Is sobriety worth the suffering?

[vaughn22]

My question is sobriety so important that you should suffer flat on your back sick as a dog (or pacing the floor). even if life is calling you to participate? I felt so guilty about being on methadone even with chronic pain because I am a Christian and pastors have told me that pharmacia in the Greek means drug use, putting me under condemnation. Now I have a dog with chronic pain and I will force a pain pill down his throat if need be because without it he suffers. If I do that for him...don't you think God would also heal, even with a prescription drug? Life is short. Should we suffer when there is an alternative? vaughn22

[vaughn22]

Well, thanks for asking...I feel good right now....but my Klonopin stopped working. I have been having to take 1/2 a benedryl to kick it in....funny, the one I take at night works...the other do keep seizures away though no relief from anxiety. I had to fast this morning for blood work, but I got it done. An important one, because I am dropping pounds quickly. Being such a small person gave me an inferiority complex when I was young. I am finding many subconscious triggers to why I became an opiate addict....I don't like to think this, but after detoxing 8x....it could be I legitimately need it? A slow detox has never worked for me before, but progress is being made. Can anyone tell me what meds I would need to taper slowly..all I know is clonidine and quinine water for restless leg syndrome. Thanks to all of you for your help without the condemnation.

[debsgotcurves]

Hi Vaughn, just want to echo much of what others have said. I am glad you found this website. You see how amazing the people here are. I had my first ulcer at 12 also. I feel the same way Connie(clean_in_ks) does, I just want to hug you. Please stay here and post and get the love and support that you not only deserve, but also seem to be in desperate need of.  I know my God well. I only came to really know him in sobriety.  We all have to be educated and then make the right choice for ourselves when it comes to pain and pain medications. This is the right place to get both the information you need, and the support to do whatever is RIGHT for YOUR life.  I wish you love and all of Gods love and grace!!

[needhelp144]

If you're an addict then getting clean and staying clean is definitely worth it.

[SmilingBright]

I'm
So glad u found this forum.  These people are truly amazing.  I am also a christian and honestly can't believe your pastor would make u feel condemed.  You have gotten a lot of wonderful advice from above.  All I wanted to say was there is No condemnation in Christ!!!!  

Also slow and steady taper from
Methadone is best.  If u decide to get off of it.  I have tapered bf all the way down to 1.25 mg and had very little wds.  Unfortunatly I'm doing it again.  So I'm currently at 5 mg tapering.  You can do all things through Christ who gives you strength!!  

May God bless you Vaughn!!!!  

Chris

[vicki595]

Sobriety is worth everything and you don't have to suffer to get there. Start tapering very slowly; that's the trick. It will take a while but it's gentle and very doable.   You've been taking pills for a long time so you can't expect to get passed this in a few days...be patient with yourself and good luck!

[weaver71]

I'm glad you're taking time to think about the addiction part of your situation. I truly felt like I could never feel good. The methadone changed my whole world. I know that emotional pain, regrets, resentments caused me physical pain. Honestly, I'm having a pretty hard time physically still. I'm still afraid I won't be able go do what a have to for my family. Since  I quit methadone, I am more in the moment,  motivation is slowly returning, I even felt enthusiastic. My heart is more open, for better and worse. I have to rest a lot, but my pain is more manageable, physical, mental, and emotional pain. I didn't believe I would ever heal, but I was miserable on methadone. With nothing really to lose, I asked for help. That's why I asked if you are okay with how things are. I really feel for you, and you have received great insite above. Again, I'm glad you are considering this further, you still have time to be that person you want to be. I believe apathy is a long-term methadone side-effect. Every methadone addict I've ever known became apathetic. I felt like I was trapped and wasn't sure it COULD be better. I'm not sure if my experience relates, but I know the feeling of being hopeless. It is only a feeling, there is always hope, whether you feel it or not.

Definitely take the advice above. Slow deliberate taper is critical with methadone. Amino acids, vitamins, minerals, and lots of fiber. Start giving your body what it needs to fight pain and balance emotions. Try new forms of physical therapy, find a therapy you like and go, a lot. I think daily therapy would help after detox. If you form a plan and build a personal growth program, I think it would help with anxiety. I do think you would feel better off methadone. It really effected my thinking and squashed my potential, so I'm a little biased. It does seem to be a matter of time before a methadone "patient" feels like a zombie, some take longer than others.

