Aa
Obamacare hatred
http://news.yahoo.com/irrational-hatred-obamacare-hard-fathom-050114495.html
I know a lot of republicans "hate" the program just because it is "Obama's plan" (that apparently was a republican plan before Obama "laid claim".
What I think a lot of people like this author don't get it, there are a lot of republicans that hate the program because of it being so poorly rolled out, but more importantly... because the information about the plan was so extremely vague. This rolls back to Pelosi's wonderful quote and the President's claim to "more transparency".
I know a lot of republicans "hate" the program just because it is "Obama's plan" (that apparently was a republican plan before Obama "laid claim".
What I think a lot of people like this author don't get it, there are a lot of republicans that hate the program because of it being so poorly rolled out, but more importantly... because the information about the plan was so extremely vague. This rolls back to Pelosi's wonderful quote and the President's claim to "more transparency".
It is your inability to look within your selves that created the feelings you have. I have no bad feelings. I only wish you the best going forward.
Mike
Mike
"I do appreciate your efforts to support a friend and smooth things over. I think if Mike was talking about himself in the thread from the beginning to spur thought for others to look within themselves, things would not have taken the turn that they did. It was his trying to speak about others with such assuredness (sic) that created bad feelings."
Again, very well said.... thank you
Again, very well said.... thank you
"I think it is important for folks who have their back up over Mike's comments to really try to take a look at what he was trying to say."
I'm very well aware of Mike was trying to say... He was trying to prove to me that by my use of the word arrogant in relation to President Obama, I'm a racist and that if I weren't a racist, I'd be saying Obama's look is "confident" vs arrogant. It really IS that simple.
"I mean, if we are truly honest with ourselves, can we not see that we are not always how we want to be?" Absolutely right - I may not always be the way I want to be, but I can't, by any stretch of the imagination equate that with being a racist. And no one has the right to try to impeach my (or anyone's) character on a public forum, by what THEY insist is my "subconscious", when we've never met, they don't know my culture, the people I grew up and what's the basis for who I am.
All over the simple use of the word arrogant vs confident. That's someone projecting their belief onto me.
"ar·ro·gant
ˈarəgənt/
adjective
adjective: arrogant
1.
having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.
"he's arrogant and opinionated"
synonyms: haughty, conceited, self-important, egotistic, full of oneself, superior;"
My description of Obama!!
"I also am a believer in self knowledge. But that doesn't really include a friend in a bad mood on the internet projecting onto ME. I have no problem digging deep and thinking about why I feel a certain way. And if I say it is because someone comes across as arrogant to me, and it is as simple as that---- who is Mikesimon to tell me HE knows the truth? That's just silly." Very well said
I, too, am done with this thread.
I'm very well aware of Mike was trying to say... He was trying to prove to me that by my use of the word arrogant in relation to President Obama, I'm a racist and that if I weren't a racist, I'd be saying Obama's look is "confident" vs arrogant. It really IS that simple.
"I mean, if we are truly honest with ourselves, can we not see that we are not always how we want to be?" Absolutely right - I may not always be the way I want to be, but I can't, by any stretch of the imagination equate that with being a racist. And no one has the right to try to impeach my (or anyone's) character on a public forum, by what THEY insist is my "subconscious", when we've never met, they don't know my culture, the people I grew up and what's the basis for who I am.
All over the simple use of the word arrogant vs confident. That's someone projecting their belief onto me.
"ar·ro·gant
ˈarəgənt/
adjective
adjective: arrogant
1.
having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.
"he's arrogant and opinionated"
synonyms: haughty, conceited, self-important, egotistic, full of oneself, superior;"
My description of Obama!!
"I also am a believer in self knowledge. But that doesn't really include a friend in a bad mood on the internet projecting onto ME. I have no problem digging deep and thinking about why I feel a certain way. And if I say it is because someone comes across as arrogant to me, and it is as simple as that---- who is Mikesimon to tell me HE knows the truth? That's just silly." Very well said
I, too, am done with this thread.
