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Son with no self-control/diagnosed add/possible aspergers
I am at a loss for our son. We have him in therapy and it does not seem to help. What do you do with a child who takes no responsibility for actions, no self control, doesn't follow rules (home or otherwise), makes people mad on purpose, doesn't follow through with instructions for chores, ignores requests, cannot make friends because he annoys them, desires friendships but has none because they can't stand his behaviors, is rigid in thinking, argues everything, will not follow through with instruction,and this year he got so fixated on a disagreement over a violation of his religious rights that when she wouldn't budge he burnt himself, then they call children services to investigate. We have other children and we are afraid his choices or whatever is going on with him is putting our family at risk and himself. If you compliment any progress he will sabatoge it. We have done rewards, consequences, contracts, charts, grounding,severe discipline times, light discipline times and he is on Concerta and zoloft. It is like he needs the supervison of a toddler. This is overwhelming and exhausting on our family. He can be fun but will ruin it by starting arguments or getting handsy with people or name call. He takes everything personally. Therapy does not seem to be working. What can we do?
Goodness how old is this child you have these expectations of?Sounds like the therapy is needed by the Family that care for this child not him..
I think I would take Asperger's syndrome completely off the table.
Who is diagnosing him that would consider Aspergers with this grouping of behaviors?
Who is diagnosing him that would consider Aspergers with this grouping of behaviors?
New testing was done and will get results this week, but as for now it is Adhd and possible aspergers.Concerta was for adhd and the zoloft was prescribed because he gets vocal tics on stimulants. Not the best choice but it is what I guess needs to be done otherwise we have nothing to help with hyperactivity. Have asked dr. about other meds, but doesn't seem to offer anything else. I don't know that meds is the only answer.
You are bold in your response. We love our son and have always tried everything any professional and non professionals have suggested we try. We have taken parenting classes to better understand teens or even for other tips or ideas. We are in this with him, we are not pawning him off for someone else to deal with and believe he is a wonderful kid who has a great personality and potential. Intellectually he is very smart. Socially he does is extremely immature all. I am here using this as another possible source to help us be able to help him reach his potential socially so that kids will want to be his friend. We do have therapy with him. We also have other children and know that kids will be kids and they mature with time. He just isn't maturing with time. Our expectations are realistic at least according to the school and therapist since they have the same expectations. I am hear looking for suggestions or words of hope that someone else has dealt with similiar things and what they can offer up for wisdom.
2 different school psychologist and 1 private psychologist have all suggested possible aspergers and that is one of the test we will be getting back this week. From what I have read up on aspergers he does display some othe traits with talking excessively about things that interest him and does not pick up on social cues as the most obvious ones.
I feel your pain and I do know how stressful a child with special needs that are mostly behavioral can be on a family. I hope you have someone that can watch him so you can get time away. Does he attend public school? If so, does he have a behavioral plan? Has Oppositional Defiant been mentioned at all? Is the Dr. that you mentioned a psychiatrist? If not, I would take him to see one. If so, and he does not offer any other ideas, I would change his Dr. How long has he been taking these meds? Have other meds been tried? Has he ever been on a mood stabilizer or anti-depressants? I understand that no one wants to medicate a child but in order for him to be more productive and lead a somewhat normal life, he needs to be on the right meds. Does he go to therapy?
If we need to go out we can leave him home by himself. When by himself he is okay the worst he does is eat things he shouldn't (someone else's or told not that for anther meal or until something is all gone). He does attend public school and they do not seem to suggest much just suspend him. I have asked about oppositional difiant and was suggest no, but maybe new testing will say otherwise. He has been taking meds since 4th grade. He has never been on mood stabilizer but I understand zoloft to be an anti-depressent. He has a dr. appt. tuesday and we are going to ask about a mood stabilizer.He does go to therapy and loves going, however he doesn't take their suggestions to him on how to handle conflict situations or even suggestions in other areas he just goes off his impulse. It as if he know right from wrong, what you would do in most situations,but when it comes down to it for him, he lacks the ability to follow through in action what he knows in his mind. If this were just a few areas it would not be so overwelming but this is all areas in all environments. We are willing to do whatever we can that is within our finances. We have looked into behavioral camps or schools, but the finances are not there. I don't want him to be away, I would like him to succeed at home & have his siblings enjoy him.
