vicoprofen/hyrdocodone withdrawal

[lanas]

I came upon this cite this morning as I sit here waiting for a call from my doctor about refilling a vicoprofen prescription. I've never done anything like this before (a bulletin board). But I too want to get off this stuff but seem incapable. I have a job I love but that is very stressful. I get up at 4:45 am to work out of my home so that when I pick my daughter up from preschool at noon, I can have the day with her, unencumbered my other things (mainly my job). She is 4 and the joy of my life. Her father takes her to her preschool. I am currently taking about 4-5 per day for migraines; it really helps, but I also recognize that I am taking it now because I need it to exist well. I, like others, have taken Ultram. It certainly will keep the withdrawal symptoms of hydrocodone away, but only causes its own. I am just curious for any responses; I want to quit this, but I know if my doctor calls back and I have a prescription, I'll be at the pharmacy within 30 minutes... I guess this is a cry for help, so Help!

[Witchywoman]

Hi Lana,
Welcome to the forum, and to a place where you may be able to start to find the thread to getting your life back.

I too was addicted to vicoprofen, and with the help of this board, got clean.  I was taking a lot, due to pain from surgery, but it got out of control.

I have to say, I question them giving you vicoprofen for migraines. Hydrocodone *causes* rebound headaches. I had tons of headaches while on it, and used that as a reason to justify staying off it.  Vicoprofen is not a good first line med for headaches. If you have real bonafide vascular headaches, try imitrex or maxalt..they work very well and are not narcotic.

If you are having rebound headaches from painkillers, the only way to solve that is to get off the painkillers.  It sounds like you know you have an addiction, and I know all too well that familiar place of wanting to be free , but deep inside not really knowing if you are ready to stop using. It took me months of posting here before I finally was ready to stop, and once I made up my mind, I did it.

So...keep posting, know that it *can* be done. If you are ready, I'd suggest trying to taper down rather than go cold turkey.  I could not taper..did not have the discipline...so it was cold turkey for me. It is hard, no doubt about it, but it won't kill you, and it will give you your life back.

love,
WW

[lanas]

Thanks WW for the response--I also take Axert--it's a new drug in the same class as Imitrex.  It really works wonders, but I often find that it works best combined with the vicoprofen.  The thing is, the meds really do help my migraines, it's just that I know I don't have as many headaches as I am taking medication.  If I don't take it, I feel so sluggish and I can't get through my day well.  If I do, it is like I am wonder woman (well, not that great, but you get the picture).

[lanas]

oh, and I might add that the last I took was yesterday (1/30) at about 9:30 a.m.  So I am over 24 hours without; though I have taken 4 ultram.  But other than feeling sluggish, I feel okay... when is the nasty stuff going to start (if I choose NOT to go get that refill)?

[Phaedrus]

Everyone reacts differently but the general consensus seems to be that you'll start feeling lousy on day one, you'll feel worse on day two and day three will be the worst of it.  Once you get past day 3 you'll be on your way home.  You'll still feel sluggish and probably depressed and mild flu-like symptoms will linger, but by day 5 or 6 you should be through the tunnel.  Everyone agrees that it gets more difficult with each attempt so with that in mind, stay strong now to avoid more problems later.
If you've already made it more than 24 hours, you were able to sleep last night and you're generally feeling OK, you may be alright.  20-25 MG/Day is not that high a dosage relatively speaking, so if I were you I'd forget about the taper and keep going to see what happens.  If you make it through tonight OK then I don't think you've necessarily developed a strong physical dependance on the drug--psychologically is another matter.
Resist the cravings and keep yourself busy doing other things in order to avoid thinking about the pills.
If you do start experiencing flu-like symptoms and are unable to sleep, don't panic.  Just post your questions and a lot of folks who've been through this can share their experiences with you and help you get through it.
Caveat Emptor: I am not a professional and am speaking only from personal experience and from reading the experiences of many others.  If this really seems like it is out of control I'd take the advice Dr. Steve will eventually give you and seek the help of a qualified treatment facility.
But having read a zillion posts, I think you can do this.  Keep a journal of your thoughts and write like a maniac whenever you get a craving...remind yourself why you're quitting...remind yourself how much you love your family and how you're doing this for them.
We are with you and are here for you!

