Aa
Ascites as first symptom, Dr. Appt tomorrow
Hi everyone,
I have never had any symptoms of Cirrhosis until very recently. I know I have gained weight recently due to not excessing and eating poorly but started working out and noticed I wasn't losing any weight or belly size. Then my belly seemed to be getting bigger. Finally this last week I started thinking that I had a hernia behind my belly button because I saw some puffiness there. Since then it seems to be picking up steam and I keep thinking how much bigger can I go. I looked up some stuff online and found out what Ascites was and it really sounds like a match to what is happening to me. I feel so bloated and I don't want to eat because every time I do I feel even worse and feverish...it really feels better not to eat. Also, despite not eating much...my weight is staying the same which seems to suggest accumulation of fluids.
I seem to be experiencing many of the classic symptoms of Cirrhosis other than the Ascities, although I don't feel like eating due to how full I feel and how I know I will feel afterwards.
Additionally, I have been treated for high blood pressure and just changed medications recently but the belly button expansion thing had begun prior to that change so I don't think it is related. My doctor wanted me to wait 5 days to make sure it didn't get better after I was used to the new medicine but I don't feel like I could make 5 more days expanding so I urged him to let me come in tomorrow.
In the end, I am showing a couple symptoms of Cirrhosis and a couple for Cogestive Heart Failure on the right side.
I guess I am wondering if this sounds familiar to anyone in their beginning stages. Any responses are appreciated.
I have never had any symptoms of Cirrhosis until very recently. I know I have gained weight recently due to not excessing and eating poorly but started working out and noticed I wasn't losing any weight or belly size. Then my belly seemed to be getting bigger. Finally this last week I started thinking that I had a hernia behind my belly button because I saw some puffiness there. Since then it seems to be picking up steam and I keep thinking how much bigger can I go. I looked up some stuff online and found out what Ascites was and it really sounds like a match to what is happening to me. I feel so bloated and I don't want to eat because every time I do I feel even worse and feverish...it really feels better not to eat. Also, despite not eating much...my weight is staying the same which seems to suggest accumulation of fluids.
I seem to be experiencing many of the classic symptoms of Cirrhosis other than the Ascities, although I don't feel like eating due to how full I feel and how I know I will feel afterwards.
Additionally, I have been treated for high blood pressure and just changed medications recently but the belly button expansion thing had begun prior to that change so I don't think it is related. My doctor wanted me to wait 5 days to make sure it didn't get better after I was used to the new medicine but I don't feel like I could make 5 more days expanding so I urged him to let me come in tomorrow.
In the end, I am showing a couple symptoms of Cirrhosis and a couple for Cogestive Heart Failure on the right side.
I guess I am wondering if this sounds familiar to anyone in their beginning stages. Any responses are appreciated.
Well, good news so far.
I kinda expected it may have been a hernia but not knowing your age, did not want to speculate. Hopefully upon further testing you will get some answers.
Congestive Heart is unlikely unless you have other ailments that would point to your heart. Typically this is a disease of people over 50, but not always.
Have to say I'm happy that you are addressing your drinking. As you can tell by other posters its a lousy disease to get. The good news is that its totally avoidable with cutting back or stopping drinking all together. It's human nature to think that it won't happen to us, but alcoholism has a tricky way of sneaking up on us sometimes when the damage done is irreversible. Would hate to see that happen to you.
Please keep us posted on your upcoming results. Was outta town for a few days and offline when you responded. Sorry about not getting back sooner. We have all been affected by alcohol either directly or indirectly in our lives. We will be able to help you decifer the maze of Cirrhosis or other questions and concerns.
Take care
....Kim
I kinda expected it may have been a hernia but not knowing your age, did not want to speculate. Hopefully upon further testing you will get some answers.
Congestive Heart is unlikely unless you have other ailments that would point to your heart. Typically this is a disease of people over 50, but not always.
