Aa
Dropped from DR need to know about w/d's
First a little history.
I was involved in an automobile accident 13 years ago this upcoming July. In it a suffered severe trauma to my spine. I missed being paralyzed by 1/4 an inch - I've had 2 back surgeries and still have a fractured T12 held together by scar tissue. The T12 creates disc issues b/c of its location. I currently have a herniated disc and a ruptured disc. My neck has 2 herniated discs as well - all due to poor posture from the T12 and pressure put upon the rest of my spine so I've been told. During numerous testing they also found an inverted (small dent) in one of my nerves which they sayaccounts for a lot of the tingline and numbness I have in my leg - which I've described as taking a water hose and folding it in half - where the water builds up and puts pressure but cannot get to the other side.
I've recently (within last 3 months) had my second child. This was my second pregnancy back-to-back as we had tried to conceive for over 10 years with no luck (long fertility issues).
During the last 5 or 6 years I have been with a Pain Center b/c I was told my next procedure would be the BAK surgery. The Pain Center actually went into my lower back and did a procedure to remove scar tissue - I was finally able to feel better and had better mobility. Afterwards I went through mass epiderals (I've had single ones that did nothing - I could drive myself home afterwards and did on more than one occassion). They would knock me out and in my back area sometimes give me 20+ shots - they did my lower, middle back and my neck area - all in order to not go through surgery. They helped - and I was put on medication (which btw I've been on since my accident and had been told by surgeons I would be a chronic pain sufferer b/c if they put rods in my back I would hurt worse - joy). I use to do patches (fentanyl) and with pregnancy went off - they kept me on percocet and my doctors all collaborated and were aware of this. During flare ups - I would use the lobriderm (sp) patch which has no narcotics but helps with inflammation.
Anyway, it's been over 2 years since my last series of shots and about 6 weeks ago I talked to my doctor about getting these done in a few months when the baby was a bit older and I had someone to really help me out with them while my husband was at work. My baby is suffering from some GI issues and having to be tested for Hirsprenger's etc and so I've been pretty much up 24/7 - lets say I get 3 to 4 hours of sleep a day - I called about 2 weeks ago on a Monday (my appt was that Friday) and asked if it was possible to be fitted into his other location on Wednesday b/c I had nobody to watch the kids on Friday as my MIL would be working during the alloted time and my mom was out of town to help out with a sick family member. I have also gotten close to one of the ladies (several actually) and she asked about the kid(s). I explained how the medicine was seemingly uneffective and the lack of sleep and that b/c of all that I was taking more meds than usual and was almost out. (That I was waiting on a dentist appt as my teeth had gotten bad with 2 back-to-back pregnancies and I was on peniciln with that and I was still in pain from both trying to birth vaginally - but the c/s was killing me - ended up having an emergency c/s due to the umbilical cord) blablabla ... she said she would try and get me on the schedule etc. They called back and were unable to do so - I said if anything changes please keep me in mind and keep me down for my regular appt and I'll try and figure something out with someone.
I went into the my appt that Friday (my MIL had to take a 1/2 day vacation to sit with the kids while I went). The dr didn't even acknowledge me - realize we have built a rapport - and the next thing I know the girl comes in and says before you can get your r/x's you have to go do a drug test and bring the form back saying you went. Okay no problem - sure. I drive over and come back.
I get a certified letter today stating that they are dropping my care! WHAT? The letter states that they will see me on an emergency basis in the next 30 days if need be but that's it, due to my breaking some narcotic guideline of taking an opiade not prescribed to me by them (him) - DO WHAT? I take what he gives me - he prescribes to me Percocet 10/325 and the pharmacy fills it - sometimes I get hydrocodone 10/325 sometimes, oxycodone 10/325 always a generic derivitive of the brand - this time it was something else - a round, white pill.
Then it hit me, I had taken 2 lortab on that Wednesday which was left over from hospital of delivery - for my toothache b/c I didn't want to run out of my percs - as I was trying to go as far as I could between taking my meds ... the lortab btw was also generic and I believe it was hydrocodone 5 or something like that - not as strong.