My son is taking abilify for his moods and it has been a miracle. I have heard so much about applied behavior working for these kids but it is also expensive and insurance does not cover it. I cannot wait until the world wakes up and realizes it would be easier and cheaper to help our children at a young age instead of institutionalizing them as adults.
The school should have him on an IEP (Individual Education Plan) with a behavior plan in place. You can ask them at any time to evaluate your son. If they have been kicking him out due to behaviors they have to show where they have tried to help him. If their behavior plan doesn't help him then they will have to change it until it does. We have been fighting them for 3 years and have learned a lot in the process. We have come along ways but the public school in our area is not very knowledgeable about working with children with behaviors. For some reason they feel the child can control all of their behaviors and they choose to get in trouble. They will not tell you your rights but there are child advocates that will help you defend your child if needed.
I am so sorry that you have to go through all of this and most people will not have a clue the stress that you are under. I know you love your son or you would have given up along time ago. Do you know any other parents in a similar situation that you can vent with? I find that to be more helpful than anything else. Talking to average people with normal children can make things worse because then I find myself defending my parenting skills instead of sharing ideas that might work.
I would read up on Oppositional Defiant because you have described that to a T. If you are not happy will the evaluation that you get, you can always get a second opinion. Parents know their children better than anyone else and we have to be their advocate all of their lives. Researching as much as you can will help you get DRs. to listen to your thoughts and feelings. Does your son have any delays or is his IQ in the normal range? Good Luck and I am looking forward to hear what you find out from his latest eval. I find all of these different diagnoses interesting and I love to hear what works because I am also up for trying whatever will work for these kids.
The school should have him on an IEP (Individual Education Plan) with a behavior plan in place. You can ask them at any time to evaluate your son. If they have been kicking him out due to behaviors they have to show where they have tried to help him. If their behavior plan doesn't help him then they will have to change it until it does. We have been fighting them for 3 years and have learned a lot in the process. We have come along ways but the public school in our area is not very knowledgeable about working with children with behaviors. For some reason they feel the child can control all of their behaviors and they choose to get in trouble. They will not tell you your rights but there are child advocates that will help you defend your child if needed.
I am so sorry that you have to go through all of this and most people will not have a clue the stress that you are under. I know you love your son or you would have given up along time ago. Do you know any other parents in a similar situation that you can vent with? I find that to be more helpful than anything else. Talking to average people with normal children can make things worse because then I find myself defending my parenting skills instead of sharing ideas that might work.
I would read up on Oppositional Defiant because you have described that to a T. If you are not happy will the evaluation that you get, you can always get a second opinion. Parents know their children better than anyone else and we have to be their advocate all of their lives. Researching as much as you can will help you get DRs. to listen to your thoughts and feelings. Does your son have any delays or is his IQ in the normal range? Good Luck and I am looking forward to hear what you find out from his latest eval. I find all of these different diagnoses interesting and I love to hear what works because I am also up for trying whatever will work for these kids.
Thank you for your help. I will read up more on the ODD. He has an above average IQ which is another dilemma. He does have an IEP and this is the first year he qualified for one after having been tested 2 times before. I got the number of a advocate before we had our last IEP meeting and she never called back. Starting to feel helpless. The dilemma with his IQ is he can do the work in the classes, but in our school district it was explained to me if he goes in to a behavioral or emotionally handicapped class setting then he will not receive a diploma and he knows that means in our state you will not get into a college without a core40 diploma. He got a one day suspension from the bus for today because on friday he threw a empty pop bottle at a boy on the bus that was "making him mad" and "would not leave him alone", I mentioned to her that he did not get his meds that morning and she said that was no excuse. Which to me it is not an excuse, just an explanation of why he may have done that on this day and other days he has not. He answer to me was maybe he needs to ride the special needs bus. Instead of my suggestion of having him sit right behind her so that she can see and hear him at all times.
To a point I get frustrated because schools push medicate you kids with the thought that it will be better, and it usually is. But if they miss it and their behavior is bad that day they say it does not excuse it and punish them just the same even knowing the medication helps.
I do feel like I am on the defensive of our parenting and we do not know any other parents who deal with this.
