would a dr do this?

[notgoingdown]

Today my husband was talking to our neighbor about how bad his pain is and I heard him say that his dr told him if he is really hurting bad that it would be fine for him to take 2 of his pain pills at one time. (7.5/750 vicodin) Would a dr tell a patient this or is this another instance of an addict lying to excuse their behavior.

[sway1]

i wish someone had noticed my behavioral changes in the early stages. it sounds like you really love him. call him on his sh#@. once it's out in the open and not such a big secret you can move on to the next step. you are in my prayers.  sway

[nursegirl6572]

I personally think you're right...that is quite a bit of evidence, IMO.  Sounds like he is already telling quite a few tall tales to explain why he is out of them early.

Wonder what would happen if you could get a hold of ALL of his pills and hide them (not admitting you took them)....just to see what his reaction would be?  I bet he would lose it totally...at which time you could confront him.

Okay...probably not the nicest way to go about things....I guess I'm just thinking out loud.

You don't really NEED "proof" by the way..if something is off, then it's off...and you are seeing lots of signs.  Find a time, confront him...give him the choice to clean himself up NOW with 100% of your love and support through the whole hellish ordeal.  And, make yourself very clear that you WILL NOT tolerate anything except him getting help if he starts denying that he has a problem.

Geesh, I wish there was an easy answer (as does every person that addiction has touched).  Please keep the forum updated on how things are going okay?

[notgoingdown]

Yeah he is showing other signs. I started noticing a pattern in late Nov/ early Dec when I saw how he was acting when he ran out of pills about 4 days before his appt. According to him when someone broke into his work truck & stole some of his tools they also took his pain meds he kept in there. He gets 140 per month and the pharmacy splits it up into 2 bottles of 70. He always used to keep one in his truck and one in the house. His truck was broken into and I really have no proof that they didnt take his pills. I didnt think at the time that him running out might be because he is taking more than prescribed but a couple weeks later when he was out I saw what had to be withdrawals. I might not have even noticed it then if he had just said he must have picked up some bug but he kept insisting that he had picked up the stomach bug that the kids just had... only thing was the bug they had was over a month before that. I kept pointing it out that they had been sick too long ago for him to have gotten it from them and he must have gotten it from someone else but he kept insisting it was more recent than that but I know it was about a week before Halloween. I remember thinking why is his thinking so messed up and why cant he remember how long ago it was. Then what finally made me go OMG! was when he finally went to the dr and I saw what was surely nodding. I called my friend who went thru this a couple years ago with her bf and she said that if he 'dosed himself hard' after being out of them for a few days that I would see that. Then I started watching and made the connection with a lot of the changes in behavior with the abuse.  
Like I said... I have no way of knowing 100% but I can tell you that I am 100% sure that I am right. Kinda like explaining to someone how you know that you love someone. Every one of those feelings could be explained away by something else too.
I am not sure what would be harder... trying to talk to him about what I think is abuse and him denying it or having to do it the way you are where you know and are trying to help him but then having to deal with the emotional ups & downs of their addiction.

[Sunnyd210]

You are so right its crazy what these drs give out. I think more than the addiction problem the reason drs arent prescribing pain meds so easy anymore is because alot of people are selling their pills. I agree it makes it very hard for someone in pain to get the pills they need. It is very frustrating.

[lovemypillhead]

u know..it really is like up to each doctor.  u are right.

i think some doctors like u could go in with your arm chopped off and bleeding non stop and like passing out due to pain and the dr woulndt give a script for even Motrin......

Other doctors ... someone could go to with like a stubbed thumb and they'd get something like percocet 10's or something!  

I really do feel bad though for people who have REAL pain and can't get pain relief from doctors because doctors are scared now to write scripts because of the abuse going on...especially with people younger in age. i really do think that the people tha tfit the category of "drug seeking"  cannot get appropriate help.

[nursegirl6572]

"Now, I don't see a dr telling a patient to take 2 80mg of Oxy at once.........."