I'm so freaking confused - I mean that was it - I didn't take anything else, except for penicilin and tylenol - and I would not think that would pose anything. I also did not get a copy of my drug test - and I'm confused how a small amount of low dose lortab generic could be pulled out from the percs which I've been on for so long - especially since they are both generic and the same thing except the percs are stronger. Do you think he was just looking for a way to drop me or what? Have any of you ever had to be tested. Now I feel like I won't even be able to get in with another Pain Clinic b/c of this letter - and to not even tell me - I mean I'm due for my next appt in like 8 days - so now with 2 small children I get to go through w/d's which I'm scared to death - b/c I know it's going to be hard to function with them due to the w/d's but the pain is awful b/c I'm in now and on meds - I needed those shots in order to help control the pain so I could cut back on the pills ...... please can someone offer any guidance - I mean I'd love to be pill free and have a normal life - not to be riddled with all the chronic pain (can I ask Santa for a new back).
If you made it this far, thanks for reading!
I was involved in an automobile accident 13 years ago this upcoming July. In it a suffered severe trauma to my spine. I missed being paralyzed by 1/4 an inch - I've had 2 back surgeries and still have a fractured T12 held together by scar tissue. The T12 creates disc issues b/c of its location. I currently have a herniated disc and a ruptured disc. My neck has 2 herniated discs as well - all due to poor posture from the T12 and pressure put upon the rest of my spine so I've been told. During numerous testing they also found an inverted (small dent) in one of my nerves which they sayaccounts for a lot of the tingline and numbness I have in my leg - which I've described as taking a water hose and folding it in half - where the water builds up and puts pressure but cannot get to the other side.
I've recently (within last 3 months) had my second child. This was my second pregnancy back-to-back as we had tried to conceive for over 10 years with no luck (long fertility issues).
During the last 5 or 6 years I have been with a Pain Center b/c I was told my next procedure would be the BAK surgery. The Pain Center actually went into my lower back and did a procedure to remove scar tissue - I was finally able to feel better and had better mobility. Afterwards I went through mass epiderals (I've had single ones that did nothing - I could drive myself home afterwards and did on more than one occassion). They would knock me out and in my back area sometimes give me 20+ shots - they did my lower, middle back and my neck area - all in order to not go through surgery. They helped - and I was put on medication (which btw I've been on since my accident and had been told by surgeons I would be a chronic pain sufferer b/c if they put rods in my back I would hurt worse - joy). I use to do patches (fentanyl) and with pregnancy went off - they kept me on percocet and my doctors all collaborated and were aware of this. During flare ups - I would use the lobriderm (sp) patch which has no narcotics but helps with inflammation.
Anyway, it's been over 2 years since my last series of shots and about 6 weeks ago I talked to my doctor about getting these done in a few months when the baby was a bit older and I had someone to really help me out with them while my husband was at work. My baby is suffering from some GI issues and having to be tested for Hirsprenger's etc and so I've been pretty much up 24/7 - lets say I get 3 to 4 hours of sleep a day - I called about 2 weeks ago on a Monday (my appt was that Friday) and asked if it was possible to be fitted into his other location on Wednesday b/c I had nobody to watch the kids on Friday as my MIL would be working during the alloted time and my mom was out of town to help out with a sick family member. I have also gotten close to one of the ladies (several actually) and she asked about the kid(s). I explained how the medicine was seemingly uneffective and the lack of sleep and that b/c of all that I was taking more meds than usual and was almost out. (That I was waiting on a dentist appt as my teeth had gotten bad with 2 back-to-back pregnancies and I was on peniciln with that and I was still in pain from both trying to birth vaginally - but the c/s was killing me - ended up having an emergency c/s due to the umbilical cord) blablabla ... she said she would try and get me on the schedule etc. They called back and were unable to do so - I said if anything changes please keep me in mind and keep me down for my regular appt and I'll try and figure something out with someone.
I went into the my appt that Friday (my MIL had to take a 1/2 day vacation to sit with the kids while I went). The dr didn't even acknowledge me - realize we have built a rapport - and the next thing I know the girl comes in and says before you can get your r/x's you have to go do a drug test and bring the form back saying you went. Okay no problem - sure. I drive over and come back.
