What are the ramifications of addiction (physically)

[Tara]

Okay, tell me what are the ramifications of being semi dru addicted?  I've been reading all these messages and need to hear it.....what happens physically....I know slow heart rate...possible death...but what else? hair loss???weight gain???what.  I guess I want to be convinced what I am doing is truly a deteriorating thing...I like the feeling I get when I take a vicodin. Is that soooo bad?

[Dee]

Hello everyone..tomorrow I will start to lower my dose of oxycontin..I have been doing 200-240 mg a day for about a year.
(chewing them)I do them in the morning, afternoon, and then around dinner time..tomorrow I will cut down to 40 mg..20 mg in the morning and 20 in the afternoon..how bad do you think the withdrawals will be?? I'm thinking that as long as I have something in my body it will not be to bad..is this wishfull thinking on my part???

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

I think that you are cutting down your dosage way to quick. If your body is use to 200mg's a day then I don't think that a 20mg dose will do anything. Someone once told me that you should cut your dose by 10mg a day (this may even be to much for you). It is usually a good idea to stay at a same dose for a few days also. For example; Take 180mg a day for three days then drop it to 160mg a day for another three days, and so on. This may not be the quickest way to detox but it will certainly help with the withdrawl symtoms that you most deffinetly will experieance. I too chew my oxy's so I know how you feel. Is this the first time you are trying to come off of oxycotin? GOOD LUCK...we are here for you if you need to talk.....there are alot of people on this site who have helped me in the past.

ANOTHER QUESTION.......
I here so many people talk about doing so many oxy's a day. I wonder why no one ever mentions the cost of this addiction. I mean, I think an oxy abuser spends more on drugs each day then say a coke addict.

Just for the record, I went back on them for the past three weeks after staying clean for a month. I am so sick of myself it's not even funny. The good news is that I have another chance. I also believe that I am quitting for the wrong reasons. I mainly quit because of the cost of keeping two people (my girlfriend) and I high after my script runs out. On the other hand, when I become "straight" I start to realize what a haze oxycotin puts over your life. It's almost as if everything is fake. I'll talk more later so I can post this message...
CHAD "the guy from Philly who didn't listen to you guys about refilling those scripts"

[Jon in Philly]

How is your search for IT training going?  Have you found any programs in the area?  

Take care

[to Vicodin Gurll]

Christ, listen to Chad please.  What makes you think you can cut your dosage by so much so fast?  You may as well go cold turkey cause you sure will be in serious withdrawal if you do it your way.  Better to go down by about 10% PER WEEK, to give your body time to adjust.  At your level, it will be hard and toward the end you should find a doc or program doing outpatient buprenorphine detox to get you off altogether.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I have a niece who is a chronic painer and has been on several types of opiates(narcotics) for eight years now. Every time I see her she looks worse than the time before. She's gained a lot of weight and looks puffy and pale.  She also has a problem with equalibrium and recently fell at a store and had to be hospitalized.  I can't say that she is happy with life and is kind of in the sidelines as far as the family goes. I wouldn't wish this type of existance on anybody.  She also has no hope of having children at this point due to the meds.

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

I found a good school for IT training but when it all came down to it I couldn't afford it. Isn't life great? Yet another set back.....Chad

[To Brighty and everyone]

Well I used alcohol and pain meds so I can't really give you an exact idea of what happens with just the pain meds. From what I hear it varies. Persoanlly, I Lost weight (and I was already underweight) because the pills killed my appetite and I wouldn't eat when I was drinking because it "got in the way", took more to get me drunk that sort of thing. No hair loss or anything along those lines. I slept A Lot on the pills but they weren't my d.o.c. so I didn't take them as much as other people on here may have. Tolerance was a major bummer. After a while it's like you can't even get high anymore unless you take a lot of pills. I was (am) only at 5 pills at a time so it takes me about10-15 or so pills a day if I try and stretch it out. It's pretty miserable though, the whole thing. I get really sick (even if I eat), I sleep a lot which upsets me cause I feel like I'm wasting my high if I manage to get one, chronic use is, obviously, bad for your health. It just plain sucks. I wish I could go back, I'd give anything.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I drank and took Lortab, Vicoden and the generic hydrocodone for several years.  Now I have chronic liver disease due to the Tylenol and alcohol.  Chronic fatigue and generally feeling ill is but one symptom.  Watch for bruising, swollen ankles and feet, and spider nivea. Excessive bleeding is another problem. Plus there is a problem with fighting infections in the body. The flu or a simple cold can really debilitate you.  

Life with liver disease is such fun! You never know what will happen next. The Tylenol and alcohol combo is just the right way to get started on the fun trip of liver disease.

