2 Year old Making her self throw up when dad leaves her at daycare

[FrustratedDCP]

I have a 2 yo daycare girl that screams and crys and actually makes herself throw up when her dad leaves her here.  She is perfectly fine a few minutes later and she does NOT do this when her mom brings her.  I think she has seperation anxiety and her dad is making it worse by consoling her and picking her up, then telling her he is leaving, and picking her up again when she crys.  He stayed for over 15 minutes today.  What can I try to make things better for her?  I even told the parents to try a new daycare and they don't want to so I am guessing that she does some of this at home to.

[Kristy28]

My son did this same thing we he started daycare. It was very hard on me to leave him and i would want to sit there with him until he calmed down. One of the caretakers finally suggested that i go ahead and leave even with him crying (to the point of making himself sick) They would tell me that he would calm down shortly after me leaving. So.....finally i listened (hard thing to do lol) left and stood outside the door observing where he couldn't see me. Within a few moments he stopped crying and was playing with the other children. One day he had stopped crying but i didnt move from the door quick enough and he saw me. He started crying again and I truely realized then that it was me. It is very hard for parents to not "parent" if that makes sense. Maybe suggest that he try this.....so he can see that his child is truely ok. I hope this helps a little.

[Agiesmom]

I don’t really need to write that a young child being home with mom is best unless the mother is a neglectful, abusive addict, who does not want to be with her child, do I?  I really didn’t think I would have to specify that, but maybe I do?  If the quality of home life is bad, the house is filthy and/or smoke-filled, and the mother is abusive, neglectful, and/or has addiction issues, and doesn't want to be with the child, then the child would obviously be better off in an institutional setting with people who will keep him safe and entertained.  If the mom is a decent person who enjoys being with her child and can keep him safe and entertained, then I believe the child is better off being with her.

[suzi-q]

I agree with the "quality" instead of "quantity'...however, I am sure that there will be people to debate this with you, just because they cannot bend on their opinions!

[Agiesmom]

I said nothing different than what you said, Peek.  You just obviously are watching and trying to find something inflammatory in what I write.  And that's ok.

I just think that everyone rethinks things when they are actually IN the situation no matter what they may think while imagining being in the situation.  I didn't say she'd CHANGE HER MIND...I said that she'd rethink it (think about it again).  I think it would be pretty abnormal to make a life decision like that about the future and never think about it again when you get to that particular point in life.

No "and back we go".  Unless you want to, of course.  :)

[AHP84]

Daycare or no daycare, perhaps the *quality* of the parent/child relationship is the foundation of what's most important, rather then the *quantity* of time spent in the parent/child relationship.

[suzi-q]

I had a wonderful childhood with a stay at home mom.  It was like "leave it to beaver"..(I know I keep using that show!).

However, I work, and LIKE to work...AND I ADORE MY DAUGHTER!

So, I had a great childhood with a SAHM and I choose to be working mom.  Not only is money an issue (big issue), but I am happier when I am working.  It is my personal decision.  However, I do not feel it hurts my child in any way.  I know she is also a very happy little girl and well-adjusted.  

[AHP84]

This is where I feel weird. When my son was born, I had that awe of him and was (and still am) completely in love with him. But at the same time, I have never had issues about being apart from him for a few hours at a time. None at all.
I guess I'm abnormal that way, that I don't feel a strong need or desire to be with my son when he's separated from me for 3-8 hours at a time. Granted, I think about him, talk about him, brag about him, gaze at his pictures, and LOVE going to pick him up from daycare and have him jump into my arms with a huge grin on his face and yell, "Mommy!"
But at the same time, he's eager to get to daycare in the mornings and gets excited when I pull into the parking lot. He's always been this way, even as a baby. So I know he has no issues of separation anxiety. I know he's in the care of people I can trust and that will look after for him lovingly and diligently.
Most importantly though, I know the trust and bond between my son and me is what makes this possible. Trevor KNOWS that I'll always come back for him, I'll always be there to take care of his important needs first, and I'll be there for him at the drop of a hat if they call me. He knows this and is secure in this, because I've never let him down. I think that's what makes any parent/child bond what it is, whether working parents or SAHMs.
Or maybe I'm just abnormal and a bad mom with an abnormal son.

[peekawho]

And back we go.

