of the lucky ones who found a good doctor, that makes such a big difference!
People, by nature, are more inclined to share negative stories than positive ones. That's why you tend to see more of the horror stories, than the success stories.
If the clinics were made to do things RIGHT, like the one I worked in, and the one you go to, I think you'd find a lot more success stories. Some of the negative experiences also come from people trying to manage Sub themselves, which of course is never a good idea and rarely ends well.
I definitely don't want to hijack the OPs thread with this discussion, but I think it was important for her to hear some of the positives about Sub too. I just hope her daughter can find a better clinic.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
People, by nature, are more inclined to share negative stories than positive ones. That's why you tend to see more of the horror stories, than the success stories.
If the clinics were made to do things RIGHT, like the one I worked in, and the one you go to, I think you'd find a lot more success stories. Some of the negative experiences also come from people trying to manage Sub themselves, which of course is never a good idea and rarely ends well.
I definitely don't want to hijack the OPs thread with this discussion, but I think it was important for her to hear some of the positives about Sub too. I just hope her daughter can find a better clinic.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
I can't post anything positive about Subs cause I would be lying if I did so. It's my own personal conviction to share my experience with them. I was on them for two years. Heroin, Methadone and any opiate I could get my hands on before that. If suboxone helps you get your life together then I say grats. But, if someone uses suboxone to avoid withdrawl then I think it's a disaster waiting to happen. For me, I never thought I was "clean" if I had to depend on a sub ever morning to go about my day. It is considered using to me and made my daily existence seem fake. I never realized how Subs clouded my judgement, emotions and the real me till I got off them. I guess whatever works I suppose. If someone want to take subs the rest of their life and is truely happy about that decision, then kudos to them. It's nice to wake up and not have to ingest a substance to feel "normal" No fear or worry on how much supply I have and doctor appoinments etc.
i agree i dont call myself clean but i havent ABUSED a drug in 3 months and ur not supposed to take it for the rest of ur life im starting to taper but at my own pace so idont relaspse. every1 dsnt get clean the same way as you can see i just dont think people should judge ur path. op i hope ur daughter gets another dr and starts meetings i hope she recovers how ever she does it
ps op i had a bad dr and went back to pills for 2 months til i found my new dr the dr really makes a diff
The clinic that she will be attending is an intensive outpatient program. She will be in therapy, as well as group meetings. In addition, she will be monitored by doctors every week and her urine will be tested as well. It's a very strict program that feels recovery isn't just taking an alternate pill. They will also help and monitor the weaning process. I did speak with them today.
I still have my reservations and concerns about this drug BUT, if this is the route she chooses and she is like I said in an intensive outpatient program...I have no choice but to support her right now. This is the first time that she admitted to us how long and how much she was taking among other things.She feels a sense of hope she said and not so alone. She's really looking forward to this especially the therapy.
I feel a bit better after to speaking to them and reading the literature....lots of it that they sent home with her.
I still have my reservations and concerns about this drug BUT, if this is the route she chooses and she is like I said in an intensive outpatient program...I have no choice but to support her right now. This is the first time that she admitted to us how long and how much she was taking among other things.She feels a sense of hope she said and not so alone. She's really looking forward to this especially the therapy.
I feel a bit better after to speaking to them and reading the literature....lots of it that they sent home with her.
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