[vickyvortex]

Well, lets see...Pretend you have the worst flu ever.  Now, along with the flu, your eyes are puffy, you are sick to your stomach, your hands physically shake and the great part is nothing will take it away.  And, unlike the flu, it doesn't go away in three days.  Anyone who tells you it can be kicked is wrong.  The physically gross feeling is bad enough, but mentally you know how much better it would be if you could just take a vicodin.  Once you start your first physical withdrawal you will kind of think it might be kind of exciting...something different.  It is the worst kind of slavery.  You will find yourself going to the scuzziest doctor just to get them. Have fun!!!!

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

Personally I feel that there is nothing wrong with taking something you enjoy if you can control it. The problem is that I don't know anyone who can "control" using pain meds. Everything is good for a couple of weeks then it's all down hill from there. As far as the ramifications of using....MANY, depending on how addicted you are. The only way to find out is by quitting. Everyone is different, but you can probably expect cold sweats, shaking, the runs and tons of ireatability.

[Tara]

what I meant by ramifications were - what happens with long term use of it?

thanks.

[Ken to Chad]

Hey buddy, hows it going? Dont feel bad I am out there too. I keep quiting, but I keep going back too. And like they say , it get worse every time. I told myself , this time I will control it, HA! There is no controling it. It controls me. I have not been taking the oxys, but still, it will only be a matter of time before I cant get anything else. I am thing about going into an inpatient detox program. I hope you are doing better than I am, keep in touch buddy, its nice to see you posting again.  Ken

[Mark]

Tara, I was addicted the Vicodin ES. for about 31/2 yrs....and at the end of my using I was up to 8-10 a day....not getting high anymore. Just to maintain the tolerence.It somewere I can't go back to.Looking at the clock just to see how long its been since  I took my last pill. Having withdrawls....anticpating withdrawls...Now Ive been clean for 108 days now.But The worst part is this depression . I hate it. Cant sleep.....cant consentrate...make bad judgements It has cause me to lose work for 2 months....Lost probably thousands of $ I  was put into detox back in July. The Dr. says the more you use the more you lose.endorphins and seritonin...so these are just a few of the ramifications. This opiate use has almost cost me my life.......thanks to my God he saved me from killing myself.

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

What do I say? For some unknown reason I satarted using again. I was only doing around 40 to 60mg's of oxy a day. That's if you don't count the 40 perks that I ate when I first got my script. The perks do absoutly nothing for me. Remember I use for pleasure not pain. I havent done an Oxy scince Sunday night around 8pm. I was fine all day yesterday untill last night. I took a xanax when it was time for bed and just couldn't sleep. So I took another one around 2am to try to force myself to sleep. I felt like I wanted to tear my legs off and I had the most intence back pain I can remember. So, I took an oxy IR and then passed out. I feel bad about having to take that oxy but considering that it was only 5mg's maybe it didn't do too much damage. I know that although my dosage is fairly low, I have been doing it every day for three weeks. Sometimes we even did 80-100 mg's in one day but that was rare. My girlfriend is home with me today and we are tottaly freaked out! I mean we are so use to using that we don't have a clue what the hell to do. This has always been my biggest problem. You guys know that I don't work so keeping busy is kind of tuff.

I can tell you this. My mind is so sick of the whole thing. I hate chasing the pills the scripts, everything! Not to mention when my doctor writes my scripts I can't even fill them till the pharmacy says it's OK. Thats a whole other story. What do I do now? QUIT! I have no other choice. I am so sick of this addiction/recovery thing that I wan't to die. Thank god I am strong enough not to give up. It's just so fuckin' hard to deal with the fact that you can take a tiny pill and your whole world changes. Its almost as if I feel like I should stay high just to keep my sanity. Yet, I am also aware that I know that I am going insane by using. OK enough ranting....Guess I'll go see who the hell the president is suppose to be today...Talk soon, Chad

[j.]

To Chad, I am so glad I am not the only one with leg cramps, along with everything else from withdrawal.  I actually ride a stupid exercise bike for about an hour.  The increased blood flow relieves the cramping, although only for a few minutes.  I can totally relate to the pharmacy thing...It's humiliating to feel judged by these people who don't know what you are going through. If I could change one thing about myself, I would relive everything a million times to have never having taken vicodin.  I obsess constantly over how many I have, how long they will last, what If my doctor cuts me off, would I be better off if he did cut me off, etc.  After 10 years of regular overuse, I now have cut down to four or five ES's a day.  I no longer get a buzz, its only to keep the withdrawal away.  I hope we both have good luck.

