Has anyone experienced this? If so, please help me!

[MattMVS7]

I wish to know something very important here which is that if anyone here with panic disorder or even PTSD have experienced this which is something that has happened to me and is always there now.  It is a defense mechanism that shuts down your anxiety (fear and panic) as well as your ability to experience pleasure in order to prevent the fear that is happening in panic disorder and the fear that is happening in response to a traumatic event in PTSD.  I'm not even sure to call it depression, rather a "complete numbing" of your fear and ability to experience pleasure to, again, prevent the panic and fear from happening (although it could be a form of depression).  If you have severe panic disorder (like me) or severe PTSD in which you were constantly experiencing panic after panic virtually all throughout the day, did this experience (defense mechanism) I'm having ever happen to you?  Furthermore, have you recovered from it?  If so, then how?

I am experiencing something far worse than depression.  It's not a feeling of hopelessness (depression), it is a complete inability to experience any enjoyment or pleasure and there is not a single brief moment (even a few seconds) where I am able to experience at least some level of pleasure.  This is not a matter of "I may have some loss of pleasure, but at least I am still able to experience a little bit of pleasure to make the best of my life."  This is something catastrohpically serious.   I am completely unable to experience pleasure 24/7 (as in, this ability has been completely wiped out permanently). I never experience even a brief moment of pleasure even once.  At least during even my worst moments of depression I was at least able to have moments of some pleasure.  But this form of "depression" I'm having now does not allow this at all.

I feel that my mind has shut down my fear and pleasure as a result permanently as a defense mechanism to prevent me from having the fear (panic) and that I will basically never experience pleasure again.  Every depressive episode I had in life only resulted in my ability to experience pleasure being blunted, but not completely gone and felt like this is something normal that would pass.  The inability to experience pleasure from this depression though does not feel normal and feels as though one would feel if they have completely destroyed their ability to experience pleasure through illegal drugs.  I know that my ability to experience pleasure has not been destroyed and is only being suppressed by this depression.

Although I believe this to be a form of depression, I am not sure if it is even something you would call depression.  It could be a different defense mechanism entirely which would be something known as "going completely numb" in order to shut down the fear and pleasure as a result to prevent the panic from happening.  It doesn't feel normal because I do not feel sad or dead and hopeless as though one would feel with depression.  I actually feel alive, calm, and relaxed, but the ability to experience pleasure being completely suppressed (shut down).  However, I am starting to at least feel a bit hopeless right now knowing that my ability to experience pleasure has been lost.  If this issue does not get critically addressed and hardly or doesn't get better 6 months or 1 year from now, that is when I will become severely depressed.

But this would be the solution that would completely bring back my ability to experience pleasure again. When I had these panic attacks in the very beginning all caused by different phobias (thoughts), even though I did become depressed, this depression was simply a response at the time and was not a defense mechanism that shut down the fear and my ability to experience pleasure as a result in order to prevent the panic from happening. At the time, I thought to myself that maybe in 1 month this would all get better and that maybe I won't have panic all throughout the day each day. However, the moment that I began to have an extreme fear in which I experienced as many as 3 panic attacks in 1 minute and the panic didn't seem to stop, I made the realization that this is likely that this is something that is not going to stop and would almost continue all day everyday. That is when this depression became the defense mechanism and shut down the fear and shut down my ability to experience pleasure in order to not take that great risk. There is also another realization that I made that is also contributing to this depression in taking on the form of this defense mechanism which is that there are people who are treatment resistant in terms of panic disorder and hardly or do not get better despite medication, CBT, meditation, exposure therapy, and everything else. Therefore, this is also something that poses yet another great risk which is that my panic could continue and hardly or never get better and that I will live an entire life of panic or at least many years of panic. Since my mind is also not willing to take that great risk as well, this is also another reason why this depression remains there holding off my fear and pleasure all the time as a defense mechanism.

In CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy), this is something that addresses something known as 'cognitive distortions.' I already realize that me thinking that there is the possibility that I will have many or even almost constant panic all day everyday and also that it might hardly or never get better would be me catastrophizing which would mean that my thinking here is not true because we don't even know if this is a possibility or not. However, there is something that is true which I feel therapy and such cannot address which is that there is the risk of that happening if my depression were to somehow go away right now or ease up which would no longer hold off the fear. Again, I know from personal experience that when there were moments in which this depression went down a bit, that did cause the panic to return. But now there are never such moments and the depression remains there all the time 24/7 holding off my fear and pleasure.

Let's pretend right now that I would be completely comfortable with this risk stated above, that would cause my depression to go away completely right now. However, this is completely impossible for me to feel comfortable at all with this risk and I do not think it would be possible for any human being to feel comfortable with such a risk either. This is why my depression remains there and is not getting better in order to avoid this risk.  If the depression were to somehow get better, that poses yet another great risk which is that the panic would return.  So in order to avoid this risk as well, the depression is always there never taking the risk of ever getting better.

This is why I ask if there is any possible way to address this issue and if there is any way possible to help me think differently in such a way that would be likely for me to recover from this depression or if there is any therapy and such whatsoever that would address this issue.

In conclusion, there are two chemicals that are theorized to be involved in mood (though it is not proven yet).  Serotonin is the chemical that makes you feel calm and relaxed and dopamine is the chemical that allows you to feel pleasure.  Therefore, it would seem that my serotonin has been restored back to normal in getting rid of the depressive feeling of being hopeless and dead inside.  But my dopamine response has been completely shut down in order to prevent the panic from happening.  Therefore, this is why I feel I need medication that restores the dopamine response in experiencing pleasure.

[Onebad69]

Yes! I believe it is true that if you can face the panic attacks, you will begin to feel better.

I very much recommend you look up, "fight or flight syndrome". Although your responses causing anxiety are autonomic, I know that you can, "logic" yourself out of these fears. Again, if you would like a really good analogy for this, that might help all of these things make sense to you, I would be happy to help you.

This is fixable, Matt! : )

[MattMVS7]

I already am doing everything I can in addressing this issue, but I am also here talking about it at the same time because that is what these forums are all about and I wish to know very important things here.

I believe what I'm having now is not depression, but anhedonia because that is something that happens when your mind decides to shut down your emotions because, in my case, the fear was too much.  But it is something that does not cause you to feel hopeless or sad as in depression.  In my case, it leaves me with no fear of these thoughts and no ability to experience pleasure.

Now tell me if I am true or false on this which is that the only way I see getting better is that if I were to be comfortable with having these panic attacks because depression and anhedonia, in this case, ease up when you are comfortable with something and no longer view it as a problem.  So in other words, is the only way for me to get better is for me to feel comfortable facing my panic attacks?  I have the strong will and determination to face my panic in order to get out of this anhedonia.  But as long as you are not comfortable facing these panic attacks which is how I feel, you can have all the will and determination in the world and it won't do anything.  You can even address this issue through medication and everything else, but that won't do anything either as long as I am not comfortable having these panic attacks.

Or am I false on this and that since the mind is a very complex organ, then that makes this situation more complex in that my mind can somehow recover the ability to experience pleasure while still suppressing my fear?  Has anyone here had anhedonia as a response to trauma or panic and have gotten better with it despite the fact that you were never comfortable facing your trauma or fear?

[Onebad69]

Matt, I think you should look up, "fight or flight syndrome". Once you do that, you will probably be able to better define what it is you are going thru in regards to lack of any feeling. Somewhere, at some time, you were frightened and as a result you have taken either flight or fight and it has stuck with you. I can give you a simple analogy to help you understand it if you want. Look it up though.

In regards to the other things you described I believe it is not just serotonin and dopamine but also norepinephrine. Those chemicals in your brain need to be balanced. I really think this is fixable. I say that, because I think you and I are similar. I can only advise you on my experiences. Nobody knows why those chemicals become and imbalanced but it can be corrected with medication. Also, I think, with a lot of logic. That's why I want you to look up the "fight or flight syndrome".

Based on the amount of writing you did in your post, I think you have another tendency that I have, which comes along with the chemical imbalances. Do you feel the need to write everything down and explain yourself in greater detail as you write? I am not sure I can help you with that, as I do it also. However, I have stopped doing it for years at a time in the past.

Jennifer
Onebad69