withdraw while still on the drug (Valium)

[troyxx]

I have been taking valuim for 6 years...started taking only 6mg and now only taking 8mg per day. It was prescribed to me 6 years ago by a neuro because I had a slipped disc in my lower back and was having muscle spasms.

Now I know I am addicted to it, and I have brought the matter up to my PCP and he told me that the dose is low and that I should stay on it because I some musclular-skelatal (spelling) problems in my whole back and neck, BUT if I want to stop taking it, I should slowly wean myself off of it. I have no other know medical problems besides what is stated above.

Now....I get periods of tremors and shakes that last for a few hours and cause me to get into a state of anxiety. They start usually just before I retire...I will be reading a book and I suddenly feel 'off' and can't read anymore and by time I get to bed, I feel like I am about to explode into shakes, yet I do not feel cold and my heart rate is stable and my breathing (though I become very aware of my breathing) is normal. This is not an anxiety attack, because I use to have them when I was young and they are very different. Is this a symptom of withdraw from the valium though I am taking it still?

[Thomas03]

Your tolerance has undoubtedly increased over 6 years. It's possible you could experience these symptoms after you've gone a while between doses. Valium, however, is the benzo of choice for tapering safely. After 6 years, I'd take at least 6 months to taper off of Valium. Even a year would be good. Getting off benzos is a long, careful process.

Google search on Dr Heather Ashton for the best info on benzo addiction. Good luck.

Thomas

[4mygirls]

About 4 years ago a doc put me on Valium for anxiety attacks.  I never really took it.  I'd say out of maybe 600 pills I took maybe 20 the rest were stolen from me.  I never new that it was real addicting and as for me I never really like the feeling it gave me.  But what I know now about it, I am glad and thankful that I never took that much.  Almost everyone I know is addicted to it,  even the xanax I get.  I have to hide them.  I don't take much and don't get much.  But If I leave them out they are gone.  And Its not me takeing them.  I have a family that is addicted to painpills,  nerve pills,  muscle relaxers. You name it they take it.  I am not glad that I got addicted to painpills, but I am glad thats all I did get addicted too.  I heard that nerve pills are very hard to come off of,  and its a long hard process to do.  I am sorry I don't have the awnsers for you.  But On the other hand from what Ive heard I am very glad I don't have the awnsers.  Take it slow and get differant opinions.  If you really want off of them,  there is someone out there that will help you taper,  until you are off of them completely.  Good luck to you.  Hope everyone is doing good.  Day 7 here and still going.
        Gina

[Bodymechanic]

Your symptoms sound exactly like anziety.  The thing about a valium withdrawal is that it feels exactly like severe anziety.  Have you started to wean off the valium? Can you sleep?  A universal symptom of addiction is sleeplessness. Obviously, just because you can't sleep does not mean you are having withdrawal but it is a good bet. When you feel these symptoms try a small dose of valium.  If your symptoms go away in 20 minutes then you know it is the addiction. Consider slowing the detox.

[feelsobad]

I have to agree with Bodymechanic. Because that's basically what my doc said about being on Ativan log term too. The dosage has to be increased as tolerance builds or you will get re-bound anxiety attacks, much the same with re-bound headaches from meds used to treat them. When you feel an attack coming on take one and see if you get any relief. If you do you might have to get your dosage increased.

Hope you get it figured out...
take care
feelsobad

[dancinginthedark]

Well, gee I must be the Queen of cross-pollination! Do I get some kind of award? :-) Opiates 31 days behind me, fiorinal decreasing but valium....OH, I DO know that one.

You know that book, "I'm Dancing as Fast as I Can?" (brilliant book about valium addiction).  I used to say, "Yeah, well, I danced faster."

Originally went on it in '96 following a car acident where I had hit my head & did damage to my vestibular system.  After almost a yr. in full throttle spin cycle mode I was put on valium & it was like the sea parted!  1st bit of relief from a nightmare I can't even articulate.  Idiot doc started me on 60 mg. a day (I'm 105 lbs.)  Anyway, I knew in the back of my head it was addictive but I was back working & felt fine, no more vomiting 10+ x a day, spinning, falling, etc.  Eventually, was up to 90 because I needed more to keep symptoms under control.  In re-writing a scrip he asked me if I was selling it to which I replied.  "Hell no.  I'm taking it!"  I honestly didn't think I was doing anything wrong.

