Manic

[Dmom55]

Doctor,
My son is in the throw's of a manic state.  I don't live near him, he's 6 hours away living on his own and going to college. He began seeing a new psychiatrist 3 weeks ago, who without any testing or diagnosis, put him on Xanax XR, Focalin and Ativan.  He has been on many meds in the past and has abused xanax and klonopin. He's been in rehab for addictive tendencies and smokes marijuana and drinks. I gave a written history about this to his doctor and expressed he's in a manic state but after my son saw the doctor yesterday, he did nothing!  My son is worse today and I'm worried sick.  What can I do?  Any sugesstions would help greatly.  Should I contact this doctor, even though he did nothing and can't legally speak to me?  I've been down this road last year with another psychiatrist prescribing him addictive medications, which he abused and went into a full manic state and landed him in a dual diagnosis rehab.

Thank you for any advice!!
Concerned Dmom 55

[DLA]

Stay strong and pray A LOT!!  I certainly do.  I'll be here any time you need to talk, gripe, or cry to a shoulder.  Will continue to keep you in my prayers.

Dac

[Dmom55]

Thanks for your good advice again!!  

I thought the same thing...is it a cry for help. Last night at a beach bbq he was smoking pot, drinking and snorting coke when I phoned and he acted like it was no big deal that he was wasted  Oh well, I am realizing I can't let him destroy my life along with him. If he wants help, I'll be there. Otherwise, he's on his own.

Thank you for your prayers....The same goes for you!!
Dmom55

[DLA]

Try posting a new thread about the meds and someone else will probably answer who knows more about them.

Hard to tell if your son is asking for help or what, isn't it?  I really for you.  But I do think he is going to have to crash and burn before he gets help at this point.

Hang in there and we'll pray together that he decides to get help soon.
Dac

[Dmom55]

Thank you Dac, I appreciate your help!

I understand all about the ADHD meds and klonopin, just wondered if anyone else has been prescribed these when coping with BP. Not to mention they are both addicting and my son's an addict, so not good he was prescribed these in my view.

I agree about the marijuana and it's probably just his guilt and way of trying to make me (and himsefl) think it's ok if he tells me his doc says it is. I don't agree with his doc anyway!  It's so easy to get a fake medical license to buy pot in Northern ca (where he lives).  Also, anyone can buy meds online and kids buy them, sell them and take them as well...it's crazy this is allowed without a script!  

Well, I should have waited before my last comments.  My son is really bad but it goes up and down daily, mostly off in his thinking. He called me upet again late last night to vent. He was crying, saying no one likes him. For some reason he felt inclined to tell me he snorted oxycontin last week with a friend who had it....but said it was only once and wouldn't do that again. I wouldn't be surprised if he's using this everyday because it sounded as if he was snorting something while on the phone with me.  I ask if he was and he made up an excuse.  Anyway, I know there is nothing I can do.  He is going to crash and burn soon and I pray he'll at least survive to get into rehab.

Thank you for all your prayers and advice!  May God Bless you richly in your life!
Dmom55

[DLA]

http://www.druginfonet.com/index.php?pageID=klonopin.htm

This is a link to the website about the klonopin.  I'm not really up on all the meds so I can't help you much.  The only thing I've ever needed it an antidepressant.

Glad he's still got his job.  Sounds like maybe he's at least come out of the manic phase long enough for the meds to work if he seriously takes them.  Personally I can't imagine a dr prescribing marijuana for anything but cancer or something horribly painful like that.  The alcohol of course is a huge nono.  Don't know about the affects of the pot, but the alcohol is a depressant by itself and makes a lot of the drug do the opposite of what they are suppose to do.  For example, they make ad's make you more depressed and suicidal instead of what they're suppose to do.

I don't about the ADHD drugs other than ritilan.  The children I knew growing up who took it became mentally retarded adults from it.  Not scientific fact, just something I know from experience.  Don't know if this is b/c their brains are not developed yet or what, but I would check into it.

Wish I could be of more help to you on this.  Do know that I continue to pray for you as well and look forward to getting updates on your son.

Dac

[Dmom55]

How's it going?  I wanted to update you on my son.  He had a terrible weekend and almost got fired at work.

