Aa
Managing depression without meds
I have had depression most of my adult life. I am 50 years old and have taken so many antidepressants throughout my life without any real happiness. It seems the meds work for awhile and then they wear off. I recently stopped using Vicodin after a 7 year affair. I have been in the substance abuse community for support related to detox. I presently take Wellbutrin XL 300 mg daily for depression and Savella 50 mg twice a day for fibromyalgia. I just am having a really hard time- constant crying, horrible anxiety and can't sleep. Obviously my detox from Vicodin is playing a part here but the depression has been forever. I guess what I am wondering has anyone used any OTC meds for mood? Also, is therapy helpful? I have been only a few times and didn't seem to benefit. I don't know what to do; I don't want to keep going through life like this. Any suggestions?
Hi and thanks for your comments. Yeah I think it's pretty cool now that I took that bottle back but man that was tough. I was craving so bad in the last month and could have kicked myself! I actually had a lot of support from the S/A community. One person in particular was literally on my case for getting the refill in the first place. You could tell he wanted to scream through the computer at me!! (HAHA!). We had our battles messaging but I knew he had my best interest at heart. I owe so much to that forum; they really were my lifeline. I love being able to give back ( what little I can; I am only 32 days). I just think that just knowing someone has been there and cares is all people need. This therapist I saw was great so I will see how it goes. Also, thanks for the diet idea because no I really hadn't thought about food and fibromyalgia. Makes sense though; I will check it out. It is all I can do just to make it through a work day. It's still pretty rough but am just taking it day by day and sometimes hour by hour. Thanks for caring :-)
Wow, I don't think I've ever heard of someone taking their fix back to the pharmacist and flagging themselves!!! What incredible resolve when you're feeling so down!! It's really one for the record books Nursey and you should be so proud of yourself. You will win over your withdrawal, given time. If you're able to try financially to find another therapist, it can be well worth the effort. I went through many, before I found one that I could count on to actually speak with me and give me advice, rather than just sit there, writing what I had to say. Please feel better. What nursegirl said about the mental part being the hardest to deal with in withdrawal is so true. I pray for you, that you will find peace and be able to work on your depression and fibromyalgia only. I'm sure that you have looked at diet and fibromyalgia, but I listened to Montel Williams the other day about how important nutrition has been in his fight with MS. Apparently his "juicing" 70% of kale , arugala and spinache has helped him immensely with his MS as it is a natural anti-inflammatory. He says that he wouldn't be able to walk on a daily basis if not his obsession with nutrition, so I thought I would share this. God Bless and Feel Better!!!
Heck I took a bottle of 90 Vicodin back to my pharmacist and told her everything and to cancel all refills and to "flag" me
Wow, how incredible! How brave!!! That's just super! WAY TO GO!!! You should be SO proud of yourself!
Best of luck with the therapist....I hope it goes well. Let us know!
Wow, how incredible! How brave!!! That's just super! WAY TO GO!!! You should be SO proud of yourself!
Best of luck with the therapist....I hope it goes well. Let us know!
Thanks! I am going to a therapist tomorrow that specializes in addiction and also deals with depression. I just hope we click. I have always had to take 2 antidepressants and I think maybe it was because I was so messed up on the Vicodin. So yeah I am ready to be totally honest with whoever from now on. Heck I took a bottle of 90 Vicodin back to my pharmacist and told her everything and to cancel all refills and to "flag" me. I cried so hard when I got home though! I just want to be happy. Yesterday was bad and it really scared me. I was driving this curvy road by the river, crying hysterically (dont know why) and wanted just to step on and not care what happened. I am not that kind of person!! Thanks for getting the conversation back to what it's supposed to be about.
I think your own statement here says it all:
At this point it's hard to determine if the severe depression I am having right now is "depression" or mental withdrawal depression from detoxing off Vicodin.