Oh, you'd be surprised!  I've had patients taking HUGE doses (while in my facility, Rx'ed by their docs) of more than ONE Narc at a time for chronic pain syndromes....I've always been amazed that some of these people have been able to function!!!!!

Some were on enough to knock down a horse (or two!)  LOL!

:0)

I agree, too...it's hard to tell if her hubby is indeed an "addict" per se...but I have to say that it is certainly looking like it may be the case.  Geez, for the OP's sake, I hope he isn't.

[lovemypillhead]

Maybe we need some more info.....in terms of being able to label him an addict. But, YES a doctor WILL tell a pain patient that they can take 2 vicodin at once.  Vicodin is a lower dose pain pill.  Now, I don't see a dr telling a patient to take 2 80mg of Oxy at once..........because obviously that is a way stronger pain pill....it's time released , etc.

Is your husband showing other signs of addiction or something?

[nursegirl6572]

I agree with gizzy that he definitely sounds like he has an addiction problem.  How bad it is is uncertain, but even if his usage isn't as bad as you thought, he of course still needs help...and the sooner the better, b/c it WILL get worse over time.

I would flat out confront him if I were you...tell him you KNOW he has a problem, and that he needs to get help.  Be firm, but caring.  Tell him that you'll do anything in your power to help him if he helps himself.  Tell him that you want him around for the kids...and with as much as he is taking...he is at risk for organ issues (ie, liver disease, etc).  

A lot of addicts would love to stop b/c the day in/day out trials are horrible...not only is addiction physical, but it is also bigtime emotional/mental and really wears one down.  You may be surprised, he may react in a way you never imagined.

Keep posting here...you'll get wonderful support, and guidance to help you through this, from people who have lived it in one way or another.

Best of luck to you....it's going to be a tough road.

[notgoingdown]

Thanks Gizzy. If there is a person on here who gives me hope that he doesnt have to be a statistic with the whole get clean & relapse cycle it is you. I know that you DOC was not that same as his and that may or may not have some effect on it. I cant say I know that much about cocaine addiction but I know from your story that you were just as addicted as any heroin or meth addict and it was just as hard for you to kick it and that you still fight it every day.
I know that he is still at the early stage and it makes me so angry because I know that at this point he has a really good chance to get off this stuff but only if he is willing to admit that he has a problem. We still talk about people we know who have let this addiction ruin their lives and he still says the same stuff he always did... "cant understand how people let it get out of control like that" OR "dont know how people can get to the point where they choose pills over family". All it does now is make me sad to know (or pretty much know) that he can still say all that stuff knowing that he is lying to me about his use. I even bring up this topic hoping that he would use the conversation as a reason to open up to me and tell me the truth. But he just continues to lie & deny.
Thanks again tho.... hope when it comes right down to it that I can be as strong as I need to be. Figures that I might have to consider this option in an economy like this! That is a topic for a whole other message board tho.  

[gizzy32]

You sound like a very stong women and your right, you have to think of your kids and yourself. At this point I am guessing he is not in too deep, but definately addicted. Active addicts are good liars and you should not have watch him like a hawk. Denial is a huge factor in addition and if he really is abusing them, he needs to come clean to you and admit he needs some help. I wish you the best.

[notgoingdown]

His current injury was June 07 so it has been over a yr & half ago. There was also another injury about 5 yrs ago that he was taking opiate meds for and he even told me during that injury that he continued taking them about a year longer than he needed to because they gave him energy. I didnt know enough about opiates, addiction & wd's to be able to say that I saw wd's & how bad they were. If he used the whole got the flu thing I would have believed him but I honestly cant remember anyway.
As for this time around I am pretty sure that they are being abused. The biggest reason I am sure of this is that he always tells me that he only takes 1-2 pills a day morning & night and sometimes doesnt even need that. But I have been monitoring his pills without his knowledge and he is taking about 6 per day. Not a lot compared to some people on this board but my point is that it is 4 pills more per day than he tells me. The fact that he is lying to me is more telling than anything. When I asked about the number of pills gone he tells me that since he doesnt need his entire script that he gives them to a coworker with a back injury that doesnt have insurance. Since asking about them he keeps the pills in his work truck that I dont have access to.
I have asked & he denies. I have monitored his use & he has a good excuse. All I can do at this point is continue to watch. If it becomes clear to me that he does have a problem that he cant deny or excuse away I have already decided that I will give him that one chance to get treatment.If he doesnt admit to the problem or gives me a line of BS I wont stick around to watch him self destruct and I for dang sure dont want the kids to get a front row seat to that! I know that it sounds like I am heartless about something that he cant control but I have to think of my kids and myself. I read here constantly and I know from other posters that for too many it is just a vicious cycle of get clean & relapse.