I do appreciate your efforts to support a friend and smooth things over. I think if Mike was talking about himself in the thread from the beginning to spur thought for others to look within themselves, things would not have taken the turn that they did. It was his trying to speak about others with such assuredness that created bad feelings.
I could have just not said a word and ignored it and perhaps that would have been better.
But wanted to acknowledge fully what you said and your point of view about the exchange.
I could have just not said a word and ignored it and perhaps that would have been better.
But wanted to acknowledge fully what you said and your point of view about the exchange.
"...Often it is earned through accomplishment. Even when it is annoying, it is often coming from a competent person. Sometimes it comes from a delusional state of being though or because all around you tell you that you are so awesome. Then it is really just sad..."
You said a mouthful with that paragraph.
Obama is the later, in your example. Delusional & sad.
You said a mouthful with that paragraph.
Obama is the later, in your example. Delusional & sad.
Wasn't he proving my point that he very well could be projecting?
Every person has internal biases and prejudices of some sort. Who could argue that? We all have past experiences, upbringing, subconscious thought that comes from 'somewhere' we couldn't tell you about,etc. that sticks with us. But that doesn't mean that someone on an internet forum can make a judgment call proclaiming they know the TRUTH about the internal workings of someone else. It's really unfair.. Especially the example given. The use of the word arrogant to describe him has no more to do with Obama's race as it does when I use the word arrogant to describe Mikesimon or my husband. Or when Mikesimon called me arrogant.
I don't have any problem with arrogance either. Often it is earned through accomplishment. Even when it is annoying, it is often coming from a competent person. Sometimes it comes from a delusional state of being though or because all around you tell you that you are so awesome. Then it is really just sad.
I also am a believer in self knowledge. But that doesn't really include a friend in a bad mood on the internet projecting onto ME. I have no problem digging deep and thinking about why I feel a certain way. And if I say it is because someone comes across as arrogant to me, and it is as simple as that---- who is Mikesimon to tell me HE knows the truth? That's just silly.
I'm really done posting on this. There are times I disagree with people here and it has no bearing on whether I like them or not. Hoping to just move on past this.
Every person has internal biases and prejudices of some sort. Who could argue that? We all have past experiences, upbringing, subconscious thought that comes from 'somewhere' we couldn't tell you about,etc. that sticks with us. But that doesn't mean that someone on an internet forum can make a judgment call proclaiming they know the TRUTH about the internal workings of someone else. It's really unfair.. Especially the example given. The use of the word arrogant to describe him has no more to do with Obama's race as it does when I use the word arrogant to describe Mikesimon or my husband. Or when Mikesimon called me arrogant.
I don't have any problem with arrogance either. Often it is earned through accomplishment. Even when it is annoying, it is often coming from a competent person. Sometimes it comes from a delusional state of being though or because all around you tell you that you are so awesome. Then it is really just sad.
I also am a believer in self knowledge. But that doesn't really include a friend in a bad mood on the internet projecting onto ME. I have no problem digging deep and thinking about why I feel a certain way. And if I say it is because someone comes across as arrogant to me, and it is as simple as that---- who is Mikesimon to tell me HE knows the truth? That's just silly.
I'm really done posting on this. There are times I disagree with people here and it has no bearing on whether I like them or not. Hoping to just move on past this.
From a conversation I had with someone reading this thread:
"I took this test about a year ago and thought, as a "good liberal" I would prove not to be racist. Well, I made myself be honest when answering the questions and in the end I found not that I am a racist but that my unconscious beliefs do not always meet my idealized standard of beliefs and behavior.
I think it is important for folks who have their back up over Mike's comments to really try to take a look at what he was trying to say.
I mean, if we are truly honest with ourselves, can we not see that we are not always how we want to be?
Is that not what we are about in this life? That is, are we not seeking to reach a way of being that is consistent with our moral aspirations? How can we do that without true self examination? How can we become better if we do not realize that we as individuals are flawed?"
https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html
Myself, personally? Got no problem with arrogance. More of a 'results' oriented kind of guy.
This is probably a defect of character on my part.