I always knew I would work.  I wanted to be a nurse, I went to school to be a nurse, I enjoy(ed) being a nurse, and knew I could do both.  
I feel I was in awe of my babies, loved them, took care of them...AND  worked.  Full time.  Did I want to be apart from them?  No.  But that's what I choose, and again...its about choice.  I didn't have to use a lot of daycare, but there were times they went, according to my schedule.  

Don't insist she'll "rethink" it, as if she has the incorrect thinking right now.  She may rethink it, she may not.  Either way, she sounds as if she'll do what she wants, which is as it should be.  I believe she'll love her babies, working or not.

[Agiesmom]

You'll rethink it.  Trust me.  It's only natural to look into that little face, in total awe of the miracle of it all, and not want to be apart all day.  Your desire to work may outweigh that and you may choose to stay home or work part-time or whatever...but have no doubt--you will rethink it when the time comes.

[holly_b]

RR: My mom stayed home with five kids, she didn't go back to work until I was well into my teens and my youngest sibling had started school. My mom did a great job with us. We achieve well academically, have good friends, are happy etc. I don't regret the time my mom spent with us as I love her dearly but I would have been happy for her to be a working mom if thats what she wanted as would the rest of my family. I believe we turned out well because of who our parents were, not because my mother happened to be a SAHM.

And for the record I fully intend on having children one day but I also fully intend on being a working mom. Just because I had a good childhood with my mom at home does not mean I am going to do likewise when I have kids nor does it mean that I would have had a bad childhood or turned out differently just because my mom worked. All parents have to let their kids go to some degree at some point be that at daycare, school or a private childcare provider.

I believe women should have a choice. Working moms who have to work should not be made to feel guilty for working but neither should moms who CHOOSE to work because it is what they want. I am in the middle of a difficult, prestigous degree in a top university in my country. (I am honestly not bragging I am saying this purely for the purpose of my point of view)  I worked my a$$ off to get into it and I have to work darn hard to keep my place. At the end I will get an excellent, well paying job. That is my dream, it is also my dream to have children. I am not going to give up one dream for the other nor do I have to. I believe that I have the ability to do both and neither will suffer as a result of the other. I have not studied for years to give it all up to be a SAHM. Not that there is anything wrong with that as long as It is something you want, as I said my mother was a SAHM even though she was a qualified nurse and I have the utmost respect for her. I know I do not have children so I may have to rethink doing both when I do but women should have a choice in my opinion.

Sorry this is so long, I didn't mean it to be!

[peekawho]

I'm not at all saying my mother was not loving.  She loved us very much.  She did the best she could.  I don't know what went on in my infancy or very early childhood, as I don't have memories back then as others apparently do.  But I'm sure she was not abusive.  
I remember life getting a whole lot better after she went to work.  And I'm sure her working financed my college.  For that, I'm so grateful.  I doubt I could have done it without my parents help.  Or at least, it would have been much harder and taken a lot longer, and I just don't have that sort of attention span. I might have not finished.  

I'm just saying that there is no one clear answer.  The answer is not "nature says you should do XYZ" and that's that.  There are always shades of gray.  We have choices, and no one should be made to feel as though they are damaging their child.  I grew up ok, despite the fighting parents and a good deal of disfunctionality in our family.  You can also have the most loving family in the world and grow up to have serious problems.

And as for the article..those women are clearly from a different income group than would probably be the norm around here.  Most of them don't "have" to work, or have money issues that can be easily solved by simply cutting back on expenses.  Not everyone has such simple solutions to money problems.

I'd love to not work.  I've worked enough, I think.  I enjoy it, but there comes an end to everything.  Right now, its important that we keep the house in North Carolina.  Its important to my husband right now to have his job here.  We're a family, for all our warts.  So we have to have 2 full time incomes--again, its about our choices, not what nature intended.  I still cook and do most of the "traditional" female household duties--I love to cook.
We're winding down the spending, but we live on a cash and carry basis anyway.  No more unauthorized motorcycles are coming into the Peekahold.  In fact, his majesty just sold the 4 wheeler.  I think he'll sell a couple more bikes.  Still, in SoCal, its very expensive to live.  So I'll be working a while longer.  

[mslkpage]

Jen, I think working part-time would be the ideal as well. Unfortunately for me, I would lose my benefits if I dropped to part-time and dh's job doesn't have insurance. I could take a pay cut, but not a pay cut AND losing my insurance. Hopefully someday, I'll find a p/t job that pays enough so we can afford to get insurance on our own.

