My son is 10 years old and for as long as I can remember we have been having issues with his behavior. In the beginning it was stealing little things like snack cakes and pens off my desk and it progressed to stealing bigger things like my husbands watch. Added to this he lies almost constantly, sneaks around and is always making up stories to see if he can trick someone into believing him. We took all of that in stride and tried to believe that he was a normal child with behavior problems. We tried postive and negative reinforcement, time-outs, grounding, taking things away and just about everything else at one time or another. We even moved to another state to give him a new start in a new school, with new friends and in a house with his own room instead of in a tiny apartment but things just got worse and worse.
Last year he was having problems in school and nearly failed. He has already taken first grade twice and second grade twice and he nearly had to take second grade for a third time because he didnt want to do the work. Not because he can't or because he is distracted but because he thinks his teachers are too stupid to teach him anything. This year he has been better but I think it is because he has tricked the teacher into giving him most of the answers on his work and making things very easy on him because he is so small and she feels that he is being mistreated at home. They even called child services because of the stories that he told them.
We also found out that he has been peeing in his room. At first he was peeing on the clothes in his laundry basket and then he began peeing in the corners and in his clothes depending on how badly the need was. His reason for this is alternately that he is trying to teach me a lesson and that I should let him wander the house and do whatever he wants and that it is his room and he should be allowed to do anything he wants in there even pee.
When we realized that he was peeing in his room we took him to a mental hospital for inpatient treatment and they kept him for 8 days before releasing him. I was told that they could not keep him there because he was not a danger to anyone and besides he promised not to pee and would follow all the rules ect. That only lasted a few hours after he got home and he was peeing again. We moved him out of his room and into the living room so that he wouldnt have the opportunity to do it anymore and we thought that was the end of that until he tried to starve our ferrets by pretending to feed them but not actually doing it. His reason was that he was tired of them and wanted to see how long it would take them to die. I sat him down to talk about this and he told me that he was also planning to kill the cat, myself and my 10 month old because he was also tired of us. I took him back to the mental hospital where they kept him for 24 days with absolutely no improvement. This time they released him because he said that he no longer planned to kill anyone and was all better. The couselor suggested that I send him to a boys camp because even though he said he was better and they were sending him home they did not feel that he was really better.
So here we are trying to decide what we should do with our son. He is 10 years old and the size of an 8 year old, has mild Cerebral palsy and needs shots in order to grow. If I send him to this camp he will not get the chance to grow normally and wont get all the treatment for his CP. Neither of which will matter if he doesnt get the mental help he needs. I hate the idea of sending my son away because I am his mother and feel that I should be the best thing for him. The problem is that he wants to kill me and thinks that it is okay if he does. He does not express remorse for anything that he has done and never has, is extremely maniputlative and is not affected by punishments or consequences of any kind because he feels that they are only temporary and do not matter. I am nearly convinced that he is a sociopath but he is SO manipulative that the doctors havent been able to see the real child and instead see the fake one that he is so good at portraying. What can I do in this situation?
I see he takes meds (shots ) for the Celebral palsy, could they be having any side effects on him it may be a good idea to check it out with his Doctor who prescribes them, When he was in the mental hospital did they come up with any diagnosis I am assuming they ran testsI , if he was a sociopath they would know from tests they would do.You have a 10month old could your son have some jealousy issues as this happen s when they are used to being the only child and a sibling appears to usurp them, the peeing sounds like he is upset and is acting out. Have you had any Family counselling on how to handle the situation , I am sorry it is so hard for you all. Let us know how it goes.
No I am not alone. Thankfully I have a wonderful husband (his step dad) who has been a big part in trying to find help for my son. Right now he is working 60+ hours a week to support us because I can't work with my son behaving this way. My son has been tested but he is extremely manipulative and knows what to say and what not to say.
We actually got a little help today a child help group came out and assessed our home situation and my sons medical file and they are going to try to help. They are not holding out much hope because he is such an unusual case and we may still have to put him into a long term care facility but this way I will know we have tried everything else first and it is really what is best for him.
wow...I have a similar situation with my 8 year old daughter. The lack of remorse, manipulation, constant lying, peeing, trouble in school...etc. It almost seems like an abnormal lack of morality or sense on right and wrong...Not exactly the same but a lot of coincidences. I am in the proccess of getting her a full evaluation. She was seeing a therapist for 2 years, but we stopped about a year ago because I couldn't afford it and our insurance wouldn't pay for it because it was considered a pre condition.
I will say the therapy helped a lot! it helped her in that she was very manipulative even with her therapist, but over time she wasn't able to keep all her inviroments as "unaware" of eachother and it made it harder for her to manipulate. I remember 1 session when she was 5 her therapist was questioning different stories she would tell her mother and her grandmother(my mother) about eachother. The stories were manipulating them and pitting them against eachother. When really pressed as to why she makes up these stories my daughter said "I like to see them get worked up and mad at eachother. it's fun to watch". So from that point on I decided to keep very open lines of communication between all adults involved with her. Me, her teacher, mom, grandma, uncle, therapist, daycare, etc. Anyone who is in her life. She had created small differences in her realities in each inviroment to manipulate people into thinking she was being victimized as to not be held accountable. so we all talked more and it made it harder for her to do so.
I'm sorry I don't have much insight to offer, other than that you are not alone! I will pray for you and your family and if in my search for help for my daughter I come across helpful information I will come back to share.
Originally we had a very hard time getting a therapist to take us seriously. It was so frustrating because they would talk to him and evaluate him and then decide that there was nothing wrong with him and instead offered to refer me to a parenting class so that I sould better deal with the situation. It doesnt help that when they do the evaluation they need family history and I am forced to disclose the fact that I have Bipolar disorder. I tried about 6 councelors with nearly the same result and then gave up and tried things on my own. At that point he was only lying and manipulting and not doing anything that couldn't be controlled with close supervision. We even moved from Florida to Louisiana to give him a new start in a new school with smaller classes, a house with a yard and his own room and maybe the chance to get involved in some extracuricular activities. Well that bit me in the butt. We spent our savings to move and he just got worse and worse. Then I found out that I was pregnant, so now we have 2 boys and 1 income. I can't work because of his behavior and the baby gets to suffer. When he started peeing (before I got pregnant) I took him to a mental hospital and tried to get him admitted for a thorough evaluation. They wouldnt admit him at first but then I took him to a neurologist and in the process of ur discussion she got a view of his dirty look he gives when he is mad. She said her blood ran cold and she sent us to the mental hospital again. This time they kept him for 6 days and decided that it was all me, again. After he came home he told me very calmly and with a smirk that he was going to kill me then my baby because he wanted to be free of the rules in the house, my husband could live though because he was working and paying the bills. We took him back to the mental hospital and this time they kept him 22 days and after the first week and a half he let his true self be seen. Mostly because he realized that the hospital wasnt all that bad. He even smiled as he told the councelor that he was disappointed that he stressed me out all during my pregnancy, I was extremely high risk and on bed rest, and all that happened was that I went to the hospital and I didnt die. That got their attention. Unfortunately they are only accute care and couldn't really do much for his so they sent him home. Now he is on 10mg of prozac and 12mg of Abilify and if anything he is even worse now because he has nothing to fear. I took him to the mental hospital and that is the worst thing he could think of.
Dear God that is my child that you described. I was sitting here crying because I just got off the phone with a local psychiatric inpatient facility for children and the told me they probably couldn't keep her longer than a week. I said " you don't understand. She isn't going to show you who she really is in that amount of time." They apologized and that was the end of it. I feel like I want to end it all most of the time because I know where she is headed and I can't change the path. Who do you turn to when you are scared of your own child?
I am sitting here reading this, and I want to cry. I am not alone. You have no idea how that feels. We have had all the same issues with our 9 year-old son. The peeing, no remorse, the lying, manipulation. He drew a picture of me with my head cut off, and wrote a story about killing his entire family, even his grandparents. He is not my biological son, but his mother left him when he was 4. He went through the DCF system, where he was sexually molested. I am currently inquiring about a class-action law suit against that state's Department of Children and Family. He has even resorted to cutting a gash on his arm with a pencil, with the intent of telling the school counselor that we did it, in order not to be grounded to a chair anymore, so DCF would come get him. He cannot be grounded to his room anymore, because he destroyed it, and we have to keep an eye on him every second. I am scared of him, and do not know what he is capable of. When he came to me at the age of 6, he wasn't even potty trained. My husband and I keep waiting for the school to call back with an appointment with the school psychologist. They never do, but he lies and manipulates them as well. So, what are we to do? He is also small for his age, and CAN be very sweet, but it's all an act. I think the teacher, as in your case, also thinks he is being mistreated and I am certain that he lies and manipulates her as well. There is another child in the home, and one on the way. I have looked into inpatient care and long term care, and believe this will be the start of his treatment this time around. He has gone through extensive counseling in the past, but things keep getting worse and worse. Tonya, I know we don't know eachother, but from one mother to another, I want to thank you for sharing your story. But what do we do, when our children can fool educated psychological professionals?
Also, to hangingbyathread30. I want to thank you also, for sharing your story. If anyone can help us please God, leave us comments, help us. Leave us suggestions, and above all, pray for us. Our families are literally hanging in the balances. I have even threatened to leave my husband, and take my other child, but I have one on the way. I love all my family dearly. I don't want my family to be torn apart. What is going to happen to our children? My other child is nothing like this, and displays fear of the other one. What are we suppose to do? We have tried everything. We do not believe in corporal punishment. I don't think a spanking will solve years of this sort of behavior, and I cannot raise a hand to any of my children. I am desperate, and scared. My husband won't tell his parents how bad things with him are, so we get no support from them. He thinks by telling them, he'll be deemed a failure. He loves his son, but he also has no idea where to go from here. Once he has been to the mental hospital, you are right...he has nothing left to fear after that. So what now? There has got to be something we can do. There has got to be someone who can help us.
No, you are not alone, but for some reason you are or have been forced to do this alone.
First, you can request that the school start a formal evaluation. If you submit to your school a request for evaluation, "It formally opens a IEP timeline to begin the assessment and special education process." The school must arrange to meet with you in a reasonable time frame. This is not only a legal mandate, you have rights to sue their tails off if they don't.
However, I also wonder what has happened in school the last 3 years? And in your family the last 3 years? You have a new child on the way. If his actions have been relatively ok for the past two years and have only gotten crazy this year - then part of this could be in response to that. In other words he could be a very intelligent master manipulator. I can't tell from what you have said. Or he could be very intelligent with bipolar. I am including a lengthy post on bipolar just in case.
You said that he was in extensive counseling. By whom? The state or a private psychologist? And have you gotten any private counseling or seen a psychologist/psychiatrist since then? I am also curious as to when his birthday is and what grade he is in?
Anyway, below is a list of bipolar traits. Best wishes!!
Well anyway here are the list of bipolar symptoms for children. The symptoms in adults are different.
Very Common Symptoms of Early-Onset Bipolar Disorder
• Separation anxiety
• Rages & explosive temper tantrums (lasting up to several hours)
• Marked irritability
• Oppositional behavior
• Frequent mood swings
• Restlessness/ fidgetiness
• Silliness, goofiness, giddiness
• Racing thoughts
• Aggressive behavior
• Carbohydrate cravings
• Risk-taking behaviors
• Depressed mood
• Low self-esteem
• Difficulty getting up in the morning
• Social anxiety
• Oversensitivity to emotional or environmental triggers
Common Symptoms of Early-Onset Bipolar Disorder
• Bed-wetting (especially in boys)
• Night terrors
• Rapid or pressured speech
• Obsessional behavior
• Excessive daydreaming
• Compulsive behavior
• Motor & vocal tics
• Learning disabilities
• Poor short-term memory
• Lack of organization
• Fascination with gore or morbid topics
• Manipulative behavior
• Suicidal thoughts
• Destruction of property
• Hallucinations & delusions
Less Common Symptoms of Early-Onset Bipolar Disorder
• Migraine headaches
• Self-mutilating behaviors
• Cruelty to animals
My stepdaughter is 13 now and has been in the hospital 2 times for saying she wanted to kill me and kill herself (each inpatient only lasting 8-10 days). Yes she says she doesn't feel that way anymore so all is well. We have been going through therapy since she was 5, and have had her diagnosed with CD, ODD, ADD, ADHD, Anger issues, Abandonment you name it. But it doesn't stop. We don't know what to do anymore but stay calm and non confrontational with her so we can have a some what quiet life. My husband (her father) say the old joke How many psycologists does it take to change a light bulb? One but it takes a very long time and the light bulb has to want to change. This is the closest I can come to an answer. She doesn't understand and unless you have alot of money to send her somewhere what do you do? Yes she is all that is above and more. She has been physically restrained by my husband and myself 5+ times when she is extremely aggressive. We do the best we can. And pray.
I have been in a similar situation with my daughter her entire life. I have done years and years of research on the subject as well. My daughter has been daignosed with ADD, ODD, & BiPolar, yet I do not think any of those are acurate, although she does have some signs and symptoms of them all. After all the research I have done, I am almost positive she is a sociopath. Sadly, none of the medications for all the above issues ever did any good for any long period of time. Nor did any of her dozens of psychologists we have seen through the years. Nor will any of them confirm that she is a sociopath, because they are clueless on the subject. One reason they are clueless on the subject of sociopathy is because there is no help nor a cure. There is no medication or anything or anyone that can help! That is the entire problem with this issue. They cannot see reality as a normal human being, they only see their own reality in their own mind and nobody can get through to them. So, all the money in the world trying to find help is a complete and total waste of time and just causes more frustration. The law will not even help unless they have already harmed themselves or someone else. Its a bad situation and all I have ever been able to do is live the best I can day by day and do whatever it took to cope. My daughter is 18 now and living on her own, but I still get phone calls in the middle of the night and I somehow doubt it will ever change for the better.
I can also add that a sociopath usually does not ever harm animals. That is one of the first signs of a psycopath. There are huge differences between the 2. And again, do your own research and figure out for yourself what exactly that you are dealing with, sadly that is about all we can do.
We don't know what makes a sociopath or how to treat the condition. Could his problem be related to cerebral palsy? Could there be brain damage? Have they ever done a brain scan? My sympathies are with you and I wonder if you ever have a day when you can enjoy your child and laugh with him.
My heart breaks for you. I have dealt with the same issue for 6 years with my son. He's now 19 and no longer lives with us. Stick to your guns with the mental health industry, it will be a long and difficult battle. You may have to endure the pain of being judged a bad parent, but if you do not feel safe with your child in your home then refuse to take him/her home. If your child has gotten into legal trouble, this will prove to be a blessing in disguise. I demanded that my child be placed in a treatment facility, which slowed his downward spiral and kept us safe. Get yourself into counseling immediately. Find a support group. You must find a therapist for yourself and the other members of your family. Not all children with the severe problems you've described are sociopaths, if that's any comfort. Some of the descriptions, however, are extremely similar to my son's. I cannot stress enough how important it is for you to have a therapist to help YOU through this.
I started reading this today because my husband and I are at a complete loss as to what to do with our 7 year old daughter. From the time he was a year old she has been the type of child that you wouldn't be surprised to wake up in the middle of the night standing over you with a knife. She's never come out and actually said she wanted to kill somebody but she constantly does things that could endanger her 3 year old brother and 16 month old sister. She has always lied, made up outragious stories, and manipulated people. When she was 5 she went to spend the weekend with her grandparents. She wanted to stay with them longer so she told them that we made her sleep in nothing but her panties, on the floor with no blanket and that we hadn't fed her anything but a pack of ramen noodles in 3 days. When I went to the hospital to have her sister, she told her dad's cousin that our friend who watched them the night before never fed them. Luckily she was caught in that lie. She's a perfect angel at school and gets good grades. But at home she's another child. She doesn't do anything for the enjoyment of it. She only plays with her toys or with her siblings to make sure that we are watching her. She only tells you what she thinks you want to hear. She makes up things about her dad to tell me to get us fighting and then tells her dad things about me. We really don't know what to do with her. My husband has said for years that she was a sociopath but I didn't really know what that was so I didn't agree with him. Now that I've been researching it I'm starting to agree. I keep thinking that she's only going to get worse. Her great grandfather passed away last week. She claimed to be so worried about him while he was sick. When we told her that he passed, she cried for about 2 minutes then asked to play her DS. She's caused a huge rift in our family because she claimed that our 12 year old cousin graphically explained sex to her and showed her pictures. I've known and lived with him almost his whole life and he has never been like that. She told us that because we found a camera where she had convinced her 6 year old best friend to take sexual pictures of each other. I don't know what to do.
I think it possible your daughter acts out from feelings of jealousy could it be possible she has seen her younger siblings getting more attention than she does ? I doubt very much that a one year old would be as bad as you say ..In what way would you possibly believe a child of that age .would be violent ? What are the things she does to endanger the younger children can you tell us ?
I honestly hope I'm wrong about what is wrong with her but I know that something is. Its hard to explain. She's never been raised as an only child. She was raised with her cousins until she was 4, then we had her brother, plus shared a house with friends who had 3 kids, then we had her sister. She's always had plenty of attention but no matter what it's never enough for her. And she doesn't seem to care if it's good or bad attention. She taught her 16 month old sister today to crawl through the slats in our fense to get out of the yard. She watched her 3 year old brother eating poisenous berries. She always put the baby up on high things and doesn't seem to care when she falls off and gets hurt. She has no apathy when her siblings get hurt. She has no attachment towards anybody. Whoever is giving her what she wants at the moment is who she pretends to have affection for. And it's not just us. Everybody who has had close involvement with her for a period of times says that she just isn't right. What is wrong with her?
Then as you seem to belive she has 'something rong' it would be better yto speak to the Doctor ask what he thinks is going on if anything, he life does sound somewhat muddled with all these folks amd other children.I dont think you should be allowing a child of 7 years old to look after a 16 month old ,and berries cant be eaten or fence slat problems .if you are there , she is too young to be a babysitter ..