"I took this test about a year ago and thought, as a "good liberal" I would prove not to be racist. Well, I made myself be honest when answering the questions and in the end I found not that I am a racist but that my unconscious beliefs do not always meet my idealized standard of beliefs and behavior.
I think it is important for folks who have their back up over Mike's comments to really try to take a look at what he was trying to say.
I mean, if we are truly honest with ourselves, can we not see that we are not always how we want to be?
Is that not what we are about in this life? That is, are we not seeking to reach a way of being that is consistent with our moral aspirations? How can we do that without true self examination? How can we become better if we do not realize that we as individuals are flawed?"
https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html
Myself, personally? Got no problem with arrogance. More of a 'results' oriented kind of guy.
This is probably a defect of character on my part.
That's how it has to be because that is where they put themselves. If you are a republican and you don't like what is happening and you disagree with the President and or his cabinet and their decisions, you HAVE to be racist. There are no alternatives.
People who like the President find him confident. People who don't fine him arrogant. Way back when Obama hit that national campaign trail, I saw his confidence. I saw that he had this tremendous belief in himself and I thought that he though he could change the world.
Today, I see all of that as arrogance. 1 man thinks he can be elected and change the world? Pretty arrogant in my opinion.
When Bush was first elected, I saw a man that I thought looked confident. Again, I saw a guy who had a tremendous belief in himself. I felt that he was motivated and self assured. Towards the end? Not so much. I saw a guy who looked like he lacked any confidence. I could feel his uneasiness. I was looking at a guy who I once thought could potentially have all of the answers to a guy who looked like he couldn't even answer the phone.
Essentially, I felt the same about both men.... their race had nothing to do with it. In the end, I again feel the same about them. They started off confident and ended up being not so confident. The difference between the two is, the President seems to be forcing his confidence now where Bush didn't have the ability. To me, that is arrogance. And arrogance is what it is. Bush got his butt humbled and then handed to him. This same thing may happen to the President. He may realize that he isn't the total package and may have to eat a little crow.
When anyone (regardless of their political affiliation or aspirations) comes around saying that they are going to do this, going to accomplish that, and then don't? People are going to qualify that as arrogance.
Pertaining to the tests you guys are talking about. I don't remember the test that mike brought up but I did take the more recent test. As with SM and Barb, there were a few questions that my appropriate answer was not represented and I think that alone can sway a "test" one way or the other.
I think a test posted on a forum is not an accurate diagnostic tool. I also don't think anyone here is qualified to make any kind of a diagnosis regardless of how "smart" they are.
Today, I see all of that as arrogance. 1 man thinks he can be elected and change the world? Pretty arrogant in my opinion.
When Bush was first elected, I saw a man that I thought looked confident. Again, I saw a guy who had a tremendous belief in himself. I felt that he was motivated and self assured. Towards the end? Not so much. I saw a guy who looked like he lacked any confidence. I could feel his uneasiness. I was looking at a guy who I once thought could potentially have all of the answers to a guy who looked like he couldn't even answer the phone.
Essentially, I felt the same about both men.... their race had nothing to do with it. In the end, I again feel the same about them. They started off confident and ended up being not so confident. The difference between the two is, the President seems to be forcing his confidence now where Bush didn't have the ability. To me, that is arrogance. And arrogance is what it is. Bush got his butt humbled and then handed to him. This same thing may happen to the President. He may realize that he isn't the total package and may have to eat a little crow.
When anyone (regardless of their political affiliation or aspirations) comes around saying that they are going to do this, going to accomplish that, and then don't? People are going to qualify that as arrogance.
Pertaining to the tests you guys are talking about. I don't remember the test that mike brought up but I did take the more recent test. As with SM and Barb, there were a few questions that my appropriate answer was not represented and I think that alone can sway a "test" one way or the other.
I think a test posted on a forum is not an accurate diagnostic tool. I also don't think anyone here is qualified to make any kind of a diagnosis regardless of how "smart" they are.
Ergo: Obama is to Arrogant as LMNO is to Racist SOB.
Anyone that doesn't fully get on board with B.O. is, in the eyes of the common Dem, a racist.