I will keep you posted what the dr. says.
I have a few questions whether abilify would work for my son, only because the concerta causes vocal tics, and I have heard abilify can cause irreversable involuntary body movements.
Is your child on concerta or other meds with abilify?
To a point I get frustrated because schools push medicate you kids with the thought that it will be better, and it usually is. But if they miss it and their behavior is bad that day they say it does not excuse it and punish them just the same even knowing the medication helps.
I do feel like I am on the defensive of our parenting and we do not know any other parents who deal with this.
I will keep you posted what the dr. says.
I have a few questions whether abilify would work for my son, only because the concerta causes vocal tics, and I have heard abilify can cause irreversable involuntary body movements.
Is your child on concerta or other meds with abilify?
i am not big on medications curing all our problems, i am also not a doctor so have no idea what kind of things they could test for. I just dont understand the situation for what you wrote. how did it get to this point? what was his actions like before he was 15. what are your response to his actions? do you ignore most of it, or do you constant remind him what the rules are? do you spend time communicating with him? is he mentally able to understand what you are saying? And please believe me i am not trying to bash you in any way.
the main thing that came across to was this kid has an anger issue and what in the world is he so angry about. you are right, your son has no self control, why does he think it is okay to act out like that incident on the bus, not only would i be horrified if my 15 yr old acted out that way (and would start driving him to school myself) but i also be very upset if that was my child your son hit. And i would not have been satisified with your excuse that your son forgot to take his medication that morning. if that was my child your son hit, i would be hell fire mad and would want your son off the bus and out of the school. I only say this to give you the prespictive of what other people think. is he a danger to other people? and what did your son have to say about why he hit the boy? that he did it because the boy was"making him mad" and "would not leave him alone", and when you told him that is not right to lash out at people, what did your son say? if he is above average, i dont understand why he doesnt understand his actions are wrong and undesireable. but that is not what i came on to say....
i actually was wondering besides school and home, does he have any other activities to do, after school programs, sports, or church activities? possiblity a job? with his behavior i can see he probably is not on the football team, but have you considered maybe some other type of sport? maybe karate classes, or boxing which might even help him be more responsible and self control which in turn might eventually making friends. or some other type of class or activity where there are other children his age, but the class/activity doesnt have much interaction between them, that way they cant get annoyed by what he says or does at first, plus it gives him something in common with other kids. what does he do activily, to vent, to hit out, to exercise, to move, get some of that frustration out, to get tired out from activities?
another thing i thought, was maybe this kid is just bored. is it possible school is too easy for him? you did not mention what his grades are.
you said "He can be fun but will ruin it by starting arguments or getting handsy with people or name call. He takes everything personally" i am sure you tell him you dont mean it to personally and maybe between you and your son you can come up with some kind of code word that tells him when he is getting to that annoy part and he needs to stop. maybe he is just thinking that he is being funny and pushing it too far, if you can say something that will tell him to stop it might make thing more "fun" for the whole family.
okay so he is on "Concerta was for adhd and the zoloft was prescribed because he gets vocal tics on stimulants", i might be wrong here, but concerta is a stimulant for adhd (right?) and because he gets vocal tics you are giving him an anti-depressant? dont that counteract each other? you have had this poor boy on medication and therapy since the 4th grade? you also said they are not working, so you want to get him tested and put him on MORE drugs and therapy?
what is his response to all this? it is his life and he is old enough to be responsible and understand what you are saying even if he is not acting responsible.
again, i am not trying to put you down. i hope that i was able to give you something new to think about. and possibly some new angles to try. raising children is not easy, but i commend you for just the simple fact that you are trying to find an answer. i might just be in a whole different playing field since i still cant figure out exactly what your son has? besides adhd, and possible but not proven autism, you didnt mention anything else, but i possibly might be barking up the wrong tree.