I get a certified letter today stating that they are dropping my care! WHAT? The letter states that they will see me on an emergency basis in the next 30 days if need be but that's it, due to my breaking some narcotic guideline of taking an opiade not prescribed to me by them (him) - DO WHAT? I take what he gives me - he prescribes to me Percocet 10/325 and the pharmacy fills it - sometimes I get hydrocodone 10/325 sometimes, oxycodone 10/325 always a generic derivitive of the brand - this time it was something else - a round, white pill.
Then it hit me, I had taken 2 lortab on that Wednesday which was left over from hospital of delivery - for my toothache b/c I didn't want to run out of my percs - as I was trying to go as far as I could between taking my meds ... the lortab btw was also generic and I believe it was hydrocodone 5 or something like that - not as strong.
I'm so freaking confused - I mean that was it - I didn't take anything else, except for penicilin and tylenol - and I would not think that would pose anything. I also did not get a copy of my drug test - and I'm confused how a small amount of low dose lortab generic could be pulled out from the percs which I've been on for so long - especially since they are both generic and the same thing except the percs are stronger. Do you think he was just looking for a way to drop me or what? Have any of you ever had to be tested. Now I feel like I won't even be able to get in with another Pain Clinic b/c of this letter - and to not even tell me - I mean I'm due for my next appt in like 8 days - so now with 2 small children I get to go through w/d's which I'm scared to death - b/c I know it's going to be hard to function with them due to the w/d's but the pain is awful b/c I'm in now and on meds - I needed those shots in order to help control the pain so I could cut back on the pills ...... please can someone offer any guidance - I mean I'd love to be pill free and have a normal life - not to be riddled with all the chronic pain (can I ask Santa for a new back).
If you made it this far, thanks for reading!
First of all I would stop calling and just show up at the docs office, and demand to speak to him tell him about the lortab you really did nothing wrong it was also prescribed to you. He cannot just drop you c/t like that with no help weaning off the pain pills. Also by law he has to give you a copy of your drug test and all your med records. Threaten him with a lawyer if he will not help, even if you don't have one. First I would try the crying, in pain mother of 2 approach first, which is what you really are!!! I feel really bad for you, please keep me posted.
Yes, I'm another one to notice that it has been a long time since your originals postings. But, I also wonder how things turned out for you.
One thing I did notice, no one else made mention of, and I'm not sure if you have realized yet or not is the following. Below are two comments from your posts:
"the only difference in meds was strength - as stated I normally get hydrocodone or oxycodone 10/325 (generic for percs) depending on what the pharm has"
and
"I take what he gives me - he prescribes to me Percocet 10/325 and the pharmacy fills it - sometimes I get hydrocodone 10/325 sometimes, oxycodone 10/325 always a generic derivative of the brand"
Hydrocodone and oxycodone are NOT the same medication. They are similar in action and effect, but definitely two separate medications. Hydrocodone is the opioid in brand named drugs such as Vicodin and Lortab. Oxycodone is the opioid in Percocet, Percodan, Tylox, and others. Both drugs are generally looked for in urine screens and they are detected and reported separately as they are two of the most common drugs available for pain.
It appears that your pain management physician was prescribing oxycodone for you and you took the Lortab left over from your delivery, which then caused the dirty urine.
As "Beargizmo" stated above, once you're on the outs with your pain management physician, there is very little if any "wiggle room." I sure hope that you were able to resolve this situation with your old pain doctor or at least find a new one.
It would be helpful to all here who are currently dealing with a pain management physician (or will be in the future) if you could update us all on your story. I really hope that everything worked out well for you.
One thing I did notice, no one else made mention of, and I'm not sure if you have realized yet or not is the following. Below are two comments from your posts:
"the only difference in meds was strength - as stated I normally get hydrocodone or oxycodone 10/325 (generic for percs) depending on what the pharm has"
and
"I take what he gives me - he prescribes to me Percocet 10/325 and the pharmacy fills it - sometimes I get hydrocodone 10/325 sometimes, oxycodone 10/325 always a generic derivative of the brand"
Hydrocodone and oxycodone are NOT the same medication. They are similar in action and effect, but definitely two separate medications. Hydrocodone is the opioid in brand named drugs such as Vicodin and Lortab. Oxycodone is the opioid in Percocet, Percodan, Tylox, and others. Both drugs are generally looked for in urine screens and they are detected and reported separately as they are two of the most common drugs available for pain.