Anyone that doesn't fully get on board with B.O. is, in the eyes of the common Dem, a racist.
I don't think I was the one who made the big deal about Obama being arrogant. I said I think he's arrogant (and SM agreed with me) and you took that all the way to my "preconceived" ideas and biases that you know absolutely nothing about and worse yet, you have the audacity to call me a liar when I try to tell you. That's what I find offensive.
I suppose I was just "making nice" with the gay friends I've had, as well? I really could have cared less, but I'm sure you won't believe that, either, so have it your own way.
Like SM, I'm finding it rather astounding that you feel free to attack my character and what "you see" to be my unconscious self, that you know nothing about, on a forum, such as this, over the simple fact that I find Obama to be arrogant.
You're free to post what you believe, you're not free to attack my (or anyone's) character, whether you believe it to be unconscious or not. Have a great day.
I suppose I was just "making nice" with the gay friends I've had, as well? I really could have cared less, but I'm sure you won't believe that, either, so have it your own way.
Like SM, I'm finding it rather astounding that you feel free to attack my character and what "you see" to be my unconscious self, that you know nothing about, on a forum, such as this, over the simple fact that I find Obama to be arrogant.
You're free to post what you believe, you're not free to attack my (or anyone's) character, whether you believe it to be unconscious or not. Have a great day.
Get over yourself.
Mike
Mike
Yes I can admit that. I'm really not that enthralled with the man.
I do not see him as arrogant to the point where it should be a major point about the man.
Maybe you're that rare person who carries no baggage and no preconceived ideas about anything. If someone were I would love it to be you Barb because I have always liked and respected you, I simply think it's unlikely. I'm maybe on a different level with all this. On those tests I showed a strong bias towards black people which surprised me. Then I tested regrading gays and the result was that I was biased strongly against gays. I was in San Fran in 1968 living in a gay apartment. It freaked me out and I left but I got acclimated to gay guys. Then I had gay friends when I lived in Coconut Grove. I thought for sure I'd do well on that test but I didn't. I thought long and hard about that and finally realized that the reason for my results was that I never really believed that gays were happy. Consciously it never dawned on me. I never ever thought about it but it did bias me in ways I would never have dreamed of. It's unconscious Barb.
That's all I have. I think that type of unconscious bias clouds so much of what people see when they think there are no filters at all. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm not mean . I'm always searching for the truth and some people don't like that at all.
I'm sorry if I have offended the members here. I can either not post or I can post what I believe to be true. I can't just get along for the sake of getting along. That's not worth my time Barb.
I do not see him as arrogant to the point where it should be a major point about the man.
Maybe you're that rare person who carries no baggage and no preconceived ideas about anything. If someone were I would love it to be you Barb because I have always liked and respected you, I simply think it's unlikely. I'm maybe on a different level with all this. On those tests I showed a strong bias towards black people which surprised me. Then I tested regrading gays and the result was that I was biased strongly against gays. I was in San Fran in 1968 living in a gay apartment. It freaked me out and I left but I got acclimated to gay guys. Then I had gay friends when I lived in Coconut Grove. I thought for sure I'd do well on that test but I didn't. I thought long and hard about that and finally realized that the reason for my results was that I never really believed that gays were happy. Consciously it never dawned on me. I never ever thought about it but it did bias me in ways I would never have dreamed of. It's unconscious Barb.
That's all I have. I think that type of unconscious bias clouds so much of what people see when they think there are no filters at all. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm not mean . I'm always searching for the truth and some people don't like that at all.
I'm sorry if I have offended the members here. I can either not post or I can post what I believe to be true. I can't just get along for the sake of getting along. That's not worth my time Barb.
It's a little scary that you think you can make judgment calls that someone's opinion about the president of the country they too live in is based on something other than what they tell you. Oh, I forgot. You are so smart, you even can see into my brain!
I think it is always inappropriate to argue with someone about their personal character and you have a special knack for trying to do that to people often. Especially based on something like a current events forum where the topic isn't me (or other people who post here). This would presume that we know each other really well and it is okay to take the liberty to basically speak for me or 'school' me as to why I feel the way I do. It astounds me that you don't see that as inappropriate.