Have to say I'm happy that you are addressing your drinking. As you can tell by other posters its a lousy disease to get. The good news is that its totally avoidable with cutting back or stopping drinking all together. It's human nature to think that it won't happen to us, but alcoholism has a tricky way of sneaking up on us sometimes when the damage done is irreversible. Would hate to see that happen to you.
Please keep us posted on your upcoming results. Was outta town for a few days and offline when you responded. Sorry about not getting back sooner. We have all been affected by alcohol either directly or indirectly in our lives. We will be able to help you decifer the maze of Cirrhosis or other questions and concerns.
Take care
....Kim
P.S. I would imagine everyone on this website has ringing in their ears. I wish I had an explanation for it. I've just gotten used to it. In perspective, things could be a lot worse than that constant Rinnnnnnnnng in the ears. I've written it of as "just one of those things". I hope all goes well for you and everyone.
Andy
Andy
Hello...
Sorry to hear you're not feeling well. I have suffered basically every life threatening symptom of Portal Hypertension, and will try to share my experience and perhaps help you get an understanding of how far reaching this problem actually is. I have bled out twice to the point of having to be hit with the paddles and put on a mechanical life support ventilator. Both times it was acute portal hypertension causing (1. a 2cm x 2cm Mallory-Weis Tear and (2. 10 varices veins burst in my esophagus. Both times I went into Hypovolemic/Transient Shock do to sudden massive blood loss.
I suffered from Acites for months on end requiring me to go to the Hospital's Interventional Radiology twice a week for Paracentesis (removal of the abdominal fluid with a large needle guided by ultra sound). One time they drained 12 liters, the max the machine could take. All of this was a direct result of Portal Hypertension. The increased pressure squeezes fluid thru the membranes of your organs into your abdomen, and the backed up pressure transfers next to the veins surrounding your esophagus causing Swollen or Ruptured Varices.
I later had a TIPS (Transjugular Intrahepatic Portosystemic Shunt) placement procedure, bypassing a large amount of Portal Vein blood past the liver and Hepatic vein. This limits the amount of blood to the liver from the GI track, hence relieving the Portal Hypertension. This is a dangerous procedure with a pretty tough 90 day mortality rate taking prior bleeds into account. It is normally done to hold you over for transplant. And, unfortunately a side effect of the procedure is Hepatic Encephalopathy (Ammonia Toxicity).
With increased Portal Pressure fluid loss to the abdomen and an injured liver not properly synthesizing proteins and/or not cleaning toxins as it normally would, you experience all kinds of chemical imbalances affecting many systems.
It does not properly supply red blood cells with clotting factors (Thrombocytopenia) - In turn your Prothrobomin Time (Time it takes your blood to clot) increases, greatly affecting your INR number and MELD score. This "Thin Blood" and increased pressure causes nose bleeds, minor cuts that just keep bleeding and the red spots and spider veins on your skin. In a worse case when mixed with portal hypertension it can cause massive bleeding in the GI track which is extremely hard to control.
Your liver leaks out Bilirubin (a waste product) into the blood because it is not properly producing Albumin, greatly affecting your MELD score. This retards production of Creatinine (again upping you Meld score) in direct correlation to your Raised ALT Enzyme.
3. Your liver does not break down all of the Ammonia (your GI track creates during digestion) into Urea (A non-toxin waste the kidneys can pass) The Ammonia (a toxin) instead goes to your muscles to break down some. That's why it is SO important to get some type of exercise (No matter how small at first) so your muscles don't waste. Because whatever Ammonia is left in your blood stream passes the Blood/Brain barrier causing Hepatic Encephalopathy (Ammonia Toxicity) You may become forgetful, clumsy, display poor hand righting and so-forth. It can become very severe if not address. Lactulose (a strong Non-soluble Sugar base laxative) keeps your GI Track passing foods quickly before they build up too much ammonia.
4. A fast moving GI track combined with Decreased Absorption by the liver causes Hyper-Metabolism. That's why they recommend 6 small meals a day rich in Fruits, Veggies, Fiber, Carbs and Non-Meat Proteins. I still eat a meat entre at dinner time every day, I just watch how much and how often. I also take Xifaxan which is an antibiotic that complements the efforts of the lactulose very well. The combo works great to reduce my symptoms of Hepatic Encephalopathy.
