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Cirrhosis and alcohol consumption
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Cirrhosis and alcohol consumption

I know that I'm an alcoholic, and have been since I was 10.  When I was a kid, I used to get into my mom's wine and beer, and later got with friends with the same interests and started developing my drinking career.  Over the years, I have been successful in my drinking career (as well as my scientific and family life) BUT the difference now is that I can't stop.  I know about AA and have been to rehab and all that stuff.  I have cirrhosis and continue to drink approx. 3 fifths a day of vodka of course.  Insanity, absolute insanity and I know it.  I have been reading the Big Book (@ page 70 right now) and I think I am starting to see something I never saw before ( I'm  feeling remorse and shame ).  I got 3 children in college, and three teens at home, and I don't want them to bury me, like I had to do with my dad and brother.

Any suggestions, please??????

Tony
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I would go and see your doctor, tell him what you have told us and have him help you get thru the detox.  If you dont stop this insanity Tony your kids will be burying you....that is guaranteed.  You dont have to be a prisoner to the bottle anymore.......

As for AA.......it works if YOU work it~~
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GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZZZ!u've got cirrohsis and drink 3 5ths a day?42 proof or 80 some proof?ur liver will give out REAL soon...plus the pancreas can't take this either!my friend sarah gave u good advice.......i hope u follow it!
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Hi Tony, I also have cirrhosis (end stage). Diagnosed 03/23/10. 38 yrs old. I am really concerned about you. I know the concerquences all to well if you dont quit. Can you tell me you choose death instead of sobriety? You have to stop drinking imediatley or you will die and I mean soon. 70% of people will die within 5 years after being diagnosed with cirrhosis. Dont you want to be in that 30% that push past that?

Cirrhosis is not a death sentence. You can live another twenty years with the right mind set diet and exercise. The very first thing you must do is stop drinking alcohol of any kind and after that the rest is easy. There can never be an exception and allow yourself to drink. Not even at your daughters wedding! You can have a second chance at your life and show the people you care about what a good person you really are. Do it for them Tony.

I just finished writing someone and I was telling them how much more richer and enjoyable my life has been since I stopped drinking. Though I miss drinking I would never go back to living my life in that drunken haze day after day not really feeling what is real Or giving a **** about what else is going on.

We as alcoholics are very selfish people in the sence that we will sacrifice so much from our family's in order to afford our next drunk. It's not just about the money either its about all the times you missed a school event or didnt take them to do this or that so you could drink. Dont think back and say they had a good childhood, think back and think about all the things you could've done to make it better.

Drink and die my friend there no way out of it. Believe me I have searched and searched for any other options but it just is what it is! I really wish you the best and I hope you find the strength that you need. If I can do then you can do it! We all did it, your turn!

