switching from 100mg methadone to suboxone

[Dana0730]

My husband just got prescribed suboxone. He took his last dose of 100mg liquid methadone Tuesday night and then took 2  8mg film Friday night around 6:00. It through him into immediate withdrawal. He's been in bed all day and doesn't want to continue with the suboxone b/c he can't handle the withdrawal. If I can convince him to keep going how much & how often does he need to take them so he can start to feel normal again. They prescribed him 8mg films. We can't afford the meth clinic and his ins covers sub.  I need help.

[RockingrebelRene]

Dear Dana, My name is Rene and I live in the Netherlands. When you switch from Methadone to Suboxone you really need first taper the Methadone to or under the 30mg.Then you must wait for the methadone-withdrawal symptoms......the longer you wait to take the Suboxone the better it helps.
A doctor who prescribed Suboxone when you on 100mg methadone 'plays' with persons life. And a bad and ugly message to people who kicked-in PRECIPITATED WITHDRAWAL because thet take their Suboxone to quick is; you cannot do anything about it. I know what is happening when in PW because in 2003 a doctor, (a certified addiction doctor; maybe he buy the certificates in Thailand or something I don't know hahahaha), gave me 50mg Naltrexone after one day I had stopped my methadone! IT WAS THE MOST HORRIBLE EXPERIENCE OF MY LIFE AND AFTER 3 DAYS VOMMITING I SMOKED A GRAM OF HEROINE AND THEN I FELT BETTER.shorter time than that 3 days and there is no opiate what helps because the Suboxon or in my case the Naltrexone is a lot stronger.

I wish you a lot of love and Light, wisdom and I shall pray for you both...........with Kind Regards René from the Netherlands (Amsterdam)........................................

Oh Yeah dear Dana, the only advice I can give is to go to the website of ROBERTS TAPER PLAN (Use Google to find it) and you can Google; ''HOW TO GET OF SUBOXONE''! And maybe you better read the articles of DOCTOR STEVEN SCANLAN; one of the articles opens my eyes, the name of that article is; ''SUBOXONE, AN AMAZING DETOX TOOL, BUT AN MONSTER MAINTENANCE DRUG''!

[Cml986]

My doctor would not even consider switching me until I was at 30 mg a day of methadone. Then he prescribed me oxycodone  (20 mg 3 times a day) for 6 days to ease the pain of getting all the methadone out of my system (oxycodone is short acting so gets out of your system in 24 hours as opposed to the 5 days it takes 30mg of methadone) Then on day 7 he told me to go 24 hours minimum without the oxycodone ( until I was in bad withdrawl) and then to take the suboxone. My fiance did it this way as well and successfully made the switch. It's still not easy, but definitely tolerable. 3 months after starting the subs, he had successfully tapered off and quit the suboxone. It wasn't a walk in the park. He felt like **** for almost 4 weeks after stopping at 1 mg of sub. He is now doing really good. Still not 100% but he's getting there.

[RockingrebelRene]

Dear Dana, My name is Rene and I live in the Netherlands. When you switch from Methadone to Suboxone you really need first taper the Methadone to or under the 30mg.Then you must wait for the methadone-withdrawal symptoms......the longer you wait to take the Suboxone the better it helps.
A doctor who prescribed Suboxone when you on 100mg methadone 'plays' with persons life. And a bad and ugly message to people who kicked-in PRECIPITATED WITHDRAWAL because thet take their Suboxone to quick is; you cannot do anything about it. I know what is happening when in PW because in 2003 a doctor, (a certified addiction doctor; maybe he buy the certificates in Thailand or something I don't know hahahaha), gave me 50mg Naltrexone after one day I had stopped my methadone! IT WAS THE MOST HORRIBLE EXPERIENCE OF MY LIFE AND AFTER 3 DAYS VOMMITING I SMOKED A GRAM OF HEROINE AND THEN I FELT BETTER.shorter time than that 3 days and there is no opiate what helps because the Suboxon or in my case the Naltrexone is a lot stronger.

I wish you a lot of love and Light, wisdom and I shall pray for you both...........with Kind Regards René from the Netherlands (Amsterdam)........................................