I don't know anyone here well enough to be confident I know what motivates them.
This has been a rather disappointing discussion. so yes, good night.
I think it is always inappropriate to argue with someone about their personal character and you have a special knack for trying to do that to people often. Especially based on something like a current events forum where the topic isn't me (or other people who post here). This would presume that we know each other really well and it is okay to take the liberty to basically speak for me or 'school' me as to why I feel the way I do. It astounds me that you don't see that as inappropriate.
I don't know anyone here well enough to be confident I know what motivates them.
This has been a rather disappointing discussion. so yes, good night.
I didn't post my results to that test on the forum, but I did send them to you via PM, at the time or shortly after. Shame on me... apparently, you dug them back up.
"I don't think you're hateful or malevolent. I think you're a product of your culture and I don't believe you realize it. Now, isn't that arrogant of me to suggest such a thing?" No - that's not arrogant, but it is misguided, because you don't know my culture; you don't know my experiences and you don't really know anything about me - the person.
"A black person acting like an equal is disconcerting or maybe just so foreign that it strikes you as wrong so it must be arrogance that you're seeing." I'm accustomed to black people being my equal. It might surprise you that I've even eaten at their table or they at mine; we go to the same restaurants, we shop in the same stores, we use the same bathrooms; there's nothing unusual about this.
I wasn't raised to be prejudiced towards anyone... I was raised to believe that there's no one in this world better than me and by the same token, neither am I better than any other living being. Some of the people I've had the most respect and admiration for, during my younger years were black. I've had black friends that were a lot closer than many of the white so-called "friends" I've had...
I'm sorry, but based on my experiences, I find your suggestions extremely personal and offensive.
You think that test tells everything there is to know about how a person feels? I realize that you're far smarter than I am and you've done a lot more research on various subjects than I have.. but there's always a possibility that your "test" doesn't really reflect what people actually think..
Remember the "class" test that was posted not long ago? They didn't always have the exact answer we wanted and there was no way to insert what we wanted, so we had to take something "close"...
I stand by my original statement -- Obama is not someone I'd ever describe as "confident", while the black man who saved my husband from bleeding to death one day, when he accidentally cut himself? Totally confident in that skin, totally equal to anyone he came across. I'd entrust my life to him in heartbeat, but never to Obama.
"I simply believe that if an objective analysis was done regarding eye contact, head position etc that it would show clearly that Obama does not display the characteristics you ascribe to arrogance." You're making a lot of assumptions regarding what *I* see and think... Most of the photos I see of Obama, he's making eye contact with nothing, but his dream in the sky...
"I act like a champion of the black people and yet I realize that I have unconscious biases." Actually, in some ways you sound more prejudiced than you're accusing me of being...
"I know this is likely a fruitless endeavor. If it weren't we wouldn't be in the shape we're in. I'm probably a fool to think that I'll get through to you or anyone predisposed against the possibilities I raise. But unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, I'm an eternal optimist."
That's the height arrogance!! You're a very intelligent, respected person.. do you really believe that everyone who doesn't like Obama or agree with his policies is prejudiced? Can't you ever acknowledge that he's a man, like any other and he's not infallible? And that not everyone would agree with him, even if he were white?
"I don't think you're hateful or malevolent. I think you're a product of your culture and I don't believe you realize it. Now, isn't that arrogant of me to suggest such a thing?" No - that's not arrogant, but it is misguided, because you don't know my culture; you don't know my experiences and you don't really know anything about me - the person.
"A black person acting like an equal is disconcerting or maybe just so foreign that it strikes you as wrong so it must be arrogance that you're seeing." I'm accustomed to black people being my equal. It might surprise you that I've even eaten at their table or they at mine; we go to the same restaurants, we shop in the same stores, we use the same bathrooms; there's nothing unusual about this.
I wasn't raised to be prejudiced towards anyone... I was raised to believe that there's no one in this world better than me and by the same token, neither am I better than any other living being. Some of the people I've had the most respect and admiration for, during my younger years were black. I've had black friends that were a lot closer than many of the white so-called "friends" I've had...