[to dee]

dee, not to be mean that plan is so unrealistic.the hell i go thru withdrawing from 80 mgs is horrific. i have never met anyone who could do this on their own. come to this sight, tom is very on the ball with this though not a MD.forget that plan it's unrealistic.

[Dee]

hi thanks for the concern, I thought I had to cut down to that much so I wouldn't run out..an adjustment on my part has it at 120mg a day from 200-240 that's not as bad as down to 40mg a day..I think that I will be able to handle 120mg a day...

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I posted a few days ago about my niece being on narcotics for eight years and how it has affected her life.  Last night my brother called to cancel our annual Thanksgiving get together.
My niece is now in the hospital in bad shape.  On Tuesday her doctors informed her that they were no longer giving her anymore narcotics for pain and were going to detox her.  She tried to commit suicide by massive overdose.  I'm bitter about how the doctors handled this whole thing, yet I believe that this might be the best thing for her.
I think that telling her that she would not have any more narcotics triggered the suicide attempt.  I think that most of us here can relate to how devastated she must have felt!  Just one more of the ramifications addiction you asked about.  And what about the effect the addict has on everyone in the family?

[Frankinscense]

Facts about MMT. MMT offers hope for people who cannot stop this addiction. Hope for people who cannot function w/out an opiates in their system.
        "Methadone Is A Medication, Not an Opiate Substitue"
An addict uses pills several times a day. Each time,the endorphin receptors are flooded by this drug (example oxycontin or percoset) The body views all opiate agonist as the same drug whether its codeine or oxycodone and causes a dramatic change in mood called the "HIGH". This lasts a short while 3-8 hours depending on the drug. Then comes withdrawal and cravings. These repeated highs of short acting opiates, swamping the endorphin receptors, drastically upset the fine tuned regulations that keep the brain in a normal state of equilibrium. Although it is true methadone, like all opiates, occupies the endorphin receptors,the nature of this interaction is completely different. There is, at an adequate dose, no methadone high,just a normal feeling of well being. There is with methadone no highs and lows that are typical of short acting opiates. This a disturbing feeling that is very uncomfortable,filled with withdrawal sickness and a general yucky feeling. Are you all with me. Methadone occupies the endorphin receptors  in a long-lasting stable way allowing a normalised feeling of being well. Methadone is a medication which occupies the endorphin receptors and stabilises the disrupted endorphins. Methadone is an endorphin substitute, not an opiate substitute.
this is a summary with direct quotes from an article written in Methadone Advocates Group of Txnama. "Keeping Score With Drug Srategies" Written by a medical Scientist...
Dan...

[to Vicodin Gurll]

No, I won't respond and you can't make me!!

[Frankinscense]

All drug addictions cause immature coping mechanisms!

[tom to Brian]

So good to hear from you! I know what you mean about discovering your spiritual self as a result of this experience of addiction, relapse and recovery. If you haven't already come across it, you might find of interest a chapter from the book, "Further Along the Road Less Traveled," by M. Scott Peck, MD, entitled Addiction: The Spiritual Disease. In it, Peck suggests that addicts, especially opiate addicts, are really seekers of spiritual transcendence who have, for various reasons, chosen, shall we say, an inherently problematic approach to personal enlightenment.
If you don't mind talking about it, what recovery technique are you using?
Again, so relieved to know you're back and back on the good path.

Welcome back, my good friend. You have been sorely missed and never far from our thoughts. Seeing your name on the forum tonight has really made my weekend. I could not have asked for better news!

[tom to Dan and "Make Me"]

first of all, the "no, you can't make me" post on Nov 19th was not from me. If I wanted to cheese Dan off, I'm confident I could do a better job of it, perhaps even offer him a multiple choice cheese-off response.

Dan,
I need no more convincing about methadone. I work for a software developer and have been putting in 12-hour days for the last few weeks and simply haven't had the opportunity to visit the clinic. I am going to go in with the story that I get all my pills on the black market because I simply can't risk destroying my safe, legal source of drugs (i.e., my family doc) before I know I've been accepted into the methadone program. I know you don't support this approuch, but for me it's the only way. I just hope they accept me under those conditions. I don't see why they wouldn't. This forum features a lot of posters who get all their oxy and vic on the street and off the internet. If they want me to find a doctor, get an exam and bring back some sort of certification, I'll do that, too. I just won't involve my family doc until I'm safely in the program.

[Frankinscense]

Sounds like a legit plan to me. You must remember when you first get on methadone stay clean from your Rx pain pills. They do not want to see you still using while on methadone. Believe me when you first start methadone you will not need them. Methadone will relieve all pain. You will get "ultimate" pain relief while finding your adequate dose. Do not chase a high on methadone. Find your dose and stop!
Dan