Good luck to you and God Bless.
the main thing that came across to was this kid has an anger issue and what in the world is he so angry about. you are right, your son has no self control, why does he think it is okay to act out like that incident on the bus, not only would i be horrified if my 15 yr old acted out that way (and would start driving him to school myself) but i also be very upset if that was my child your son hit. And i would not have been satisified with your excuse that your son forgot to take his medication that morning. if that was my child your son hit, i would be hell fire mad and would want your son off the bus and out of the school. I only say this to give you the prespictive of what other people think. is he a danger to other people? and what did your son have to say about why he hit the boy? that he did it because the boy was"making him mad" and "would not leave him alone", and when you told him that is not right to lash out at people, what did your son say? if he is above average, i dont understand why he doesnt understand his actions are wrong and undesireable. but that is not what i came on to say....
i actually was wondering besides school and home, does he have any other activities to do, after school programs, sports, or church activities? possiblity a job? with his behavior i can see he probably is not on the football team, but have you considered maybe some other type of sport? maybe karate classes, or boxing which might even help him be more responsible and self control which in turn might eventually making friends. or some other type of class or activity where there are other children his age, but the class/activity doesnt have much interaction between them, that way they cant get annoyed by what he says or does at first, plus it gives him something in common with other kids. what does he do activily, to vent, to hit out, to exercise, to move, get some of that frustration out, to get tired out from activities?
another thing i thought, was maybe this kid is just bored. is it possible school is too easy for him? you did not mention what his grades are.
you said "He can be fun but will ruin it by starting arguments or getting handsy with people or name call. He takes everything personally" i am sure you tell him you dont mean it to personally and maybe between you and your son you can come up with some kind of code word that tells him when he is getting to that annoy part and he needs to stop. maybe he is just thinking that he is being funny and pushing it too far, if you can say something that will tell him to stop it might make thing more "fun" for the whole family.
okay so he is on "Concerta was for adhd and the zoloft was prescribed because he gets vocal tics on stimulants", i might be wrong here, but concerta is a stimulant for adhd (right?) and because he gets vocal tics you are giving him an anti-depressant? dont that counteract each other? you have had this poor boy on medication and therapy since the 4th grade? you also said they are not working, so you want to get him tested and put him on MORE drugs and therapy?
what is his response to all this? it is his life and he is old enough to be responsible and understand what you are saying even if he is not acting responsible.
again, i am not trying to put you down. i hope that i was able to give you something new to think about. and possibly some new angles to try. raising children is not easy, but i commend you for just the simple fact that you are trying to find an answer. i might just be in a whole different playing field since i still cant figure out exactly what your son has? besides adhd, and possible but not proven autism, you didnt mention anything else, but i possibly might be barking up the wrong tree.
Good luck to you and God Bless.
I have been mad also when other kids have hit my kids, so yes I understand that perspective remember I have more children who are not like him and part of my frustration is because I hate the thought of my kid hurting someone else, unacceptable. My answer to his med situation isn't necessarily to add but maybe even take away or just change. I wish he didn't need meds and was anti-med, obviously I waited till 4th grade before giving in and all natural options not helping. I do not tell the dr. what to prescribe, I bring in reports from teachers and tell what things go on at home. As for concerta and zoloft counteracting each other, I do not know but the combo helps just not sure it helps enough or maybe not right combo. As far as driving goes, that is a privilege and behavior would have to be different and a pattern of good choices and responisble behavior for us to even consider helping him get on the road.Is he involved in activities? Yes he is involved in church and helps in the kitchen when they have conferences and such, which he enjoys. We told him he needed to commit to at least one after school activity and he chose chess club which he will start this week, It will be 2 days a week. We told him as behavior would improve we would pay for him some animation classes because he loves to draw. He tends to have a pattern of being zealous to start but interest is no sustained, which in our house the rule has been if you start you must finish, but you do not have to do again if you did not like it. His social behaviors have always been there, which for a long time I just thought maybe he was a bad kid, because he is always disciplined and is never off the hook for his behaviors. Now that he is a teenager it just seems worse or just less tolerable because more is expected of him at this age. As consisitant as his behaviors have been we have been just as consistant to redirect, talk with, reason with, and discipline. We have never told him it was okay and have always made his apologize to anyone his behavior has affected. As far as code words to help him, done that and do that he chooses to ignore for whatever reason. As I say we have tried and do many things suggested. This child does not respond to these things. Yes we have tried them for more than a week or month with understanding some things take time to see results. Boxing and karate would be great however knowing my kid, would you really want him to know how to fight, at this point he doesn't physically fight he annoys others till they hit him and he can play victim or throw something at them. The bus driver did say the other boy was goating him but my son needed to use self-control. She is correct and he was disciplined for this. However, do you think a child who picks on someone because they can get them mad should be consequenced? Or is it just the child with an anger problem. Speaking of anger problem, we have addressed this in therapy and he says he is not and we haven't gotten to any thing that would maybe be the root of any anger as of yet.