Moved back home & my GP *freaked* & sent me to an addiction doc & I decided his way would take too long & I'd just quit cold turkey.  I figured I'd spend a few days rolling about on the bathroom floor, sweating, vomiting etc., just like in the movies.  I knew I was tough & could handle that.  Ahem....

My GP gave me phenobarbital to prevent seizures & didn't tell me I was nuttier than a fruitcake, or what to expect.  I cannot articulate - and I'm a writer - the hell I went thru but I never wanted to use it again, just come thru it.  I did.  4 mos. later while on a biz trip, the vertigo came back slowly at first & then...I shudder again.  I later found out this is because valium stays in your system for at least 3 mos. & with my dosage...who knows?  Thus, the vertigo was abated because I had so much rolling around in my system.

An addiction doc, ENT & my GP pow wowed & agreed to put me on 20 mg. a day as I was almost suicidal & if I needed more, tough.

I had no prob staying on 5 x 4 & took them equally distrib throughout day.  However, I oft tried to skip PM dose & I'd feel bloody weird a day or so later.  Not a good plan.

Anyhoo, when I felt certain my vertigo days were behind me I consulted with our Detox place & they sent me a huge document on going off them.  Wow.  Scary stuff & explained much.  Their suggestion & what worked for me *very* well was to cut 1/8th of a dose every 6 wks.  I had virtually *no* angst during this decrease & only a few wks. of rebound insomnia when it was finally over. It took me about 8+ mos.

The only other x I was on it was right after the accident, about 10 mos. before I went on mega dose.  Took 15 mg. a day for 3 wks. & just stopped.  Looking back, I know I had withdrawal...spacey, disoriented, sweating, shaking & screaming at my parents ov er nothing.  I know you can become addicted to it very quickly & the longer you've been on it, the more is swimming about every cell in your body.  

PLEASE go slow & as someone else suggested, your tolerance has undoubtedly decreased/incr?  (You need more to get the same effect).  Set a pgm such as I did & DO NOT think you're being a weakling.  Benzo withdrawal is an entirely diff. ball of wax & I'd also suggest you find out what you can about some of the symptoms assoc. with this class of drug's withdrawal.  

IT CAN BE DONE!  I've been off it over 2 yrs. & no vertigo (!) & I never think about it.

Good luck!  

Dancing in the Dark

[recentlyengaged]

I just wanted to thank everyone who reads my message and gave me advice.  Having a support group like you all helps so much because there is NO ONE in this world who I could talk to about this.  My girlfriend who I just became engaged to would dump me in a second and I am not going to let getting high ruin my life.  It is not worth the risk of me telling her.  I can beat this and beat it soon, as I am starting now.  Today I got rid of my oxys and am going to taper off with morphine sulfate pills.  these are soft orange long ovular pills that say 60 on one side and E3559 on the other.  Anyone know anything about them?  I have used them rather frequently when oxys arent around.  They give me much much less of a high so if i cut one in half and swallow half a pill twice a day (less than I have ever done before, and I used to snort, now I will swallow), I will keep this up for four days.  On the fifth - eigth day I will cut the pill in four and take a fourth of a pill twice a day.  I have vitamins and tyrosine and klonopin for anxiety.  In the past these have been easier withdrawals for me.  I think I can beat this guys!!! Any thoughts????  Thank you so much.  I am going to post daily and let you all know my progress.  My fiance is the most important thing in the world to me and I wanna be a dad some day.  And also, One of you told me I have to do it for myself?  I know, I am because I know I deserve better than the path these will lead me down.  I have a good job fresh out of college, a great family and I am an avid bodybuilder and sports fanatic.  Thank you alll ssssssoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much.  I am sooo excited about this and that I found you guys.  This forum and my engagement are going to be what I need to stop this route to destruction!!