You've made progress already, you're asking for help, and are listening. Seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened. Keep the faith.

[1sorryperson]

Having been sexually assulted in the past is very common for us here on mh.  Good to see you still posting.  Keep talking, we are listening but don't always reply to each comment.  You are not alone!  Don't dwell on your past (triggers, i have many), we can't change it, but we can change the future.   check out this website,  http://www.hbo.com/addiction/thefilm/supplemental/625_stimulant_addiction.html  
learn about cognitive behavior therapy where you can on the web, don't let your past control today and tomorrow.   What is your usage today?  

[VICourageous]

How is it going? How are you feeling??

[vaughn22]

I was re-reading your post, and came to the part about in your way of thinking, you were abusing your meds because you not only used them for pain but to better, stronger, and less anxious. Why is this B.S.? Unless you were taking more than prescribed for that reason. When my broken big toe and worn out knees stop hurting and I am able and willing to take my dog to do his business, am I not better, and stronger? Well, my dog just said its time to go...and I am ready. I took my meds. You guys have made me realize that its a conundrum that requires more thought on my part. Like one person asked if maybe I was lying to myself and my Dr. subconsciously? If its not conscious then indeed I could be and the pain medicine could be causing me pain (hyperanalgesia?).....but after I mentioned the rapes, I did post that yes, I am probably more hurt emotionally than physically, although no one wants to be a 98lb.weakling....which at 113lbs...is not far off.

[VICourageous]

Hi. hey I got my Methadone prescribed from my Dr. It started out in the late 90s with the other opiates. I just used more excuses to get the dones. I thought I could take less. Ha! What a joke that was. I finally had my surgery and knew someday I would be cut off. That is why I got myself down to 30mg. Then I was doing the same bad behavior of buying more. It just had to stop!!! I sure do wish you the best. Get your self down and just do it. You will feel much better in the long run. And as you know it is a long run to get here.
Bless

[vaughn22]

Thanks Sorry..BTW...who are you referring to as one sorry person? Not you for sure. Anyway...thank you for the explanation. vaughn22

[1sorryperson]

pm stands for 'private message'    if you click on someones name, or go to their profile page the is a"message" option, click it to be directed.   I'll send you a pm, click your name, click 'inbox' to find it.

[vaughn22]

what does PM stand for?

[vaughn22]

Thank you so much Connie...I posted this question this morning, and already so many replies and so much love and caring. Its kinda late for me as on methadone (if anyone remembers) I wake up every day at 5:00 a.m. exactly. Your post really affected me. I just wanted to say thank you before I log off for the night because you put so much into what you wrote. I am going to reply to all these probably the next few days. Thanks again for being so kind .And no, I never thought you were being too direct.
   Yes, I am off the clinic and a private Dr. is giving me 70 mg. a day. Living in California is way different than Houston where I grew up. There you would never get a private dr. to prescribe you methadone. I am extremely grateful for her. Thanks again Connie (for all the hugs and Blessings from afar.) Yes going off 140 mg. Ct was something I never want to repeat; my ex-wife went CT off 240 mg. in Oregon just last year. She is fine now. She switched to methamphetamine and it got her off methadone. But she's been on the streets for almost 8 years. I can't really blame her dealing with sleeping outdoors is sub zero temps...

[kyle505]

There's a big difference between having a legit pain issue and abusing/being addicted to med. sobriety is precious. It IS life.

[vaughn22]

No I am not O.K. with it....but is anyone truly O.K. with impending death? I mean at age 54..I want to live, but life is cruel (one thing my father told me that wasn't bad advice) and we do have to decide between quality and quantity of it sometimes. But I am not O.K. without it either. Is dying 9x going to be better than 8? I obviously can't live without it either. Its a quagmire that has me almost ready to off myself. The main reason I am not O.K with it is if I had never been an addict I probably would have succeeded in life, with a house, wife, and children. That would be my deepest desire (that plus physical health), and no, I am not living it probably because I put myself through college "hanging paper"; or using drugs from freshman to graduation. vaughn22 Thanks weaver

[weaver71]