Randy
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Hi Randy,

I am at a loss right now with a loved one I fear has cirrhosis but refuses to seek treatment. This is my husband I speak of and I was hoping for some advice to get him to decide he needs help. He is drinking around 14 of the 1.00 bottles of 99 proof grape drinks DAILY!!! He admits he is an alcoholic and that he needs to stop, but that he has too much pride to go into the hospital for detox.
In February this year he decided to go see the doctor and had blood work done at that time. The results of the blood work showed that total bilirubin levels were elevated possibly due to early cirrhosis and his liver was mildly inflamed. Looking into his eyes earlier this afternoon I noticed they look yellow, jaundice I fear. I expressed my concerns for him and plead for him to let me make him an appointment to be seen regarding this, but he refuses.
Can anyone please think of possible approaches I can take in order to get him to realize he can not beat this on his own and MUST seek treatment immediately!
He is only 39 years old and we have 6 children ranging in age from 16 to 3! I do not want to lose him I love him so much and our children I cannot imagine having them see him being buried.
I have tried every verbal route possible and just do not know what else to do.
Fawn
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Hi Fawn,
I am sorry you and your husband are having to go through this. Cirrhosis is a tough disease to go through. If he had elevated bilirubin 6 months ago then it's probably a safe bet that it is worse now. Jaundice is very possible. I wonder what his other numbers read such as ALT/AST  and GGT. I would imagine these numbers were probably elevated as well.
Fawn everything I just mentioned to Tony fits here as well. Drink and die. That’s just the way it is once the liver is pushed too far. He has too much pride to go to the hospital for detox but how is he going to feel when he reaches a stage when the pain in his abdomen is so severe that he's begging to go to the hospital then at which point he will be struggling for his life.
Many people here will tell you to quit drinking you should go through detox that is because they are thinking about the safety of your husband. They may also recommend AA. They are completely right. That is the best way to do it. But... I can tell you that after diagnosis for me I went from 23 beers a day and in over a period of 3 days completely stopped. i made huge strides with how much I was tapering back. I was anxious to save my life and start my new life. A sober one. Withdrawal symptoms can become very dangerous in rare cases terminal. I allowed myself as much time needed to keep tapering back as long as it was at least cutting back by one every night. This was the safest way I could think of to do it on my own.
I am 39 the same age as your husband right now. I sure hope that he can find the strength to cut back for his family . To continue drinking at this point is being very selfish! Usually I would say that "you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink" well bull ****! Whoop his *** and he will! ha ha Let your husband know that tomorrow morning he is going to the doctor like it or not! there are plenty of doctors that welcome walk-ins. Let him know he will not be taking this BS way out and leaving you to raise his kids! You expect more from him and his kids deserve more. You love him and because he loves every one of you he is going to do the right thing tomorrow. It's time to stop all of this before he gets hurt even more. Before your hurting more. You’re a very good woman Fawn because ever woman that loves her husband enough to look for help like you have and also is the mother of 6 kids is a very giving person. You are the glue that holds your family together. Print this, let him read if you think it will help. It's makes for a pretty rough day the day your diagnosed with cirrhosis because it never goes away. God Bless you all. I wish you the very best.
Randy
P.S. please note that no harm was done to a horse in the writing of this Message.
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Hey Tony since I'm here I'm wondering how things are going for you? It's been 21 days now and I sure hope you are doing well! I hope to hear from you when you have a chance.

Randy
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Thank you for you response, I appreciate it. I will print this for him to read and hope it will help. I have told him "you are going to the doctor regardless of whether you want to or not" I have told him that his health is so important to me and how much I live him. The appts. come and go he is stubborn and will not budge. The receptionist at our doctor office said to me that they all understand the circumstance when I apologized on the phone for his not going. Again thank you for your response as I said I am just so lost on what else I can do and am afraid that I am going to lose him over this.
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Fawn I can sure imagine your frustration. My wife must have went through it so many times with me too. I thank god she never gave up on me. I was just determined that no matter what the doctor said I was going to get away with drinking. I heard it all from doctors before I was diagnosed. I was even told a couple of times that if i didnt stop drinking I was going to die. My thought to that was well so are you. Stupid stupid stupid. I just loved my drink so much that I actually waited to the point of no return "cirrhosis" to stop drinking. It was then that I realized the doctors are right, I am wrong.

I would do almost anything to change it. I try very hard to learn as much as I can so that I may continue to be here for my wife and my girls! The thought of dying no longer scares me but the thought of not being here for them is something I cant ever forgive myself for. All because of a drink! It's a pathetic existence, I will never go back to. Perhaps it's why they call it a disease.

I'm not always real good with this type of advice but I have seen many others that know and have amazing advice. Here in this group and also in "Living with an alcoholic".

Keep being strong God is watching :)
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Hi Fawn, I'm just checking on you and hoping some good came from everything. Please let me know how you are doing when you have the chance.