[1fortheroad]

quitting opiates is the hardest thing in the world for me, but i get more and more positive i can do it every time i read this board.  i know EXACTLY what you mean about feeling like "wonder woman" - day 3 and 4 are very difficult with the withdrawal for me.  i'm either a total wimp or different from most on this board in that my feelings of withdrawal seem to last for a couple weeks - no energy and really bad depression seem to be the main factors at that point...then i always cave in because i feel like i should be over the feeling terrible part.  since starting opiates, i've never made it past being totally thru withdrawal.  i have waited and waited for it to pass, but as i started getting toward the end of the second week and still felt terrible, i couldn't handle it.  has anyone else experienced feeling bad for more than a couple weeks?  thanks all and good luck!!

[pancake]

Hey everybody, I'm worried about the Ultram. Is it really as addictive as Hydocodone??  Will I get the same withdrawls? Its kept my withdrawls from the Hydrocodone at bay.  Does anybody have any ideas about dosage?  i thought i was on the right track. What about this detox "recipe" i keep hearing about.  thank you again for all the responses to my last comment. I cant tell you how much its appreciated. its snowing here...gotta go get the kids.

[AnnieS]

Hi everyone,  The withdrawal problem.  It never goes away totally. I will have 4 months in on Feb. 11th. I am feeling stronger and must say mentally and financially much better off but that monkey is always lurking. You have to pat yourself on the back each day and give yourself credit for getting through another day. remember that the longer you go the better it gets. The fatigue is the worst, I am feeling so much better working and not being so tired. I must say that I know how hard it is. I am suffering major depression because the man I love went back out after almost 60 clean days and I have had to let him go. It was affecting my sobriety. Making me so depressed that I thought, what the heck. I stoped myself and did the hardest thing I ever did. I walked out. He isn't doing so great but I can't make him quit. I need to stay sober, life is so much better when you feel good about yourself. Hang in there and and trust me , it does get better each day. I find a lot of support going to NA & AA mettings. I don't think I could do it without it. try to find a group and go to some meetings. Peace and Love to all, Annie

[Telby]

I truely believe that opiate addicts must go on vitamins and supplements to help repair the brain chemistry damage the drug use causes.  The best and most comprehensive suggestion was developed by Thomas and that is the receipe often discussed. It can be found on the ezboard New Addiction Forum, I put the address on a thread further down. To his credit he has helped alot of people and I suggest anyone detoxing try it. It does contain amino acids which is not good for people on anti-depressents (SRI's)such as prozac - produces too much seratonin (sp).  I am in the process of detoxing and this is what is helping me - A complete multi-vitamin, 2,000mg.Vit.C,4,000mg. L-Tyrosine (need to take Vit. B6 to make it work which can be in your multivitamin or as I take it in a 50mg. B Complex, and 5HTP for the depression.  I am also trying SAMe for the depression and moods.  Thomas strongly recommends using benzo's like valium, zanax, or ativan for the first 4-7 days and Imodiam for intestinal problems.   I am scared about Ultram as I have read horrible stories of addiction and scary withdrawals, I would recommend if you use it make it short and get away from it. Opiates rob us of chemicals in the brain which handle pain,pleasure and moods so it is a process getting back to feeling alright with the world. This can take months but I think the vitamins/supplements really help speed up the process.  I added the extra Vitamin C and find it is helping me detox faster but the basics come from Thomas who has spent much time researching.   Hope you all feel better soon, Telby

[lanas]

Well, I succumbed and got the refill (did anyone truly doubt that I would?).  But I have to say that I'm starting to think very differently about it now.  Phaedrus--you actually brought tears to me eyes--of course first time I've admitted to anyone about this problem I have.  Thank you for the support. I mean *thank you*.  I am going to try using this latest refill as a way to taper off and see what happens.  Concerning the Ultram--yes, I believe it is as addictive and has highly similar withdrawal symptoms.  I'm also going to try to get off the ambien I've been taking for about 2 years.  I feel I am in a drug cycle--the hydrocodone to stay "up" all day and the ambien to go down.  Yet because I have scripts for all of this and stay within therapuetic levels of dosages, I have been able to justify this "abuse."  Which is what it is.  Now if I can just learn how to stop.  This is what I just don't know how to do, but I have come to realize that I cannot do it alone.  Funny thing is, I'm always being told how strong a person I am.... ha!  When it comes to this, I'm as weak as they come.