Finally, he was much better yesterday and work went really well last night and he didn't get fired!  Today he seems ok too.  It's as if the manic stage is gone or less or could it be his meds are working better now?  He was prescribed 2mg of klonopin to take daily and I believe ritilan or focalin for his ADHD (not sure if he's taking this but that could sure cause a manic state) and also ativan to help him sleep at night.  

Does anyone know if klonopin is used to treat bp? I wouldn't think so. My son has panic attacks and this is what he said he was given it for. It's to calm his anxiety but could using klonopin cause a manic state to come on at first?  Or would smoking pot and/or drinking (or his others meds) be the cause while using these meds?  I realize none of the illegal drugs are good to do and he shouldn't drink but just wondered exactly how it works.  

Have any of you ever smoked pot to calm your moods, if so, does it help or end up making you worse or even manic?  My son tells me his pdoc gave him a script to buy pot for this. Not sure if that's true or a good idea while taking his other meds?

Also, could klonopin be enough for someone to help when manic?

Thank you for any help or advice!  Prayers to all of you!  Hope you're doing well Dac!!

Dmom55

[DLA]

Amen, sister!  :+)

Good luck with your son.  Keep me posted on how everything goes and any time you need me I'm just a mouse click away.

God be with you,
Dac

[Dmom55]

Dear Dac,

You have given me some excellent advice!!  I will use it wisely, thank you! You're correct, BP's are usually very intelligent, their brain is just wired different and causes them awful grief.  I'm ADD myself and I didn't learn that until my sons were dx during school years.  Mine is not bad but I just thought I was a terrible listener and easily distracted.

It's true, my ex is very ADHD and although he's been able to be sucessful in his life, he's got some serious issues with how he handles anger and his verbal abuse. Especially, towards our son and his need to control everyone. His dad was an alcoholic and verbally abused him. I do what I can to teach my ex how he can better help our son. I do it in a positive way but it only last awhile until his next angry outburst and he loses all control of what he says.  I know it's difficult when our son is hurting himself but he doesn't get that it's not totally his fault and his anger doesn't help him. I thank God I married a wonderful supportive man 16 years ago!

Shame on your dad our anyone who is lives with blinders on and hurts anyone else.  I don't get these people, it's cruel and they don't have a clue!!  They are the one's with an illness if you ask me!!  It's all about them having to admit and face their own demons, but they can't so they blame others. We all have our demons and problems, I don't care who you are. People like my ex and your dad are the weak ones, insecure and controling, with their own mental illness they can't admit. This is why they bully everyone around them, because they are weak..  

Again, I can't thank you enough!  I'm glad you took the BP in your hands and are doing well. I think my son might be a rapid cycler as well, not sure but at times he does this. Could also be his drug use because that's when it's worse. I will offer the literature, I tired this a few years ago but maybe not how you suggested.  Also, now that he is older and dealig with the ups and downs longer, maybe he will be more open to it. I hope my son will come to terms with it soon.

Take good care of yourself and I will pray for you and all on here too!  Thank you for your prayers!!  I'm here for you as well, write anytime, I will check back often!

You're grateful friend,
Dmom55

[DLA]

No problem.  That's what we're here for.

When I was dx bipolar my therapist didn't say it to me.  She gave me a bunch of literature about different mental things that she said she thought I'd like to read.  Of course some of it was on bipolar.  When I went back I told her I knew that I was sure I was bp, the roller coaster ride was me exactly.  I'm a rapid cycler.  I could be laughing my head off one minute and bawling the next for no reason at all.  And just as fast I could go the other way.  Also found out I had ADHD in all that literature.

See, if she would have just come out and said it to me I probably would have told her she was nuts.  I didn't have a "mental illness"!  But in reading it for myself and finding out that it was an actual medical condition and not something to be ashamed of I came to terms with it a lot easier.  I was actually so relieved to find out what was really wrong with me I could have shouted it from the roof tops!

It's been my experience that most bp's are very intelligent people and that discovering these things on our own is the best way  Just like it's okay to find out you're wrong about something, but it's much different when some one tells you you're wrong.