Randy
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Hi Randy,

I wish I had good news to report. My husband now has Jaundice in his eyes and still refuses treatment. He vomits every morning and goes through a period of tremors until he has had his morning "dose of medicine" to relieve these symptoms that is if he even makes it through the night! The other morning he was vomiting and had a bloody nose at the same time, when looking in the toilet I noticed blood mixed with the vomit. He claims this was from the bloody nose but I am not certain of it. His urine is a dark orange and sometimes even pinkish color.I am extremely worried and in great distress over the whole situation as I am afraid of losing him. My life is a living hell currently, I am a full-time student, working 25 hours a week, taking care of six children (the oldest who is now 16 and really acting up), and trying to get him to seek treatment. In all honesty I cannot even express how I feel right now. I see my whole world crumbling right in front of me and there is nothing I can do about it! Our 8yr old daughter is an extremely emotional girl and her daddy is so touchy because of his alcoholism causing him to yell at her for no good reason! Leaving her crying and constantly upset. I just do not know what to do anymore. Sorry to ramble but since you asked........

Fawn
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Hi Fawn. I'm sorry he isnt responding better to the help you have offered him. The dark yellow orange in his urine is the elevated bilirubin that is also causing the jaundice. The trembling is from the alcohol withdrawals. Nose bleeds would be common from the vommiting due to the pressure in his head during each heve. The blood is not uncommon for severe alcoholics that have and ulcer or hiatal hernia. In fact sometimes the thin layer of skin that stops the stomach acid from coming up becomes very relaxed in people that drink and smoke heavily. This will allow the bottom of the esphugus to become very raw and bleed from the acid.

Fawn I sure understand your want and need for him to quit drinking. You have to know that this is a conscious choice he is making. You have done more than any wife should ever have to do. He has got to be the one to do the right thing. His days of getting by living this way are limited and I fear it's just a matter of time before he will feel the need to get to the hospital. I know its real difficult to watch a loved one go down this road but I hope one trip to the hospital will be all he ever needs to make in order to find the motivation and strength he needs to finally give it up. I just hope he's not to late.

I feel so bad for your little girl. I know its very hard for you to allow this. maybe the older ones can help watch out for the little ones. You stay focused on your school the best you can. It's really going to help you down the road.

Do you mind me asking does he work? I'm assuming with his addition he is staying home and getting plowed all day. Seems to me the older children can watch the younger ones.
Thank you fawn for the update. Im sure its not easy to write this stuff. I hoping just as you are for him to straited up. please keep in touch and God bless you and your family

Randy
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Hi Randy,

I do not mind your asking anything. He is no longer working and is certainly in no condition to begin again, not until, if, he gets off the booze. The older children are capable of watching the younger ones and I have strongly depended on this in order for us to get by thus far. Thank you for listening and you are correct this is a very difficult thing to go through and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I only pray that he will realize what he is doing not only to his life but all of those around him!

Thank you again,
Fawn
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So he is spending $14 a day thats over a $100 a week after some tax. More than $400 a month = A nice car payment

How does he pay for this?
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it is most unwise of u to advise astroprof to get milk thistle and supercharge his liver...u have no idea what kind of shape his liver is in and what other medical issues he may have!U might not be able to tell the difference between cheap vodka at this point for 40 years of a 1/2 liter a day and hydrocodone for decades definitely does a number on the liver or leads one to wonder if one is left!this is a forum for those interested in recovery....not one for maintaining or putting herbal bandaids on the ravages of alcoholism/drug addiction on the body.
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Yeah listen to Ibizan!

Randy
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milk thistle has an active ingredient called sillymarin and it will help liver to do a better job and in hospital it is one of the things given to help livers to keep from failing because the liver like the kidneys don't give a lot of warning before failure; for instance when a person eats wild mushrooms and finds they picked wrong the liver can fail and death in few days.

SO SOME DON'T like advice on how to boost or help the liver; ok u can pray, hold hands, maybe a seance or join AA (only problem is such programs have a success of 5%)
but in the mean time; milk thistle
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Some doctors recommend Milk Thistle and some do not. It's a personal belief and so is praying, holding hands, s'eance and going to AA.  We do what we have to so that our goal of sobriety is reached. Those who do not support this goal should not post and disrupt the group.