We have talked with him and continue to talk with him at his age level. He says he doesn't like the pills but does admit he has better days when he takes care of them. There have been times when he has forgotten them and has called home to ask me to bring them to him to take. I sometimes do and sometimes I won't because if he recognizes he needs them than it is his responsibility to make sure he takes them. He is ridiculed at school most things he brings on himself but somethings it just kids picking on him. We have dr appts this week that will give us diagnosis. As of right now we know he has adhd. I don't know what experience you have with any children with behavioral problems and to what extent those behavioral problems are. But, my son is above average INTELLECTUALLY but way below average SOCIALLY which is where his problems are. How can he be so smart and not grasp these things ? That is our question? We must do something right because our other children respond to talking and discipline, there is just something with him.
We have talked with him and continue to talk with him at his age level. He says he doesn't like the pills but does admit he has better days when he takes care of them. There have been times when he has forgotten them and has called home to ask me to bring them to him to take. I sometimes do and sometimes I won't because if he recognizes he needs them than it is his responsibility to make sure he takes them. He is ridiculed at school most things he brings on himself but somethings it just kids picking on him. We have dr appts this week that will give us diagnosis. As of right now we know he has adhd. I don't know what experience you have with any children with behavioral problems and to what extent those behavioral problems are. But, my son is above average INTELLECTUALLY but way below average SOCIALLY which is where his problems are. How can he be so smart and not grasp these things ? That is our question? We must do something right because our other children respond to talking and discipline, there is just something with him.
I haven't had the time to read all the mesages but it sounds like you are in the boat I was in when my son was 15 - he is now 20. I do know how very hard it is when you have exhausted so many routes - as you have. My son's behaviors were so severe that he ended up in a state juvenile facility from age 16 to 17 1/2.
Just a thought - do you think it would help to form sort of an "advisory council" of family and professionals you trust and get a concensus on their thoughts about your son - maybe some advixe from them? It might help you sort through these past few months - I am sure you are mentally and physically exhausted.
All the best.
Just a thought - do you think it would help to form sort of an "advisory council" of family and professionals you trust and get a concensus on their thoughts about your son - maybe some advixe from them? It might help you sort through these past few months - I am sure you are mentally and physically exhausted.
All the best.
I just went back and read the postings in more detail. Does your county offer any "Developmental Support" funds? I was able to tap into them in my county and it "bought" me service hours from several behavioral analysts - they were great in providing the best advice since they see so many kinds of behaviors. Don't lose confidence in yourself - and if you feel you have explored it all - as the great Mom I am sure you are - then let yourself think about what is best for your family. These are hard issues with no clearcut answers and it would be great as parents if each child could come with instructions. :)
Thank you for your response. I will call today to see if our county has any fundings for this area. Any suggestions or programs anyone knows of is helpful and worth looking into. I know I have an exceptional kid, and I really believe that he has a ton of potential and when we can tap into what will work for him, what ever means that will be, his whole life will be changed and we can enjoy dealing with just the "normal" teenage stuff. His siblings love him but you are right we are all under stress with this. Any advice on how you can help a kid who demands so much of you and to make sure the siblings don't begin to think that is how to get our attention? Right now they talk to us about feeling like everything is always about him. They are talking to us about how they feel. To tell you the truth at times we do get wrapped up in dealing with him that we need them to let us know when too much focus is on him and not enough on them.
Yes - I understand. I had to deal with that (and still do) My oldest was always getting the attention and my younger one was not. He is 4 years younger. I found it was possible to explain to my younger boy - once we started talking about the attention issue more openly and more frequently we began to understand each other and the imbalance of attention. It's not perfect but is out in the open as an open topic.
I hope your county does have some supports you can tap into. You might want to check your school district too - sometimes they have things they just don't publicize. And is your city large enough to have a behavioral manangment dept. at one of your hosptials?