[freezing]

I have been prescribed valium since 1988, up to 20mg/day.  In fifteen years of use, I have never suffered what you described, nor any ill effect from them.  I change/lower my intake and stop taking them with no symptoms at all.  I know we are all different.  I am extremely addicted to opiates (for the past two years) and my tolerance to the opiates skyrockets almost daily (or I suffer daily opiate w/d's), but not to diazepam.  The one time my valium intake increased, was when I was prescribed methadone.  As soon as I detoxed off methadone, my valium intake went from about 25mg/day down to zero to five mg/day.  My addiction doctor had me increase the valium to see if that was causing me problems, but it did not help.  Are you on other meds that could be causing your symptoms?  I really don't think what you are describing is from the slow taper of valium at your level.  I am sure you/your doctor tried going back up on the valium to test.  What did you experience then?  Best wishes to you.  Keep us posted.

[lisabet]

Hi my friend - I'm glad to see you back posting and helping others.  But I want to know - "How how you"?  The last I heard, you were tapering your Bup - how are you doing with that?  Thinking of you. Love, Lisabet

[kilo]

Sounds like you got a plan! I'm not to sure how well your taper will help you, but it's worth the shot. I'll give you a little insight I experienced today. This is my 4th attempt in 18 months to come clean. Prior attempts were always filled with thoughts of relapsing, then believing those thoughts, then acting on them. Always an excuse, another justification, a lie! I use to have pain, but my habit was my escape and not for pain. For some reason, this time it's different, real different. I'm almost into day 6 this time around and I truly feel great. Oh I crave the **** when I think about it, but this time I think more about other things. I chip away at those cravings with these thoughts...my future, a wife who loves me without condition, a smart beautiful 10 year old daughter and we are about to adopt a baby boy from Central America. I finally put my life, my wife's love, and my family's future first.

Why now, why this time? I don't know why. I have embarked on a mission to teach my mind that my life and my family is more important than a short-lived warm and fuzzy feeling that turns on you 6-12 hours later demanding more or else. I caught myself being goofy and laughing with my wife tonight...my mind screamed back at me and said don't stop, go on this is how it use to be or I'll give something else to think about....

I've read it a thousand times on this forum and I truly believe that this time it STUCK! "You have to want to change for yourself"  Finally the 2x4 hit me right between the eyes.

When I read your first post a few days back, the first thought that came to mind was of this guy who had life by the balls! You know...love, soon to be husband, a great job, a loving family, a future father. Sound like someone you know? My second thought was what a shame...he's got cancer. You feel that lump? "Hell it's probably nothing, it'll go away or it's a benign thing". "**** I'm young I got nothing to worry about". But the news isn't all bad, actually it's quite promising. Oh it's cancer all right...but it's a small lesion, it hasn't spread yet, it's a surgeon's dream (small incision and not to much pain for the patient). A little chemo, a little discomfort, and in no time I'm back grabbing life by the conjones.

Looks to me like someone is going to have that lump looked at. You are smart to catch it early. Withdrawal will be uncomfortable, but the worse part is over in a few short days. You may have to spend a few months burying those demons into the dark recesses of your mind, so that they don't surface again. But hell, it beats having cancer!   Peace

Kilo

[dancinginthedark]

Kilo,

I thought you wrote a most inspiring missive & clearly you are impassioned & determined.  Oh, and lest I forget, your brain & passion is in the right place.

But I must respectfully take issuance on 2 pts. you made.  Pls understand:  I may be *very* wrong but I do have quite a history...oh indeedydoo ;-)

1)  When you urged Engaged to bury those demons, I took that to mean put them away, presumably in the back of your mind.  I think & my exper. - and know from many addicts - burying those demons is an enormous mistake.  IMHO, & what lead to my 31 day success (1st time I've gone beyond a day or 2 in oh, 10 yrs.!) you must first face them & then deal with them.  You bury feelings & either they start to rot & send most untoward fumes through the surface or they stay put & one rots within.  You can still do everything you said but at the same time - preferably first - deal with the demons, most espec. the honest truth as to why you use at all.  (I wrote about this in a previous missive on this thread).