RR, my mom stayed home with me and my 4 siblings. She didn't go to work until I was in 4th grade. My home life was great, all 4 of us went on to graduate from college and have good careers and we're all still married to our spouses. And yet, I don't necessarily think it was better than daycare would have been. So I hate to burst your epiphany...and maybe I didn't, because I'm only one person. I really don't mind the beliefs that you have and who knows? Maybe your opinion IS right. But I am one of the people who does the best they can. I'm taking tomorrow off to be with DS and I try to do that as often as possible.

[Agiesmom]

I kind of felt lost when I first started to stay home (while pregnant--I was working at a home daycare and kept getting sick and my ob/gyn told me that if my job isn't putting food on the table, I should quit so I stop getting sick).  Anyway...it was hard.  I was ingrained in the whole mentality of identifying who I was with what I did for a living.  When our son was a toddler, I remember going to a barbecue that one of my husband's coworkers had--two different women who worked for the company came up to me at different times during the course of the afternoon and started a conversation with me.  All went well until they asked me what I "did".  When I told one, her face dropped and she saw someone else she had to say "hi" to and she excused herself.  The other went on about how bored she'd be staying home with her kids and how rewarding her career was.  I felt awful that day.  It wasn't until I surrounded myself with like-minded women in the same situation that I felt better and not so lost.  I knew in my heart that my job was WAY more important than theirs, but that's not what society believes--it's not what they believed.

This is where I think new SAHMs struggle--I think many women have become like men in that they identify who they are by their careers.  It seems to me that the pendulum is swinging back to society respecting moms being home with their children, but when my 12 yo was a baby, it wasn't like that.  It may still be like that now, but I simply am not around people who make me feel bad about being home with my baby, so I really wouldn't know for certain.

And I have similar memories to RR's--my mom was home and loving and played games with us and let us play with the hose and eat popsicles and she took us sledding and plopped down and made snow angels with us and she raked piles of leaves for us to play in and she handmade all our Halloween costumes and she was my Girl Scout troop leader and she was just very, very involved.  Perhaps my view of this topic would be different if I had experienced something different growing up.

I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings.  I do understand that different people have different life experiences and different situations warrant different choices.

[jenstam]

Thanks RR.

I agree. Discussions like these don't have to be disagreements. It is always good to see both sides. I cannot say that I disagree with anything I have read here. I am in the middle. RR and Peek, you have both, IMO, added some very valuable insight.

[RockRose]

By and large, I really think grandparents ( and also usually sisters and sisters in law) are great.  

I do understand that many women feel disconnected when they are at home,  and they feel like they don't get much adult time.  Here's again,  where experiences are different.  When my first was born,  there was a new mother network where you could come and sit on the floor in a big carpeted room and chat.  They had lists of resources for joining playgroups,  museums,  etc.,  and where to meet other mothers.  I was very connected,  and did things with other moms and kids probably 4 days a week.  If you don't jump right into that,  it would be terribly lonely.  So I get that.

I wish you the best in your decision,  Jen.

[tiredbuthappy]

i agree that if we continue this discussion in this tone, it can be both interesting and insightful ... but i'll have to chime in later. gotta get a fence estimate...

[jenstam]

I grew up in two very, very different worlds, which probably explains why I am so torn between both worlds now.

I was raised first by two abusive (to each other) drunk/drug addicts. Finally, after my father nearly beat my mother to death in front of me, they divorced (THANK GOD). Then, because my mother was a drunk/drug addict single mother, she went to work two full time jobs and we never really saw her much. When we did see her, she was drunk. She was in and out of treatment.

BUT, while all of this was happening, most of the time we were cared for by my loving grandparents. Church goers, active in the community, married for nearly 60 years before my grandfather passed a few years ago. My grandmother never worked outside of the home until he passed. She made us meals, taught us lessons, took us to church and helped support my sick mother. Their other three daughters all married, are still married, successful and happy. My mother is the black sheep.

My whole life I have taken hold of the lessons my grandmother taught me and resented my mother. I have always strived to be like grandma. She is a saint and I am so blessed to have had her there to help ease the mess my parents made of their lives.