Oh Yeah dear Dana, the only advice I can give is to go to the website of ROBERTS TAPER PLAN (Use Google to find it) and you can Google; ''HOW TO GET OF SUBOXONE''! And maybe you better read the articles of DOCTOR STEVEN SCANLAN; one of the articles opens my eyes, the name of that article is; ''SUBOXONE, AN AMAZING DETOX TOOL, BUT AN MONSTER MAINTENANCE DRUG''!

[Dana0730]

That dr he went to was a quack and called him a liar when he said he was going through withdrawals and told him he couldn't treat him anymore. So he is back at the clinic & they are weaning him 10mg a week off of the methadone until he is completely off.

[gnarly_1]

How is your hubby doing now it has been a few days normally you need to be below 30mg to do the switch this doctor might not know that I dont know of any body that has switched at 100mg. hope things have gotten better for you good luck and God bless.....Gnarly

[SuboxoneReform]

Your husband is most likely suffering from precipitated withdrawl- methadones half-life is shorter than suboxone, though where he was on such a high dose it might take him a few extra days off ANY opiate. Also, with Suboxone, less is more- especially where the methadone is currently attached to his opiate receptors, the suboxone tries to enter these same pathways which are already locked in with methadone, therefore, your body is fighting to bounce the suboxone off the receptors.. I was taking 30mg of Methadone and waited seventy-two hours and I still felt awful after eight mgs (less is more, it would've been less severe perhaps if I had waited an extra day or taken less so my body didn't have to fight off the precip. Withdrawl. After a couple of days I felt better.. I kicked suboxone and I'm not trying to scare anyone away from it- however I do recommend trying to get off within six months. I am on day seventeen and I feel like I've been in a fog for five years and I was taking a very lose dose, 2mg... Everyone is different, just my personal experience. The methadone withdrawals are so painful, it's inhumane.. Where your husband was on such a high-dose, clonadine is a great prescription for opiate withdrawl, though it is very important to closely monitored by a doctor as it is a blood pressure medication, 0.1 is the typical dosage every twelve hours as needed for withdrawl.. As always, honesty is the best policy, be sure to consult your doctor ;)  you're husband is very lucky to have your support and you are an amazing person for helping him through this.. Best of luck to you both!  

[Thepoliceactstupidly]

You mentioned you can't afford the methadone clinic... What State are you in?? Obama Care sign up is Oct 1st.... get on your states medicaid through Obama care and medicaid will pay about 80% of what the clinic charges per day. If you didnt qualify for medicaid before,, you will now,, unless you just make way way way too much. Good Luck

[lillyl0ve]

Wow. I'm glad he is finally feeling better. But that doctor should be fired or licence taken away for him to give somebody suboxone on 100mg of methadone, that's insane. When i was on methadone my last dose was 19mg and I just left the program. I waited at least 1 week took a sub and i went into precipated w/d. Methadone is a strong demon and  it does stay in the fat cells. But best of luck.

[Dana0730]

He is feeling alot better now. Just having headaches so I pretty sure the worst is over. He goes back to the dr tomorrow.

[weaver71]

When I switched from 160mgs Mdone to sub, My doctor said I had to be 5 days off Mdone to induce. I was at 250mgs Mdone before that. I used norco 4 days and nothing for 24hrs and 8mgs sub was perfect. That being said, I think 5 days after his last Mdone be will feel better. 16mgs is too much, I thi I 4mgs would be enough for him, find a doc who knows about sub. Too much sub gives headaches and a weird feeling. I would wait a few days and induce again. Only my opinion, but being stuck on high dose sub is not progress.

[vicki595]

I think you need to find a different doctor to prescribe Sub.

Generally, a person tapers to 30mg or less of Methadone before transferring to Sub. Moderate wd's need to be present. It's not the length of time since the methadone dose that's the factor here, it's the symptoms being experienced. Look up COWS on Google. It's a scale that will explain when to transfer to Sub from Methadone. We can't give you dosage advice on this forum but do some research on your own.  Remember that methadone has a very long half life so to continue dosing with Sub may not be the thing to do...He needs some medical intervention...

[justtbe1]

Yea, listen to what digger says.  He's a sub professional!