2)  Kilo, pls don't take offense here because none is meant.  I mean this most sincerely.  You indicated you are on your 4th attempt in 18 mos. & now on Day 6.  You could well be ultra-extraordinary but I can only go with the norm but do you truly believe this monkey is really off your back?  I know the buzz I had on my 4-5th day off codeine (LOTS) & one would have needed a fish-hook to peel me off the ceiling.  And then malaise, rebounds, sweats,insomnia came at me with a vengeance.  Detox is diff. for all of us but you are clearly a fighter & I've no doubt you'll prevail as will Engaged.  

However, I felt it behooved me to be honest & I do hope I have not offended you as that was absolutely not my intention.

Well, you 2 have inspired me & made me feel like an under-achiever & I'm on Day 32!  While I too had that fire  in my belly, there has been many a slip 'tween the cup and the lip.  (Not that kind, just doubts as to how I can deal with the ongoing withdrawal & malaise).

Best to you both & keep us posted even if you fall back into your pill bottle.  We're here to support one another & as to this missive, that was my sincere intention.

GO GUYS!

Dancing in the Dark

[kilo]

I never said that the insomnia died down! So here I am bouncing between my IBM and the History Channel at 2:30 AM. One of the few pleasures of life I truly believe is engaging conversation. I enjoyed reading your response to my somewhat upbeat, although maybe premature, litany of my success to this point. I take no offense what so ever.

Maybe my choice of words were poorly chosen. The demons I spoke of were cravings. I speak for myself in believing that drug addiction is a learned pattern of behavior. There is much debate over that question, but there is no doubt that once the brain has learned something it does not forget (unless of course you choice a labotomy :) This is especially true for chemical imprints and all the neurology that goes with it. Cravings may subside over time, but the chemical imprint is always there. That is why many addicts become clean for several years, even decades and fall back into the same or another addiction. You are dead on about the feelings and reasons for ones behavior. Frank open discussion about ones personality, feelings and fears is what makes this forum a success. I was hoping to convey to "recently engaged" (this boy must be in love...what a great nickname :)) that his cravings should just be a distant memory in a matter of months. But, I feel that I will always be on guard, concerning addiction, for the rest of my life.

As to your second point...the monkey isn't on my back, it's sutured in place and firmly planted. I'm hoping and praying that if I don't feed that little *******, he'll get hungry and remove the sutures and look elsewhere. I'm not ultra-extraordinary and you my friend are not, by any standard, an under-achiever as you say. I have never made it to day 32! You have traveled to a point where only others dream of being. Although I feel fine right now, I have no illusions about the next 30 - 60 days. A starving monkey can really ruin your day. Your words of encouragement and honesty does more to strengthen my resolve than you will ever know.

I love your humor. I truly appreciate and need as all of us do your honesty and straight forwardness. My God look what time it is. Excuse me bartender, could I have a 6 pack of restful sleep.
  Peace

Kilo

[hippy]

the rest will come in time.

its a great time to get clean in the spring.
as addicts we chance what we use, we go from drugs to
food, or relationships or shopping ,gambling, religion
in a false senses.
we get better by getting out of ourselves and helping others
selfcenteredness is our biggest problem.
at some piont we have to get the focus off ourselves and on a higherpower.
killing people in warfare is a learned behaviour,
and when the war is over ya go back to normal
at least most do, addicts would have a problem.
we don't stop untill there is some kind of tradgy.

peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!hippy

[kilo]

Thanks! Some people say that misery loves company. I find this forum is quite the opposite. But because the company shares in the misery, we all have so much to gain. I sense by your writing that you have traveled down a distinct path in life. I hope it hasn't been all uphill for you my friend.
Thanks again Hip.  Peace

Kilo

[dancinginthedark]

Hey Team,

Wanted to apprise y'all of a website I was steered to some time ago that enables you to check ALL interactions, including even good ol' aspirin.

Web site is:  http://www.aidsmeds.com/Interactions.asp

I initially thought it was aid (ing) meds & once on the site I saw it was for aids patients & thought, well, they won't be able to help me with the plethora I take every day as most are of the garden variety & that which I need to do that living thing!