Hang in there
I hope your county does have some supports you can tap into. You might want to check your school district too - sometimes they have things they just don't publicize. And is your city large enough to have a behavioral manangment dept. at one of your hosptials?
Hang in there
Did not get a response today about any fundings hopefully someone will call me back tomorrow. We live in a large county so there might be something. I may try calling the investigator who came to our house when our son burnt himself, he did mention some kind of program but that funds had run out for the year(2008) when he checked into it. I may call him and see exactly what program he was talking about. He was a very nice man and tried to be helpful with us but if there is no funds there is no funds. I have asked schools for any ideas or what they offer. They seem to only offer "special ed" classes and programs but nothing specific to our needs. I find school districts not very forth coming. It is becoming more and more evident that parents are the best to find out what is out there. Thanks for your help and words of encouragement. By the way today was a good day for the WHOLE family.
http://www.cincinnatichildrens.org/svc/alpha/c/special-needs/resources/indiana.htm
Indiana special needs resources
I looked at your profile and it says your are from Indiana. When I searched, this is what I found. I would call as many as possible, tell them your story, and see what they have available. It is amazing what is available but, you do have to locate the help yourself.
Indiana special needs resources
I looked at your profile and it says your are from Indiana. When I searched, this is what I found. I would call as many as possible, tell them your story, and see what they have available. It is amazing what is available but, you do have to locate the help yourself.
Looks like you got some great info from momagain59.
You are right - the shcools aren't very forthcoming. Does he have a caseworker at school who can advocate for you and your family.
Very glad you had a good day.
You are right - the shcools aren't very forthcoming. Does he have a caseworker at school who can advocate for you and your family.
Very glad you had a good day.
Hi,
I too have a similar child., but she is only five!
Have you tried Risperidone?
It is for symptoms that you describe.
Someone else mentioned abilify.
I think that therapy is great (and our daughter is in occupational therapy and regular play therapy) but kids who have severe brain chemistry issues, need medication. And, to not give them meds is cruel. I am glad that you have him medicated if that is what he needed.
It does sound like posssible Asperger's to me. ODD can be a part of asperger's, as can ADHD and other fun things.
Angi
I too have a similar child., but she is only five!
Have you tried Risperidone?
It is for symptoms that you describe.
Someone else mentioned abilify.
I think that therapy is great (and our daughter is in occupational therapy and regular play therapy) but kids who have severe brain chemistry issues, need medication. And, to not give them meds is cruel. I am glad that you have him medicated if that is what he needed.
It does sound like posssible Asperger's to me. ODD can be a part of asperger's, as can ADHD and other fun things.
Angi
Girl, I feel your pain.....I pray to God that we will be in a better situation by the time he is the age of your son. My son is 7, with all the same traits plus some other social "awkwardness". Most of the parents who have commented on your questions are ones that have commented on mine. Most are very compassionate people and the ones that discourage you should not of commented if they have never been in your situation. But as you'll notice there is 5 supportive people for every person who feels they need to "push their agenda" off on you. I worked in pharmaceuticals for 10 yrs and I promise you I was one of the people who used to think I will NEVER medicate my child, yet here I am...... I feel for you! We are going through the same struggles with our child and family...and it is very frustrating. I often say he is more work than my 2 yr old and 8 mo old combined. And he is!!! I would like to think of myself as a strong Christian woman, yet sometimes my faith in this situation is tested. I can only suggest that on days where you feel like everyone is against you in this situation and there is no help in sight. PRAY, then PRAY again, and CRY it all out!!!!!! Then on the "good" days praise God for that day because we both know that maybe that was a gift for us! I don't know about you but those are few and far between for us and usually come as I feel that I just can't take anything more! I know this probably sounds like I am crazy........here are a few scriptures that I want to share with you....Luke 18:27, Matthew 11:28-30, John 3:1-6 & John 3:34, II Corinthians 12:9 & Psalm 91:15, Proverbs 3:5- 6, Philippians 4:13, I Peter 5:7, Hebrews 13:5.... this is the ONLY thing that keeps me positive about my son's situation. I promise that I know how you feel and I promise I will pray for you and your family! Blessings!
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