I was a teacher of adult Sunday School. I'm fairly versed in the teaching of Jesus and the epistles of the early church. If your conscious was clear, you would not concern yourself with the opinions of others. If Jesus bases his teachings on his peers, we wouldn't have heard of him. I remember my parents' friends trying to have sex with me, I was raped by an underage girl. I never realized it until I got sober. My wife was raped and they used a knife to finish the job. I think they intended to kill her. I've saw my first homocide at age 3, a 12 GUAGE to the chest. I know pain, trust me, lots of examples to chose from. Point is, I thought I was taking pills for physical pain only. Now I realize that's not the case. My physical pain is not nearly as bad, now that the spiritual pain is being dealt with. If you are using meds for specific reasons and nothing more, I don't see a problem. If you are judging yourself, then a second look seems appropriate. God loves you no matter what, loving yourself is a whole other story. What is your deepest desire, are you living that? Events in life come and go, how we respond is our only responsibility. Not thinking of your peers' opinion, what do you think about your drug use? Are you okay with it, that's the important thing?

[weaver71]

So many memories flood my heart. I remember my parents friends trying to have sex with me. I didn't realize I was raped by an underage girl, until I was got sober a little while. My wife was raped and they used a knife to finish the job. I think they intended on killing her.  Trust me I know pain. I saw my first homocide at close rang at about 3 yrs old, a 12 GUAGE T

[VICourageous]

Oh Boy Vaughn22 I should be talking to you! Ha! I will say it has not been a walk in the park. Also the sleep did take some time too. 2 years you say. Hum! That is what the Dr told me. About a year to two to balance back . Oh Boy!  I am just beginning my walk in 10 months and I feel fine except the ups & downs on the no motivation thing. In my 7-8 month was the yo-yo thing. Thank Lord that has passed. That had to be the worse. It does get to be very frustrating at times because I want it all now! I sure do not ever want to go through this again. I do not have the time. Need to really start living the right way again. Thanks for your reply. You just helped me out a lot. I was just taking about the "Time" issue with the Hub.Oh well I will be getting out more when it finally gets hot up here in N Idaho. Thanks Again!
Bless

[clean_in_ks]

Welcome to the forum Vaughn....I have a dear family member with that name and "she" spells it the very same way...yep, a "she"...and her sister lives right there in Santa Rosa where you are!!  Small world~

I've been reading all your posts.  Even your first one on the older thread about mixing methadone and klonopin.  Your comments have really caused a lot of feelings to "rise up" in me.  I've been thinking ALL day how I should repond to you.  First off, your "pastors that put you under condemnation" HUGELY irritate me.  They obviously DON'T know Scripture...like Romans 8:1...."So now there is NO condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus".  Finding a new pastor and maybe even a church that has Celebrate Recovery groups that meet there might insure that the staff at that particular church isn't totally IGNORANT about addiction.  Just because they are pastors doesn't mean they "speak for God" and they are human and can be misdirected or wrong, too.  Regardless of our chosen profession, we are ALL human and are fallible.

Since you were able to find a new private dr. to help with your methadone vs. a clinic...maybe you can find a new church where you won't be "guilted" or "misunderstood" and fed lies about condemnation.  Believe me, there are churches out there with wonderful, understanding people.  Many have addiction recovery groups that are available to addicts and are full of amazing people in recovery.

And your father being a psychiatrist and telling you "it's no big deal" when you are sexually abused as a little boy???  My heart is just breaking for you.  You have been fed A LOT of lies.....and it makes me want to hug you.

You mentioned in your first post that you felt like methadone was more addicting than heroin and 10x worse to w/draw from.  I think you said you had cold turkeyed off methadone 8x and every time it was as bad as dying.  And the last time you jumped off CT at 140 mg.  ABSOLUTELY it will be pure "h*ll" going cold turkey!  Especially at 140 mg dose!
I think you said you were "off clinic" now and with a private dr. that has you on 70 mg.  If you decide you want to get off methadone after this upcoming surgery you are having.....please learn about the VERY slow and deliberate weaning process that is CRUCIAL in a methadone detox.  Some folks jump off at 35 mg or below (better to jump when you hit 10 mg or even single digits)....but 140 mg????  And even at your current dose of 70 mg....it's critical that you taper/wean....very slowly until you get down to much, much lower doses.  It is no wonder you have suffered and don't think you have another w/drawal in you. Same with the benzo...if you've been on it 30 yrs.....VERY slow and methodical is the only safe way there, too.  Sounds like you got on the klonopin about 5 yrs after your last abuse.