If you can get the info and let your son read up on it some how without pushing, that would be a great way to start.  Now, I have absolutely no idea how to do this, but I'll be rooting for you from the stands.  lol

My dad is like that in the fact that he doesn't "deal" with these kind of things.  He just thinks I make excuses for things I've done in my past by saying I'm bp.  And I'd be willing to be that your husband has the same reason as my dad.  He has it also and will not admit it because it's a "MENTAL ILLNESS"!!!    AAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!  ;)  To them it's just a bad sign of weakness that we can't control ourselves the way they think we ought to.  

Am praying that things will work out for your son and you won't have to do anything drastic to make him see the light.  Just make sure that in all that happens he knows exactly how much you love him and that he can always come to you.  That you will not support his drug habits and his current way of life, but he is still the love of your life.  Amazing how much difference it makes just hearing that all the time.  Especially when you're bp and feel nobody loves you or wants you.

Will keep you both in my prayers and I'm here any time you need me.
Dac

[Dmom55]

Thank you for your very wise reply!  It was not mean and you're correct in eveything you say.  I have thought of turning him in and I will if he's driving again in the state he was in Tuesday night. Like you, it would break my heart to do that but the alternative is worth it.

I find it very helpful reading about what everyone writes on here about their bipolar and addictions. I did know that addiction usually goes hand in hand with bipolar and/or other illnesses. It's one reason it can go untreated for years and really sad!

What I am learning by reading here is that my son might be having a hard time with erratic moods and being manic due to his medication being new to his system. Even though last year he abused klonopin before, I don't know if he's abusing it now. He says he's taking as directed and I believe him and his Dr. is monitering his meds, so that's one good thing....but he is smoking pot as well. Today he sounded better, although he's still manic but not as bad. He went to the gym and then to class but he was still spending money he doesn't have. It goes up and down at times during the day and night. Also the break up with his girlfriend Monday is taking a toll on him so I'm sure he's masking this pain any way he can.

I will check closely on him and see how he's doing and if he isn't better I will take action. Like Shawn said to someone else..."the manic state could ease up after a few days of adjusitng to the meds," so maybe that's true for my son? Today I noticed when he takes his meds before eating he is better after he eats. He has a very high metabolism.

Lastly, you're correct about his dad. Every doctor my son has ever seen says his dad is a huge part in his problems. He can be verbally abusive, calls him a drug addict, a loser and uses the money to threaten and control his son. I tell my son only he can get out from under his dad's control but that in itself is tough for him but one day he will. God knows I've tried to get his dad out of denial and I will continue for my son's sake. We did family counseling a few years ago but his dad seems to fall back into old patterns. He's from that world of "you just need to stop using drugs and get a college degree and get a job," you know this type? They're afraid of therapist and pdoc meds and think they're useless. If his son fails he thinks he fails.  It's backwards and terrible thinking I know... and this is very hard on my son but it's up to him to stop it!

Question?  Should I ask my son if any doctors have ever diagnosed him bipolar or say I think he might be bipolar?  I'm not sure if I should ask this or if it will upset him. I have in the past but he avoids it and can get irritated.  I don't know what is ok to say but I know he has to be honest about this so he can get the right help and get his life on a good path.  

Thank you so much again!  You're a blessing and I don't feel so alone now!

God Bless,
Dmom55

[DLA]

This will sound really mean but have you considered turning him in to the authorities?  I agree with the fact that you don't want him killing himself or any one else.  No one wants that.  If he gets caught with the drugs or driving drunk you could appeal to the judge for a mental health evaluation and if given could land him in a really good hospital.  BUT, he cannot be allowed to check himself in.  It would have to be appt by a judge or he can walk out any time he wants to.

I know it sounds like a horrible thing to do to one's own child, makes me sick thinking about doing it to my son, but which would be the better alternative?  Bipolars are, by the nature of the beast, addictive.  One of the many obstacles we have to over come.  But we do have to come to terms with all of it and learn to be responsible for ourselves.

If your son does get the help he needs your ex needs to be able to help him by going and getting some kind of counseling on his problems also so he doesn't continue to enable him.  Would not have a clue how to get him to do that, having an ex of my own, but hopefully he loves his son enough to take those steps and not just keep throwing money at him instead of the real attention he needs.  

I hope and prayer your son finds the help he needs very soon.  Am praying for the both of you.