[Jack Frost]

Hi Lanas,

You made the first step. You spoke those taboo words. "I am an addict" or "I have a drug problem". If you believe it you have a spark deep inside that will grow. At times it will flicker, at times it will shine. The spark will turn into a fire, a bright guiding light that will eventually give you the illumination you need to slay the dragon of hydrocodone. Be easy on yourself. Think of the spark as a new friend each mornig that is becoming stronger. Be completely honest with yourself. Whatever you really want you can have. It won't be easy but there is support here and in person and on other boards. You are not alone. We all suffer, some with drug addiction. Keep on the path.

Peace,

Jackfrost

[lanas]

Thank you.  Your support, and everyone else's, is astounding to me.  Of course, what I really need to do is tell my family.  They after all are the ones who will know what is happening.  It is easier to continue the abuse if those I've admitted my problem too are "anonymous."  But I agree it is a first step.  Every time I read these responses, I get tears in my eyes--so unlike me!  I will be on here, I am sure, as time goes on.  I have already taken only one of the pills today; normally I would have had 3 already.  Baby steps, isn't that what "they" say?  Yet I know I will backslide miserably; I already know it and it depresses me.

[pancake]

Hi Lanas, I too am new to this forum and I too struggle with the Vicoden problem.  I also "refilled" my script as I knew I would. I used Ultram for a day or so, but caved into the Vikes. Something has changed though: I dont enjoy it as much anymore. Hard to believe but true. I keep thinking that the next few pills will give me that great feeling again but it doesn't happen. Yes, its tolerance, but there is something else going on. Its very hard to admit you're an addict and risking everything that matters to you and then go around high as a kite and whistling a happy tune. As crazy as this sounds, i believe this is progress. Being high is not making everything "ok" anymore; that's what i wanted to begin with....for everything to be ok. I meant to say i related in many ways to the things you have to say...i didn't mean to ramble.  Good Luck

[Korg]

Greatings friends.   I've been away on business lately, but I've kept my tapering off process on track, with a few slips from time to time.   Today I made it through a full 24 hours without any.  It feels like a big victory considering the length of the trip and the difficulty it has been.  During one of my slip ups I actually slipped and fell.  Literaly.  I had a fall that seemed like slow motion.  It took forever.  As I lay there afterwards, I thought to myself, "How can I do this to myself?"  I wasn't hurt in anyway, but it sure helped me to recommit.  Right now I feel very tired, and I hurt alot.  But I'm over joyed at the past 24 hours of sucess.  I don't know about the next 24, but I'm on the road.  My love to all.

Korg

[Nod]

After ghosting for awhile and reading all the above on this thread I need to get this off my chest.. I AM A DRUG ADDICT.  I am addicted to hydro.  I've come to some conclussions:
1.  If I had an endless supply I don't think I could ever stop
2.  If #1 were true I be dead sooner rather than later
3.  I don't want to die sooner, but the way I feel now sometimes I wonder.  The depression and mental confussion are playing havic with my well being.  I'm in a hole.

Right now I'm scared to death.  I have tapperred all the way off for 3-4 weeks clean only to fall and fall harder than the last time. Right now 10-15 7.5's a day somethimes more. I have a great wife, 2 young kids, good job and its slowly starting to suffer.  I started 2 years ago for legit reasons and still need them for legit reasons but I have come to abuse them drastically.

Tomorrow, yes another tomorrow, I start a tapper again.  The schedule I set takes about 3 weeks. I slip here and there but am able to stick with it fairly well.  Thomas recipe helps very much.  The real problem is the reason I'm tapperring is because my next refill isn't for 3 weeks and I'll run out by then.  I know I need to do it to save myself instead of running my life by when the next refill is. I'm so tied of living like this. I'm so angry at the doc's who hurt me in the first place and then put me on hydro to help me deal with it.  

Bottom line is I am an addict and I want to get well.   I want to live, I want the confussion to stop. I want my life back. I
am scared.  Tomorrow starts a new end which will hopefully be a new begining.  Sorry for the long post, thanks for listening.
This board has got me this far, and I thank all of you, my fellow addicts. I think it will help me get thru.  Thanks and God Bless.  NOD

[Korg]

Greatings Dear Friends.