Your Renal System relies on the liver to maintain proper metabolism. The most important being a proper balance of Sodium and Potassium. Most people have too much sodium and not enough potassium, greatly affecting your metabolism. I eat a NO SALT diet and take a potassium supplement (as prescribed). Chronic Low Potassium (Hypokalemia) causes Tachycardia (Irregular heart rate) as potassium regulates your heart beat rhythm . That may explain your heart problems.
Also, people suffering Cirrhosis can develop Kidney problems and many suffer Renal Failure requiring dialysis due to an imbalance their chemicals. I treat it with a strict diet of whole fresh foods, tons of fruits and veggies (Dark leaf is really good for this) and I seek foods that are naturally high in potassium and NO SALT. It has served me well and every time I have blood work done my MELD score decreases. I credit most of the improvement in my condition to DIET. In fact, I went from a Decompensating Liver to a Compensating Liver Function and dropped my MELD Score from 24.4 to 7. I am no longer on the Transplant list.
The only thing I don't understand is your cuff blood pressure. Usually if you have a problem with Portal Hypertension, the Portal Vein pressure is dramatically increased and, in turn, your cuff blood pressure is very low... like 100/65 or lower. You will normally have a high resting pulse as well... like 90 or greater.
The best recommendation I could make to you is to see an Interventional Radiologist (Usually their own Dept. in a large hospital). The will preform an Abdominal Ultra Sound which will definitely show any pockets of fluid. If large enough they will preform a Paracentesis Procedure (which I found to be no big deal) and drain the fluid.
If you have repeat and often Ascites requiring Paracentesis they may evaluate you for a TIPS procedure. During the evaluation they will do a Transjugular Hepatic Vein Wedge Pressure Test, which is a same day surgical deal. If the pressure is too great, along with other secondary conditions, and warrants correction they may recommend a TIPS procedure. But try to nip all this in the bud with proper Diet, Exercise, Medication and No Alcohol.
You do not want to have Portal Hypertension turn into a major Secondary Condition to Cirrhosis: with Ascites, SBP, Varices Veins swelling and possibly bleeding, and the like.
If you are using salt you upset your Potassium/Sodium Balance and Retain Fluids, and in turn increase the likelihood of Chronic Ascites. I take Lasix (Furosemide) and Aldactone (Spironolactone) as diuretics . Aldactone specifically hold on to your Potassium so you don't lose it thru urination. And I drink Water from sun up to bedtime to let the kidneys flush as many toxins as it can. Believe it or not, Urine is the densest fluid in the body, chemically speaking.
A further complication of build-up Ascetic Fluid can cause SBP (Sudden Bacterial Pancretesis) were infection results from the different fluids and toxins building up in the abdomen. If you go in for Paracentesis they will first test you for this by drawing a small amount of the fluid and analyze it.
I only hope you seek and find a GOOD Interventional Radiologist (Preferably an IR Surgeon) and treat the Ascites as best as you can now, to avoid the future problems it can cause. I've never written so much before, but I wish someone had pointed out these interactions to me when I was going thru Chronic Ascites. The TIPS procedure worked for me. But I have to say, when I was going thru it I trusted my Doctor, because at the time I really didn't know what was going on. I hope this was helpful and I wish you the best.
Andy
Sorry to hear you're not feeling well. I have suffered basically every life threatening symptom of Portal Hypertension, and will try to share my experience and perhaps help you get an understanding of how far reaching this problem actually is. I have bled out twice to the point of having to be hit with the paddles and put on a mechanical life support ventilator. Both times it was acute portal hypertension causing (1. a 2cm x 2cm Mallory-Weis Tear and (2. 10 varices veins burst in my esophagus. Both times I went into Hypovolemic/Transient Shock do to sudden massive blood loss.