My initial impression was very wrong.  I urge you to check it out becausr the info, includes some food interac.  Grapefruit juice for florinef (I take for low bl. pressure)?  Nice my specialist, noted as one of the top in North American never mentioned that one to me.  As to the rest, well, it was indeed enlightening.  I was in no way surpriused  by the CNS depressant, interactions, et al from "the pills" but it was the rest of it that dang near blew my pantyhose off!

I noted this AM that someone inquired about the Benadryl & Traza...?  combo & thought how many x I'd seen those type of questions.  And I've only been aboard your sturdy ship a mo. or so!

I urge you all to check it out.  If my anti depressants, synthroid, low bl. pressure meds et ALL are there, y'all just check out your interactions if you are concerned.  BTW; they even have herbs 'n stuff included.  

Kilo....your post this AM made ma laugh so loud I had to assume the supine & elevate my feet. You are positively insufferable & I shall surely get back to you.

I already know you are into fast fwd mode twd success so I mis-read much of your post & with a piece on Texas still waitin', I'd best get to it...HUH?  (Hey, I spent 10 yrs. in the US & may I add, the best yrs. of my life?).  

As to insomnia sailor, you think you're going to get my pity?
;-)  I did an all-nighter & I am still going thru this bizarre insomnia & malaise which stuns me.  

All that aside, you & Engaged Go!  Both your attitudes are so inspiring & we're rootin' for ya.  (Pardon, into Texasese).

As to the rest of your missive, I'll get back to you in a jiffy because I don't *think* I entirely read you wrong.  But your passion & heart are in the right place & that is what will drive your pony back to the barn.

BTW; can someone tell me why we seemed to receive unlimited postings yesterday & when I saw there was 1 question this AM (6AM), I thought I'd send off the interaction info. 5:30 PST it was closed to questions...unless I want to pay.  Yeah, for a NON-profit organiz. they sure have a lot of new advertisers & supporters, beaucoup pop-ups, links to drug co,'s & the previous sponsors are rather august to say the least.

Alright back to the south.  Y'all take reeel good care of yerself, ya hear?

Best,

Dancing in the Dark

[Oxyclean]

Good for you! That was the hardest thing flushing those Oxys! I swear they were calling my name from the pill bottle! LOL! You are headed in the right direction. I hope that taper works for you. Everyones body is different. For me, I would have tapered from the Oxys and then switched to the shorter acting morphine tabs. My body needed the longer acting pills. I could feel when the meds slowed down. Keep up the good work... let me know how you are doing, you are not alone!

[Thomas03]

don't use the L-Tyrosine until you're done with the opiates. If used too soon, L-Tyrosine can increase anxiety.

I've never seen the orange morphine sulfate pills, but they sounds yummy from here!

Thomas

[Thomas03]

Where are you from and where in the US did you live? Are you English?

Thomas

[theGolden1]

Is ambien a benzo? I thought you might know. I was reading  Ms.Ashton's website and she had ambien listed. I want to get off ambien because I have been sleepwalking everynight. I go to the icebox and start eating ... I wake up with chocolate donuts in my bed. It's awful! I'm so embarassed ... what about Sonata?
I appreciate your help ... I wish I could sleep....  z z z z

[Thomas03]

Ambien is not a benzo but interacts with some of the same receptors in the brain. I would infer from this that some of Ambien's effects will be similar to that of a benzo.

Rxlist: "While zolpidem [Ambien] is a hypnotic agent with a chemical structure unrelated to benzodiazepines, barbiturates, or other drugs with known hypnotic properties, it interacts with a GABA-BZ receptor complex and shares some of the pharmacological properties of the benzodiazepines. In contrast to the benzodiazepines, which non-selectively bind to and activate all three omega receptor subtypes, zolpidem in vitro binds the (w1) receptor preferentially."

Even though I'm coming out of a two-year benzo habit and still have a wopping tolerance to them, Ambien dropped me when I tried it. I suspect that with repeated use I'd become tolerant of Ambien and probably go for those chocolate donuts, too. I have been known to raid the donuts at midnight, but there's never anything left of them in the morning. Your experience does sound like something I'd do on benzos.