[nursegirl6572]

Absolutely that is totally normal, as many others have said.  If your hubby wasn't getting proper pain relief with one pill, then it isn't uncommon at all for a doc to recommend upping the dose.  Pain meds in most instances are only supposed to be used for a short time, until whatever issue causing the pain is resolved.  Unless a doctor is aware of a patient having a serious history of addiction, they are simply treating the pain.

IF your hubby DOES have a history...then watch him carefully, make sure his doc is aware, and make sure that this regimen is as short term as it can be.  Without knowing what his pain is caused by...it is hard to recommend other options in addition to the narcotic pain pills.  A lot of time, if it is an injury of some sort...alternating the Vicodin with Tylenol (every 4 hours as needed) or Motrin (every 6 hours as needed) works well, along with heat or cold to the injured area.

You'd have to check with his doc first, to make sure that there isn't a reason he shouldn't take the extra Tylenol (as there is already a significant amount in the narcotic) or the Motrin.  Personally...I have seen a LOT of people respond VERY nicely with an alternating dose of the narcotic and high dose Motrin (800 mg every 6 hours), then, as the pain starts improving, alternating Tylenol (650 mg) and Motrin (800 mg) every 6 hours.

He should be just fine if it is only short term.

[tbirds]

useing two of the 7.5 their is nothing wrong with that at all. Your going to find most the people on hear are very cautions when asked about uping a dose, with good reason it can lead to a big problem. But for the average person this is fine. Is your hubby trying Ibprofhen along with the pain meds? Just keep an eye on him. I new in here but there are some pretty smart people in here that can help you with advise. Ive been a P.A for 8 years and a lot of the people in here know more then some Drs I work with.

[avisg]

Yes doctors do say that .The doctor is treating the "pain" he thinks the person has .Its only a problem when the pills are being taken for other reason then pain

[broknbck]

yes a doctor would say that. that is what they told me.
the thing is that they are not expecting you to take them all day long for long periods of time. only when the pain is unbearable and maybe you have to do something like get in a car and go to the doctor or funeral or whatever.
they had always told me not to take them everyday. you should scatter them. they are very easy to get addicted to. but of course i did not listen. hopefully at least the people around me will take the advice seriously now if they are in that situation.

[Super33]

Once you start uping the dosage you're walking into a trap.  I was on the same thing your husband is on.  I was supposed to take 1 every 4 hours as needed for pain.  Taking one was great and all but I'm the kind of guy that has to take 2.  So I started taking 2 at a time every 4 hours.  I felt a difference but that wore off and then I found myself taking 3 at a time.  And it gets worse and worse.  I believe if you stay to the dosage on the bottle you're minimizing your withdrawel effects when it's time to stop the medication.  When you start taking extra you're really putting yourself in a hole and it will not be a fun hole to climb out of.  It's like drinking, you drink too much and you'll get a hangover when the alcohol wears off, except the vicodin hangover lasts for several days at least, and personally I would prefer a liquor hangover!  You should scroll through this forum and read some of the pain killer posts with your husband.

[slash36]

Just an opinion but it could be acceptable to tell a patient that for the next step for the Dr. would be to prescribe a stronger pain killer anyway.If its true i would tell you 1 and 1/2 see what that does first.Just an opinion.