Ok first of all, I thought this was a place to share our thoughts and feelings on things with others who have similar issues, not a place to question each others parenting methods. Secondly, she is not being used as a babysitter, my husband was also outside cooking on the grill. Also, in reading back over these posts, I haven't seen any with you sharing your story. All you have done is comment on others. I came here looking for understanding and to get some insight into what other parents have had to deal with. I'm trying to do research into what may be wrong with my daughter before some small town doctor where we live trys to just dope her up on meds. If you don't have anything nice or constructive to say, then don't say anything at all, at least to me. Thank you.
I know this seems a bit odd, but have you ever taken any medicine for your bipolar disorder while pregnant? In many sociopath cases, such as Jeffrey Dahmer and Richard Chase, the mother has created a chemical imbalance in the brain which can be the direct root of your child's problem. Not your parenting. If that is the case, I suggest that you keep your child happy and monitored. Because from the way it sounds now, he is definitely a sociopath.
I hate to say this because it may sound like I wish you all harm and trial but:
"thank Gawd I'm not the only one (parent) with these identical issues!
Lies, manipulation, scapegoating, false allegations of neglect, abuse, starvation, binging till vomiting, lying to gain favor or sympathy, abuse to me and dog... Constantly slapping, choking & fish hooking my mouth.
My formerr friends avoid me to avoid facing the fact that they allow and condone my abuse but become indignant at the mention of men hitting women...today I was choking on a piece of food; I asked for help, his response was to move phone from my reach , kick me and leave as he did this he said, ewww you ldisgusting *****! Well u'r making my job easier! I'm out till they rind u'r body!
Please don't bother saying call the cops! I did this was their top results:
He's changing you with a knife? Well we don't disciplin children,
It's he said, she said and kids don't lo
If you don't come down here (I was bedridden) you will be arrested when I come up there!
As of right now he is not home...I can't sleep but his dad is snoring like a log...
Help, in reality my body is shutting down from all the epi & adrenalin dumping and my BP IS 211/121...2 months go he broke my arm; his dad will not assist me with medica
You are a doctor mr. Jones or RP? first off suggesting medications during pregnancy is the blame is conspiracy minded as well as strawman thereom not to mention Oedipus ! Besides knowing the root, is ONLY useful in defense attorney strategies. Oh and you pro DX IS SOUNDS LIKE sociopath!!! Wrong, the Psychiatric community refrains from name calling until a human is 18 yes old.Go back to school please hate disguised as rhetoric is HATE,
Now some empathetic truths...we sadly share similar realities we will hear DX from "normal kid" , lead, RADD- reactive attachment disorder, ODD-oppositional defiant, conduct disorder, narcissism , anti-social disorder, dissociative disorder to gluten intolerant...
Please don't become hung up on causes nor titles neither of which solves the problems.
No matter what this is our life so how do we best deal with it? If you are blessed use all resources to make a team- school, parents, coaches, relatives, probation, MH/MR..talk no less than weekly, same rules and rewards EVERYWHERE, no matts(don't lay down or you will stay down), ...take vacations even for one hour a day, if married make date night...and if all else fails ...buy a traveling suitcase...quick getaway for you and/or BIRTHDAY present for the child at age 18
Many of us sadly
I've read your post and I want to tell you how sorry I am. I married into a family where some of my stepchildren were grown and out of the home and some were not. One of my adult step sons is a clear sociopath, as is one of the younger ones (he is now 21, but was 11 when I married his father). Both of these boys are clear sociopaths, no doubt, no mistake. I had a granddaughter born when I first arrived. As I watched her grow, it has become clear she has some very sociopathic tendencies. As a toddler, I watched her behavior and it was clearly not the same as a normally developing toddler. to those who doubt that a child can be vindictive, mean, abusive and methodical at that age, I applaude you, that you have never been exposed to the type of children we are discussing here. It is hard to think beautiful, cherub babies have this streak, but once you meet these kids, it's clear from day one they are not a regular child. The degree of behavior varies so much from one sociopath to another, but there are very common traits. They have skills of manipulation that I cannot comprehend as a 45 year old woman. They didnt' have to learn them, they are instinctive. They get huge amounts of pleasure upsetting people and causing rifts in the family and they count on those with a regular deductive thought process to try to analyze and make excuses for what they are doing. They don't even have to bother most of the time to make up excuses, everyone around them from their parents, to their doctors are doing it for them. They feed off of our nature to think the best of people and know that we think if we can just find the missing piece to the puzzle it will all be okay.. that is their fuel. At the same time, they mean what they are doing, they are sick and cannot behave in a different way. The pain they cause is so big, that it is more often than not, we forget they cannot think or behave a different way, it's beyond their choice. it doesn't seem so, but it is. Now, the only way to deal with a sociopath is to get as far away from them as you can. I raised my stepson and at no point did I ever feel safe with him. I refuse to live with him or his brother at this point, and they ask and manipulate their father all time to move back home. If he ever lets them I will move out the same day. I had to ride out the childhood of the younger one but that is the extent of my committment. I have to limit having my granddaughter over and have three people in charge of watching her when she does come over and the other grandkids are around. I've caught this sweet innocent cherub child hitting others with a bat, pushing them down flights of stairs, locking them in a garage and trying to get one to take pills she had "found" someplace. She has been thrown out of every classroom she has been in and her parents get daily phone calls from teachers, school staff ect. They call to ask us what they should do and all I can tell them is to put a camera in her and the other childrens room, let her know that you can see and are recording everything she does and hope that works for awhile. Their strength is in their lies. Once there is no doubt, they have no use for the lie anymore and move on to the next one, they are incapable of remorse, but get good at faking it. They cannot be fixed, medicated, counseled out of it or trained to control it. All you can do is survive their childhood, hope they don't reproduce and get as far away from the adult them as possible. I hope this helps. You are not to blame. Bi-polar drugs or whatever blame these people are trying to throw at you.. you carry enough guilt being the parent of a sociopath, don't listen to them. do your best, then get out.
I'm so glad I found this discussion. I'm the soon to be ex-stepmother of a sociopathic little girl. I'm divorcing because my husband refurses to believe that there is something wrong with his 'princess'. He thinks she will outgrow her problems but instead, they keep getting worse and worse.
When I married her father, she was 8 but she used to act and talk like a two year old. She would even go to the extent of pooping her pants if she didn't get her way. She finally grew out of the two year old act but still poops herslef whenever she doesn't get what she wants. She lies, steels, and manipulates all the time. She will tell you that she loves you and then expect a prize for it. When she is being talked to about her behaviour, it goes in one year and out the other. She would give us that "I don't give a f****" look.
She steels, a lot. At first it was things she actually wanted like candy at the store, or my makeup that she wanted to play with, but now she steels for the sake of steeling. Recently, one of her father's friends informed us that his wife and he are missing a pair of fuzzy handcuffs and a pink vibrator. A few days later, her boi-mother told us that she found a pair of fuzzy handcuffs and a vibrator in her closet. Why would an 11 year old girl need those things? Does she even know what they're for? Recently, I had a couple of credit cards that disappeared from my wallet, when the only people who were home were me, my stepdaughter, and my soon to be ex-husband. He also noticed that he is "loosing" money from his wallet but he refuses to believe that it's her who takes it, although she spends her birthday money but never runs out of it.
When she is caught with the things she's stolen, she lies and cries saying she didn't take them and puts the blame on us. According to her, we gave her the things and are now accusing her of steeling them.
When she does something bad, she always blames someone else for the act.
She's incapable of love. One time, she even told her father that she only loves him when she could use him. And if she doesn't get what she wants, then she hates him.
She lies at school and manipulates the teachers. We've all been called into the school because according to her, she is being abused at home. Supposedly, her mother and I always go out to bars in the middle of the night and come home, throw up on her, and make her clean it up. Her mother and I are civil to each other, but we don't go out drinking together, never have never will. Upon interigating her, we learned that she made up that lie because her mother told her to either behave better or no trick or treating on Halloween.
She's also told her school that I make her sleep outside in the yard because I hate her so much. That's absurd! She has her own room and more run of my house and I do.
She threatened to kill the family dog because I care about him and I shouldn't love anyone but her. She's also convinced her father that if he loves anyone other then her, then he's a bad daddy. When she comes over for the weekends, he tells her that he only married me so that he wouldn't be lonely when she's not there because other wise, if she knew that he actually loved me, she would throw a very big fit.
Some of my in-laws are convinsed that she is dangerous and they don't invite us to their house when we have her. Her aunt, cousin, and grandma even warned me not to have any kids of my own because she's likely to kill them and make it look like it was me just so she could have all the love and attention on her.
My exhusband and I are divorcing because I think his daughter needs a lot of help and he refuses to take the rose colored glasses off.
Okay everyone shut up and listen to the actual sociopath.
OKAY I AM GOING TO CAPAITALIZE THIS SO THAT IT WILL GET YOUR ATTENION.
Got it? Good. Firstly, I have the most mild form of sociopathy, which means I have some form of a conscious. A conscious with "holes". I do love my family dearly. However I am a dysocial sociopath, which means I have a very strong loyalty towards my family, and he may not be like me. In fact, I seriously doubt it.
Here's the deal: your son seems to be a full out psychopathic little boy. I was the way he was, however my mother was a tough *****, and there was absolutely no way to get my manipulating/lies by her, so I just tried my hardest to stop. Because of this practice, I've got a very great deal of control over my manipulative ways.
I suggest you are STRICT with your son. STRICT, STRICT, STRIIICTT. I was out of control. I can honestly say because of my mom and teachers, I stopped my progress of becoming a full-fleged psychopath. Although my mom loved me too much to ever suspect I was anything but a difficult child. >:) Even now I still love manipulating her, but MUCH more subtly and less emotionally damaging way because, well, I love her In my own way.
Take your son to a psychiatrist. Tell his psychiatrist that you have a strong reason to believe that he may be a sociopath, and he's veryyy manipulating so his doctor will try to see past his deceptions. Also, just by reading your writing, I have already got the impression that you're letting your love for him blind you. Don't allow yourself to do that. Try to get him to see that nothing can get by you.
Uh, I'm hesitant to say this, but... He may not, well, ever completely love you the way you love him. We love selfishly. We only love when it benefits ourselves. Once he's older, if he doesn't change his ways now, you're going to have to love him from afar or else he'll crush your heart. It's what we do, it's what we are.
It is very relieving to know that my wife and I are not alone. My 12 year old stepson has shown a lot of similarities to the children described in these posts. The lying, the manipulating, aggression, disrespect, lack of emotions or concern for anyone but himself, and the list goes on. When he was 7, he urinated in a spray bottle and sprayed everything including the rest of us in the household. We have joint custody of him during the summer. Most of the year he lives with his father and stepmother. He constantly tells us how horrible he is treated at his father's and then goes back to his father's house to tell them how horrible we treat him. We noticed his behavior getting worse and all four of us agreed it was time for him to see a therapist. He was diagnosed with ODD, ADHD, and CD, with a high potential for ASPD when he gets older. My wife and I know how hard it is to deal with children like this and there really isn't much out there for support groups so we created a Facebook page (I know its not much) for parents like us that are at wit's end that just wished someone out there knew what it feels like to go through this. So if anyone reads this post looking for the same thing please join us at http://www.facebook.com/***********************************************************
I realize this post is years later, but I am just now divorcing my husband (who i believe is a psychopath). For 9 years, I raised his son like my own (he was 7 1/2 when I came into his life). Now he is 16 1/2. It sounds like the same story, except it wasn't wetting, it was breaking things. We never enrolled him for pysch evaluation.
I am sad to say that I feel like I've had very little influence on many of his bad behaviors.... He still lies - even for no purpose, he's very manipulative, self-centered, unpunishable.... He does not learn from hismistakes. He seems to have no conscience, impulsive. He is a handsome boy and sweet, but the sweetness is to manipulate to get what he wants. Every year, his female teachers are manipulated by his sweetness and they let him get by with stuff until 2nd semester. Then they start seeing thru it. Now that he's in h.s., he's had more men teachers, and they don't fall for it.
Has to have immediate gratification
And immediate consequences
Low verbal/English skills
Parrots social behavior to cover up what he doesn't understand
Refuses to study - thinks he shouldn't have to do the work. Thinks things that apply to other people shouldn't apply to him
Treats girls with little respect
Found out he was smoking pot and k2 (lied convincingly about it)
Needless to say, I saw concerning behavior when he was 7, he is becoming the person I was scared he would become. It's been like standing in front of a train that is on a collision course.
My nephew has all the same traits as the others . At the age of 8 he had had his mother thrown out of two appartments, lit a fire in one ,and knocked another childs teeth out. He convinced child services he was being abused and all her children were taken.While in foster care he stole money and broke into rooms to steel others things .The only punishment was just to move him to another home. He has made the statement to his mother that things would be better if it were just him.He's home now and so are his siblings. My sister has been taking him to emergency meetings daily in reguards to , self destructive behavior and hurting others. He kicks at his mother and when she restrains him , he has begun threatining to tell on her. even the power struggles that include him bashing his head on the floor , seem to feed the demon(for lack of a better term)I've seen everything you describe, and pray for you all
I have read several posts and am glad to see I am not alone. I am currently in a same sex relationship with a Caucasian woman and I am an African American woman. I have often stated to my girlfriend that I am considered for her younger son who is ten years old. He continues to wet the bed, binge eats (obsessed with food consumption), manipulative, has a grandiose perception, intrigued with arson, fantasizes about murder (video gaming). His mother and father are going through a divorce; his father has a family and personal history of severe substance abuse, domestic violence, revolving door of mental health issues and suicidal ideations. The mother and father meet in treatment at the age of 16 and 14 due to suicidal attempt on mother’s part and the father manipulating the system to avoid incarceration. The father grew up severally impoverished in an abusive, unstructured home with only an eighth grade education. The mother a submissive upper middle class only child; encouraged but stifled with self-esteem issues and an eleventh grade education. However, the child and his three siblings currently live with his father by choice often expressed by the fact that the mother encourages structure not by any means in extremity. In example simple things such as bed-times, chores, doing homework or having manners. The father often verbalizes his hate for the mother for her choice of leaving the unstable and abusive relationship. The children are told the mother does not care about them and she is a liar, cheater and has hurt the father beyond repair. The mother shares nothing regarding the relationship she agrees it is inappropriate and not essential for their well-being. The father often reduces his self to outward emotional outburst (violent crying fits, verbal assaults & property damage of home). The ten year old is the youngest and was daunted over by mother due to her previous pregnancy ending in the first trimester. He is teased by siblings and peers for being whinny, weak and obese. Six months ago he admitted he has suicidal ideations. Although, the ten year old has a loner personality the entire family structure is very much submissive to outsiders; he and his siblings have very addicting personalities. By example there is a cult like submission to negative, personal and outside influences. All of the children idealize the father and all of his behaviors. The home were the children reside has no structure, nurturing or peace. The ten year old only experiences and visualizes love in our home on court-ordered weekend visits. I am very respecting and attentive of their mother. Their father addressed her as “******* *****” and they argued constantly. He is is very demanding of his mother’s affection. Recently, he has went from an A student from a year ago when the mother was in the home to a B and C student. This child is very intelligent and capable but not required of being a good student by the father. He does attend church but I feel church is his escape from chaos he has been compulsive about being baptized. He was told that was his last step in being saved by the Baptist Church which he attends due to the bus retrieving him for attendance. After a year of encouragement the mother has finally placed the child in counseling. But the unstable environment is constant, irrational and a breeding ground of his grandiose perception.
I have the same situation with my stepson. He s ten but I know him since he was six. He is always misbehaving, constantly but I mean constantly lying and defying. He has an obsession with eating his boogers and with breaking things. He is highly manipulative and he lies to his mom so she can get mad at me and hi does the same with his dad, he tells him that I am bad and blames me for all that bad things that happen to him. He also blames his mom (my wife), for example, if he looses his iPod is her fault. He used to hit me in the face, punch me, kick me, rob my things, and even break my things, I won even mention the beatings he use to give to his mom. I we went shopping, anyone who came into his path got hit (men, women, babies, kids, elders... anyone). When we go out with him 90% of the time he crashes down the day, at malls, restaurants, family or friends homes, movies theater. Is freaking crazy!
Me and his mom have two year old daughter, and when he knew that his mom got pregnant he got so mad and stared threatening us that he was gonna tell his father. When the baby was born one day I found him poking the baby's belly with a toy ninja sword, as in stabbing her. Hi sticks his boogers in the baby's hair, pushes her, and even threaten to beat her. Since then I don let him alone with the baby.
He is always drawing guns, swords, or people killing. He is always playing as he has a gun and start killing people and the he shoot himself. He is almost alway alone at school and always threatening other kids, he doesn't follow rules, and always sneaking. he pinches himself and doesn't clean himself after going o the bathroom. He is always making up fake stories so people can see him as a victim and manipulate them into getting whatever he wants.
His mom took him to the psychologist and they said that the boy was more than well that it was me who was suppose to change. He convinced the therapist that he was behaving like that because I was bad. The fun thing is that during the first 7 -8 months that I met him I never said anything behavior and even tried to tech him about respect, moral and good manners. I asked his dad, mom, and therapist if even during that time it was also my fault. They got mad! In a later conversation with his mom it came out that the kid has been like that before I met her.
To make the long story short, I am currently unemployed but I started to have counseling from a lawyer to see how I can leave the house and get the custody of the baby since my wife has shown to be negligent, irresponsible, and close minded about her son's behavior (whenever she gets mad at him she takes him to the psychologist for two or three sessions and then she stops going because she thinks the kid has improved.) Every time I complain about the kid she gets mad at me. She even tend to be more protective to him than to the baby.
I have demonstrated her how her son is a threat to our daughter, and even she has seen it but she does not realizes it. It is hurtful and difficult to look for a way out but I have to protect my daughter. Any advise?
It's perfectly normal, don't worry. I used to do way worse than that when i was a kid and today I'm a perfectly fit and functional member of society.
Seriously don't worry about it, and above all don't let the members of the girl's family guilt trip you into believing that there's something wrong with your son. So what if they can still hear her muffled screams in their sleep? Everybody has problems yet you don't hear me complaining about what I hear in my head.