Absolutely! You're still WAY too early in the detox/recovery process to make any calls about how you're feeling emotionally. The physical part of w/d is bad, but it's over in a week or so. The mental part is FAR far harder. You have been filling those receptors with opiates, now your brain doesn't KNOW how to make it's OWN "feel good" chemicals. That takes time. That's not something that is going to get better in a week. It may take several months before you REALLY start noticing improvements.
My advice is to stay on an SSRI (or other antidepressant) throughout this whole process. It WILL help, it will just take a while before you see anything drastic. You definitely cannot assess any med during this time, because your brain is still readjusting to not having the opiates on board. Continue taking the med, and then reassess it in about 2 months.
I also think it would be very wise for you to be more forthcoming with your psych doc/therapist about your addiction. THEY would be the ones to really help you start figuring out why you were doing this...why the need to self medicate? Give that some thought...therapy for you would be so very helpful. Your psych needs to know you're just done with detox and starting a recovery plan. He/she may have some different recommendations, med wise. I just think being honest is the best approach in this situation.
Every day is another day you're fighting...and another day clean! You should be SO proud of yourself! Keep up the great work! We're here for you...keep us updated!
At this point it's hard to determine if the severe depression I am having right now is "depression" or mental withdrawal depression from detoxing off Vicodin.
Absolutely! You're still WAY too early in the detox/recovery process to make any calls about how you're feeling emotionally. The physical part of w/d is bad, but it's over in a week or so. The mental part is FAR far harder. You have been filling those receptors with opiates, now your brain doesn't KNOW how to make it's OWN "feel good" chemicals. That takes time. That's not something that is going to get better in a week. It may take several months before you REALLY start noticing improvements.
My advice is to stay on an SSRI (or other antidepressant) throughout this whole process. It WILL help, it will just take a while before you see anything drastic. You definitely cannot assess any med during this time, because your brain is still readjusting to not having the opiates on board. Continue taking the med, and then reassess it in about 2 months.
I also think it would be very wise for you to be more forthcoming with your psych doc/therapist about your addiction. THEY would be the ones to really help you start figuring out why you were doing this...why the need to self medicate? Give that some thought...therapy for you would be so very helpful. Your psych needs to know you're just done with detox and starting a recovery plan. He/she may have some different recommendations, med wise. I just think being honest is the best approach in this situation.
Every day is another day you're fighting...and another day clean! You should be SO proud of yourself! Keep up the great work! We're here for you...keep us updated!
I think 'attack' is a little much...
We're all grown ups on here, I'm sure we can all cope with some opinion sharing. Maddie is only sharing her personal experiences with depression in the hope it may be of some use to the poster. I don't see much wrong with that.
I agree, getting better does require us to take an active roll in working towards the happier us but sometimes we simply cannot take those steps without a little nudge in the form of meds.
As for the meds vs therapy argument, EVERYONE is different. Everyone responds to meds differently and everyone responds to therapy differently.
Nursey expressed an interest in therapy and that's great, it's all about trial and error, but some people find therepy very hard and aren't ready to open up.
Here in the UK therapists etc. are extremely hard to get unless you have been sectioned or are in some sort of rehab. The only other way is pay for them. I don't see how beneficial therapy would be to people who find it hard to open up, sitting for whole sessions barely talking whilst their money fritters away.
We all have opinions, embrace them - don't condemn them. None of the advice here has been dangerous or unhealthy to Nursey so I really don't see what's so wrong. No need for apologies, no need for hard feelings.
It seems these Communities are getting touchier by the day. Opinions will vary, we're all just going to have to face that.
We're all grown ups on here, I'm sure we can all cope with some opinion sharing. Maddie is only sharing her personal experiences with depression in the hope it may be of some use to the poster. I don't see much wrong with that.
I agree, getting better does require us to take an active roll in working towards the happier us but sometimes we simply cannot take those steps without a little nudge in the form of meds.
As for the meds vs therapy argument, EVERYONE is different. Everyone responds to meds differently and everyone responds to therapy differently.