[justtbe1]

Well, he has no place to go but up I guess.  after the precip withdrawal any withdrawal feels better.  I know for me,Granted, everyone is different but for me Continuing the subs after the precip. I never really got to the point where the subs were supposed to do the job they do.  I would take 24 mgs thinking it's gonna make me better but i would still feel like crap.  For me, something about the subs after the precip. never really got me back up on the horse.  Now, I've done the precip before, then stopped, got real sick, then took the subs and felt like a million bucks.  Suboxone is a weird drug.  It's different than any other opiate.  It's freek'n horrible to be honest.  I guess i would do what works for you or him.  I know when I start using again I always end up on Methadone or suboxone.  I run that for awhile until I start taking all kinds of stuff to try and kick in the done or subs more.  Than I crash,usually kicking CT.  Only to get clean and repeat the cycle.

[digger1976]

I've seen a lot of my friends go through this exact same thing, if you do want to continue with the Subs because of costs, insurance and such, it will take upto 9 days for him to level off fully. he will get a little better by day 3/4 and then a little better daily until the Meth leaves his system and the Subs can start to work as prescribed. I went through a week throughout the transition and that was from 30 or 40 I forget now, its all a horrible blur now, I only waited 24 hours before swapping and that was way to early, it throws you in a spin for sure!

He will get better, once he gets through the next day or two everything will start to get a little easier for him. 100ml is a very high dose to swap at, did the Dr suggest this, if so you need to find a different one fast, that's horrendous advice if so! Just tell him I've seen friends go through this and it does get easier, the initial spin only lasts for a few days then you start to get better. Please go easy with subs, drop down to 8 mgs as quick as possible, you truly don't need more than this. You actually feel better at 8 mgs than when you are higher, life runs more smooth. When you take more you start to get headaches and bad sweats, you just want to sleep all day so go easy with them.

I wish you and him all the best, good luck and stay strong!

[Dana0730]

He just took another one at 7:30 this morning and he said he doesn't feel it like he did the first one. So maybe it will get better

[justtbe1]

Iv'e done this and the only thing thats going to stop the precipitated withdrawals is more methadone or Heroin, something strong.  If he doesn't take any more suboxone he will ease back into regular withdrawal after 24-48 hrs.  2- 8mg films is way to much.  Suboxone kind has a ceiling on it.  You can only do so much where it does something for you.  Anything over a 8mg film is a waste.  If it were me and Sub was the only route I wouldn't take it until about day 8 or 9.  100 mg of the done is still pumping through you at day 3 -7 and maybe even later than that.  Methadone stores in the fat, kind of like marijuana.  So depending on his metabolism that crap can be in there for awhile.  Methadone to suboxone is real tricky.  Doctors might give you a time frame but it's different for everyone.  The safest way to make the switch is wait until your curled up in a ball kicking your legs uncontrollably, sweating, puking, puking out both ends, and shaking all over. Then he's ready for the subs.  I know thats not what he wants to hear but thats what needs to be done.  If he waits that long and takes the sub, in an hour, he'll be up walking around getting something to eat and all that good stuff.  

The buep. is so strong it blows all the other opiates off the receptors.  It's not the naloxone in the subs, it's the buep.  Once the buep starts to dissipate the methadone thats still in the system will attach back to the receptors.  

I just came off 120 a day of methadone.  Iv'e been clean for around 50 days.   I was in the hospital for 7 days I think and the doc said I was done with my detox.  It sounded good but I knew he was just ignorant of the reality of methadone.  I left and the real sickness kicked in around day 9 or ten.  I couldn't even lay in bed.  I had to just sit there and rock back in forth.  I was shaking all over.  Even my face muscles were twitching.  That would of been suboxone introduction time if that was the way I ws going.

I can't believe I actually know this stuff and most doctors don't know it.  Man, I must be a pretty bad Junky:)

[marycarmel]

I would call the doctor that prescribed the subs.  Someone has to be on call I would think.  I'm not sure what you can do to help the precipitated withdrawals.  Hopefully someone who's gone through this will come on soon.  Subs are really tricky and it's even trickier transitioning from methadone to subs.

[atthebeach]

If a doctor prescribed them he should have been advised or even at the doctors office during induction.
Switching from methadone to suboxone he would have to be under 30 mgs of meth