It seems that if this is such a common problem with children, there ought to be more information available, and at the very least, these psychological tests should be able to detect contradiction in the most subtle ways. Perhaps try inquiring at your local university to see if any of the professors can advise you of recent studies. If I were going trough this, I'd try to change the system by banding together with other similar families and gaining national attention in order to protect these children from themselves. My heart goes out to every single parent and sibling going through this, as parenting is already difficult enough! My thoughts are with you all.
I have a similar situation with 1 of my 2 daughters. Her mother (my ex-wife) is a sociopath overlapping with borderline/histrionic traits. My eldest is following in her mother's shoes, but my youngest shows no signs of the disorder at all.
The only things I have learned are:
1) Never ever ever give up on your child. Ever.
2) Lead your life as the best positive role model you can be.
3) Surround your child with other positive/healthy/loving family and friends. Psycopaths/Sociopaths can learn by example and will imitate behavior when conflicted.
4) Never forget that your child's version of reality may be fundamentally different than yours. When your child acts out try to empathize rather than criticize because they just CANNOT understand.
5) Do not be afraid to seek professional help for your child and for you. You may need counseling and medication at times in order to endure this tremendous task. Don't be ashamed to ask for help, get advice, or take medication if it becomes overwhelming. You cannot be there for others if you are not there for yourself first.
6) Find acceptance of your situation and search for the good in it. Don't dwell in the "why is this happening to me?" thoughts. Instead remember that sociopaths have talents. Many artists, actors, and business leaders are psychopaths.
I am so glad I did a search and discovered everybody that is suffering through raising a child with severe mental challenges. We are not alone! I was searching for therapeutic services for raising a sociopath and I landed here. I guess what path I have been on for the past 6 years has been the right answer and treatment plan up until now. I am tired of the run around and I want action for my child's disability. I am working with Recipient Rights and Child Protective Services against a major mental health agency. I am appealing a denial for long term residential treatment for my 10 year old adopted daughter. Actually, the case was closed before I could respond to it and now I am appealing to an even higher level with the state government for action to help my daughter. Tomorrow is just the first steps of many towards major change in our messed up mental health system in regards to direct therapeutic services for our explosive, aggressive, life-threatening children that we are raising.
If I am not able to manage long term residential treatment for my daughter there better be an alternate safety plan for my home. I am not safe, my husband is not safe, my adult sons are not safe and neither are our animals. We have police reports, letters written, school reports, letters from professionals that she aggressively attacked, etc. I have been stabbed, sliced, welted and bruised up where my husband is typically bleeding pretty badly but is in denial because she is a girl! UGH.
My daughter needs help and I will not stop until she gets it! I was told by Child Protective Services that we would have two options; to take all the money out of our home and pay cash for her residential treatment or give up our parental rights and give her to the courts. What! I do not think so. My daughter suffers from several mental illnesses, Reactive Attachment Disorder-Disinhibited, Bipolar, Oppositional Defiance Disorder, Learning Disability with a mild intellectual disorder. I will not give her to the courts she suffers with a mental illness and will never be placed or abused and then abuse more against others within the system. I do not ever want to face giving up my parental rights after saving her from the orphan life she came from caught up in foster care.
Somehow I will find the strengthen to challenge the system to provide for our children who so desperately need our help. I will not give up. CPS will be at my first meeting tomorrow because our mental health agency is neglecting our child of services and therapy. Most people believe CPS is in the business to take children away from parents but if they discover that there is a lack of requested services for a child in need CPS can be very helpful. They have funds that non-profit agencies do not.
This sounds like my step-son. He was diagnosed with ADHD, ODD and mild Asbergers syndrome. He started having issues around age 9. To top it off, when his mom and dad divorced, she literally abandoned him for four years It's like the only moment he can live in is right now. He cant remember punishment from yesterday to be able to make a good decision today, and tomorrow everything fom yesterday no longer exists. It's so sad, but at 18, we finally had to ask him to leave. He now lives with his Uncle, but that is getting ready to fall apart too. His Uncle finally realizes what we have been going through--we were looked at as "bad parents" for several years.
Although my step-son has many issues, he does have a conscience. The main issue is my step-daughter, and I'm wondering if she is a sociopath with narcissistic tendencies. She has never been physically violent--but I have witnessed her kick our cat in the face and laugh about kicking another child at school in the stomach. She is 17 now, and ever since her father and I moved in together 5 years ago, her emotional abuse towards us, especially her father, has never stopped. The day we moved in, I set up a desk for her and my daughter to share. I gave half of it to my daughter and half of it to my step-daughter. The next day, all of my daughter's belongings were boxed up and in the basement. She has treated my children so badly, we started family counseling. I actually thought it helped, but the sad fact was that she just began hiding things better. She has stolen from us and my children several times. I can watch her do something evil, and when I confront her, she'll say "It wasn't me."
She has no friends, but if she thinks she can get something out of someone, she will use them. She once spent the night with a girl she spoke so badly of and we couldn't figure out why. Come to find out, the girl was giving her her old Blackberry phone. She was caught red-handed with my daughter's money and when she was confronted by my son, she said that she was teaching my daughter a lesson for leaving her money lying around.
She seems very immature for her age and at age 17, is OBSESSED with Katy Perry and Bones. I mean obsessed, not a normal teenager obsession--something that is abnormal. She makes plans that are like fairy tales, and will take anyone down that tries to interfere. She lies constantly about eveything and her manipulation abilities far exceed that of an adult, let alone a teenager. She has convinced the owner of her dance school that we have pretty much abused and neglected her, going so far as to pretend like she has an eating disorder when she stays with her. She told her dance teacher we were leaving her home alone on Christmas day, that the whole family going on vacation without her out of the country and that she wasn't invited, that her dad told her for no reason that she couldn't see any of her friends for the whole summer, that her dad was kicking her out, that we weren't going to help with college, way too many things to list, but in every case, she was able to get material things from her dance teacher, along with a lot of pity. Blatant lies and manipulation and its very embarassing.
She can post something filthy mouthed and horribly evil about her dad on the internet, and turn around and come sit on his lap an put her arms around him and call him daddy while she asks him to buy her something. She is completely obsessed with possessions. If she doesn't have something she wants, she will manipulate someone into getting it for her or steal it. She tries to befriend adults of authority--teachers, etc., but if they won't give her the attention she wants, she ends up hating them. Any other friends she has had have been several years younger than her, and those relationships never seem to last.
At first, her dad didn't accept any of it, but after long it became apparent he didn't have a choice. He has become very strict with her and will no longer let her manipulate or lie to him. Now she absolutely hates him with a passion like I've never seen a child hate. All teenagers go through things with their parents. This is downright scary. But when she can be in a rage one minute, and then an hour later be back to her normal, sweet self, it is hard for us not to second guess ourselves. When her mom and dad divorced, her mom abandoned her for four years and now her mom has come back into her life and is buying her all kinds of things. We are quite positive her mom is a sociopath with BPD. The only connection they have ever shared is their obsession with buying. Her mom is a drug-addict/alcoholic who has supposedly stopped, but she still lives with the drug dealer she left my husband for who had just spent 5 years in prison.
I feel like my step-daughter is soul-less. At one point, I had a pair of capris in my closet that I bought my daughter, but the didn't have my step-daughters size. I always have tried to make sure they were treated equally, so I wanted to buy something for my step-daughter before I gave them to my daughter. My step-daughter found them and asked me who they were for. I told her they were for my daughter. I had a new sweater for myself hanging next the the capris. I had tried it on in the store. Our laundry room is across from my room. Later that day, I caught her coming out of my room, but pretending to be coming out of the laundry room. The next day I put the sweater on to wear it work and the entire back had been cut out of it. I didn't see her do, so I could never prove it, but I know in my heart it was her. Nothing she ever does is outward. The same thing with her mother. Her mother has stolen things from my car, did damage to my house, and she is the one who left my husband.
Because the lying and her hatred for us has become so bad, we did something we never said we would do and have decided to let her live with her mother. We know it isn't a good thing, but we're really hoping it doesn't last long. She thinks it will be great because her mom will buy her anything she wants, even though she hasn't spent a night with her mother in four years. She scares us, because she is so passive-aggressive, most of the time we don't even know what hit us until after the fact. There is NEVER remorse or guilt. Only joy for any conflict she causes. The more we catch her and confront her, the sneakier she becomes. We have had her in counseling with two separate counselors, but now she refuses to go at all, because the counselor wanted to test her for Borderline Personality Disorder, Antisocial Disorder and Mood disorders, but he felt she was a classic case of BPD with sociopathic tendencies.
Does anyone know if sociopathic tendencies are inherited? Does my step-daughter sound like she could be a sociopath?
I would just like to hear, from someone, if my situation is similar.
I didn't experience the bed wetting when young nor did I notice outward manipulation--It could have been that I was a single parent and just trying to keep all of the balls in the air that I didn't see it.... BUT- my son is now 19 and seems to display sociopathic tendencies-- such as:
Manipulation of others
Utter disregard for authority
Lack of responsibilty for actions
Self serving only--doesn't seem to care who he hurts
I had him in counseling for years and the only thing he seemed to learn is master manipulation. He went so far as to turn me into social services after letting him know that he needed to make other living arrangements (at the age of 17) after he refused to stop smoking pot and also exposing his younger brother to it. He told such elaborate stories to everyone involved that it made me look like I was a drug addict that couldn't get out of bed--which I do NOT do drugs. We live in a nice home in an affluent neighborhood that I've worked hard to provide.....yet, during that time, he made it sound like he lived on the streets.
I am searching for answers. He's highly intelligent-- is enrolled in a four year university-- and, because of his behavior over winter break, I've had to change the locks and remove him from our home. He can charm the socks off of anyone--which is what he did when I was being investigated-- and doesn't have any regard to consequences--in fact, stating that it's other people doing it to him.... Is my son a sociopath? I've spent so many sleepless nights blaming myself for his behavior, an answer might be nice...any guidance would be appreciated.
In my quest to understand/figure out my 7 year old son, I came accross this site. Since the age of 1 1/2, there has been something a little different about him. He was a quiet and observant baby until he started to walk. At 2 he learned to climb on the kitchen counter to sneak food out of the cabinets. He did this weather he was full or hungry. He would also climb on them and wait for someone to come into the kitchen so that he could spray them with hot water from the vegitable sprayer (yes he knew hot from cold and always used hot). He began to eat things like dog poop, plug in air fresheners,sillica gel packs, and wood. I have poison control on speed dial. Thankfully he hasn't eaten anything in the last year. He does passive-agressive things to his younger brother like talking him into eating a battery, hitting him, scratching him, slamming his fingers in things, pulling things out from under him. He will take something right out of another kids hands if he wants what they have. He never shows remorse for these things. In fact, he laughs about them. His reasons for doing those things are always because the 4 year old did something first. I however know for a fact that only about 30% of the time that is true. If he sees anyone get hurt, weather by his own actions or not, he laughs at them. He steals little things mostly from the check out isle in the store and his older and younger brother's money. The first week of 1st grade, he stole play money from school. I have caught him picking our dog up by his throat and throwing him down on the sofa. Our dog recently had puppies and on more than one ocassion, his brothers and I caught him throwing the puppies. If he wants something, he'll just take it. If he want's to do something, he'll just do it. I tell people that he is my live in the moment child. That's exactly how he opperates. He has been taught from the begining (I'm a stickler for consistancy) that there are consequenses to his actions but in the moment he doesn't seem to care about them. I know that if I don't hear him for a period of time, that he is in a room doing something he shouldn't be doing. When I dicipline him, he stares at me without blinking until I'm creeped out enough that I look away. The look in his eyes when he's doing that is one that lets you know he is thinking something along the lines of "I hope you die in a car crash" or worse "Don't sleep to hard tonight" and after he gets punished he will say loud enough (but not to my face) "I hate you". He reads above grade level and seems to have no problems in any subject in school. My family thinks it's just "middle child syndrome" and he will grow out of it. His father's family thinks that he is the sweetest thing and they laugh when I tell them the things he does. They have no idea what the "real" him looks like. He lies about EVERYTHING. I'm pretty good and catching him in the lies for now but, I'm afraid it's going to get much worse. He doesn't like to be hugged or kissed. He plays it off like he thinks it's funny that I want to hug him but his body language, when hugged, is stiff and uncomfortable. I haven't had a "real" hug from him in years. He often says perverted or gross things at the most inappropriate times such as church and resturants or the dinner table and laughs about it. He has exposed himself to my best friends daughter and when he was 4 he set the carpet on fire. I haven't had to deal with him wetting the bed but he has peed and pooped in a bucket outside on more than one occasion.
I'm a single mother of three biological children and I'm also raising my ex's son. I've spent the last six months trying to help them and I'm now unemployed due to all of the doctor and therapy appointments. My step son is undergoing tests for Apsergers, my 9 year old was just diagnosed with ADHD and Dyslexia, and my 4 year old is a Migrain sufferer and when you add his behavior on top of it, it gets overwhelming. The therapist is tossing around the idea that he too has Aspergers but, I think it's so much more than that. Does anyone out there have any suggestions? Am I looking at dealing with a sociopathic child?
I truly feel for all of you going through this,it isn't fair or right the way some doctors are so quick to say nope its you not your child. Would you really take the time to go through all of this if it was just that easy. I don't have any answers but I hope your days get brighter. Here's a though for all that have children who show a different side to the doctor how about a camera up without them knowing that way when they act different you have proof of what you have been going through. Good luck
You are so right about the Dr's seeing the good side and thinking its more the parents problem than the childs. I just get so frustrated because with every other type of disability out there, there are correct labels and then medication and strategies for what to do to actually GET HELP! With us and our children, THERE IS NONE! As much as my heart goes out to all these parents of children with Autism, I still literally feel angry when I hear all over TV of all the awareness and help groups now for Autism and so many others, but NOTHING for us because there is truly no real awareness, even for most of the professionals because they know that most therapy and medications don't work for sociopathic children. It is truly sad!
My daughter just turned 11 a few weeks ago, and I have been dealing with pretty much ALL of these symptoms since she was 2-3 years of age......
So much now.....that she has almost convinced her teacher and counselor (5th grade) that it is ALL MY FAULT that she is failing 5th grade, and that she does NOTHING wrong!
I have taken her for multiple testing to multiple doctors......but no one wants to diagnose an 11 year old with being a sociopath.......or bi-polar disorder.....
BUT I am the one that has to live with her, and try to find new ways to try to deal with her outbursts, lack of empathy, lack of affection, lying, stealing, nothing is EVER her fault.....she thinks she is LITERALLY above doing any type of homework or schoolwork........and will lie to me and then to her teacher......(different lies.....her teacher she blames me.....at home she says she is sorry, she forgot, etc, etc).
But yet I have NEVER seen her upset for being "Sorry"
When I was a child and I did something wrong, or got in trouble I ACTUALLY felt bad.......my daughter DOESN'T feel bad in the least.
The ONLY time I have seen her upset is when she gets "Caught"!!!
I could write a book, can anyone lend me ANY advice? Or help? Or encouragement?
I LOVE my daughter to DEATH, I just don't feel that she feels the same way..........or EVEN cares at all.....
My daughter has acted the same way since she was about 2. She get scolded or grounded and she will laugh (and now at 11 years of age) she will yell and slam doors in my face......telling me how much she "hates me" or that she is "Going to call the police because ......"I am MEAN!") She has figured out at THIS age how to manipulate the system. She is the best liar I have EVER met!......All the doctors seem to think that she will grow out of it, or want to blame it all on me (thanks to her manipulation)......
My ex-husband was a sociopath. And my daughter, as MUCH AS I LOVE HER.....seems to be the epitome of my husband....... And I have done A LOT of researching, and Everything that I have read says that is is, in fact hereditary.......but that doctors WILL NOT diagnose until after the age of eighteen.
Actually over on the ADHD forum I have seen these same characteristics mentioned. If she has something like ADD, it would explain a lot about her actions. You might want to check out this site and see if any of the symptoms sound familiar!
I just have a question on your post. When your ex was in the home, how was the situation? What I mean was, did she witness a lot of fighting, or even any violence? The reason I ask is that I work for a social services agency, and one of the things we have is a school for kids where the focus is working with the entire family. Many of these kids come from homes where there was violence, addiction issues, very unstable environments. And your daughters behavior are issues we see a lot of. Even when the home has become stablized, it often takes our kids a long time to work through their anger and the emtions surrounding the break up of their family (even if one parent was outright abusive, the kids miss that parent and often silently blame themselves). These kids also become quite manipulative as a means of self protection. I am not in anyway, shape or form suggesting you are or ever were abusive or neglectful. I only bring this up as you mention your ex (I am assuming her father?) is a sociopath, and that cannot have made for a very good homelife for you or her. And if this is the case, then it's great you have him out of the home and I have no doubt you are doing everything you can. I am just suggesting a possible reason for her actions. Whatever the case, I wish you all the best.
I hope I am not out of line suggesting this, or inquiring... but have any of you at wit's end considered bringing your child to a respected regression therapist? I've heard that they can help with lots of emotional and mental issues that are deep in the consciousness. I am sorry to everyone dealing with such hard issues such as these, and hope and pray for the best for you all, and all of your children.
My 7 year old daughter is starting to display the same behavior and I am overwhelmed. She is very impulsive, very rarely shows remorse, is becoming cruel to animals and people. I am seeking help and doing research online. I cant put my daughter in any activities due to her social behavior and defiance. She seems to thrive on negativity and I have tried every approach I can think of. She is so impulsive, it is in one ear and out the other as if she has no conscience. I am a single parent and have my hands full, I can not have kids over to play because she will start to be mean to them. I want her to have friends but she cant handle them or treat people properly. There are other symptoms but the ones I listed are the more severe ones. I cannot trust her around animals because she will injure them and pull on their limbs. A week ago on the farm she was carrying a cat around and when the cat wanted to be let go she wouldnt let him go so the cat scratched her. She did something to the cat, who proceeded to climb up a tree and not come out. The next day we found the cat dead at the base of the tree. Today she had a friend from school over and proceeded to throw a gravel rock at him and it cut his head open pretty good. The only reason why she apologized because I was infuriated, and as for the cat...what cat? Something is not right with my daughter. I hope for her to have a normal child hood, a normal life. It is the diagnosis, cause, effect and treatment that I am looking for.