I'm sorry, but based on my experiences, I find your suggestions extremely personal and offensive.
You think that test tells everything there is to know about how a person feels? I realize that you're far smarter than I am and you've done a lot more research on various subjects than I have.. but there's always a possibility that your "test" doesn't really reflect what people actually think..
Remember the "class" test that was posted not long ago? They didn't always have the exact answer we wanted and there was no way to insert what we wanted, so we had to take something "close"...
I stand by my original statement -- Obama is not someone I'd ever describe as "confident", while the black man who saved my husband from bleeding to death one day, when he accidentally cut himself? Totally confident in that skin, totally equal to anyone he came across. I'd entrust my life to him in heartbeat, but never to Obama.
"I simply believe that if an objective analysis was done regarding eye contact, head position etc that it would show clearly that Obama does not display the characteristics you ascribe to arrogance." You're making a lot of assumptions regarding what *I* see and think... Most of the photos I see of Obama, he's making eye contact with nothing, but his dream in the sky...
"I act like a champion of the black people and yet I realize that I have unconscious biases." Actually, in some ways you sound more prejudiced than you're accusing me of being...
"I know this is likely a fruitless endeavor. If it weren't we wouldn't be in the shape we're in. I'm probably a fool to think that I'll get through to you or anyone predisposed against the possibilities I raise. But unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, I'm an eternal optimist."
That's the height arrogance!! You're a very intelligent, respected person.. do you really believe that everyone who doesn't like Obama or agree with his policies is prejudiced? Can't you ever acknowledge that he's a man, like any other and he's not infallible? And that not everyone would agree with him, even if he were white?
Well, that's unfortunate.
I don't agree with you and that is being inappropriate.
I find that arrogant SM.
Back down?
Are you serious?
Good night specialmom
I don't agree with you and that is being inappropriate.
I find that arrogant SM.
Back down?
Are you serious?
Good night specialmom
I'm not being defensive as I think you have some serious issues that are showing. You refuse to back down when you are being incredibly inappropriate.
Your defensiveness is showing.
Are you so afraid to be known on a little forum like this?
Are you so afraid to be known on a little forum like this?
You amuse me that you think YOU are in a position to know the truth about me. I think you might want to take a long look in the mirror.
I could handle that. I can handle the truth. But, can you?
I wonder.
I wonder.
Only if you could handle me calling you arrogant. :>)
Again, we're really worlds apart.
But, I still like you. Is that allowed?
I'd love to be in a room with all of you.
But, I still like you. Is that allowed?
I'd love to be in a room with all of you.
I think Obama comes across as arrogant. I think that about various people of many different races. My husband can be a little arrogant from time to time. Even our own Mikesimon appears arrogant to me at times. What is the big deal? Is that such a huge insult or something?
What IS insulting is when someone thinks they have some kind of insight into others based on so little. That their own delusional thinking allows them to think they know someone so well, they can make some kind of call as to what really is going on inside of them. That they know them better than they know themselves.
So, if we are going there . . .
Again, from my experience, often when someone has a gut level response to something, it often can be because it strikes a cord within who they themselves are. Calling racism because someone would describe Obama as coming off as arrogant could very well be because of someone's own garbage deep down inside of themselves. Projection is dangerous and can be more revealing about ourselves than we are aware. But as it is painful to look at, a person denies that could ever be the case.
So, hey. In the end, we can all make deep comments about the inner workings of another. But, where does that get us? There's a really good chance we are wrong.
Is it such a stretch to think that I don't care for the job Obama's done? If someone doesn't care for Obama's politics or his style, it's due to racial bias? If Hilary Clinton were president, I may not have loved some of her policies either---- so then, deep down I'm anti woman, right?
I really do appreciate that everyone is different and their opinions on a subject are valid. That their thoughts are as worthy as mine and bring as much value to a conversation. I don't think I'm always right. I enjoy learning from others. This forum creates a scene in which people put forth thoughts for conversation--- at least that is how I see it. I don't think it is fair to psychoanalyze people who post in a way that belittles their opinion by chalking it up to racial bias.