    It's now been 331/2 hours and still no hydrocodone.  My mind is feeling clearer then it has in a long time.  I don't even feel a craving.  My prayers to Jesus are working miricles. Thank you God.  This is can be done.  This can be done. This can be done.   Peace be with you all.  Hang in there all.  This can be  done.  Love to all.  Korg

[Jack Frost]

Korg, you and i are alike. i have a wonderful family and have esclating hydro and alchol use for the last 5 years. i also am tapering, it seems like I am always tapering. But i won't give up, i will continue towards the light. It can be done, many on this board have done it. I takes, in my opinion, more than a a technically adequate detox recipe, but that is a start. One thing I wanted to say. I was mad at my docs too and then I realized, most people don't have this addict gene that you and i do. Most people can take a few hydros when they are in pain and then get back with their lives - not you and me freind. So the docs, at least in my case, were just doing what they were supposed to do - offer pain relief. I have to assume responsiblity for turning medicine into elixir, for looking to get high other than just pain relief.

Good luck on you plan friend, I will be thinking of you,

JackFrost

[lanas]

Go Korg! Keep it up...  I went 29 hours the other day and then caved in--and I wasn't even feeling that bad; the craving is too strong.  I envy you and wish I could say now that I had been 72 hours...  so keep going!  You can do it you can do it you can do it...  at least that's what others tell me. Keep posting.
Pancake--I had read some of your other postings and thought your life sounds awfully similar to mine.  Don't you feel so guilty about your kids some times?  I mean, mine is my life and yet I am doing this to myself that affects my life with her.  Well, anyway, how are you doing?

[Korg]

Thank you dear friends for the encouragement.  

It's now 36 hours and counting.  It feels good to be this far along.  But I know I've got a long way to go.  But minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day.  Beating additiction is a journey.  Many of the pitfalls seem to be in the ways we kid ourselves.  What a long strange trip it's been.  But it's also one about learning.  About sucess and failure.  While I've had many failures, the worst failure would be to give up, and stop trying.  I'm feeling good today.  The withdraw isn't bad at all right now.  So I do feel the weaning has helped, when done correctly.  But I know how it can also be a trap. Keep on keeping on.  It is doable.

Love to all

Korg

[Korg]

I'm at 39 hours and counting.  Still no Hyrdro!!!!  The great thing is I feel wonderful!!  I'm starting to feel like MYSELF!!  WOW!!!  I've prayed to Jesus this time, and I feel He's made the differance.  I recommend it!!!  I did wean myself down this time, but I'm still amazed at how wonderful I feel so soon.  I've had that damn "little voice" try and tempt me a few times, but It's so far been easy to say "No".  And for the most part It hasn't entered my thoughts.  God is with me I know.  I'm doing it!!  Praise God, for braking the bondage!!  Dear friends, I pray that each and everyone of you will get to where I'm at.  God has replaced my suffering with Joy.  The joy of being free from these damn pills.  I know not to let my guard down.  Thank you friends for your support and encouragement.  Please keep it coming.  I hope the reports of my victories will help you also. Make up your mind, make a plan, and stick to it.  Then, PRAY, God's mercy is endless.  And He will help if you ask.  

May God Bless and keep all of you safe, and deliver you from evil.  Much love.

Korg

[Nod]

That GREAT Korg!  I'm inspired as I start my first day of tapper.  As of 8pm only have FIVE 7.5's in me when by this time of day would be 15.  Usually by now my eyes would be watering, have a massive head cold feeling, etc.. but hasn't hit YET.  I know it will.

Keep up the good work.  The hard part, as you know, is still ahead of you.   Take good care,  Not Nodding tonght, NOD

[Korg]

Thanks Nod!!  Good job!!  Your where I was a few months ago.  Weaning is hard and it has many traps as you may know.  But I've been where you are. Don't be affraid to fail.  Only fear quiting.  If you do slip up.  Try, try again.  My prayers are with you.  Remember, It's not a sprint, it's a marathon.  Don't go too fast, or too slow, but do what you can.  Not long ago I was taking 5 - 10/500's at a time, and then taking mouth fulls of crown royal as a chaser.  But little by little, hour by hour, day by day, I got here.... And I feel wonderful!!!  I'm starting to feel like "ME".  How wonderful it is.  Hang in there dear friend.  God loves you.  I love you. And others here love you.  You can do it. YOU CAN DO IT!!  Keep posting and let me know how your doing.  In 2 1/2 hours it will be 48 HOURS!!  WOW, God is wonderful.  Don't be afraid to ask for His help.  I'm asking Him to help you also.  I pray his peace and presence be with you on your journey.  Much love.