A very important question is how does she do at school? Has she had referrals for being mean on the playgrounds or at lunch? Can she sit still in the classroom or is she interrupting what is going on? Has either the principal or the teacher (this year or in the past) called you with concerns. How are her grades? Has there been a change in her grades between this year and last year?
She has improved in school from the beginning of the school year. She would have crying fits and get frustrated very easily and still does. She is in a reading group and has a reading tutor one on one. She is not violent or defiant in class. Gives up easily hence leads to the crying and I cant do it scenario. Or does her work too fast and doesnt pay attention to it. The teacher says she is very observant and suggestive and creative in class, but lacks social interaction and friends. She failed teamwork in p.e..she is really lacking in the social department as far as friends go. She can be very rude and impulsive with other kids..example being physically rough with them or saying impulsive things. She can be down right mean and shes aware of what she is doing. When you ask her why she did what she did she will say " I dont Know", and go back about her business. I just am shocked for the lack of absorption for cruel acts that she demonstrates.
Thanks for the added information. I am assuming she is in second grade? Is she young for the grade level - birthday after September? You mentioned reading problems. Is English her first language? Is it the language spoken at home?
The above things do make a difference. I can understand why you are worried. There are a couple of possibilities. The one I am leaning towards is ADHD. I have been monitoring the ADHD site for years and many of her acts have been similar to other posts on the site or my own experience working with kids. This doesn't mean she has ADHD, but it would explain a lot.
Kids (especially young kids) with ADHD have no "filters" They do things impulsively and many time are not even aware they have done it. They may do what seems like cruel things, but its usually because they haven't thought about the action. Friends with other kids can be difficult. And, of course, grades can suffer.
For a list of symptoms this site is pretty good. Although I have many more I can recommend. Go to - http://www.rxlist.com/attention_deficit_hyperactivity_disorder_adhd/article.htm#tocb
If you need more information about ADHD, I suggest you start a post here - http://www.medhelp.org/forums/ADD---ADHD/show/175.
That way I can answer any more questions you might have about ADHD and what to do. And, of course, it may not be ADHD and hopefully others may give their opinions about what is going on. Hope to hear from you again.
I came across this site when researching sociopathic behavior in children. My boyfriend has taken custody of his 9 year old son, and I am seeing behavior traits in him which concern me.
I have not witnessed any peeing, whcih seems to be a common occurance based on the above posts however he is doing poorly in school, has displayed bullying and aggressive behavior towards others, including beating up a much older boy, has an unrealistic sense of everything is his and he owns it and paid for it, even when clearly he did not, when he is reprimanded or spoken to, he shuts down and ignoors his father, and i am now more and more seeing him stare at his father when this happens, a cold dark stare which has instilled fear in me.
He is attached to his father like no other child i have ever seen in my life, and sometimes follows me around ths house stuck to me like glue. He interrupts our conversations, answers for his father, has to know everything going on. He has not stolen that I know of, however he eats everything in sight. This past weekend I caught him THREE times while his father was in the shower, standing in my bedroom doorway (he thought i was sleeping) staring at me. His brother has pulled a knife on his father, I have not seen that behavior yet from this child, however he watches westerns and killing movies / horror movies, is obsessed with guns, etc.
His speach is often slurred and hard to understand, and he can barely read. He told me when he takes a test, he has to stand, and when he is worried, he has to sit. He also awakes nightly screaming for his father, even if his father is beside him. He then claims he does not remember this. He told my daughter that he controls his father, that his father will do as he says and that if he doesnt want to come to our house anymore, his father will never see us again. Then he lies and tells his father he never said it. He gets out of everything by crying and manipulating his father.
He has been getting in trouble in school, and I believe bullying his older brothers. He wants nothing to do with his mother, and tells her he is never coming home.
My gut is telling me something is wrong, very wrong, or at least headed in that direction. He scares me, especially with that stare or watching me as i sleep.
Am I paranoid, or am i seeing early signs of something to be very concerned about?
Came across this thread accidentally searching for info on my sons ASD social issues. Oh my...It is interesting and so very sad and disturbing. It seems that there is no help out there when you need it for this extreme circumstance. Just a thought, can you call the FBI criminal profile unit? Since they are people interested in figuring out what happened in childhood usually in their cases of murders/serial killers who are sometimes sociopaths (NOT that your child will be one, just thinking of an idea to help you find help with anybody in that field who may help), maybe they can serve as an adovate since certain behavior might lead to those types of crimes. Maybe they can serve as a resource to help find ways to stop serious problems before escalating? Maybe they would want to study your child and family for their research (maybe intrusive but help is help and well worth the sacrifice) and in the process that they will see the obvious signs and want to prevent any more future problems in a field they work in, and will then help you find resources to help you. I feel for you who are going through this. May God bless you and keep your family safe and healthy, Never stop trying different things until you get help you all deserve. One of these days you may be the one who has made a profound chage for many parents who come into this same type of issue.
Yes, you definitely have cause to be worried. But I would be really worried for him. He is a very anxious child. Obviously, the separation has been very hard on him and his father is (at least for now) the only stable thing in his life. Thus he clings to him. He is also at an age where he has the ability to try and manipulate his surroundings to make him feel comfortable (which is one reason for the lies). But, it sounds like he has or is getting to the point where he feels unable to control what is going on and is withdrawing. And that's not good.
You say he can barely read. Is this by your standards or the schools? In other words, how is he doing grade wise? The next question is why? Did he miss school a lot? Does he have something like ADHD which would explain some of his other actions too?
And yes, he has learned that he can cry and dad will bail him out. Kind of understandable given what he has been through. Dad can change that but it will take time and patience.
I would start with the school. It sounds like he may be having many problems there. Is this a new school for him by the way? Because, kids who are new to a school often times get overlooked. Anyway, you definitely need talk to his teacher. Find out how he is doing in class and on the playground. It really sounds like the school psychologist needs to get involved. And if he is new at the school, you need to work on him finding some friends - does he have friends?
I mean there are really a lot of things going on here.
But to answer your question - yes, he is probably only going to spiral down unless some things change. Of course, paying more attention to him in a positive way will be helpful, but I think it runs much deeper than that. Please post if you care to share any more info. And I really think you need to start a whole new topic. By now, there are usually more people who would have posted to help you, and I think you kind of got lost in the posts above you.
I have had my step daughter who is now15. Since she was 7. She has 2 sisters who are not like her at all. Her mother was a drug addict, so I have raised all of them for over 8 years. She stole the first night here, has lied and says she got skills at it , her words in the first grade. She has stolen ever since she is a compulsive liar, she has no remorse. She has threaten me in the beginning that she may say something untrue about me, I looked straight in her eyes and said try me, god is watching and he knows everything I am doing is for the best, so never think your lies will move me...mind you spirit came through me that moment lol, but I was in het face. These children need constant reminder that they will behave appropriate because that is the rules and they are loved but you will not be pretending you don't know what they about, they need be reminded you love them but you are watching thier every move! I home school her, she does the work because if she does not she can write the whole book then, I don't play, net education is important. I tell everyone about her because everyone can't believe or see it. I accept this , I make everyone in family accept the truth otherwise she would pit people against eachoyher , steal from everyone..even though she has the best of everything, she would lie, hurt het little sister in the middle of night, oh and even her drug addict mother could not handle her since she was very small. No abuse happened, she has this about her. I am very kind and lobe animals, when she first came, I noticed animals acted funny toward her, she tried to play off that to see if her dad would react, *** through it and spoke on it asap in front of everyone...I discuss everything no fake quiet pretend. She has grown to love animals very much and she even puts flower let's beds out from our rose trees very sweet and the one thing that is genuine. So because of that she goes to animal protests for circus extra. With me and her sisters, otherwise,the way you live your life in front of them matters. Do good, but don't put up with any disrespect, I also constantly say you will not disrespect me and you should never let anyone disrespect you! I do not always engage her in conversation like the other kids, because I can not trust her and when I can then I will period. I have no fantasy about this, she will just minipulate any wishy washy why can't everything be different. Stop with looking for someone else to evaluate them, because what then, on then they get sent away, or prescribef more mess? No not going to fix anything just make it worse and 99% can't handle yours or my child so just do the work. I have to stay home and literally stare at her to make sure she is on task. So I do, because I know what will happen if I give up on her and no one can or will do this job but the parents. If you send them away it should be because of saftey issues, otherwise put locks on doors, never leave valuables around make sure all family is aware, be very honest and out spoken about it, that is the only way to actually help them to stop living inside thier own heads for a minute. Also pray and pray in front of them.
My son matched your son EXACTLY! I can't believe how many things you have experienced that I have also....the lying, stealing, peeing, manipulative, failing assignments in school but because of choice, threats to baby, knowing exactly what to say in therapy seesions, therapist saying parent needs parenting help, showing no remorse, punishments not working, problems wiht behavior since you can remember. I have went through those very things and my son is 11 years old now.
I notice what you wrote is from 2008 and here it is 4 years later. I would LOVE to talk to you to know if you found the source problem, if your child is doing better now, to receive any suggestions you may have being that you have experienced the same thing I am experiencing.
Your son is 11, so he is in 5th grade now? I wonder how he is doing in school. The reason why is because even if your parenting skills are not perfect - schools tend to be pretty rigid and can get results. Thus if the child is not doing well in school, it could indicate other problems like ADD or ADHD - among other things. And I know the school year is ending, but has the school done anything to help him? And if by chance he is in 6th grade (that would explain a lot) when is his birthday?
Wow. I haven't been on this site in a looooong time and didn't see all these messages. I am so sorry that I haven't responded. Life with my son went from bad to worse and shortly after I reached out on here my son's teacher began to repeatedly call child services about stories that my son was telling her and eventually they had to take action. Almost exactly 3 yrs ago today both of my boys were taken from me. My youngest was only 18 months old at the time. They kept him from me and in foster care, they wouldn't even consider a friend or family member taking him because they kept telling me it would only be 1 more day, for 2 months. I got him back by agreeing to let them keep my oldest son who has the issues until I finished parenting classes and everything on my parenting plan. I was almost done and so that should have taken about 2 more months. Otherwise they said they would draw it out indefinitely and could take years. Well the 2 extra months lasted over 2 years of visits, court dates, therapy, and jumping through hoops. At first they said I was a horrible mother and then after a little while they realized that my son had issues and they decided that he needed to be away from me and my youngest so that we could be safe. I fought for 2 yrs so that he could come home and we could at least have a trial stay and see if anything had changed in him. It looked like it had. He was so sweet and polite and well behaved. Well we finally got what we wanted after spending all of our money, my husband losing his job so he could make the visits and court dates, and our lives being torn apart. Withing 24hrs he began his games again. He started lying, playing games, and even started vomiting and pretending to be deathly ill at his therapists appointment to get attention. It was awful. No matter what I did he wouldn't stop. I finally had to send him back. It was the hardest decision of my life but he came home with the sole purpose of having my youngest taken away again and making my life miserable just to see if he could. The therapists said that I was his trigger because he knew that I would always love him unconditionally. No matter what he did I would always be there. So when to most people that would mean security to him it meant he could abuse me as much as he wanted. He is going to be adopted by his foster person soon and I am not longer legally his mother.
We are not sure what caused his problems. The men in my family all have emotional issues but his are far worse than anything in my family. One of the theories is that something is "missing" in him because he was 12 weeks early and therefore he suffered oxygen deprivation and the contact that he needed during the early weeks of his life while he was in the incubator. I tried my hardest to have good days with him and while most of the time we spent together was guarded we did have some good times. He isn't living with me now and when I do miss him and think about him I always go back to the really good times before things got bad. Mostly when he was a tiny baby.
No I never took any medications with my son. I was diagnosed after he was born and only took the meds for a little while. I was super cautious when I was pregnant with him and didn't take any medications, ate healthy, and exercised regularly. I have come to believe that his gene pool was a little muddy. My family has issues and his fathers family has issues and it was just a bad idea to combine the dna. I also nearly certain that he is a sociopath and I only hope that I am his only trigger and now that he is away from me then he will be a better person.
I'm not sure what happens when you refuse to bring your child home. But I had both of my sons taken from my home because of false allegations of abuse and got my youngest back after 2 months. They kept my oldest so that I could finish parenting courses and so things could get better between us. Well long story short they never did and I ended up giving up my parental right to him. This was done by choice because I couldn't see a good end to the situation and life for my entire family was in constant turmoil. That did not affect my rights to my youngest son. In fact the state left me alone after I signed my oldest son over and I haven't heard from them since.
If you truly do believe your child is a sociopath, which is an untreatable and tragic reality, you may have to consider reporting your own child to law enforcement. This applies to some of the other parents in this thread, as awful as it sounds, but it is empirically proven that children who show no remorse, relish in deception and threaten bodily harm or death, often become violent adult criminals.
You have to ask yourself if a) you have exhausted every possible option for diagnosis, including seeing reputable specialists on child antisocial personality disorder, b) listen to their conclusions, c) weigh the seriousness of their threats and actions (killing animals, smiling at others' pleasure, drawing murder-related pictures), and d) understanding that sometimes the best thing you can do for your child is to acknowledge this horrific reality in order to save a future child, children or adults who may become victims od your child
There has long been solid evidence that molestation, some hereditary trademarks and early abandonment/lack of warmth to a baby from as young as a newborn, can lead to sociopathic behavior. Sometimes there is no way to know, often because their manipulative, compulsive lying behavior is so well-calculating that they cannot be relied on to honestly reveal past history that could help you understand. Therein lies the tragedy of sociopathy; once a child has fulfilled most of the criteria seen in adults, and if you instinctively believe they in fact are, the reasons why are almost impossible to know.
What you can do is avoid mental hospitals that do not assess the seriousness of patients in mental wards, let alone a possible child sociopath. It will accomplish nothing. They do not treat them but rather put a watch on them and await the parent or guardian to sign them out. Once you've exhausted all your energy on specialized professionals of child sociopathology, the special victims or sex crimes unit is often the next best place to turn. They are more equipped to do polygraphs to determine pathology, evaluate their danger, and bring them through the justice system with regard to their age, being a child.
So ask yourself this: do I believe in my heart and mind that I have done everything I can, and am I willing to put myself, family and strangers at risk because my child lacks a conscience and makes death threats? Is the best thing I can do for my child to report the homicide threat, with evidence of pictures, statements (recorded if possible) and psychological evaluations that support sociopathy? The danger of yourself and your other child/children is paramount in my personal opinion and I (in accordance with the psychiatric community believe sociopaths cannot be treated). You are able to pursue criminal charges against your own child if you feel they have carried out threats, made serious threats of homicide and a number of other charges that you can discuss with your local DA.
Thank you for reading and best of luck,
wow. reading this makes me feel like im part of a scary kid movie where they try and kill their parents. the whole time you're thinking.....get out, get out. my stepson is 6. was raised with his mom for 5 years til we sued for custody to help him. she is trash and i believe a sociopath. lives on welfare. let his teeth rot out so that we had to have 9 of them pulled as soon as we got him. went from man to man, house to house. lies about everything. everything. told me she was late to pick him up one day bc shes pregnant and her husband was just in a tragic car accident and on a feeding tube (shes not married) (shes not pregnant). we initially took him to counseling to ensure he had a nice transition to our family (i have 2 other kids) but then we noticed he has very little short term memory. cant repeat sentences back to you. runs around like a hyperactive dog yelling "AAHH" for no reason. lies about random things. pushed my son with muscular dystrophy (age 8) off a bunkbed and lied about it. he clings to his dad. follows him around the house. says "my dad" in every sentence. hes manipulative. asks a question, if he doesnt get the answer he wants he goes down the line til he does. when we're in the car, i catch him staring at me with a hateful angry face. his dad sees some of this but thinks im overreacting bc hes not my kid. im worried he's gonna turn out to be just like his mother and ruin our marriage and harm my kids in the process.
I'd like to call it the step-parent phenomenon. The step parent comes into a single parent's life, and tries to point out everything the innocent child does wrong. Trying to make it out to be purposeful and malicious. Then over time the child hears it, and becomes what he is continuously called. Also, becomes the scape goat for all the problems. All because the real problem, "the jealous step-parent", has manipulated the whole situation. From one con example spawns a new con. Now your son has become a con, because he sees how well it worked for your new husband. I bet your husband never runs up to him, hugs him, and says, "Hey baby I missed you so much." All the while your first son is sitting there with his heart in a well...shortly after his pain turns into resentment. He questions why he has to be born into this unfair life. Fix the problem. Dump your husband. He's a jerk most likely, and your too dumb to figure it out. Don't let your youngest have a great life while your other child is getting crapped on everyday.
Do you know... What are the options for in patient help for a sociopathic child? Instead of them sitting in Juvenile Hall, is there some sort of State/Government assisted In-patient program where they at least can live day-to-day life outside of a jail cell? We don't qualify for Government assisted medical coverage, yet can not afford in-patient placement out of pocket. We are at a loss and the only options we have received from CPS are to dissolve our adoption (Privete, international adoptions) and make her a ward of the court, or pay out of pocket for in-patient care for the rest of her life. Do you know anything about our options?
There is a group trying to call attention to this. Most of these behaviors fall withing Reactive Attachment Disorder. Anyway, there is an on-line petition that is being circulated and sent to the highest levels of government. It might be worth a look:
My story is almost identical. My oldest daughter is almost 9 and poops whenever she is mad at me. Trouble in school, no friends, says she wants to hurt me. My 6 year old muses aloud about hurting me. They lie, steal. Home is awful. We've been in counseling for years. My kids are manipulative and try to eat their therapist for lunch... :(
My 8 year old step daughter is a straight A student and seems so sweet and innocent in large groups of people or most other family members. Since myself and her father have been together she has tried to make me jealous of her mother and other past relationships of my husband, jumped on my stomach when I was pregnant with both knees, tried to put marshmallows in my mouth while I was asleep on the couch in the living room twice (while I was pregnant), lies, lies, lies, manipulates everyone,......We just had a son. He's 4 weeks old. I'm scared to death that this girl is going to try to suffocate him in his sleep. My husband can't and won't see it. He says that she must have been joking trying to shove marshmallows down my throat. I really have no idea what to do and have actually thought of leaving my husband to protect our baby. I really don't know what to do.....