What IS insulting is when someone thinks they have some kind of insight into others based on so little. That their own delusional thinking allows them to think they know someone so well, they can make some kind of call as to what really is going on inside of them. That they know them better than they know themselves.
So, if we are going there . . .
Again, from my experience, often when someone has a gut level response to something, it often can be because it strikes a cord within who they themselves are. Calling racism because someone would describe Obama as coming off as arrogant could very well be because of someone's own garbage deep down inside of themselves. Projection is dangerous and can be more revealing about ourselves than we are aware. But as it is painful to look at, a person denies that could ever be the case.
So, hey. In the end, we can all make deep comments about the inner workings of another. But, where does that get us? There's a really good chance we are wrong.
Is it such a stretch to think that I don't care for the job Obama's done? If someone doesn't care for Obama's politics or his style, it's due to racial bias? If Hilary Clinton were president, I may not have loved some of her policies either---- so then, deep down I'm anti woman, right?
I really do appreciate that everyone is different and their opinions on a subject are valid. That their thoughts are as worthy as mine and bring as much value to a conversation. I don't think I'm always right. I enjoy learning from others. This forum creates a scene in which people put forth thoughts for conversation--- at least that is how I see it. I don't think it is fair to psychoanalyze people who post in a way that belittles their opinion by chalking it up to racial bias.
Here is what I think Barb.
I think when you see Obama you see arrogance.
I don't think you're hateful or malevolent. I think you're a product of your culture and I don't believe you realize it. Now, isn't that arrogant of me to suggest such a thing? Probably, but if you read any scholarly articles about unconscious or implicit biases you'll see that that is exactly the mechanism for this type of bias. It just doesn't fit in your preconceived ideals. A black person acting like an equal is disconcerting or maybe just so foreign that it strikes you as wrong so it must be arrogance that you're seeing.
I Googled Obama and Bush images and I couldn't see any of what you're talking about. I don't think you're lying - to the contrary I think that you are being absolutely honest when you say Obama looks arrogant. That is what you see. I simply believe that if an objective analysis was done regarding eye contact, head position etc that it would show clearly that Obama does not display the characteristics you ascribe to arrogance.
The fact that you have black friends or have treated them kindly and perhaps generously has nothing at all to do with what I'm talking about. If you took that test you should know that already. I act like a champion of the black people and yet I realize that I have unconscious biases. If you don't recognize or at least acknowledge that possibility you can never improve yourself.
I know this is likely a fruitless endeavor. If it weren't we wouldn't be in the shape we're in. I'm probably a fool to think that I'll get through to you or anyone predisposed against the possibilities I raise. But unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, I'm an eternal optimist.
I think when you see Obama you see arrogance.
I don't think you're hateful or malevolent. I think you're a product of your culture and I don't believe you realize it. Now, isn't that arrogant of me to suggest such a thing? Probably, but if you read any scholarly articles about unconscious or implicit biases you'll see that that is exactly the mechanism for this type of bias. It just doesn't fit in your preconceived ideals. A black person acting like an equal is disconcerting or maybe just so foreign that it strikes you as wrong so it must be arrogance that you're seeing.
I Googled Obama and Bush images and I couldn't see any of what you're talking about. I don't think you're lying - to the contrary I think that you are being absolutely honest when you say Obama looks arrogant. That is what you see. I simply believe that if an objective analysis was done regarding eye contact, head position etc that it would show clearly that Obama does not display the characteristics you ascribe to arrogance.
The fact that you have black friends or have treated them kindly and perhaps generously has nothing at all to do with what I'm talking about. If you took that test you should know that already. I act like a champion of the black people and yet I realize that I have unconscious biases. If you don't recognize or at least acknowledge that possibility you can never improve yourself.
I know this is likely a fruitless endeavor. If it weren't we wouldn't be in the shape we're in. I'm probably a fool to think that I'll get through to you or anyone predisposed against the possibilities I raise. But unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, I'm an eternal optimist.
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