I suffered from Acites for months on end requiring me to go to the Hospital's Interventional Radiology twice a week for Paracentesis (removal of the abdominal fluid with a large needle guided by ultra sound). One time they drained 12 liters, the max the machine could take. All of this was a direct result of Portal Hypertension. The increased pressure squeezes fluid thru the membranes of your organs into your abdomen, and the backed up pressure transfers next to the veins surrounding your esophagus causing Swollen or Ruptured Varices.
I later had a TIPS (Transjugular Intrahepatic Portosystemic Shunt) placement procedure, bypassing a large amount of Portal Vein blood past the liver and Hepatic vein. This limits the amount of blood to the liver from the GI track, hence relieving the Portal Hypertension. This is a dangerous procedure with a pretty tough 90 day mortality rate taking prior bleeds into account. It is normally done to hold you over for transplant. And, unfortunately a side effect of the procedure is Hepatic Encephalopathy (Ammonia Toxicity).
With increased Portal Pressure fluid loss to the abdomen and an injured liver not properly synthesizing proteins and/or not cleaning toxins as it normally would, you experience all kinds of chemical imbalances affecting many systems.
It does not properly supply red blood cells with clotting factors (Thrombocytopenia) - In turn your Prothrobomin Time (Time it takes your blood to clot) increases, greatly affecting your INR number and MELD score. This "Thin Blood" and increased pressure causes nose bleeds, minor cuts that just keep bleeding and the red spots and spider veins on your skin. In a worse case when mixed with portal hypertension it can cause massive bleeding in the GI track which is extremely hard to control.
Your liver leaks out Bilirubin (a waste product) into the blood because it is not properly producing Albumin, greatly affecting your MELD score. This retards production of Creatinine (again upping you Meld score) in direct correlation to your Raised ALT Enzyme.
3. Your liver does not break down all of the Ammonia (your GI track creates during digestion) into Urea (A non-toxin waste the kidneys can pass) The Ammonia (a toxin) instead goes to your muscles to break down some. That's why it is SO important to get some type of exercise (No matter how small at first) so your muscles don't waste. Because whatever Ammonia is left in your blood stream passes the Blood/Brain barrier causing Hepatic Encephalopathy (Ammonia Toxicity) You may become forgetful, clumsy, display poor hand righting and so-forth. It can become very severe if not address. Lactulose (a strong Non-soluble Sugar base laxative) keeps your GI Track passing foods quickly before they build up too much ammonia.
4. A fast moving GI track combined with Decreased Absorption by the liver causes Hyper-Metabolism. That's why they recommend 6 small meals a day rich in Fruits, Veggies, Fiber, Carbs and Non-Meat Proteins. I still eat a meat entre at dinner time every day, I just watch how much and how often. I also take Xifaxan which is an antibiotic that complements the efforts of the lactulose very well. The combo works great to reduce my symptoms of Hepatic Encephalopathy.
Your Renal System relies on the liver to maintain proper metabolism. The most important being a proper balance of Sodium and Potassium. Most people have too much sodium and not enough potassium, greatly affecting your metabolism. I eat a NO SALT diet and take a potassium supplement (as prescribed). Chronic Low Potassium (Hypokalemia) causes Tachycardia (Irregular heart rate) as potassium regulates your heart beat rhythm . That may explain your heart problems.
Also, people suffering Cirrhosis can develop Kidney problems and many suffer Renal Failure requiring dialysis due to an imbalance their chemicals. I treat it with a strict diet of whole fresh foods, tons of fruits and veggies (Dark leaf is really good for this) and I seek foods that are naturally high in potassium and NO SALT. It has served me well and every time I have blood work done my MELD score decreases. I credit most of the improvement in my condition to DIET. In fact, I went from a Decompensating Liver to a Compensating Liver Function and dropped my MELD Score from 24.4 to 7. I am no longer on the Transplant list.
The only thing I don't understand is your cuff blood pressure. Usually if you have a problem with Portal Hypertension, the Portal Vein pressure is dramatically increased and, in turn, your cuff blood pressure is very low... like 100/65 or lower. You will normally have a high resting pulse as well... like 90 or greater.