Sadly my ex-wife and son (aged 13) are both socio-paths. She has been a living nightmare for 16 years - so much so that when we were together I ended up going to a psychiatrist to find out what was wrong with ME!!! My son has been in boarding school in England and I sent him to a lovely lady psychiatrist who spotted nothing wrong with him after about 15 sessions. He then came to live with me overseas and for four months I suffered a nightmare of behaviours - but worst was the constant lying, the self importance - I didn't feel safe. Now he is back with his mother and their behaviours jointly (I won't go into the details) are simply gross. But I think I've managed to slice both of them from my life. My son , yes! But at my age (64) I need a peaceful retirement after 16 tears of this.
Hi, I am a step-mom of a 12 yr old boy dealing with these same issues right now too & terrified, also because I have 2 young boys ages 5 & 2. We are so distraught as to what steps we should take, he lies about EVERYTHING & steals anything, he is out of control! He is ADD & it went so far that he was taken to the hospital a few weeks ago & they committed him to a mental hospital about 2 hrs away, they only kept him a week & told us of all the problems he has & is having & gave us a drs name & released him! We brought him to the initial visit w/ the Dr & now nothing & noone is telling us what to do now or next & his behavior has gotten even worse since he has come back & he is spiraling out of control! We even installed locks on the bedroom door & fridge & cabinets to have to keep him away from chemicals & anything we can think of he could harm himself or others with! I'm di afraid he's going to snap & the saddest part of it all is that he really is a very sweet, loving boy & I don't think consciously has any clue what he really is doing! There has got to be help out there, I just don't know where or what to do!!!! :*-(
typically for someone at this stage medications are suggested to help the child gain control. Has this happened and is he on any meds?
What issues did the doctor and or hospital say he is having?
Finally, and perhaps most importantly, is he having the same problems at school?
I am not a step parent or bio parent of a 7 yr old boy. I am the nanny. All of these behaviors I have witnessed over the last 2 1/2 yrs I have been taking care of the boy and his sister. I have witnessed mental health issues with the grandmother (paternal--displayes bipolar disorder symptoms) and the bio mother is a addict (many addictions) the father is a good friend of mine so I didn't mind helping him when the mother left with the guy she was cheating with. His manipulation is that when he is caught he cries, or cries for his mom who only sees him and his sister 1-3 times a year inspite of court orders. My friends girlfriend and I have just recently convinced him that he needed to see someone for meds and he was diagnosed with ADHD but he isn't really getting any better. He has recently pooped in his bed and when asked why tells us he forgot to use the bathroom. When you punish him he smiles and laughs like it is of no consequence and then runs and cries to his grandma and then she gets her tailfeathers in a tissy saying we are picking on him. Yet when she has them both she is calling their dad stating that she cant take it anymore they wont mind her.
this is so out of control and the dad sees the behaviors but don't want to admit that there is something seriously wrong with his son.
we are at a lose and don't know what to do or where to turn..
My sister is a sociopath, from what I understand, all you can do is try to make sure she doesn't harm someone else. I am three years older and everyone says she has always been this way. Although, she has gotten better at hiding it, since she is older...Read The Sociopath Next Door.
Hey my name is Paula Nieves and i have a 10 year old son as well and he has been diagnosed with adhd odd and with bipolar systems . I noticed there was something wrong with him when he was 5 years old , he would hit him self in the head and chest if he got an answer wrong or if he didn't like what i told him to do . So i got him tested in 09 and he was taking Vyanse and it didnt do any thing he was still acting the same , so then i took him back to get evaluated a second time and they put him on intuitive and the day trainer patch and that didnt work either so i dont think that my son has adhd or odd or bipolar i think he has something worse ... But none of his doctors will schedule a cat scan or mri or eeg , . Sincerely a concerned mother .
Cat scans or mri's really won't be helpful. You've got to remember that a lot of what he is doing is learned behavior from his situation. That will not change overnight. Furthermore, those meds do wear off during the day. What is really important is what his teachers are seeing. So talk to them. Also all meds take some degree of experimenting to find the right dosage. You can't give up right away. Intuniv is not a stim med and thus doesn't help with ADHD to much. Its probably given at night to help him sleep? The DAYTRANA patch comes in 3 dose levels for kids, if the first didn't do much, the doc should have tried the next one. Here is a link to all the meds so you can check it out - http://www.leeheymd.com/charts/adhd_1.html
Feel free to post over on the ADHD site - http://www.medhelp.org/forums/ADD---ADHD/show/175 which I also am the CL of if you have any questions.
Honestly I have tried everything with my older child and had the same perception as yours I don't want my older child suffer while my youngest is enjoying his life. And I have tried everything to help him understand that he is wrong, but the problem is that my son is not interested in anything and by that I mean TV, Wii, Playstation, internet, he broke 2 nintedo DS, sports, music, nothing but carving, slashing, stubbing stuffed animals, pillows, boxsprings, mattresses ( even when we are on vacation). We don't have anything sharp out so he brings things from outside that's why I have to check his pockets and backpack before he can walk in the house. So here is the thing, Bob, and you might not agree with me, actions speak louder then words. So why should I deprive my youngest son who doesn't do any of that and keep giving my oldest so he can rip heads off the action figures and damage charge ports on i phones and continuously destroying not only things but his and my life. Even though I am his mother he sees me as his VICTIM - I am nothing more then his victim...He can control himself really well and does those things on purpose without remorse. Take Adam Lanza's mother she was nurturing, kind, dedicated her life to her son, didn't want to date noone because of him. Some people are casting judgements on others without any knowledge of what's going on in their life. You called one of the mothers dumb and suggested her to leave her husband, but you don't understand that it doesn't matter her son will only get worse and when he is older he will either beat her up or kill her. She is LUCKY to have support system and such great husband who doesn't give up and keep on going and helping and supporting her with her son from previous marriage, while her ex husband ran away....
Unfortunately, if your child is a true sociopath, there is nothing you can do for them. All you can do is try to limit the damage caused to you or others. You will need to resign yourself to the fact there is nothing you can do. That is the most therapeutic thing you can do for yourself. Because, I can guarantee your child does not care how you feel and in fact probably takes great pleasure in watching you in misery. As a parent who has raised a sociopath, my only relief was to just let go. Of course that was after my child left a wake of damage big enough to walk through. My story is very similar to most on this post. But,there are some differences in your experiences to mine. After researching this topic for years, I have come to the conclusion that the differences in sociopathic behavior seems to be in their intellectual prowess. My daughter like most of you showed signs almost at birth. She lied, manipulated, and never took responsibility for anything no matter how small. My child was very intelligent and used that to her advantage at all turns. It would start with a lie, then denial, then defensive, then angry, then explosive. She learned early that she could utilize others reactions to her manipulations to get her way. She didn’t always show her extreme behavior because she was extremely successful in her manipulations and rarely would get to the explosive stage. But, of course, as her parents we saw the entire cycle; mainly because we witnessed the entire span of behaviors. She was a straight A student and was the school Mascot. So, on the outside, she was the perfect kid. But, it was all an act to manipulate every situation in her life. My story ends with the same tragic story that will surely occur if you resist their every wish. At 15 my daughter tried to put my wife, biological BTW, in jail with extreme accusations of child abuse because we took her internet access away. At the time the accusations occurred, we had no clue what hell she was about to rain on us. It started with us taking her internet access away for dangerous behavior; seeking out relations over the internet. The next day, we get a call from the school that our daughter is accusing us of abusing her. But, the counselor assured us that her story didn’t check out and wanted to inform us. Luckily the school did question her accusations and recorded the event and their physical observations of her. Our daughter comes home and acts like everything has passed and back to normal. She was loving, playing with the dogs, and attended a Christmas party with us. Then suddenly she disappears for ten days. We immediately called the police. After searching and investigating a few days they gave up. We then involved the media to help locate her. On the tenth day she is found 1200 miles away with a relative claiming abuse. And, she had pictures to prove it, so she claimed. That is all the media and cops needed to turn the focus on us. Next thing we know we are on all the major networks with the cops saying we did it and were going to pay. A $100,000 and a week-long trial later my wife was acquitted of all charges. In fact the jury was so appalled by the DAs charges and trial antics they asked if they could give my wife a hug after their ruling. The lies were so obviously false it made me lose all faith in our justice system. She is now an adult, living on her own, and has a good job. But, she still leaves a wake of damage with whoever gets close to her. My wife and I have learned to just let her go and cast all guilt and what ifs aside. There was nothing we could have done to help or change her. We have relations with her but with extreme caution to protect ourselves from her. So, it is possible to co exist with a sociopath. You just need to know what you are dealing with.
Hello Julsy23, WOW I'm so glad I came across these posting and expecially your post... I am struggling with my boyfriend's daughter who is turning 12 soon and she exhibits a lot of symptoms of a sociopath. I am uncertain 100% that she is...I'm only suspecting that she is at the moment because I have 14 years of experience living with a sociopath which almost destroyed me. But when you said that a sociopath does not harm animals that is exactly what she is like. She treats everyone else with contempt and manipulation EXCEPT for the cat. She is very attentive to it, always petting it, gives it so much attention and is even kind to it but to the rest of us wow... some if not all of the stories in these posting I can relate to her. But she has some rare moments of kindness with us too so I'm PRAYING everyday that she's not a sociopath and I rely on my learned skills of 14 years of coping with a sociopath that I'm there for his other children and him. Please say a prayer for my family as I will yours. I am going to continue to monitor these postings. Thank you everyone and if anyone wants any feedback of how I cope, just ask :-) God bless you all.
I discovered this thread while researching. I have two nieces by my eldest brither-in-law, his girlfriend's daughter (D1) and their daughter (D2). My husband and I have been together about as long as his brother and gf, and have been a part of her daughter's life since she was 6 months old. the gf has serious issues and is a liar/manipulator. She and BIL (brother-in-law) lied to us all for years and said she was divorced, but she is married to a soldier. She told everyone she was abused, but she claims the same about BIL during arguments. She is bipolar, alcoholic, and has been diagnosed PTSD due to 'her past relationship experiences.' She tried to manipulate everyone and caused a huge blow up the month before we married, but it backfired. We eloped to avoid the drama that she had sucked my then-teenage sister-in-law into. From day one she manipulated us into being aunts/uncles/grandparents/daddy when we did not know them well, but for D1 we all accepted because we loved her, yet she also refers to her husband as 'daddy' too on his rare visits, confusing the child.
She is a terrible mother, and my BIL is not much better. They got pregnant right away and then had an abortion only to get pregnant 9 months later with our niece who no one knows if BIL is really the father since she slept with his roommate. So needless to say, we thought SHE was the problem and felt so sorry for the girls who are now going on 4 and just turned 2. D1 was always so sweet, and loved us completely. The gf and sister in law tried to turn her against us during the worst of gf's manipulations. We moved away in October 2010 and have only seen the family for week ling visits since--when BIL and family came to visit us summer 2011, last April, and this January.
D1 seemed less happy, and even went so far as to slap me in the face in the summer visit for not giving her enough presents. She seemed the same with no physical incidents in April, but this last visit left me very concerned. BIL and gf have a very volatile and unstable relationship. They break up all the time, gf uses him as a Plan B and for money/support, my in-laws all but raise the girls so she is dependent on that as well, and she moves out a lot. Uually only taking her daughter, not theirs. Well, gf got drunk when she was home with the girls alone, blacked out, and became violent when BIL found her and told D1 to stab 'daddy in the neck with a screw driver.' She has been fixated in screwdrivers since. Doctors claim gf had some kind of faux seizure (the kind you can fake according to the definition).
D1 is starting to notice the difference between her and her sister. Her sister always has a stable family, but she gets ripped away at her mother's whim. So when she acted out against her sister, I took it to be jealousy. This is what happened. The girls were with my mother-in-law (MIL) when D2 went in MIL's room to talk. D1 went in, sweetly took her by the hand, and told her to come with her. She then returned to the room, and tried to engage MIL in conversation. MIL quickly realized something was amiss and discovered D1 had locked D2 outside.
During our visits, namely the most recent, she showed increasingly extreme possessiveness over my husband who shows the girls love and attention unlike BIL and gf. She would give me dirty looks when he showed me attention. I told her how excited we were to come see them, and she told me that she would not miss me, only my husband. Um, what 3 year old talks like that? When D2 needed to be returned home we turned it into a visit with D1, BIL, and gf. D1 made a big show over her sister being home, but a minute later tried to hit her. Why? Because D1 tripped over her own feet and then tried to cross the room to blame/strike her sister. I admonished her, and told her to apologize. She proceeded to refuse, stomp off, and quietly give me looks and glares I have NEVER seem from a child. This changed when D2 climbed into my lap, and then suddenly she was sweet again. Her sweet mask would slip and scared my husband and me because it was smile, then creepy glare/wide-eyed look/etc when he did not think we were looking, then smile. She also turned at one point and smiled wickedly and informed us that she is scary. Gf's response to the hit was D2 goes after her sometimes too and to get jealous and try to compete with me for their attention upon which I returned to the adults. I noticed D2 chewing something and asked her what was in her mouth, and as she spit out, D1 looked at me and smiled and said, 'A battery.' She orders adults around, lies, has shallow emotions, manipulates, and seeks all attention. She got mad at MIL (gf, BIL and the girls lived with the in-laws for almost a year) and told her that she wanted to go home, that she hated her, and that could not make her stay and she would never live with her again (again sound 3?). At the end of the visit, BIL and my husband played a video game. The girls were in bed, but BIL would not turn it down. D1 marches out, puts hands on her hips and makes a show of telling the men off for waking her up and telling them to turn it down. satisfied when gf showed her attention and glared at the guys before leading her back to bed.
My husband and I were goofing around one evening, and she turned, glared at me and demanded to know what I was doing to HER *insert husband's name.* Honestly, I could see her someday killing me to have my husband all herself. If she does not hurt D2 first. She is extremely obsessed with him, and while I have sisters and know that jealousy can be strong and ugly in the early years something seems very 'off.' I worry because there is nothing we can really do, and their parents are too self-centered to notice or care. Gf laughs that her mom used to say when she was that age that if looks could kill, she--her mom--would be dead. So maybe I am over-thinking, but with the abandonment, instability, gf's mental health, the arguing and break-ups, the jealousy and noticeable difference between her life and her sister's...It seems like a perfect storm. We treat the girls equally, and the in-laws did at first too, but they are starting to show favoritism to the point even BIL noticed so that only adds to it. Thoughts? Opinions? I pray nightly for these girls...The in-laws are moving so any stability the girls had is about to go to the next military base hundreds of miles away...It scares me how all light and happiness have left this little girl.
Also, I remember hating an aunt if mine for 'taking my uncle,' when I was 4 or 5 so maybe it's normal? I have wondered about RAD since some of my kiddos I work with have it and go from sweet to violent like a switch has been flipped...sigh.
There are lots of post on this forum about "out-of-control" 4 year olds, etc. And these two don't seem to be much different. It comes down to what they are allowed to do. I would be extremely worried if they were 12 and 14 for example. And, unfortunately, until preschool, no one may work on their behavior. And ya, essentially, if you have dysfunctional parents - the kids also tend to have problems. And its pretty hard to blame the kids for that.
Having said all of that. Little kids don't travel well. Its stressful, etc. Hopefully, the two times you last saw them was more a result of them being tired and in a new place then their actual behavior.
Thanks for the reply. I most definitely blame the parents, and I do hope it is some 'normal' toddler-preschool behavior because I have heard there are some overlaps between the age and sociopathy-type behavior. I work with special needs children oredominantly, but have had a lot of exprience with children of all ages. I am not used to a child that age using language and manipulation like that or the 'creepiness' factor. Some of the kids I work with are very advanced for their ages too, and have the vocabularly of a much-oldern child, and I still can't imagine them telling someone they would miss one person, not the other, or that they will never live with you again (perhaps repeating things gf has said in argument on the last). Also, to note, WE traveled the last two visits. They did not. The first visit we made, they sill lived with the in-laws and the last they lived in town.
Its interesting, I just read an article in today's LA Times about kids and moral development. A new study says that at ages 3 and 4, a typical toddler hasn't yet developed the moral decision-making skills that align his behavior with what he knows is right. By 5 or 6, that moral compass is still a work in progress. Its not till 7 or 8 that they began to change their behavior to match to what they know is right. I've got a feeling that the socializing of schools is at least part of the reason the older kids began to "get it."
And ya, I do think that a lot of what is going on with them is learned behavior from home - and that's probably where the blame should go.
That makes me feel a lot better. I know their parenting, or lack thereof, will effect them and was really concerned it was worse than I exected when I saw D1's behavior. My heartbreaks for these girls.
My husband n I went through so many of these same disturbing behaviors. From lies to severe vilonce n at the end abuse., My husbands ex
Had custody of him, we tried fighting for custody of him . Impossible judge didn't want to hear anything. The mom had him hospitalized many time that didn't help. He was in couseling for 5 years. That didn't help either. I feel for all you going through this. don't wonder why or blame yourself. That will not help at this point. My step son is 17 now and was sentenced to 2-10 years in prision. Sad to say this but that's what it took to end this. Good luck to u all. Prayers r with u all.