Korg

[Witchywoman]

Korg, congratulations on making it this far..keep going, you are about to get your life back!

I got clean with a mostly cold turkey week from hell, five months ago, with the support of this board.  I still get cravings, but I manage them one at a time, and celebrate my freedom from slavery to a pill with gratitude every day.

I would be interested in what your taper schedule was. I never was able to stick with a taper, but many do, and many on this board ask what a good taper plan is.  Perhaps you could share exactly what your taper schedule was, for those who are trying to set up a taper schedule that lets them continue to work etc.

keep reaching for freedom!!
love,
WW

[lanas]

This is fabulous!   So where are you at this point?  About to hit (already have?) 48 hours?  You sound like you're doing so well, so you may be home free if you can keep yourself focused.  Wow!  Just to know within your heart that you did this... that you are CAPABLE.  You hve proven you have tremendouse willpower that will help you through when you get the first ?next?) chance to do another pill...  You are stronger than it is; you've already proven that, so hang in there and don't forget it.  I went two years on Ultaram (after about 5 on hydrocodone), no hydrocodone and then in the past three months have gotten back onto to the hydro.  I know I am capable of staying away.  You have already by now proven yourself capable.  I envy you!   Keep having me envy you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Keep posting and letting us know how you're doing.  You're so well on your way to ultimate freedom....

[Korg]

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I'm writing as the 48 hour mark passes.  It feels so great!!  Surprizingly, my physical cravings aren't there this time.  I don't know why, except to give the credit to God for answering my prayers.  It's the only thing that can truely explain how well I'm doing right now.  I don't want another pill.  I don't feel the need for a pill.  It's so so wonderful.  

WW - I'll try as time goes on to explain my "formula" as it were, but It's difficult to explain all the day in day out sucesses and failures.  The big thing I feel is to not give up.  To give you some history as referance, I've been on Vicoden for over 3 years now. In that time I did not "abuse", I feel until around september or october of 2001.  How I started abusing,  I'm not completely sure.  It's like I woke up one day, and found I was taking 10 to 12 10/500's aday.   My script is for 4 10/500's a day.  I'm on them for chronic pain, due to a back injury.  

Once I realized what I was doing, I tried to just stop for a while, which I had done at times I wasn't abusing, just to give my system a rest.  I'd have additional pain to deal with, but I think it was needed.   But I couldn't stop like I had done.  I tried various combinations to stop.  I'll just take one, I thought.  But that wasn't enough.  So I'd still end up taking 4 or 5 at a time.  The one at a time thing only seemed to make the cravings worse.  Then I went to taking just 2 at a time.  That seemed to work for a while, and I got down fairly quickly to 6 a day.  I also started keeping a log of how many I took and what the day and time were.

After about a month or so, I was able to get down to 4 a day, but still 2 at a time. All during this weaning process I still felt like **** all the time.  For some of this period I would have moments of feeling "fair", but never felt "good"  or like "Myself".  There were times I would get tired of feeling like **** and would take more then my plan was.  Just to get a break.  But as time moved on and I adjusted to less and less.  It would take less to get me to a semi-normal condition.  But I've never given up.  I've given in, but never given up.  

After one of my receint "giving in" to the cravings, I ended up taking 5 within an hours time, and shortly thereafter had a fall in my home.  It was a very strange thing.  It seemed to take minutes to just fall down.  Like some sort of strange slow motion effect.  But it's lingering effect on me has been profound.  

As I lay there on the floor I looked up to God and asked for His help in beating this addiction once and for all.  I went to bed that night determined not to take any at all the next day.  Even if I had to sleep the whole day.  Which is pretty much what I did.  I hurt, I was restless, I made sure to eat, but would go right back to bed.  Then I came to the point where I made it past the first 24 hours.  Praise God!!  I made It!  

So then came the next day.   I'd keep saying.  I can do this, I made it 24 hours, lets go for 36 ect.  It's now past 48 hours and I'm feeling really great.  

I'm the first to admit, whatever the "secret" is, didn't come from me.  I give God all the credit, and thank Him for it all.

I hope this helps.  May God show you how to get to where I am now.  All my love.

korg