Symptoms of advanced liver failure can indicate the development of serious complications, such as portal hypertension or esophageal varices. Seek immediate medical care (call 911) if you, or someone you are with, have any of these symptoms:

Ascites (buildup of fluid and swelling in the abdomen)

Bleeding, such as vomiting blood or severe rectal bleeding

Change in level of consciousness or alertness, such as passing out or unresponsiveness

Change in mental status or sudden behavior change, such as confusion, delirium, lethargy, hallucinations and delusions

Jaundice (yellowing of the skin and whites of the eyes)

Muscle tremors or shakiness

Shortness of breath or difficulty breathing

Here are a couple of things you should know about Milk Thistle:

Milk thistle lowers blood sugar levels, and should be used cautiously by patients with hypoglycemia and diabetes.

According to the Mayo Clinic, a number of research studies have examined milk thistle to determine if the herb is useful in treating conditions such as cancer, chronic liver disease, acute viral hepatitis, and cirrhosis. Although some studies show promising results, as of 2010, the evidence is not clear enough to strongly recommend milk thistle as a treatment for any of these life-threatening diseases.

Randy





Read more: Pros and Cons of Using Milk Thistle | eHow.co.uk http://www.ehow.co.uk/facts_7154106_pros-cons-using-milk-thistle.html#ixzz1WCllI58V
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again this is a forum for those seeking assistance in staying sober...if u want to continue drinking and doing hydrocodone and use milk thistle to keep ur liver bolstered....this is not the forum to post about it!there r many roads to recovery and complete abstinence from alcohol and all drugs....we respect whatever means one acheives that by......not by vodka maintenance and hydrocodone assistance!
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i will never understand why ppl come in2 this forum extolling the virtues of their so-called alcohol and drug use in full view of the health problems its causing them.If you want to go drink.......and overuse prescription drugs from a doctor or off the street..then i guess its ur constitutional right to do so!this is not the place to post about it.......and i w/my dry humor that i know u have and understand so well will say to folks who do so.....go have the ones for me i cannot have will not have and refuse 2 have!:)
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As one wise woman has told me before....Dont waste your energy!  

Thank God we no longer live that he!!~~
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how ya doin gal?bet those animals are keeping u in line!:)yesterday i went to see my mom who u know is being ravaged by Lewy Body Dementia.How i hate that disease!My real mother left in 2006 and what i go to visit is this hideous ugly disease!It was a sad visit yesterday as she was screaming delusional material at me.I couldn't wait to leave her disease!27 years ago i woulda smoked a big fat joint on the way home and stopped at the bar for A DRINK!!!!!hahahah.....when did i ever have just one?probably when i was 14!My mind was confuddled but so many recovery tools over the years and taking what i could use from 12 step meetings and those w/good recovery that many other lost souls have mocked here have helped to keep it on track and albeit push thru the doodoo of life!when i got home my Keota boy knew i was down.He put his feet on me.....pushed me w/his nose which got rubbed of course like it always does...and he pressed his head on me and rested it on my leg.We stayed this way for quite awhile and i felt the tension ease from me.What a therapist i have!:)No drink or drug did i desire!just not an option!yes no more mental hell w/the drink/drug...there is enuf hell on earth to contend with minus adding that to the soup pot!
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I sat in my garage day after day watching movie after movie and drinking beer after beer. I chose the garage so I could have my smokes too. I thought I work hard and I come home and be a peaceful lovin husband. I'm not hurting anything. I'm not hurting anyone! People that wouldn't agree with my lifestlye to bad, move on!

All the time I spent sitting in the chair rather than doing things with my wife and other loved ones. That time is gone. Career gone also. $600 a month over a course of 2-3 years all gone. 20 years of alcoholism, monies unaccounted for. Who or what was it hurting?
What does your Vodka and drugs mean to you? Add it up before its too late B****! Your done wasting my time!
Diagnosed at age 38.  

To date:
end stage cirrhosis
gall stones
slpenomegally
Portal hypertension
Varicies
Spider nivi
Hepatic encephalopathy
Hiatal hernia
Umbilical hernia

New as of last weeks evaluation:
Clinical major depression
Dementia
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u got diagnosed w/dementia?
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Yes, dementia is actually very much like hepatic encephalopathy. In my case both have developed due to liver disfunction.