I started learning about narcissism and sociopathy after surviving my father and his sister after he died of an unrelated disease. Gotta say...its geneitic. My 4 children all exhibit symptoms and they have different fathers. My first husband was a sociopath, (we do work out our parental relationships with our spouses) and my second husband has a heart. I have learned over the years that I have to live with myself. I will only do what I think is right for my children as far as my conscience goes. That being said, once I got there I wasn't easy to manipulate. They are all adults now. They still have issues dealing with other people but I think because I was educated and STRICT with a good moral compass and I MADE them follow that compass, I was able to raise them to at least function in society. The damage they do is minimal. They know that I will take them out and that my husband (a military 11 Bravo soldier) will take over if I can't. FEAR is the answer and then guidance. Ping that child's ear every time he talks back to you. Then sit down with a CCD lesson book and TEACH right from WRONG and then hug him. Demonstrate love. Make him help you love others. MAKE HIM. This child needs FIRM LIMITS and you need to be one step ahead of him. Figure out what he gets pleasure from, sweets, tv whatever and use it to MANIPULATE him. These kids are primal. Dog eat dog. You have to be the meaner dog and your husband needs to be even meaner. Beating your child is not the answer but taking him by the neck and making him do the right thing as well as fixing what he did wrong is. Be strong, make him fear and respect you. By doing that you may keep him out of prison. Do it now before he gets bigger than you. Reward him for when he shows love and concern for others and make him pay dearly for when he wrongs others. Don't abdicate this responsibility to the healthcare system or social services system, then you will have a monster.
Boy I can't say enough about this, I cry over my kids not being able to feel empathy for others, their inability to set goals and work for them unless I have the expectation for them. But I can say this, I taught them what was acceptable and not acceptable to others. When my son peed, he was taken by the neck and given a bucket and a scrub brush to clean it up. It didn't happen again. I now get phone calls from my sons full of grandiose ideas about their abilities and I have to cut right through it and say "yes, you can be anything you want to be as long as you WORK for it yourself and do not expect it to be handed to you." Some days I see progress and other days I worry what will happen after I die. I thank God every day that they haven't hurt anyone and that they still call me for advice so that I can point them down Jesus's path and not to exploit other people. But it gets frustrating. They want to go down the easy path every time. But they are not evil. These kids can't feel deeply towards others but they can learn behavior that makes them acceptable in society. They can learn not to hurt other people. My second son had quite a track record in school and took a lot of reinforcement to get him to change and he is doing okay now as an adult. I stopped having the expectation to make him understand why it is wrong to hurt people but to JUST NOT DO IT because it will just come back to hurt him. That is what he understands. Karma. You have to find your son's hard little heart and make it grow and it is a difficult and long process. In the meantime you have to make yourself into the wall he meets when he tries to hurt others. he simply doesn't see the need yet or the advantage to himself to be considerate of others until your make it abundantly clear. Fear can build anger so balance the high level of it your need to reach him to set limits with same amount of love.
I think your son has just been through a few traumatic events in his life and this is part of the core problem. You said his step-father has been working over 60 hours a week. This implies that you have had a divorce (sorry to hear about this). Have you ever considered that this divorce has drastically affected your son? Do you really believe that your son likes your new husband? Ask yourself these questions so that way you will get to the core problem. When you get to the problem, you will be able to figure out the answers. I pray everything goes well.
Sounds like R.A.D. (Reactive Attachment Disorder). Get the book entitled "When Love is Not Enough" by Nancy L. Thomas. After years of dealing with the same behaviors you describe from my daughter, this book helped me understand what was wrong with her. God bless you and your family. I know it is very difficult.
Dear moms- my heart breaks for you. most of these posts are 5 years or older. i am just reading now as I searched for info for a friend regarding attavhment disorders in orphans.
may I make a suggestion. Please find a very good church in your community- a church that believes in healing- physical, emotional, mental and spiritual. There is a church in reding ca- bethel church. They offer healing services. They will help. Call them and explain what is going on. You are loved and your child is loved, despite their behavior. There is more going on here than may be apparent with our natural eyes. You and your children are meant to have great peace and joy filled lives. When you seek Him you will find Him.
Quick bit about me so you don't think I am crazy and will at least consider what I am suggesting.... 40 years old mother of 2, live outside of NYC, professional with MBA (logical thinker). I had an encounter with God during and after the murder of my best friend 10 yrs ago. Please check out bethel. Go there if you need to.
I'm glad u stood up for yourself. Some ppl think they know and add their 2 ignorant cents, but really they have no idea what we are going thru as parents dealing with this. I have a 16 yr old son who we have been struggling with as well. I don't think he was born this way, although I could be wrong, I think his lack of empathy started after he was put on ADHD medication. He was impulsive and hyper but he laughed and enjoyed playing with other kids and was kind of outgoing. After the Dr. put him on medication he seemed to completely flatten out and have no empathy whatsoever. Different meds made him aggressive and get into fights at school. He doesn't try to hurt animals or really others either but he has refused to do any work in school ever and not bcuz he can't do it, he just doesn't want to. He has made different teachers and counselors think we were just bad parents and left him out...he played the victim a lot. Although that game eventually ended bcuz his teachers could see eventually by their own interaction with him that he was being manipulative. We have been there for him his whole life, both parents in the home, at every parent/teacher conference, open houses and school activities. So even when ppl acted like we were just horrible parents I couldn't accept that. He blames everyone else. He only cares about himself. As he has gotten older things have progressed. He lies all the time. He causes constant turmoil at home between us and his brother. He has stolen jewelry from my mom. He takes various things at home that aren't his even tho he's been told to leave them alone, things like mp3 players and others personal belongings and often breaking them or ruining them . He smokes even though neither of us ever have...he has stolen cigarettes from my mom and we just found out he has been stealing packs of 'swisher sweets' from a gas station. He has been smoking pot whenever he can find somebody who has it (We don't do drugs and my husband is a nurse even). When we have confronted him about it he says he does it bcuz he likes being high. When we talk about the fact that he is breaking the law he just shrugs it off like it's no biggie. We rarely keep any alcohol in the house but when we do we hide it bcuz he will get into it and drink it. We just caught him huffing! He took all of the hair products and foot spray etc in the house and used them to "huff" and we found them in his room hidden. He sneaks out of the house at night. Last night in fact we caught him out of the house at 4am - he had found a bottle of margarita drink that we had had from a bbq party and it was hardly drank out of and he drank the rest of it and it was a big bottle, then he snuck out walking the neighborhood while smoking. He is technically supposed to a Junior this next year but only has 1 credit, he was constantly getting in trouble at school, he has been suspended more times than I can count thru the years and expelled 3 different times. He has come right out and said he isn't going to do any work in school bcuz he doesn't want to. He has also stated to us "I do what I want" basically throwing it in our faces. We pulled him out of school and are now sending him to a psuedo military camp that will help him get his GED. We have done every reward/punishment u can think of. I have done time-outs and spankings, groundings, taking away privileges and even tried bribery with money to improve his behavior & grades ect and nothing has worked. We had him in counseling and he basically manipulated the 2 different counselors he saw there...he had them singing his praises for being mature and helping others get acclimated in the anger management group he also attended and all the while he was smoking behind the building with the substance and alcohol abuse group of adults in the next building over on breaks and after session! He has racked up over $500 in fines for smoking, curfew, ect... He has also been extremely promiscuous since he was 10. He ordered $200 of porn at my moms one weekend when he stayed there. He lost his virginity tat 14 to a 17 yr old and has constantly had older girls interested in him bcuz he is such a manipulator. He recently had a 22 year old on some dating site convinced he was 18 and they almost hooked up until she found out he was lying about his age. He even somewhat seduced a 'friends' mother and had her talked into getting him a pack of cigarettes as well. I caught them talking on FB and planning to meet up to 'talk' and for her to give him the cigarettes...it was disgusting seeing her flirt with him and basically be willing to do whatever he asked her to. When we confronted her she said maybe if we were in his life he wouldn't be coming to her for consolation and advise in life! I was like "lady u have no idea!" and of course we threatened to call the police etc etc...He isn't threatening anybody's life and isn't torturing animals but he has made our lives a living hell. We are convinced he is a sociopath. I know it sounds callous but we are just biding our time until he is 18 and we can put him out of our house. It is literally like a prison sentence living with him and unless someone has actually lived it they just don't know! I hope u are able to have a different outcome in your situation, but if u know u are doing what u can don't let anyone try to judge u or force u to put your child on medication until u have researched it and are sure for yourself it is what will be best for your child. I have to say I wish I hadn't been so trusting just bcuz the person had the title "Dr.". Although I can't say our son wasn't this way all along and it just wasn't obvious, I will always question it.
This is really sad, I feel for you. So depressing to watch your son go through this. It sounds like his first doc over medicated him, and no clue what happened after that. But he has definitely gone through the self medication phases that is more normal to a child who has never been on medication. Makes me wonder when the last time he was on meds and what they were?
I understand your situation. My oldest daughter who is now 26 was an impossible child. She is very intelligent and manipulative. At times my husband and I would have to discuss a situation that happened because she was so convincing. As she grew older she told us she was raped, her step-dad was watching her while showering and where she was with her friends. We were living in Turkey because my husband was in the Air Force. I was always making her prove to me what she was saying. I would make her reenact the situation so that I could see if it was the truth. Her being raped was not even possible. The cops patrolled the area and a game was going on. I also had taken her to the Er that night due to her being sick. We finally got it out of her that she had sex with her boyfriend. My husband wasn't watching her. She saw him going down the stairs when she came out of the bathroom and said he was looking through the key hole from the stairs. The stairs was a 2 rooms away from the stairs and I had toilet paper blocking the lock since we moved in. She was trying to destroy our marriage because she didn't like my husband sticking by me. Finally she was almost sent back to the states because she and her friends were breaking into empty houses and had set fire to one and several of the kids parks. She was found by my husband one night drinking and playing chicken with the perimeter Turkish guards. The Turkish didn't hesitate to shoot anyone who came near the perimeter fence. She was running at the fence and loving the thrill she might be shot. We moved back to the states and everything was worse. She was cutting herself and torturing her brother and sister. One time her brother and sister came home to her in the floor with a knife. She had overturned furniture and poured ketchup all over herself. It took me forever to calm the kids down. She thought it was so funny. She finally became physically violent with me and I defended myself. She went to school and told the counselor I was beating her. I went to work that day at the end of my rope. I worked for the medical hospital on base. They helped me get her inpatient care. She has bipolar and ADHD. She stayed for two weeks and when she came home she was a different person. Dcs came and investigated and found nothing against us. This was the 3rd time we had gone through this because of her. It lasted 1 week, she didn't like the way she felt on the meds and went off. She ended up pregnant because the counselor at school told her it would emancipate her from us. So she used that against us. We ended up retiring from th af and moving to be around family for support. No one in the family believed us how bad she was but that changed fast. Her daughter was born and I never knew where she left her. I was able to get the baby on the weekends and make sure she was ok. My daughter finally came to me and said she didn't want to be a mother. She allowed us to get custody of the baby at 3 months old. Her daughter is doing well and now is 8 years old. We have had some issues but she was diagnosed with ADHD. My daughter had two more kids both boys. The oldest at 6 tried to stab his teacher with scissors. He has ran away from home twice and was brought home by the police. They believe he may be autistic and he has ADHD. They are doing further testing because they are worried about him being a psychopath. His father is raising him without my daughter being around at all. Her youngest is now in our care because my daughter is doing meth and has been arrested 5 times now. He is three now. We have had him since October 2012. He has killed two puppies. When I asked him why? He said he wanted to break them. He tries to torture the cat and breaks anything he can get his hands on. We are at our wits end. Displining him doesn't work. He goes right back and does it again or worse. We have to get him evaluated. I haven't dreaded waking up since my daughter left but now I don't even want to leave my room. He scares me. I dread seeing what he does as he gets older. There is no remorse for what he has done from either boys. The youngest told me he wanted to break the other puppies too. One day he told me he would break me. I am praying we find help for both boys. Her daughter is fine though. She is a normal, very intelligent girl.
I can completely understand what you are going through. I have had my (well let's just say for the record) step-son since he was 7 years old. His father and I live together and because of the lack of work he is on the road a lot. Well, the first thing I noticed when he came to live with me was that he was taking medication because he was so-called wetting the bed. I finally realized that my sodas, kool aid, bottles of water were missing. So one night I took a picture of the items in the frig and went to bed. The next morning, I realized that 3 sodas were missing along with half of the gallon of kool aid. So, while he was at school I took a nap and pretended to be sleep and around 3am he got up and started towards the kitchen and when I stepped out as he was drinking from the gallon container and had a soda in his hand he look surprised. Well, he is now 16 and like you I am just counting down. I have taken him to be tested, gotten counseling for him and he has lied and told this stories about how he traveled all over the United States and things that he has done and he has been in his father's care since he was 4 years old. He steals food, money, anything that is not nailed down. When approached about things he has done, he goes into this pity party routine and then he gets upset and to make matters worse he can't understand that there is a price to pay when you do something wrong. I know to a lot of people that we may sound like we have given up; but what good are you to anyone else if you are in a mental institute or jail because of the actions of someone who will never understand and accept when they have done something wrong. The sad thing is that there are no programs for sociopaths, they don't have any forms of treatment for them especially children and the doctors will tell you that they should out grow it. Or they want to medicate them to where they are either more aggressive or zombies. The police will tell you that unless they have done something harmful to you or someone there is nothing they can do. But, once they become part of the system then everyone's eyes are upon you as being a bad parent. Well, until you have walked a half a block in our shoes, you have nothing to say. We live in constant fear everyday. Our lives are no longer our own. We have to watch them daily, hourly, hell even minuet by minuet. Our only relief is to know that when they turn 18 - GLORY!!!!! To parents who are going through this, keep in prayer and be sure to find someone that you can talk with and not be judged. People who have not had to deal with a child that is a sociopath are clueless to what you are going through. They only see the surface child; but if they ever had to experience the spirit that is within that child, I wonder if they could handle it. I know what you are going through and you have my prayers and just like to said - start the countdown. I have 22 months to go before freedom. Good luck and God bless you and may He give you strength and mercy.
I read the stories posted here and cannot believe the number of parents with similar issues. I can honestly say, I do not think step-parents or older siblings are the issue, as suggested by some posts. My daughter is an only child in our home. I am no longer with her mother and I have remarried. Her mother would visit her regularly at first then it tapered off until terminating her rights when my daughter was 8. For years she was treated for the abandonment of her mother which started long before she terminated her rights. The "professionals" then told me we were dealing with true mental illness around age 7. They had broken through the ill feelings she harbored for her mother and in my words found something darker. That is certainly how it feels. She is now on her 4th out of home therapeutic placement. According to the "professionals" working with her, we should now ignore the violent outbursts and her cutting herself. This does not begin to address the manipulation, lying, stealing, talks of killing my wife and I, or the acts of revenge she has done. The revenge comes when she does not get her way or is disciplined. We have been investigated by DSS so many times that our record with them is ruined where we live. Even though the accusations were found to be false. My daughter accused me of molesting her at age 9, also investigated and found to be false. She has repeatedly made statements that we physically abuse her. Each time she has been evaluated by doctors and no signs of physical abuse have ever been found. She has since then bit bruises on her arms and legs accusing us of biting her. This was also found to be false because the bites were too small for us to make. At 12 she told kids at school we used to let guys come to visit her and she had a baby at 10. My cousins son who was 2 at the time was "her" son in the story, and she mentioned him by name.
I could go on with an encyclopedia of things that have happened over the years but I have a question. At what point do our fears as the parent get heard by the "professionals" supposed to help our children? I live in North Carolina and mental healthcare here is a joke in my opinion. I have reached the point where I do not know how much more I can take. If my daughter is at home I feel more like I am on guard duty than being a parent. All the while, the "professionals" recommend more therapy or different medicines. None of which have had a positive outcome at all. I have been asking if there are different treatments or methods that could be tried. If my daughter was 18+ there would be a host of options. Instead we are trapped in a circle. She is home until her behavior escalates to the point it is not safe. She goes away for a while. Decides to participate in whatever program she is in when she wants to come home. Then we start over with escalating behavior. It seems they have never dealt with the cause only manage the outcome. This is flawed logic to me.
The only option being presented to us is the termination of my rights. To me that is a failure of the system. It is presented in a way to make it sound as if my wife and I will have no life while my daughter is in treatment. It does not stop the circle. It only means someone else has the responsibility of her appointments and actions. To me it means doing something I could never do. Giving up. If anyone else on this site is from North Carolina we would appreciate any programs, treatment centers, or suggestions you may have.
So sorry for all the trouble you are going through with your daughter. I too am going through this with my nephew, the state doesn't make a difference Texas is a joke too! They have put him on Lithium and for the time being has curbed his anger and aggression towards us. The lies never stop our oldest daughter is 26 and this has not stopped, my brother is the little boys dad is 47 and this has yet to stop. I can only suggest to keep your head up, and just keep loving her from a distance. The psychiatrist seem to think my 10 year old nephews problem is that abandonment too but I say it isn't, I say it is the fact that the protection services that are around today are much different then when we were growing up and they have pounded it into the children's heads at an early age that being spanked is not how you are supposed to discipline them. We had a counselor at an Elementary school tell us that the NEW way is to talk to them, sure talk to them why they are screaming at you, threatening you, throwing things at you, or talk to them through a door while they are hacking away on their arm's or leg's no sir no ma'am I don't think so!
We have three wonderful children, our oldest (26) was the thief, the liar, she made up stories of how we mistreated her, we never put her on medication because I was scared of the side effects. I can say that though she is immature as I don't know what she did listen to us, and did not get pregnant before she got married, in fact she was a virgin! Our middle child was the cutter, she is now 23 and has since matured a lot and even went into the military and served our great country. She went to one treatment facility but when they started the mess about we think she is acting out because she is being abused or that she has a conflict with her dad, we took her out, started homeschooling her and her sister and they have turned out great because we cared enough to take the time to love them from a distance, we let them know that we loved them but that we as parents had expectations and was not going to settle for half-hearted attempts at doing what we told them they had to do. We had to do the "tuff-love"! Our son who is now 13 is not as respectable as we'd like but we are working on him, one day at a time and we have learned the hard way that we can't bring up the past. We have to treat each day as a knew day, especially with our nephew whom we are raising. He has been diagnosed with Bipolar, Oppositional defiant disorder, ADHD and that abandonment thing too His sister has been diagnosed with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, that is a whole other topic or discussion. Neither of them have seen their mother for over a year, before that they seen her off and on for about a year, after about three years of absence. Their father is not much better, he lives in the same town and only see's them once or twice every .few months.