Sonata, another non-benzo, is an interesting drug. Because of the way it works, I'd choose it for sleep over anything else. It puts you to sleep within 15 or 20 minutes. And I mean, you should be tucked in and ready to go because you're goin'. Sonata then leaves the body within 2 or 3 hours, which means no morning drug hangover. The only thing is, if you wake frequently throughout the night, you may not get back to sleep. In my limited experience with Sonata, I could wake in the night and still felt the drug putting me back to sleep.

Thomas

[cannedheels]

What about restoril? I've been taking it since 1985. It doesn't really work anymore for me.Do you think Sonata would be better for me?
Thanks,
cannedheels

[Thomas03]

Restoril is a benzodiazepine sleeping pill. Your doc might see Sonata as an improvement over using a benzo, but you may need to wean off the Restoril because it's a benzo and you've been using it for so many years. I have no direct experience with sleeper benzos. I always used benzos for detox or just getting ****** up (usually the latter purpose). Good luck. Feel better.

Thomas

[dancinginthedark]

Hey Thomas,

Well, I can speak English! And rite it reel good two.  :)  One grandfather was the last immigrant from the big isle, everyone else came ageneration before, or sooner.  Lots of British, and a hodgepogdgemishmash of Scottish, Irish, French & Norwegian.  Oh, and American of course.  My grandfather was from Georgia, came up to Montreal to get away from the family & married my gradmother.  So, am I English?  You tell me!  Oh, my passport indicates I'm Canadian.

Whilst residing  in the great ol; U.S. of A, I was in Silicon Valley (Ca) for 8 yrs. During that time, my work enabled me to tvl all over the U.S. & spend enormous amts. of time in all the popular convention cities, like Boston (my absolute fave #1 choice) NY, Chicago, New Orleans, everywhere in Fla., Calif., etc. etc.  Spent 2 yrs. in the San Juan Islands of Washington State playing Henry David Thoreau.  Wee country cottage, 2 cats, a houseful of books and a heart full of pain.

No wonder I was chowing down Fiorinal!  

I'd intended to get my Green Card & attorney said I was a "shoo in" but a bad car accident & home on the other side of the border was the only option.  I could probably still go back but methinks the INS has bigger fish to fry than me!

We've all jumped ship to ****.  Its' great, you should try it!  You can write me at ***@**** & tell me *your* lineage, suh!

Ciao for now,

Dancing in the Dark

[med closet mom]

Hi I am a 40 something Mom with a wonderful life.  Loving husband who is an engineer and also holds public office in our small county,  I have 4 great children and am also blessed to be a stay at home mom.  I live productive life in a small town busy volunteering in schools and church and have struggled with lupus and fibromyalgia for 10 years.  I now fear I am addicted to vicoprofen given to me by neurologist for headaches stemming from fibro.  I also take valium 15 mg. nightly for help sleeping and muscle spasams.  I have not had problems if I don't take valium for days.  But vicoprofen is another problem.  I have been taking 200 mg. w/7.5 mg of vicodin 2-3 x a day for about a year.  Now I need to take two at a time 2-3x a day to receive relief from pain and miss the euphoric feeling I used to have at just taking one.  I have decided to quit on my own by tapering off.  I can't talk to anyone or seek professional help because my friends and family would be shocked to find out about my addiction and I am afraid I would lose their love and trust.  I am on day two of cutting pills in half-Taking one half in the morning and the other at night and supplementing with 800 mg of motrin for the incessent aching of muscles and joints.  I feel like I want to sleep all the time and have trouble just doing dishes and laundry much less being a great mom and wife.  I used to enjoy going to the gym, playing the piano, reading and now I feel so hopeless.  I guess it is depression. Will this feeling pass?  I am NOT suicidal, just wish I could enjoy life.  I would appreciated your help.

[g.g.]

It does get better in time!Thats the key word TIME!I know what you mean about not letting people know!But if you can find just one person it helps alot!I have to go to work now but will respond more when I come home at 4:00pm.Just wanted to welcome you!!           g.g.