The best recommendation I could make to you is to see an Interventional Radiologist (Usually their own Dept. in a large hospital). The will preform an Abdominal Ultra Sound which will definitely show any pockets of fluid. If large enough they will preform a Paracentesis Procedure (which I found to be no big deal) and drain the fluid.
If you have repeat and often Ascites requiring Paracentesis they may evaluate you for a TIPS procedure. During the evaluation they will do a Transjugular Hepatic Vein Wedge Pressure Test, which is a same day surgical deal. If the pressure is too great, along with other secondary conditions, and warrants correction they may recommend a TIPS procedure. But try to nip all this in the bud with proper Diet, Exercise, Medication and No Alcohol.
You do not want to have Portal Hypertension turn into a major Secondary Condition to Cirrhosis: with Ascites, SBP, Varices Veins swelling and possibly bleeding, and the like.
If you are using salt you upset your Potassium/Sodium Balance and Retain Fluids, and in turn increase the likelihood of Chronic Ascites. I take Lasix (Furosemide) and Aldactone (Spironolactone) as diuretics . Aldactone specifically hold on to your Potassium so you don't lose it thru urination. And I drink Water from sun up to bedtime to let the kidneys flush as many toxins as it can. Believe it or not, Urine is the densest fluid in the body, chemically speaking.
A further complication of build-up Ascetic Fluid can cause SBP (Sudden Bacterial Pancretesis) were infection results from the different fluids and toxins building up in the abdomen. If you go in for Paracentesis they will first test you for this by drawing a small amount of the fluid and analyze it.
I only hope you seek and find a GOOD Interventional Radiologist (Preferably an IR Surgeon) and treat the Ascites as best as you can now, to avoid the future problems it can cause. I've never written so much before, but I wish someone had pointed out these interactions to me when I was going thru Chronic Ascites. The TIPS procedure worked for me. But I have to say, when I was going thru it I trusted my Doctor, because at the time I really didn't know what was going on. I hope this was helpful and I wish you the best.
Andy
when i was at doctor one week ago, blood pressure was normal.
today, i forgot to check it. however, i have pain in my left chest from time to time and recently. i was in a cardiologist a few months ago, but ekg was okay. at time time, he told me that my heart is beating a little bit fast.
today, i forgot to check it. however, i have pain in my left chest from time to time and recently. i was in a cardiologist a few months ago, but ekg was okay. at time time, he told me that my heart is beating a little bit fast.
That sounds kinda weird. How is your blood pressure?
I was on atenenol 50mg and didn't realize it but I had swelling going on the entire time. I got heavier too which didn't help but at some point, I couldn't put on my wedding ring anymore. The day I started taking Linsipril that went away and I could put it on immediately.
So strangely, I did have swelling in my hands but went to my belly after switching meds. On the new medication, I did have the ringing of ears and pressure also which is why I asked about that.
I was on atenenol 50mg and didn't realize it but I had swelling going on the entire time. I got heavier too which didn't help but at some point, I couldn't put on my wedding ring anymore. The day I started taking Linsipril that went away and I could put it on immediately.
So strangely, I did have swelling in my hands but went to my belly after switching meds. On the new medication, I did have the ringing of ears and pressure also which is why I asked about that.
interestingly, i have bloating problems and ringing ears.
my bloating is simply air wind. I wonder whether the ringings ears are associated with the bloating. Maybe, bloating is causing pressure and in turn this may cause ringing ears or pressure in the ears.
My liver enzymes normalized (I had fatty liver also). One month ago
I did an ultrasound and yesterday I did an ultrasound with doppler and they were normal for liver, spleen, blood flows from liver, portal vein, splenic vein, etc. However, still I am not sure if I can exclude cirrhosis for myself.
Today, I woke up with my left hand upper limb swollen. I did not understand if this is related to liver or not. I went to my family doctor and he pressed on my hand and said there is pain just in a local region which means the tendons in that part are damaged and that is the cause of swelling. I am still suspicious about it...
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