Their is something wrong with our society, and it is affecting the children that are growing up in it. We need to put back the corporal punishment in schools, let parents take care of their children at home the way they used to do in the 1940's to 2000, ya know. And we need to make sure the teachers have the right to put them in the corners, or bust their butts too! Our teachers are being so miss treated now, they are being yelled at, they are having things thrown at them, spat on, cussed, and then are told just stand there and take it you are not allowed to lay a hand on them, well all I can say is I am glad I am not a teacher these days because I would stay in trouble. We need to bring back the "RESPECT" that we were raised with! Good luck everyone, just hang in there and love those kid's with all your heart, I know it is hard but they did not ask to be born right, we wanted them then we need to continue to want and love them, but at the same time be strict and let them feel TUFF LOVE....
Tonya, your story has moved me greatly, I can only imagine the pain of having to make such a hard decision, but let me tell you it was for the best. Your youngest now will have the chance to have a normal life away from potential harm. I knew a lady who also had a son who was a sociopath, but she wasn't as lucky as you, and I mean lucky because she was never able to be away from the torture that her son brought to her day after day after day, and believe me, the older they get, the behavior you describe as "games" become horrors, true horrors. The lady I'm talking about ended up moving out of her house because her neighbors couldn't stand her son's behavior, among many other forms of abuse that she had to endure. I never thought a child could be diabolical, but now I know it can happen to even the best parents in the world. I am never having children because after witnessing what I saw, I am terrified of being stuck in life with such a creature. You were lucky that your child didn't plan the lies well, and his plans backfired. Otherwise you'd still be stuck with him in a miserable life, and your youngest would've suffered major trauma at the hands of your oldest son. I can only wish you and your family a happy life. Good luck.
I found this blog randomly because I searched about children having these kinds of problems. My daughter goes to a school where there is a girl who agressed her two times this week. She is not in the same class as my daughter but they are both in 7th grade. The first incident was in the bus on the way home from school. The girl intently pinched her fingers for no reason, then said sorry she didn't mean it. Being new to this school, the other kids warned my daughter to avoid this girl because she is someone so violent and talked about killing her parents or burning the school down, and that she has been seeing has been regularly seeing a therapist for that.
Today, my daughter came home from school telling me that this same girl attacked her again at recess. The girl tried to open my daughter's bag and when my daughter pulled her bag back , the girl pulled my daughter's hair and pinned her down on the ground until one of the teachers saw and stopped her.
I know some parents are having a real hard time with their children are having these kinds of disorder and I really feel for them. I hope and pray that you will find the ample cure and therapy for them.
Like my daughter says, it is not the girl's fault because it's something that she can't control. But she's scared of her especially that they take the same bus everyday and hope nothing worse will happen. And so do I.
My son is 14 now but he has been trouble for a good 7-8 years.
It was mostly bad behavior in school but also treating his two sisters badly at home. He does not like the classroom setting at all and shows little, if any, respect to his teachers. The past year or o have been the worst. We have taken him to counseling in the past with no success. This past year, he was selling cash as well as jewelry and his sister's Ipod to fund his pot habit. Just within the last 6 weeks, he got in trouble in his friends' neighborhood for taking down stop signs and other mischief. The police said they couldn't arrest him because of his age. We entered him in PINS (Person In Need of Supervision), a county program to help keep youth out of the courts. 2 weeks into school (he is a freshmen in HS), he got into trouble for bullying another student on Xbox. This lead to a heated argument at home where he threatened to hurt himself. We had him admitted o a psychiatric hospital for youth for 10 days. This did absolutely nothing because he just said and id what he had to do until he got out. So there is the manipulation. He also lies about everything. He is on 20 mg Abilify and 25 mg Lamotrigne which does not seem to help. If he had his way, he would play Xbox all day and smoke pot with his friends all night.
He is now in another program run by the county called IDT (Intensive Day Treatment). This is for only 30 school days. Today was his first day and he came home complaining that he is with a bunch of f@^#+8g retards (no offense intended I am just quoting my son). Our answer to him was that he put himself in this situation and that he is finishing the program. The IDT program includes one-on-one therapy, group therapy and school.
There is no broken home, abandonment, step-sibling, step-dads, etc.
However, there is little to no involvement with our extended family.
During the intake process for the IDT program, he revealed that he started smoking pot in the 7th grade which means he was only 12 since his birthday is after the school year ends.
Sorry if I am rambling but I could go on and on...
One therapist said she thought he has a personality disorder but I read that they do not usually diagnose a child with that since personalities are not set yet. He definitely has sociopath traits. I am just not sure if anything can be done to undo anything.
I am dealing with something similar. My son said he will kill me because he has a girl friend now and if he kills me I would be out of the way and he would have a great life. My son will bug me until he gets what he wants. If I don't give him whatever that is his whole life will be focus on that one thing. My son is 14 and he is extremely smart in school but doesn't put any effort or stay in school. He was punching me in the face again and again and when he stopped there was nothing in his eyes. If someone has seen this they know what I mean. He is not sorry. He says its my fault for everything. never takes responsibility or says sorry. If I make him say sorry he says there done bye. He doesn't mean it. When he gets what he wants he is the sweetest boy ever. I called the police because he was saying he was going to kill us after he finished punching me. They took him to the hospital and they said what do you want me to do with him. I took him home and asked how he was. (it was night time) He just finished having a shower and he was smiling and I asked him what he had behind his back. He said nothing and smiled. I reached behind him and it was a knife. I took it and said what were you going to do with that? He smiled and said "you have it now ***** so **** off". I am a single mom and took my other two children from there beds and put them in my room and looked my door and put a dresser in front of it. The next day I got him to go to a group home. They are working with him so we can get him back in the home. The first month they were like he is so sweet and maybe I need parenting help. I have taken tons of classes tried different things with my son. They made me feel like I was the bad person. But now he is doing what he did to me to them. They phoned me freaking out asking what they should do as they can not control him. I wish I could get some help so my son can have an ok life where he will not hurt anyone. If anyone has any ideas let me know.
The group home should have contacts to get him evaluated by a psychiatrist. If not, that is what you need to do. This is not something for the police. He needs medical help, and I mean the type that a psychiatrist offers.
We have a 15 y/o (almost 16) daughter that has done nothing but terrorize us for the past 8 years. We've only ever gotten ONE doctor to diagnose her as a psychopath/sociopath and no one else is wanting to believe the diagnoses. The early signs were there, we just didn't know to look for them. The lying, stealing, threatening and those cold, emotionless eyes. She has physically assaulted both my husband (her step-father) and I, me more then him since she knows she's not a match for him. She figured out in 1st grade that she could tell lies about us and get DCF/CPS involved and buried in our lives and has been using that as a constant threat to try and get her way. To date she has made well over 20, if not 30 or more, false allegations against us.Every last one has been proven false, every time. Her first was that I was her sister and my husband was our biological father and that I was pregnant with his child and on Valentines Day he was beating me and throwing me against the wall. She has accused my husband of raping her, my brother of raping her and my father of molesting her. She has told people that my husband does drugs and is an alcoholic and she has to take care of her younger siblings. She has accused me of mentally abusing her and forcing her to have sex with someone. She steals anything, and even when caught red-handed she lies and says she didn't do it. Even if she's caught on camera she will swear up and down that she didn't steal it and that the camera is lying on her. When confronted with her lies to counselors and CPS case workers, she will bald face lie and say she never said anything and she doesn't know why they are investigating us. She has pulled knives on her siblings and threatens to shank them. She has told my husband and I that she would like nothing more then to slice our throats and watch us die. An she has threatened to kill us in our sleep on more then one occasion. She has told our other kids that she'll cut their heads off. She woke our oldest son, her younger brother, up one night by grabbing and twisting his groin saying she can make sure he never has kids and that she would do it if he said anything to us about it. She has constantly skipped school, drinks, is a pill popper and has threatened suicide multiple times. She has 20+ Baker Acts in Florida, one in Wyoming and now one in Tennessee. Family has tried to helps us by letting her stay with them only to have her turn around and stab them in the back by stealing, lying and making more false allegations against them and us, even though she's not living with us during those times. She has runaway, constantly tells us that she doesn't want to live with us and she hates us and when we give in and let her stay with family, she turns around and tells everyone we abandoned her to them. She has already put one kid in jail because she lied to him about her age and got him to pick her up and have sex with her. And then knowing full well that he would go to jail if she told anyone, went to school the very next day and told everyone there, teachers and students, about it. Our other kids hate and fear her. They don't want her in their lives or ours. Every day that she's with us, the kids come home from school and ask if they're going to have to talk to CPS workers again because their sister went to school and made another accusation. We're currently sitting here with a CPS investigation going on because of her latest lie about me. And she's not even living with us right now and hasn't been in the house for about 5 months. The family that she's staying with are about to send her back to us because they can't handle it because she just attempted suicide there and was in a group home for 2 1/2 weeks for "evaluation." And before she tried the suicide bit again, she was trying to get as many guys there to sleep with her as she could. When her cousins were getting into fights at school because guys there were talking about how they were going to sleep with her an d calling her a ****, she told them to not bother with it because she was "used to being called a **** and a *****" and it didn't bother her. As my brother-in-law found out, she didn't mind because she was the one starting the rumors herself, offering to sleep with dozens of guys in notes she was passing back and forth with them. As it stands, were' constantly living in fear of having our other kids taken from us or that she'll seriously injure or even kill one of us, one of her sibling's, or even someone else at random just because she's gets mad because she didn't get her way.It feels like no one wants to listen to us or believe us and just want to blame us and our parenting for her behavior. Which, if that were true, why don't her 4 other siblings act that way? We are at our wits end and don't know what to do. We've been robbed of the joys of parenthood because of her and we honestly don't know if we can handle two more years of her living in our house. She has mentally and physically abused every single member of our house and our extended families.We're constantly being judged as bad parents all because of her and no one wants to take a moment and listen or believe us or review her history to see the proof. And no one will protect us from her, they all want to protect her and she's definitely not the one needing protection.
Oh wow, your post is shocking. Your daughter sounds very troubled, I'm sorry. So, it seems you've had her evaluated numerous times?
I hate to say it, but I would try to petition the courts to place her outside the home. The main reason being the safety and well being of your other children and you and your husband. She does NOT sound safe to be among the younger children. She's already shown that she's not just "barking" with her threats of violence, she's acted on them, and continues to threaten very violent acts.
I wish I had better advice for you, I cannot imagine being in that situation. Do you think perhaps something happened to her when she was young? It IS odd that she's the only one behaving this way out of all of your children. She absolutely needs intensive, ongoing, long term professional help (and supervision). The sad part about professional treatment is that as manipulative and dishonest as she is, I doubt they would get anywhere with her. She'd REALLY have to change and decide she WANTED things to improve for any kind of professional intervention to be successful.
I hope something changes for you, and for her. You and your daughter are in my prayers. I'm sure this is just heart wrenching. Shes' your child and you love her, but you're fearful of her, which is both sad and unfortunate. Good luck.
yes we have done everything we know to do and nothing works..we have talked to social workers in the past and they have told us if we just give her up that we would be charged with abandonment.. she gets in home counseling and outside counseling but she is able to fool them...they dont see what the rest of us see because she is able to pretend so well with them..all they want to see is the troubled little girl they dont want see who and what she really is..im at a loss i dont know what to do...i come to see that nothing is going to change its only getting worse and there is nothing that is going to help her... i dont want to give up on my daughter but i feel i have no choice...its hard to turn your back on your on child but she is hurting our whole family and i worry about other children.. we are living in pure hell and it seems like there is no way out...
i left her bio dad when she was just 3 years old because he was abusing me..he never hurt her or my oldest son... she has lived a great life with me and my husband her step dad. to answer your question nothing has happened that we know of that would cause her to act out like this.. we had a dr tell us once that its more then likely that she was born like this and there is nothing that could have been done to change what she has become...for the longest time i blamed myself because nothing i did ever helped her and ive bent over backward trying to help her and to understand her...its so hard to look at her now.. how did my baby that i gave birth to turn into this person that i dont even know? i dont understand..... i may never know what caused this...what i do know is we cant live like this anymore its not fair to our other children or to us...
yes they have and she was diagnosed with that to. She has been clinically diagnosed as; a psychopath pyromaniac, pathological liar, manipulator, child conduct disorder (until she is 18 and then it gets reclassified as Adult Conduct disorder), cruelty, attention seeker, and she has NO empathy at all.
Yep, I thought those symptoms sounded familiar. And actually, her early symptoms were very much like ADHD. Here is a link that you might be interested in.
I assume that medications have been tried but didn't work. Trouble is, if all they were medicating for was bipolar or maybe just ADHD, things might not have worked as thats a tricky combo to deal with.
And unfortunately, as kids get older they tend to go off their meds and that really will mess them up.
If you don't mind telling - what kind of meds or combination of meds have they tried?
sorry it took me so long to reply i had to cook dinner and stuff.... my daughter has been on zoloft, lithium a few others that i cant remember right off the top of my head... none of the meds worked... the lithium at first made her stare off into space then it just stopped and it seems like she got worse...
Hey, I feel for you. I have a very good friend with an older daughter who is going through a much worse phase. All I could tell him was to love her.
Medication wise - they all do work. Even if you have no problems they will do something to you. A good psyc will take what the medication is doing and then adjust from there because what the med is doing to the person is an example of how it is working and then how it should be adjusted. Hopefully, you have been dealing with a psychiatrist or someone else in that specialty field? And Lithium is heavy duty stuff (I can see the need based on what you say), but hopefully that was when she was much older. Were any meds tried between say 7 and 12?
the psychiatrist put her on lithium when she was 13 she has also been on in the past Seroquel,Risperdal those are just a few of the meds the drs have put her on over the course of about 8 years.. the med she is on now is zoloft. but non of them seem to work on her,a couple of them seem to have worked maybe a week or so then they just stopped working.like i said i just dont know what to do anymore...she is getting worse and its not just lies and stealing anymore she also cuts herself and for the life of me cant understand why she does that. she also says that voices in her head tell her to do these things and she swears that she talks to ghost and she can see them. to tell you the truth it scares the wits out of me. im not sure what to make of this anymore. i do love her and all i want is what is best for her but at the same time she scares me because she goes into the rages and she lashes out and she doesnt care who she hurts she goes after me and my oldest son the most... she pull knives on us and throws things at us breaks things..she more then once has tried to kill my son...
Those are just a few, if you do a search, you can find a bunch. I think that may be an option for you. You have to protect your family, and it sounds like there is real danger involved with the situation as it is now. I'm so sorry you're in this position. I REALLY hope you find a way to get her the help she needs.
thank you for all the info you have giving me,im going to look into it i have no choice. i wish there was more that could be done to save her but i know in heart there isnt and this really is my last hope for her... as much as love her i have to do what is best for my other kids and our family...
I have a child he is 9 years old and he is ADHD has been since he started school. I keep telling anyone who will listen to me about is lying, stealing, and could care less about consequences. He has peed in his room before and blamed the dogs for it. He lies about any and everything, he steals right now just from me and my husband but in school last year I found things that did not belong to him. I am getting scared of going to bed without locking my door because I am scared that one day he will kill me and because he has does not care about consequences he will not care I am no longer here. He has not tried anything at this time and I have had him in therapy for going on 4 years now with no help. all I get is he promises not to lie any more or he said he would not steal again. I do not see where I have anyone that will listen to what I am saying and get the help for my baby that he needs before it is to late. Where do you go to get someone to listen to you and be willing to help you without blaming you or seeing this child as what they can show to everyone else a sweet loving child when at home you cry mostly because you are tired of fighting them to do what is right. I have grounded him, took away his room, made him write sentences and even spanked him nothing works. family members will not keep him because they say he is blatantly defiant. I do not get a break even in school because I get a call all the time saying he want keep his hands to him self or he gets up and walks out of class. Where do I turn please help me.......And we moved to a new state to even help him not carry the trouble maker name with him in school and that did not work either he fooled them for like two months then he started showing them the real him. Although the teacher will say he is sweet she will talk to you about some of the trouble she is having but nothing really comes out till you get called into the office.
Hi Sonya, I am also the CL on the ADHD forum - http://www.medhelp.org/forums/ADD---ADHD/show/175 Why don't you start a new post over there? This behavior (believe it or not) is something that I have seen posted many, many times. It is so sad that you have not gotten the help that you need.
I know of some very good links that will help you with discipline, but more importantly will help you understand why he is doing what he is doing.
There are definite things that can help him in school - like a 504 plan.
Have you tried any medication and if so what?
I think that I can help, but do try and post to the site mentioned above so that you don't get lost in the 130 posts here. Really glad I decided to check this out.
My 9 almost10 year old step-daughter is lying about physical abuse. She lies, steals, and throws tantrums that are potentially dangerous and last for hours. She's seeing a counselor and has been for a year now. Today she told her babysitter that her dad hits her in the face, even chipped her tooth, that he hits her on the back with a belt for no reason. Please, help! Anyone, if you have any ideas about what to do?
My daughter does not pee on things but refuses to wipe. She is a master manipulator as well. I'm in the process of putting her back into counseling after she faked being suicidal in order to get out of her math and science classes. She has always tried to make teachers and counselors feel sorry for her and alienates herself from peers because adults are easier to manipulate. I had to warn the school counselor today not to believe my daughter, which makes me sad but it's needed. She is a middle child with an older brother who doesn't like her and a younger brother who is special needs. I'm also divorced from her father and he has made it clear that he wants to see her, and loves her, but doesn't want her living with him. I can see the problems but what is the solution?
Any chance she has ADD. It would explain a lot. And it is something that is usually missed in girls because they are not the hyper little boys. Interesting link here on ADD in girls and women. http://www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/740.html
I think that there are several people that have written in about their childs behavior that exhibit symptoms far out of the realm of the ADHD diagnosis criteria. I wonder if ADHD is an example of an "overworked diagnosis"? It appears to me that some of these kids, parents have written about are seriously mentally ill.Being either sociopaths or psychopaths.A few sound like Asbergers as well I have witnessed a child such as some describe above as well as witnessing a child with ADHD over a period of time and I don't see any correlation in behavior This must be unimaginably lonely, scary and overwhelming for these parents I can not begin to fathom how hard it is for them..I shudder as I write this but these kids used to be called Bad Seeds. These kids are incapable of love or empathy, completely lack a conscience or any form of moral compass, are master manipulators,,cunning, duplicitous to name a few and this is scary stuff (especially for families living with it) That is horrific enough to even imagine but to have to live with it, that behavior without the hope of resources, information, community support and acknowledgement is tragic for families!! it would be amazing to know that our "system" did work for a change especially for parents like these who so desperately need help and to be heard.