[jenstam]

Oops, I meant "interacting with the children", not "interfering with the children"! :\

And my last paragraph...I realize these circumstances are hard to come by. Most families don't have friends and family willing to help with their children and a lot of women don't have men at all. If they do, not all help with household duties. I'm just stating that that scenario, in my opinion, would be the perfect one for myself.

I would absolutely love to find employment where I can be home more. I currently work FT and I am so tired. I am actively seeking part time employment and have decided not to continue my education beyond the AA degree I just got. It takes too much time away from my family, which is my number ONE priority. I would love to have more time at the family table having meals, praying and sharing stories about our day. We try to connect at least two or three times during the week at the dinner table for prayer and "highs and lows" of our day, but to me it isn't quite enough. I want more. We have been fortunate to have family and friends carry us through our sons first year of life so that we don't have daycare costs and don't have to worry about him being in some strangers care. But, come September, we are faced with a very tough decision. I can either quit working, or stick our infant son in daycare. I don't want either. I have three weeks to figure it out. I'm so, so torn. The thought of someone other than a very, very trusted family or friend caring for him makes me panic. I just don't think I can do it. It doesn't feel right.

[RockRose]

Well,  I just had an epiphany.  I hope it comes across clearly.

I had (have) great parents.   They're still married after 50 years,  and my husband also has great parents,  married 52 years.  Both of us were raised lovingly,  with fun mothers who loved being with us and were good wives and mothers.  Home was very important,  and I have warm memories of my childhood and my stay at home mother,  as does my husband.  When I speak to my children,  my mother's words come out my mouth all by themselves (we all do that,  thank God my words are loving and caring).  I hear my mother's voice in my voice when I speak to my children,  and I have been shown a good pattern to follow,  I can't imagine how different my life would have been in daycare,  but I did get a taste of it on Thursday mornings at the Base Nursery when my mom played bridge.  I used to sit on the care workers foot and cry the whole time I was there - I remember it clearly.

Like young people who think marriage is unimportant because they've seen their parents go throught multiple meaningless bad partnerships,  I think maybe people who didn't have loving home lives with attentive mothers in their preschool years also think staying at home is unimportant - because for them,  it wasn't happy.

So.  Maybe that's it.  You had to experience a good situation to understand that it was better than daycare.

And BTW,  the CNN article,  I think I made it pretty clear that it was showing the trend of women in the workforce wasn't necessarily increasing,  to counter Peek's statement that it was increasing.  I think saying "I think this is a misspent life" maybe should have helped make the statement clear that these aren't mothers.

So,  carry on.   I really feel like this is an important point - what you grow up knowing,  you learn from,  and want to make life decisions based on personal experience.  So if you had a poor parenting situation as a preschooler,  I think we can't really bridge the debate here - because we have different perspectives on value of at home mothering.

[jenstam]

RR-I am just curiously bringing up a question here for my own personal reasons. Do you feel differently about a mother who works outside the home and leaves her children/child with grandparents, close friends or other family?

I struggle with both of these worlds. I struggle with "what nature intended" and reality. The reality is that I have five children and I need to work. I was a SAHM until my youngest daughter went to school. When I was a SAHM, I struggled with anxiety and depression and often felt like I was not even a part of the real world. I did not breastfeed my children. Interestingly enough, after having my son a year ago, I went back to work FT when he was about 3 months old. I exclusively breastfed until he was abotu 9 months old and continued part time breastfeeding until he was 11 months old. Of course, I had to pump 2-3 times while at work but until he was 6 months old I raced out to the car, drove home and nursed him so I could bond as much as possible.

In my opinion (not that you asked for it), what is ideal is if a woman can work outside the home part time. My happiness increased dramatically once I worked outside of the home when the girls went off to school full time. I bought my own car, had my own friends and made some spending money. I loved it. What didn't work out though, is my marriage. My ex husband became abusive because he was insecure. He didn't like that I had my own money and forget having friends, a social life or my own car. My keys were often hid by him and I had to walk to work, or find a ride to the store. That was his problem, not mine. Of course, my marriage probably would have lasted had I not worked outside of the home. Or not.

I guess I'm not even sure where I'm going with this, other than that there should be a happy medium. Women should be allowed to find happiness also and a happy woman can be a much better mother. I found myself so out of touch with the world around me, I forgot how to interact with adults. At friends houses, I found myself off playing with an interfering with the children more than the adults.