It appears that your pain management physician was prescribing oxycodone for you and you took the Lortab left over from your delivery, which then caused the dirty urine.
As "Beargizmo" stated above, once you're on the outs with your pain management physician, there is very little if any "wiggle room." I sure hope that you were able to resolve this situation with your old pain doctor or at least find a new one.
It would be helpful to all here who are currently dealing with a pain management physician (or will be in the future) if you could update us all on your story. I really hope that everything worked out well for you.
My wife was dropped by her PM doctor for similar reasons and we fought and called and wrote letters to no avail..once they drop you..that's it. They are required to treat you for 30 days..there's very little if any "wiggle room" with them..which has my wife and me furious (detailed in the pain management forum here).
The bottom line..DO NOT TAKE ANY prescription med from any doctor regardless of reason without consulting with your pain management doctor..I'll leave out several editorial comments that I might have on the subject.
Jim
The bottom line..DO NOT TAKE ANY prescription med from any doctor regardless of reason without consulting with your pain management doctor..I'll leave out several editorial comments that I might have on the subject.
Jim
wtf??? this is an old post..why does this keep happening..I wonder how things turned out for her???
I am a certified drug tester and they are required to give u a copy for ur records at the time of the drug test. The lab is suppose to consult u first before reporting the results to others..at least that is the way our systems works. I would demand a copy of the test results.
Also, from what I understand, your doctor could get in a lot of trouble for not assisting you in reducing/weaning off of those meds. Especially since he knows your history and dosage amounts. You can't just drop someone like that! Talk to a lawyer if he refuses to help you still, it can't hurt.
I know it's been a long time since you posted, but I just wanted to let you know, in case you didn't know....you are entitled to a copy of the test and ALL of your medical records from that doctor. That in itself, should help you show your pcp that you are not a doctor shopper and maybe then he could help refer you to someone that will help you.
For anyone wanting to taper off.....I have found the best way is to reduce and then spread out the times. For example, say you take your meds 2 times a day. For 2 or 3 weeks, reduce your morning/first meds by 1/8 (just to be safe, it's easier to handle than going down fast; get a pill cutter) and then take the normal amound for the rest of the day. After you've become adjusted to it, in about 2-3 weeks or whatever works for you, then reduce the afternoon by an 1/8 for another two or three weeks. Keep doing this until you're down to taking ONLY an 1/8 of a pill 2 times daily, which amounts to 1/4 of a pill daily. Then, once you've adjusted to the last reduction, start lengthening the hours in between doses. I recommend 2 hours extra before taking your next dose, for both doses. So if you took it at 8 in the morning, try to wait until 10. The same for the afternoon dose. Gradually, as you adjust to each change, spread out the hours another 2 hours. You'll get to a point where you're only taking 1/8 a day, and some people can quit cold turkey from that point pretty easily (or at least with less w/d symptoms). If not, continue the 2 hour increment increases until you're at every other day and then you should be able to skip days at a time without needing anything. I hope this works for someone, I know it worked for me. It's best to write out a schedule to go by so you don't forget or feel tempted to break it. Best wishes to all!