Sounds like what I had to go through with my oldest son. It started when he was very little too and he would steal, manipulate, lie, ease drop on other peoples conversations, pit parent against parent. He tried to take a butter knife and came after his little brother when he was 5 cause he was so jealous that time was being taken from him. He would threaten suicide and other things to get what he wanted. Me and his father divorced after 11 years. My son is 26 now an he an immature, impulsive adult now....in trouble with the law, going couch to couch, using people to get his needs met. Goes to the next sucker and tells them stories to get people to feel sorry for him and they take him in and within a month he's thrown out because of his behaviors and manipulating ways and the constant lies he tells. His own dad refuses to have him in the house, no aunts, uncles, cousins or friends want him living with them. Even his grandmother refuses to have him live with her. I'm the only one he's got and it's hard for me to deal with him. He's done this to himself and never learns from the stuff he has done cause he just keeps getting himself into messes. I'm not bailing him out of his problems anymore. He goes to jail that's where he'll sit. I know I sound bitter and I'm sorry for that but people have seen what this kid has put me through. It doesn't end when they turn 18 just so you know. I found that out. He's been in drug rehab.... He was there a week before they kicked him out for threatening another patient there. They said he was bipolar. The one thing I could say to the parents of young children who do this stuff and no body wants to believe you. Buy a hidden camera and audio and set it up in the house where it's unnoticed so things can get recorded so you have something to show these doctors. I wished I did that. Best of luck to all of you.
My son was diagnosed in the early 90's with ADHD and he was on a 504 plan at school because they considered him health impaired but the stuff he was doing there was something more than just that diagnoses. I knew something was definitely wrong with him at an early age but when we divorced my boys lived with their dad cause I didn't want them not to grow up not having grandparents, cousins, aunts and uncles around and in their lives. I didn't have that growing up cause of living in different states . Their dad had all of his family around living close to each other. I wanted them to have better than I did. Obviously my son did get the help he needed as a teenager cause his dad shipped him off to a military boarding school within a year of getting him. This school was in a different state. He wouldn't let me take him. Cause he didn't want to pay me support. Now my son is an immature adult always making stupid choices and causing so many problems for other people. He truly doesn't see he's got a problem and he won't get help or get on meds. Cause he sees everybody else is the problem not him. His own brother won't have anything to do with him. It's just sad for everyone. I wish this state had a bakers act like Florida. The second drug and alcohol treatment center I tried to get him in refused to take him cause he became belligerent and hostile while there. It's kind of funny how he plays these game..... When people kick him out and he's on the street he turns to pot and stuff but once he's under my roof he's clean cold turkey. He turns it on and off. He tells everyone " yeah I'm a drug addict!!!!!" All excited and hyped about when he tells the story to everyone like its a badge of honor and he's profundity of it. Even the army kicked him out cause of his behavior. He didn't even make it through AIT before he was chartered out because of patterns of misconduct. But he tells everyone he was in the military and they reason he got out was because he couldn't pass the PT test which is a bulls**t lie. He embellished story upon story. He a pathological liar. He needs help but he's an adult and all I can do is kick him out again.
I too have had the pleasure of trying to raise a step daughter whom I have been suspicious of being a sociopath since day one. She demonstrated all the behaviors of what ppl are mentioning. I talked to a psychiatrist and he said they do not diagnose that at least until the age of 13 yrs. She was only diagnosed with behavior disorder from the poor school system that has had to endure her rioting in the classroom for the past 10 years. I met her father when she was 10 and she was still wetting the bed every night and said it was because the rom leaked in my bottom floor apartment onto the couch she was sleeping on when she visited. Mind you there was no leak of any sort. I would find the blankets wadded up in my food pantry. Yes, I have always been afraid of waking up standing over us in bed as this was at least an every other night occurance. She was taken away from biological mother at 6 months due to mother doing drugs while pregnant and continuing to do them. Upon evaluation at birth she did have drugs in her system and mother underwent treatment and failed. The daughter then went to foster care and eventually given to my now husband. She, since I have met her, has always had above normal issues, and fathers family plays it off as it is her disabilities that cause these issues. She can get a's at school on the good years. (3 ttl now) Though I have to spend most of my energy on her day in and out and do not get any rest to achieve this. She also can behave, UNTIL, she gets what it is she is after. Then she is the spawn of Satin himself and does not care who she hurts.
She is now 15 and just this last weekend was suppose to be at a friends house for her friend's sweet sixteen party the next day. This was on Friday. She went to store with family and got stuff to do party. When everyone else went upstairs to go to bed, she called a 19 year old boy that we do not even know exists, and had him over to pick her up. She, as far as we know, as w account for her every waking minute other than in school, is not even seeing boys at all. They were found by the police in his car in a park.
Of, course, dad is furious, and overstepped discipline, as she would not talk to him about any of it after he was awoken at 4 am to go get her from police at park. I will admit, there has been many times I have wanted to whip her butt myself with her defiance and lies, and snickering in your face afterwards. Though, I have only one when she was sent for a time out and smacked my face. I have taken a great deal of parenting classes, and raised 4 children, 2 with mental disabilities such as Bi-Polar and ODD. I also have a distant relative who has a son who was institutionalized for behaviors, but now is out and living a regular life:) I am not a stranger to this behavior by no means, but this sociopath tendencies can be so overwhelming to the best parents. The step daughter of course, after making several false accusations of her father abusing her, including when he wasn't even home, now had a reason to run to school and tell all. She told the social worker she had her mother's number. The social worker right off the bat, checked into it and found her to be manipulative. The step- daughter said she wanted to go live with the mother that she hasn't had contact from in over 11 years, because she said from what she has heard from others that know her mom, there would be no rules there. This of course, she denies saying to the social worker. ( The mother has had seven kids and has custody of the last one merely due to child's father being in the home) She also denies saying anything at school, which to me, was a blessing because now they will do something about all of it.
The SD was in the front room at time of meeting with social worker when I asked if there were specialized therapists that work with this kind of thing. After she left SD (grounded indefinitely) comes back out of her room and says. " I was thinking that maybe talking to you or my daughter will do me more good than therapy". I felt like the SH** was getting deep this time for her to be pulling out all the straws. I told her that we gave her all the help we can and that we have to leave it to the professionals now. ( She has been in counseling for years before and hate every minute of it as they see her true colors after a month or so with 3 days a week) Also, her dad is on purposely not talking to anyone for 2 days to give her the impression he is mad as a wet hornet. He works third shift and as soon as he left she came out here crying asking about what she can do to make her dad not mad at her anymore. Now her world is shrinking and it is working like a charm. We are gonna' play this out for a so maybe she can remember for a spell.
She doesn't have empathy other than taught, behaviors and feelings towards everyone.
The father was just talked to about more effective ways to discipline as the social worker was of foreign descent and said if either of her twin daughters did that at 15 they would be lucky to get off so easy with their father.
She however, is getting more therapy and counseling than she thought was even possible, as she is under my insurance, and it is fortunately very good. Her wanna' be, run around, teen years just came to an abrupt halt now that she has no where else to turn with the negativity. I am just hoping it will help her in the other areas as well, as this has kept our lives in uproar at least 6 months of every year for the past almost 6 yrs. She was also like this as a young child and in school from what I have heard from her aunts and school counselor. I will not beat her or throw her to the wolves, so to speak, but if she resides under my roof, she will show daily that she will be respectable, or she will go to school( aka: counseling) to learn to do so.
Bottom line is with anyone like her. If the people they know as parents don't care, it will liter our neighborhoods with more criminals and single parents with children needing care from the system. This is not to be taking lightly and I myself would respect anyone who can not be left to deal with this as this is one of my toughest struggles to date. I can not see this as anything more than a challenge as I have already been here for almost 6 years and only have 2-3 left before she moves out and I can have my life back. I also know I may sound a little rough around the edges about this, but I have learned to be one tough cookie:) Good luck to all of you, and I hope from somewhere deep down you can find the strength to muster on in your journey. These kids are misguided by their own brains and we can only teach them how they SHOULD feel and think, as they do not know otherwise. No one needs a diagnosis for this, and if she straightens out soon, she could be actually accepted into the college and then the workforce and American every day life. There is hope, we just gotta' find the will:)
Yes, he can get the services of an IEP if the child meets the criteria for one of the 13 areas of a disabling condition for that state. Each state has different sets of criteria for each disabling condition. Suggesting that the parent sue the school district for not following through with an evaluation might get the parent some money, but that money won't fix the child. As an experienced special education teacher, I can tell you that I haven't found anything that changes the manipulative nature and improves the lack of empathy that these children have. I understand what these parents are talking about and suggesting that a change in the family dynamics might be the cause is an insult. I do agree that if the school district can offer some services it will help to get him get some small group services. The teacher will then be able to support the parent when trying to explain the extreme behaviors with a therapist.. An IEP will also protect him from being suspended if the behaviors are a result of the disabling condition.
our five year old daughter has been doing all of these things short of threatening our lives, she has almost killed her grandparents dog by wrapping a leash around its neck and body, constantly hurts our pets, sneaks around all night and wakes up her year old brother and sometimes her 4month old brother. She hurts both her brothers by hitting them with objects and pushing her one year old brother off of chairs and into tables, is constantly arguing thinks she is always right, lies all the time, pees in her room even though we keep the lights on at night so she can get to the bathroom without fear of the dark, has stolen her mothers jewelry and my expensive items from in our room while we sleep. She hurts herself by scratching and pulling her hair and running into walls, lies to friends and teachers about where the marks come from saying it was us. We have had social services called on us numerous times because of this and each time we are given the all clear. We have also moved provinces to give her a better life and a new start. We are at our witts end with it all we have told her we are going to take her to the hospital and she welcomes it gets ready and everything and when we do go acts like the perfect angel so the doctors send us packing without any help at all. Phsycologists just keep saying she is to young to assess. My wife feels trapped at home while I am at work and is worried of even having a shower by herself cause she is worried that our daughter is going to hurt the other children. We have tried all sorts of punishments from time outs to a vast majority of other types of disipline nothing works in fact she tells us it wont work and that we are waisting our time. It may sound screwed up but it is a relief to find out we are not the only ones going through this though very upsetting that none of us have answers on how to deal with this short of addmitting them, I love my daughter dearly as she is my first born when we thought we couldnt have kids. We feel like we are failing her and getting angry with eachiother due to the stress that is put on us. We have lost multiple homes due to her behaviour and lost all damage deposits due to the damage she has done to her rooms and other rooms. We try to get her nice toys/bedding and it all gets destroyed. ''
signed a stressed dad
Hi Everyone. I haven't been back on here in a while. I have gotten a few messages but I haven't really felt up to answering them. Shortly after I made this post my kids were taken from me by child services. At the time my older son was just turning 11 and my baby was 16 months. It was a nightmare. Cody had been telling his special ed teacher that we were abusing him. Telling her horrible stories that could not possibly have been true. For example she said I would withhold food for days at a time or I would throw him down on the kitchen floor when he refused to do his homework. He never ever missed school so that should tell her that he was able to eat and that I didn't beat him since there were never ever any bruises. Unfortunately he is an amazing liar and she wanted to believe that she was helping him. She called CPS repeatedly and to the point that they were at my house every couple of days to check on him and my home. I even agreed to let them have someone come out everyday for 2hrs so that they could monitor him and the situation. So at that point we had their worker and a counselor out every day but still she kept making reports and he kept lying to her and others at the school. But never did he lie to CPS and tell them that I did any of these things.
Well one day CPS showed up at my house with an order to remove my baby from my home. They agreed that there was no evidence of physical abuse but said that since my son kept making these allegations then there was obviously something wrong in the home and so they put "emotional abuse" on the order and took my baby. I was told they were putting both kids in the same home and I was absolutely terrified. I got all the reports about Cody threatening to kill the baby and begged them on my knees on the street to keep them separated. Thankfully they did. If for no other reason than to cover themselves in case something happened.
Cody was at school so they took him from there. I didn't see either of my kids for 5 days while I waited for court. When I got to court they told me that Cody had been placed with his special ed teacher since they had a previous relationship. Apparently she had gone through the process of getting certified as a foster parent while she was making all the reports so that she could have Cody and my baby when they were removed from my home.
I was able to get my baby back after 2 months but only after I agreed to let them keep Cody while I went through parenting classes. We dealt with the state for over 3 yrs. They kept telling me that Cody couldn't come home because he would never let me parent him but I wanted to try. Eventually they agreed to let him come home 2 1/2 yrs after he was taken.
This was after tons of therapy and lots of lies. When he came home he immediately went back to his old tricks. He started lying to me about his dad. Told his caseworkers that I made him stay in his room all day after we had spent the day at the lake and zoo. He pretended to overdose on his meds (he wasn't taking them in foster care and I had to start him back on them at home) and I called 911 just so they could tell me that even though he was out of it and vomitting that he was fine. The next day we went to his therapist and he spent 2hrs, while we were in the waiting room, vomiting on himself rather than using the provided trashcan and acting totally spaced out. His therapist told him to cut it out and act right but couldnt do anything else or say if he was faking. We had to carry him to the car and strap him in. When we got home he jumped out of the car and ran into the house. I went into his room and asked if he was feeling better and he said "Oh yeah, I was faking. I'm done now though. I'm gonna go play with my friends." I was heartbroken. If he was willing to hurt himself like that to upset me then what else was he capable of?
We decided that we had no choice and gave him back to the state. 2 months later I signed over my rights to him and he wasn't my son anymore. He was adopted by his foster mother a few months after that and I didnt hear from him again for about 2 years. When he called he asked why we had moved. Apparently he had someone take him by our old house and saw that we didn't live there anymore. He also went by my husband's past employer and was looking for him. We haven't told him where we live and I refuse to let him see my younger son even though Cody asks to visit regularly. He called from a mental hospital and begged to come home. I told him absolutely not. Even though he swears that he has changed.
He is 16 now and his adoptive mother had him removed from her home a few months ago after he hit her during an outburst. He is living in a group home which is basically a large medical facility. He will be there until he is 18 and after that we don't know.
It has been really hard. All the downs and really far downs had a huge impact on my health and on the development of my younger son. He has anxiety issues and other developmental issues that were caused from being taken from us and from us spending every spare moment trying to get his brother home. Finally giving up Cody was the best thing that I have done. I think I hurt everyone more by holding on to something and someone that wasn't ever going to work. I love Cody and always will but when I think of him it will always be the sweet 5 yr old boy that loved me and everyone else that I will picture in my head.
My wife caught my son choking the dog yesterday while I was at school, finishing my MA in Psychology. He is 5 and I wanted to see what had caused this behavior or if it was something he had seen or experienced from one of his friends. He does not display the common traits of a personality disorder but after reading your post and those of some of the other people on this blog I thought you needed some support and information. Just some information for you and hopefully a direction of treatment at the end:
The common features of a psychopath and sociopath lie in their shared diagnosis — antisocial personality disorder. The DSM-5 defines antisocial personality as someone have 3 or more of the following traits:
1.Regularly breaks or flaunts the law
2.Constantly lies and deceives others
3.Is impulsive and doesn’t plan ahead
4.Can be prone to fighting and aggressiveness
5.Has little regard for the safety of others
6.Irresponsible, can’t meet financial obligations
7.Doesn’t feel remorse or guilt
Symptoms start before age 15, so by the time a person is an adult, they are well on their way to becoming a psychopath or sociopath.
Psychology researchers generally believe that psychopaths tends to be born — that it’s a genetic predisposition — while sociopaths tend to be made by their environment. The last part of that sentence is particularly important. If you think your child is suffering from sociopathic tendencies and state that to a caretaker, they may indeed look at you as the problem. Here is the thing as I see it, if you, in your heart are part of the problem then own it. Realize that you are a human being and made mistakes, what makes you an adult is realizing that you have to be honest in order to seek treatment for your child. If you had nothing to do with the current situation then realize your child might be a psychopath. Either way a clear and thorough evaluation of the child must be completed.
Psychopaths, in general, have a hard time forming real emotional attachments with others. Instead, they form artificial, shallow relationships designed to be manipulated in a way that most benefits the psychopath. But psychopaths can often be seen by others as being charming and trustworthy.
Researchers tend to believe that sociopathy is the result of environmental factors, such as a child or teen’s upbringing in a very negative household that resulted in physical abuse, emotional abuse, or childhood trauma. Sociopaths, in general, tend to be more impulsive and erratic in their behavior than their psychopath counterparts.
Both psychopaths and sociopaths present risks to society, because they will often try and live a normal life while coping with their disorder. But psychopathy is likely the more dangerous disorder, because they experience a lot less guilt connected to their actions. Not all people we’d call a psychopath or sociopath are violent. Violence is not a necessary ingredient (nor is it for a diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder) — but it is often present.
Psychologists call these kinds of childhood behaviors a conduct disorder. Conduct disorders involve four categories of problem behavior:
◾Aggression to people and animals
◾Destruction of property
◾Deceitfulness or theft
◾Serious violations of rules
If you recognize these symptoms (and the specific symptoms of conduct disorder) in a child or young teen, they’re at greater risk for antisocial personality disorder.
Taken from : Differences Between a Psychopath vs Sociopath
By John M. Grohol, Psy.D.
I would recommend seeking help from a Psychiatrist with a care team. The care team would also consist of a Psychologist, Associate Psychologist and possibly some nurses. Initially you need to go see the Psychiatrist by yourself or with your spouse. This would be required so that you can fully explain the actions of your child, the manipulations that have occurred and any other information that you think would be pertinent. The Psychiatrist will consult with the Psych's and determine the course of action from there. Good luck and my thoughts are with you!
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