The ideal situation in my opinion would be a mother who has some education and a part time job. One where she can earn some money, contribute to finances and find balance between her parenting, household duties and her own social life. She should nurse her children because that is what's best. It often times is not easiest but I do believe it is best. She will hopefully have friends or family that will help care for her child because I believe it takes a village. And she will hopefully have a loving, supportive husband who will support her and help rear the children, including diaper changes, baths, and meals. THIS is the real world now. In the 50's or even 70's, men did not help with the children as much as they do now.

That's my two cents.

[peekawho]

I read it, also.  Good article--was there a connection with working mothers in some way? Again--the Med Help C word--choice.  Some women stay home.  Some go to work.  Biology and "nature" are not dictating what they choose to do.  

About cereal in a bottle....was that having a single thing to do with this discussion in some way?  
Oh, you were just trying to "enrage" me again, Rose?  One might almost think so!  Why don't you try routine infant circumcision....that might work.
If anyone wanted to hear my thoughts on those 2 issues, I'd be glad to share how I think.

Back to the topic at hand.  My "snideness" and determination that women should be free to do what they choose, whether it be working outside the home, or staying at home.
Remind me again why this is bad?

I'll tell you how my childhood worked for me, in case you were curious.

My mother (not that one persons experience amounts to a hill of beans) did not work while we were young.  My fondest memories of her and my father include her chain smoking all day long (when he was at work), drinking, and her watching TV for most of the day.  When we were old enough to go outside in the summers, she's shoo us outside after breakfast and warn us not to come back until lunch.  After lunch, back outside until dinner. After dinner, she and my dad drank and fought.

After a particularly heinous fight where the land lady came over (she lived next door) she threatened to put us all out on the streets.  Things got better after that...then there was only the fighting without the drinking, which was a big improvement.

When I was about 10-11 or so, she got a job at a fabric store.  I think it helped her a lot.  There was much less fighting (maybe they were fighting about money before..I truly don't remember what the fights were about, curiously).  Maybe she needed to be away from the house.  I don't know.  All of a sudden she had some friends, she seemed much brighter and happier, and things in my world were better.  

My sister and I were alone after school until 5 or 6, when she came home.  We were given the responsibility of doing some after school chores and sometimes got to fix an easy dinner on occasion.  Or Mom would leave a casserole for us to put in the oven.  Before my sister discovered boys, we had fun together after school w/o Mom.  After my sis discovered boys, she had fun with them after school, and I did the few chores we had and fixed dinner by myself.

Do I remember feeling lonely without my mother?  Not at all.  I remember feeling proud that I was in charge (after my sister discovered boys) of the house and was trusted to fix dinner or do some chores alone.  I was relieved when she came home, not because I had been alone for a few hours, but because now when she came home, she had a smile on her face, a kiss for my Dad when he got home, and talked about "the girls" at work, their lives, their kids, what she did at work, and we all talked.  

In the summers, we did get to go to work with her sometimes, and we got to fold some of the fabrics, or help customers sometimes.  I adored it.  We sometimes went to nearby stores and helped them if we got shooed out of Moms store.  Of course, this was a different time.

She and Dad were able to put us through college, though I was expected to get a part time job for my own extra expenses.  My sister dropped out (she was always the wild one) joined a religious cult, got married, had babies, got out of the cult, got divorced, eventually went to school on her own and has a good life.  

So that's my persepective.  

Or am I still being snide?  I often can't tell, so someone let me know.

[40smama]

I really don't want to join the debate about "Wife Swap" but I wanted to comment on the nature thing:  my mother was a SAHM.  She was hugely unhappy being stuck at home w/small children and consequently it was passed down to her family.  She was a much happier person/mother when she finally figured it out & went back to work.  Does nature intend that?

Looking back, if given the choice, I was the child who would've chosen day-care over staying w/an unhappy SAHM.  By the way, I read the CNN article and it was largely about childless women who chose to stay home - not the ones w/children.

[tiredbuthappy]

i agree- they pair extremes to create conflict.
i can't help but wonder how much of it is genuine. are these families for real? are the shows edited to show only specific aspects? rockrose- do you feel the family you knew was accurately portrayed?

[Agiesmom]

Yeah...I've seen it a few times and the ones I've seen were the most extreme of the extreme.  I personally have never met people like any of the families I've seen on that show (fortunately).  Whatever it takes for ratings, though.