We have SO many recovering people on this forum who have gotten off the dones.  You CAN too.....if you want to.  It just cannot be done the way you have attempted it in the past.  I can't believe no one has advised you not to jump off CT at such a high dose.  NO wonder, Vaughn!!

I know I'm running my mouth, but reading all your posts has generated so many feelings in me tonight.  When I read about your sexual abuse as a young boy....and then SO many of your health problems began at about age 12, too.  The ulcers, the seizures, PSTD....good golly man!  It would truly bless your socks off to get weekly counseling....I know you said you had a wonderful counselor...but only get to spend a "few minutes every few months".  You need to be able to frequently share, talk, heal, cry, whatever.....your father telling you what he did made you think your feelings were NOT valid.  THEY ARE!!  Nobody has the right to harm you....not even your father or your pastors or your doctors.  You are SO worthy....you are SO loved....and  maybe the reason you can't quit thinkin about the rapes is cause it's time to get some help validating your feelings.  The methadone is just numbing over all this and numbing both your emotional AND physical pain.  

I hope you don't think I'm being too direct....it just burns my buns when I hear about someone that has been talked to like you have from supposed
"helping" people.  I can tell you...you can't condemn all churches or pastors cause you have had lies spewed to you by pastors.  It's just sad to me that this had to happen to you.  Remember, you are loved.....and your are under NO condemnation.

PM me if you want.... I'm a chronic pain person as well, but taking opiates for my pain was gonna kill me.  I am learning to find other ways to deal with my pain....and it's true...the pain once off narcotics truly is less.   Please let us know how you are doing.  We're here to help, encourage & support you.
Blessings and abundant hugs to you from afar~
Connie

[vaughn22]

Thanks Courageous and congrats.....yes, I do know to taper off...I have always had better luck with cold turkey with methadone though.....why delay the suffering? But last time I went totally psychotic, that is when my Dr. said enough! She then stabilized me on 60mg ( I was going cold off 140 mg.) and I was going 95 mph to my appointment. The Red Sea was parting in front of me the whole 17 mile drive. But almost every time I quit cold turkey I go psychotic and can't sleep for one whole month, then 2 years to feel anything even remotely good again, Just lethargy, and depression. Did you ever feel condemnation from teachers beating their sheep? Anyway..thanks again for the support. Vaughn22

[Pjtwenty]

God would not want you to suffer. Any pastor, priest or whatever that would say you are damned for takin meds that are needed......well I'll just say I wouldn't get along with them.
Only you know if you are abusing the drugs. Even if taking them as prescribed you could still be abusing them if you are subconsciously lying to yourself and your doctor.
If you are truly in pain and I think you are, take the meds!

[VICourageous]

I just wanted to chime in and give you some support. There are many, many reason why we can become addicted to a drug. Many emotional reason come into mind. I to have had my bad issues in the past. I just wanted to hit on two things here. One is that I have always been a Christian and talked to my God. I cried for help for help for many years while I was on my Methadone and a Klons at night. The dumb part was adding Adderral to the Dones for a big Buzz to get working on things. Like Compulsive Behavior. I did get down to 30mgs and jumped the Boat from all 3. I will say that I could just feel the presents of God more then ever. It was and has been the best experience in my 57 years on earth.Now this is just my Experience Only. Also I know that it is a fact that the older we get the harder these detoxes get. It seems that it takes awhile to bounce back more then when we were younger. So I do wish you the best on whatever decision you make. Oh and yes if you do want off the Benzo make sure you do taper it down slow and easy. OK
Bless

[vaughn22]

Thank You Already... Yes, I am probably in as much emotional pain as I am physical pain. I have a wonderful counselor, but being on disability, she has only a few minutes for me every few months. I want you to know that in your post, you have shown me more real love and empathy than any of my family members ever have. I really appreciate that you took the time and energy to write that post. Thank you again. I don't know what to do except to keep on keeping on. Detoxing after 8x again. I don't know if I can do it. Well, I know I can do anything I put my mind to, but I am now 54 and will my body be able to take it again? Anyway..one day at a time right now...