For anyone wanting to taper off.....I have found the best way is to reduce and then spread out the times. For example, say you take your meds 2 times a day. For 2 or 3 weeks, reduce your morning/first meds by 1/8 (just to be safe, it's easier to handle than going down fast; get a pill cutter) and then take the normal amound for the rest of the day. After you've become adjusted to it, in about 2-3 weeks or whatever works for you, then reduce the afternoon by an 1/8 for another two or three weeks. Keep doing this until you're down to taking ONLY an 1/8 of a pill 2 times daily, which amounts to 1/4 of a pill daily. Then, once you've adjusted to the last reduction, start lengthening the hours in between doses. I recommend 2 hours extra before taking your next dose, for both doses. So if you took it at 8 in the morning, try to wait until 10. The same for the afternoon dose. Gradually, as you adjust to each change, spread out the hours another 2 hours. You'll get to a point where you're only taking 1/8 a day, and some people can quit cold turkey from that point pretty easily (or at least with less w/d symptoms). If not, continue the 2 hour increment increases until you're at every other day and then you should be able to skip days at a time without needing anything. I hope this works for someone, I know it worked for me. It's best to write out a schedule to go by so you don't forget or feel tempted to break it. Best wishes to all!
I'm not out of my meds ... yet. My next appt was in about 1.5 weeks - but I still haven't heard back and I've called again. I don't have a meeting scheduled b/c they won't even call me back and no I wasn't given a copy of the test which I feel I should have been. I'm not sure what it tested for (levels or what).
That is why I'm confused b/c regardless the only difference in meds was strength - as stated I normally get hydrocodone or oxycodone 10/325 (generic for percs) depending on what the pharm has and the one difference was the generic hydro I think it was for the lortab 5 - so it was weaker and I had like hardly any of them ... so I'm confused as hell.
I guess my next appt I'm not suppose to show up - I was told from someone else that 'on an emergency basis' would mean if something bad happened and I needed to come in but not for continuation of my next appt and meds - so they have cut me loose - buh bye. And they also sent a copy of the letter to my regular doctor who now seems to be under the impression that I am not 'a chronic pain sufferer' but a doctor shopper - okay I just had a damn child and I've endured over 10 years of pain and surgeries but b/c of this everyone now thinks I'm ............. oh just nevermind I'm so frustrated and upset which doesn't help anything at the moment.
I'll keep trying to call them and see where it leads. Thanks for listening to me vent!
That is why I'm confused b/c regardless the only difference in meds was strength - as stated I normally get hydrocodone or oxycodone 10/325 (generic for percs) depending on what the pharm has and the one difference was the generic hydro I think it was for the lortab 5 - so it was weaker and I had like hardly any of them ... so I'm confused as hell.
I guess my next appt I'm not suppose to show up - I was told from someone else that 'on an emergency basis' would mean if something bad happened and I needed to come in but not for continuation of my next appt and meds - so they have cut me loose - buh bye. And they also sent a copy of the letter to my regular doctor who now seems to be under the impression that I am not 'a chronic pain sufferer' but a doctor shopper - okay I just had a damn child and I've endured over 10 years of pain and surgeries but b/c of this everyone now thinks I'm ............. oh just nevermind I'm so frustrated and upset which doesn't help anything at the moment.
I'll keep trying to call them and see where it leads. Thanks for listening to me vent!
I wonder what the drug test measured. DId it measure how much opiate was in your system or which kind? It doesn't seem fair that you weren't provided a copy of the test. I am glad you have scheduled a meeting. Let us know what happens. In the meantime, is there anything else you can take for pain? Are you completely out of everything? I am so sorry you are going through this, keep posting, it helps to vent and there are many great listeners here with all kinds of helpful tips.
Hi and thanks for the 'sincere' replies.
I had/have already called the doctor office as soon as I received / read the 'certified' letter.
It's almost 5p and no return call as of yet. As stated, the lady I spoke with about trying to get an earlier appt knew everything but I want to reitterate it.Aside from that, I've been with this doctor for a long time and he knows about my kids and everything - that is why I was so shocked of the last appt and all that transpired - goes to show, never try and get an earlier appt b/c of family or anthing else - never did I try that in all of my time going to him.
You'd have thought that I was doing more illicit drugs - oh well, I'll keep you posted as I must run - the baby is crying and the other is jumping off furniture LOL.
I had/have already called the doctor office as soon as I received / read the 'certified' letter.
It's almost 5p and no return call as of yet. As stated, the lady I spoke with about trying to get an earlier appt knew everything but I want to reitterate it.Aside from that, I've been with this doctor for a long time and he knows about my kids and everything - that is why I was so shocked of the last appt and all that transpired - goes to show, never try and get an earlier appt b/c of family or anthing else - never did I try that in all of my time going to him.
