mom has question on suboxone

[carval]

3-4 years ago I came to the realization that my son was hooked on oxi's. After a year and a half of hell, he went into treatment with methadone. His life is back on track, but it seems that the methadone clinic will not work with him to get him down any lower than 80mgs.  At one point he was trying to half his dosage and got caught spitting/throwing out the other half dosage. They were not happy.  Last week he went to see a Suboxone doctor.  He has been halfing is 80 mgs at the clinic again since Monday, and yesterday (Thursday) was able to get down to 1/4 dose (20mgs) without anyone noticing.  Today (Friday)he saw the Sub doctor and started. Took his first pill at the office 11:00 a.m.  He is now at home, the sweats have stopped, but now its the headache, backache, and general body aches. He has taken the pills the way the doctor has told him. How long does this continue? I am hoping he will be able to go back to work on Monday.  He has no desire to return to drug use as his life has finally come together. Will he have to continue on the Sub for years like the Methadone?

[wait2long]

i havent had a percocet since sept. 26, and i havent had a methadone since i think it was may 16th?  i would have to go look at my calender...but i just hope i am able to get off the suboxone now....

[Savas]

Well, you'll be happy to hear they're out there. Quite a few users on this board have transferred to suboxone, and some here are off methadone and all drugs  entirely. It does happen. I think people like us don't hear about it because we've been travelling in the wrong circles. Here on boards like this, or if you go to meetings, you'll find them.
     But at the clinics and such places...no, not many there that can claim it (big surprise!).

Heck, I was stopped for four months, cold turkey. Now I know what I need to do to make it work properly when I do it this time, thanks to places like this..

[LittleLai]

The transition (induction period) is hard for some, but easier for others. However it's tough going from Methadone. The problem is that Methadone being the longest lasting full-opiod is still the toughest thing to quit. I have yet to meet a methadone patient that has quit.

Unfortunately this makes the transition tougher, but trust me it's worth it. Suboxone is a wonder drug that has saved my life.

Also, do you have insurance? that makes a huge difference

[wait2long]

good question...i dont know the answer to...but i will tell you 1 thing..if a methadone patient switching to suboxone can hang on for the first 2 weeks, then they wil be able to do this...it was hard, the sickness for 4 days was like how you would feel going cold turkey of methadone, but thrown into a 4 day timeframe!!!  and then its the dysphoria and depression for the next 4-5 weeks...after that its been smooth sailing, well i dont know about smooth sailing...but definatley better...most detox facilities will not take a methadone patient for suboxone...

[Savas]

I remember when suboxone first came out, they wouldn't even consider letting people on methadone use it. They said it wouldn't work well, the transition was to difficult. I wonder what made them change their minds and decide it was okay. It doesn't seem it's any less true now than it was then.

[wait2long]

  the side effects i have been having is with my memory, i get confused easily...and right now i am having some unbeleivable swelling in my feet,ankles and calves...but is it from suboxone, i dont know, my doctor has been on vacation.  i am not a beleiver of long term use of suboxone...but i think someone on that high of a dose of meth. , 3 weeks time is too short...it can take 30+ days for the methadone to be gone from your system...if you stop the sub to early...you may still be suffering from the methadone...i think anyone on methadone (especially a higher dose) has to stay on the sub for at least 4-5 weeks... that is how it worked for me...but my doctor wanted me on the sub for 2 years...and that i am not willing to do....i already beleive i have been on it too long. but as i said i could tell when the methadone was gone from my system, because thats when i started feeling better around the 4th or 5th week.

[wait2long]

i was on methadone and transitioned to suboxone..i was only taking 20 mgs of methadone daily...i waited almost 5 full days before my withdrawals even started, i ended up taking 32 mgs of suboxone my first day, it was a horrible transition, lasted for about 4 days, then it started to work...i have been on suboxone since end of may, too long. but for about 4-5weeks i was taking the 32 mgs of sub with a split dose, 16mg in the morn...and 16mg in the eve,  methadone patients that switch to sub always have a harder time, and i know you said he was splitting his dose. at the clinic..but he really should have been on the lowest dose possible for at LEAST 2 weeks before his first dose of sub,   he may also find that he needs a higher dose because of the methadone...i was on a very low dose of methadone and still had a hard time..it can take 30+ days for the methadone to leave his system, and i believe if the dose of methadone was higher, than he will have a harder time, which is why he may need a higher dose of sub...and i think 3 weeks time may be too short of a time for him on the sub., the methadone may still be there after 3 weeks?, i would recommend at least 5 weeks on the sub, but once he has started to feel better, which probably wont be until around the 4th week, it may be sooner, but with me it wasnt, is when he should start tapering...i was on 32 mgs of sub for about 4-5 weeks, then tapered down to 16 mgs, with NO problems, i am now on 10 Mgs of sub and feeling good, still no problems lowering my dose of sub...i am soon dropping it to 8mgs of sub...  good luck..and if you have any questions just let us know....

[Savas]

Well... if it's been less than two weeks since his drop to 20 milligrams...than his body is still reacting as if on a higher dose. It takes two weeks minimum before your body adjusts to the new methadone dose. So he could be suffering because of that.
     And it usually takes a week to stabilize on suboxone, with a few doctor's visits before you're on a dose that works for you. Not always, but usually. And the closer to 20 milligrams you are, the more likely that's to be true.

You should ask some of the others like "wait2long" about long term usage. They're complaining about side effects, it seems. I get the impression it wasn't meant to be used long term. But it is being used long term.

If he does come off suboxone, he will go through similar withdrawals that will need to be treated (I'm talking about a doctor prescribed taper). Hopefully they won't be as bad, but he probably won't be totally fine without treatment.

The main advantage to suboxone is the "freedom" from a clinic situation. Otherwise, it's just as addictive. I can't say if it's less addictive or not, it's not supposed to be (partial antagonist as opposed to a full antagonist like methadone). It's still pretty new...
Anyone care to comment who's on it?

[serenitysaves]

He's probably having a harder time because you should be down to 20-30milligrams from what I understand.  I know the doctors I've talked to won't dose you unless your under 30milligrams and you also need to be going through withddraw.  Suboxone is an easier drug to get from a doctor (not having to goto a clinic, able to get from pharmacy) .   I hope you son is working with the doctors with his does.  As far as time on suboxone it varys with everyone, as does methadone.  It can be used long term, but if he has been doing well on methadone and has been living a life of recovery he should be able to stop in a few months.  This should all be discused with his doctors.  
take care, Robin

[carval]

No he didn't wait 48 hours.  He took 20 mgs of methadone on Thursday a.m. and then started the sub on Friday @ 11.  Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday he was on 40 mgs.

[FLaddict]

Did he wait 48 hours after his last dose of methodone b4 starting the Sub???  How long was he down to 20mgs they usually suggest getting down to that for two weeks..

He will not have to stay on Sub like methodone.. he should get off in about 3 weeks..that is about how much time it takes to detox and taper off of Sub b4 becoming dependent on it..

How much Sub did they give him today??