Randy
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ok now i know what ur talkin bout.....oh so sorry there...glad ur wife loves u a big gargantuan honeypot and helps u!:)
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Thats cause she knows ill dump that honey pot on her head if she dont! he he Just dont tell her I said that!

Randy
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I had to grab the kleenex when i read your post.  I am so sorry about your mom going downhill even further.  Thank God you have such wonderful memories of your mom before this disease ravaged her body.  What a blessing for the both of you that you have been there for her sober.

Some people believe dogs and cats are just animals, you and i know differently.  What keota did for you yesterday no therapist could do in a lifetime........Give that big boy a hug and kiss from me and the fainting goat! (oops kitties too!)
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Your strength and determination is something that leaves me in awe~~
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thx sara.....there is nowhere anyone can go but down the toilet w/lewy body dementia.U and I have the BEST 4 legged therapists around!:)rpoo-value u u big poo...u make me smile and r a wealth of information and proof that sober is better......and whats left of ur life is worth living!
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Wow you are both so awesome! I dont even know what to say to something so incredibly nice. I'll just try THANK YOU and I hope you both know how much your words mean.

Randy

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My heart breaks for your situation.  If you can, please convince him to go to ER just this once.  This minute.  He is in a very very serious situation, but not hopeless.  I pray for you.
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   If you continue drinking at that rate you will be dead in 6 to 12 months.  That's the bad news if you read your big book and pray to a higher power you will have a better chance this support group will help you if you can take advise.  AA is a support group we practice spiritual principles and twelve steps of recovery.  Your life has become unmanageable and I think you no that.    I had a brother who died from addiction, and a close friend who died from cirrhosis of liver he also kept drinking he only lived 12 months after he found out.  This disease kills it will take your sanity and every thing that you hold close.  I suggest you go back to a treatment center I had to go two times myself we alcohols have a tolerance for pain but the second time I started working the steps and praying to a higher power and I have not drug or drink since.     You can do this it will help you live longer.
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Hi,
Sorry to disagree, but I do very strongly. The most important point is that we don't know the state of this liver. Milk Thistle is a very good remedy for acute attacks of enlarged and fatty liver. A doctor might recommend it. But a patient with End-stage Liver Disease is not a candidate for Milk Thistle. Hospitals immediately take it off the drug roster. Later, after a transplant, milk thistle and many other remedies give much help.
Thank you.
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Spanky- u musta misread my post....i've been sober/clean 29 years now!And i have read the Big Book many a time...still refer to it 2 this day! i was talking @ the thoughts of drinking....and smoking pot....not the actual use of it did i do!U need to go back and re-read my post much slower!
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I think it's safe to say you got a pretty good handle on it, just these last 29 yrs or so! :)
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whats left of ur life is worth living!  Thank you for this !! I was feeling a lil down today was reading this and got all teary eyed.. I'm so sorry Rpoo for your Mom and your diagnoses I agree with my much valued friend sara Thank the Good Spirits you are sober !! I go to the Dr. tomorrow to see if we start dialysis/treatment. Although I do not know the medical jargon I do understand when the numbers on my blood test rise our go down.. I feel a lil scared of the future as I have a lot going on besides kidney failure.. The not knowing of a plan had me craving today, but no longer.. Thank you for sharing.. with love in my heart. lesa
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lesa-many healing prayers 4 u......and my beloved poohbear-i'd like to think i got a good handle on it.....don't feel close to a drink at all... the thought of it and the smell of it makes my nose twitch in Yuckdom!:)
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Hi Lesa your so thoughtful but my cirrhosis is something I did to myself so no feeling bad for me. Actually things are going quite well considering.

You mentioned kidney failure and many other things going on, I don't know what other things but I would be glad to listen. If there is something related to liver disease maybe I can help?

please feel welcome to post or message me if you like. I wish the best for you.

Randy
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Ibizzy besides myself you are the last person I ever worry about giving up their sobriety. You are a very strong lady and I think it's wonderful how much time every day you devote to helping so many others!

Randy
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