You'd have thought that I was doing more illicit drugs - oh well, I'll keep you posted as I must run - the baby is crying and the other is jumping off furniture LOL.
Barack H. Obama, isn't he the DEMOCRAT who wants government run healthcare. I think he is. Stop giving bad advice to sincere folks just looking for help. But then again, keep it up and I'm sure you won't be here very long. Good day.
I am not suggesting that you are not trying to help, and on many levels I agree with you, but it just isn't safe to buy pills off line!! Who knows what you're getting? That should be a LAST resort, if any at all! My friends father was addicted to vicodin, and his best friend was the doc prescribing him. When the doc finally got into trouble, my friends dad started ordering from online pharms. Now, this is a lawyer, and educated man who I am sure did his research on "reputable" places on line to order from. Well, to make a long story short, he ended up in hospital because he got a batch of vics in mail laced with rat poison. Not kidding.
I am not suggesting that you are not trying to help, and on many levels I agree with you, but it just isn't safe to buy pills off line!! Who knows what you're getting? That should be a LAST resort, if any at all! My friends father was addicted to vicodin, and his best friend was the doc prescribing him. When the doc finally got into trouble, my friends dad started ordering from online pharms. Now, this is a lawyer, and educated man who I am sure did his research on "reputable" places on line to order from. Well, to make a long story short, he ended up in hospital because he got a batch of vics in mail laced with rat poison. Not kidding.
All Emily was saying is that it is NOT SAFE to get vicodin (or any other narcotic) over the internet without a legit prescription which is GOOD advice. We know this Mother is in pain, but getting illegal drugs off the internet is not the way to go.
MotherPain, I wish you luck, and agree with Emily about calling your doctor for an emergency appt.
MotherPain, I wish you luck, and agree with Emily about calling your doctor for an emergency appt.
Hi MotherPain,
Welcome to the forum! I will get to you in a second, but first:
PillDealer: Really, really bad advice. When you order painkillers over the internet, it is not safe unless you have a valid prescription and go through a valid pharmacy. Besides the fact that I believe it's illegal, it is very unsafe. You never know "what you are getting", meaning that other countries don't have the same safety standards that we do, and who knows what you are getting in the "vicodin" pills? That is reckless advice to offer to a mother of two small children!!!
MotherPain,
I am soooo sorry to hear of your situation. I would call the doctor, like, today, and ask for an emergency appt to discuss the entire situation. Tell them everything you told us, every detail. Tell them that if they still are uncomfortbable with prescribing to you, could they at least help you wean from pain meds and refer you to another doctor. Explain about having two small kids, along with your terrible pain, and you are scared and don't know what to do.
I quit codeine and vicodin cold turkey in Dec, and the w/d was not fun. It would have been much more comfortable to taper, but because I was addicted MENTALLY as well as physically, I couldn't taper...I kept slipping up and taking more pills. Hopefully the others on the forum can offer you better advice, and please keep us posted!!
Welcome to the forum! I will get to you in a second, but first:
PillDealer: Really, really bad advice. When you order painkillers over the internet, it is not safe unless you have a valid prescription and go through a valid pharmacy. Besides the fact that I believe it's illegal, it is very unsafe. You never know "what you are getting", meaning that other countries don't have the same safety standards that we do, and who knows what you are getting in the "vicodin" pills? That is reckless advice to offer to a mother of two small children!!!
MotherPain,
I am soooo sorry to hear of your situation. I would call the doctor, like, today, and ask for an emergency appt to discuss the entire situation. Tell them everything you told us, every detail. Tell them that if they still are uncomfortbable with prescribing to you, could they at least help you wean from pain meds and refer you to another doctor. Explain about having two small kids, along with your terrible pain, and you are scared and don't know what to do.
I quit codeine and vicodin cold turkey in Dec, and the w/d was not fun. It would have been much more comfortable to taper, but because I was addicted MENTALLY as well as physically, I couldn't taper...I kept slipping up and taking more pills. Hopefully the others on the forum can offer you better advice, and please keep us posted!!
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