Dac

[Dmom55]

Thanks for your replies.  It's my first (now 2nd) time on here and I thought I was asking a medhelp doctor for help, sorry about that. This has been going on since my son was 17, he is 21 now and it's a very long story and too much to explain it all here but here is some of it.  At first you think it's drug addiction and go through that system, so he hasn't fully been diagnosed bipolar by anyone yet, as far as I know but I believe he is. He never stays with a pdoc long enough, he quits his therapy and pdoc too fast.  When he didn't want to use meds (last year he was on lithium but didn't like it), so he smokes pot to help his anxiety and calm him down and he drinks a lot. He has ADHD also.

I realize I cannot speak to his doctor legally, which is why I said what I wrote in my first comment...but I can speak to his receptionist and she can tell the Dr. what I say or I can fax the Dr. again. Although, by the pdoc giving my son a medication anyway that I said in my initial faxed history that he was addicted to and abused...makes me think the doctor will not listen to anything I say!  

Venora: Thank you for your reply. My son is also an addict which adds to the problem and what gets me is how does anyone who is "Not rational and in their right mind" do what is rational to get help on their own?  What I don't understand is some say I need to let it go, he has to sort it out... But if he kills another family driving and/or himself when I knew he was abusing meds and drugs and in a manic state and shouldn't be driving...then what?  Do I sit by and do nothing? Well, I'm sorry but I couldn't live with myself.  I realize he needs to figure out his own bipolar or whatever it is he's struggling with.... but if the Dr. is blind and only spends 15 minutes with him, do you really think he's capable of that in his state right now?

It's very difficult to find a good pdoc who doesn't prescribe to an ADDICT, addictive meds, which they will abuse and has sent my son into a manic state 3 times before. This pdoc gave meds without any history or test and that is very dangerous and irresponsible!

Shawn: Not a pacing tiger but a sitting one maybe!  My pals are all here for me but I wanted a qualified medical professional to advise me on my options to help my son to get the help he needs before he hurts himself or someone else. The inpatient rehab my son was in before was because his 'famliy' did an intervention, it was our idea and we were glad he was in there but he left 2 weeks early on his own will!  I assume the new pdoc doesn't think my son needs an intervention because he's only seen him 3 times, once a week and this just began to happen from the meds he has him on this week.

Also, his girlfriend moved out Monday and this has sent him over the edge. So I guess we wait until he crashes and burns and hopefully he will not hurt anyone and still be alive when he does.  I know, there is nothing anyone can do unless he wants help.  My son's dad (my ex) pays for his apt. and car to live in Monterey and go to college but he's only passed a few classes after 2 years. So it makes it tough since his dad enables him and then freaks out at him because he can't live up to what he expects. His dad doesn't get how serious this is no matter how much I've try to enlighten him!  

I do have support from my husband and friends but they don't have a clue what to do in the case of a young adult in an out of control manic state, which is why I tried this.

Thanks for all your prayers! And prayers to all of you as well!
Dmom55

[DLA]

As another mom I understand too how hard this must be on you, but Venora's right.  He is going to have to learn to take control of himself and be responsible for what he does and how he feels or he will never get better.

You are both in my prayers as well.
Dac

[Venora Moonwind]

I dont know how old your son is but it is time for you to let go and let him take responsibility for his bi polar. I am sorry to sound harsh but that is the best for bi polars most of the time and then they can get the help they need. io know I had to hit rock bottom before the bi polar dx became real for me.
shawn is right the rehab place was probably the best for him so he could get help and maybe he needs to go back.
I understand your concern as I am a mom myself to a bi polar child but there comes a time when you can only do so much for them. then it is time to let them be responsible for themselves. Keep in touch. your son is in my prayers.
love Venora

[shawn47]

Dmom55  --  well, the doctor seems to think your son is not in need of an intervention.  Intervention, is that what's being suggested?  I'm more interested in how upset *you* are.  You've been down this road with your son many times.  I dunno, maybe this is way off, but i think you have the right to consult with his doctor. . . uh, is he under 18?  If he's a legal adult you don't have the right to talk to his doc, unless your son gives permission.  I think that's right.  This is a stupid observation -- if a full manic state landed him in a dual diagnosis rehab, what's so bad about that?  I'd say that he lucked out and got some help he badly needed.  You?  I get the picture of a pacing tiger.  Where are your pals that you can get support and an opinion regarding this?  shawn