Nursey expressed an interest in therapy and that's great, it's all about trial and error, but some people find therepy very hard and aren't ready to open up.
Here in the UK therapists etc. are extremely hard to get unless you have been sectioned or are in some sort of rehab. The only other way is pay for them. I don't see how beneficial therapy would be to people who find it hard to open up, sitting for whole sessions barely talking whilst their money fritters away.
We all have opinions, embrace them - don't condemn them. None of the advice here has been dangerous or unhealthy to Nursey so I really don't see what's so wrong. No need for apologies, no need for hard feelings.
It seems these Communities are getting touchier by the day. Opinions will vary, we're all just going to have to face that.
Brice, I also did not see maddie's post as an attack in any way. She's just sharing HER take on the matter. I can see BOTH sides easily. I'm a HUGE supporter of therapy, but I'm not naive enough to think it works for EVERYONE. Maddie has shared in the past here, that she has had a LOT of therapy over the past couple of decades, and in the end, decided it just wasn't for her, it didn't help her like it may help others. She found that meds, and other approaches were more effective, and that's cool. As long as she is dfoing SOMETHING for herself, I'm good with that.
We cannot judge other people's approaches. Everyone has to choose what works for them, in their own way. For example, I think meds and therapy is best..but a LOT of people are simply against taking meds. I learned that I have to respect that. We're not a "one size fits all" group, we're all different.
Also, I'm not trying to put words in maddie's mouth, but I THINK her point about the "causes" of depression was that not everyone has a deep seeded issue, buried secret, or past trauma that is causing their depression. I think that's exactly where she was going with this statement:
"You infer that everyone has a cause for depression and therapy will address that".
I say the same thing to people with new anxiety issues. Everyone is digging deep, searching, looking for SOME deeply buried psychological issue that is causing their anxiety. Sometimes, some people are just prone to it, just wired wrong. There isn't always an "issue" we have to discover and work through. For a lot of people, there is. I think that was her point, not that depression doesn't have SOME sort of cause...checmical, traumatic, otherwise, etc. Of course there is a CAUSE. I think she meant there isn't always something down deep we have to discover.
It's very hard to read "tone" into the written word online, so it's easy to jump to conclusions about other people's intentions. Maddie is very straightforward with her advice and thoughts. I think it's easy to mistake that as an "attack". Maddie has apologized and said she did not at all intend to make you feel attacked, and she certainly does not have a problem with you. I think this is a misunderstanding. That's totally the way I see it, anyway.
Let's not get too far off topic here, let's get back to helping the OP with her issues. Keep in mind that we're all different, we all have varying opinions, experiences, but our sole purpose for being here is the same. We all want to help other people. Let's do that while we're resepctful of other people's opinions.
I think you guys are all awesome, and you EACH add something unique to this forum. Let's move past this, and get back to business! Thanks!
We cannot judge other people's approaches. Everyone has to choose what works for them, in their own way. For example, I think meds and therapy is best..but a LOT of people are simply against taking meds. I learned that I have to respect that. We're not a "one size fits all" group, we're all different.
Also, I'm not trying to put words in maddie's mouth, but I THINK her point about the "causes" of depression was that not everyone has a deep seeded issue, buried secret, or past trauma that is causing their depression. I think that's exactly where she was going with this statement:
"You infer that everyone has a cause for depression and therapy will address that".
I say the same thing to people with new anxiety issues. Everyone is digging deep, searching, looking for SOME deeply buried psychological issue that is causing their anxiety. Sometimes, some people are just prone to it, just wired wrong. There isn't always an "issue" we have to discover and work through. For a lot of people, there is. I think that was her point, not that depression doesn't have SOME sort of cause...checmical, traumatic, otherwise, etc. Of course there is a CAUSE. I think she meant there isn't always something down deep we have to discover.
It's very hard to read "tone" into the written word online, so it's easy to jump to conclusions about other people's intentions. Maddie is very straightforward with her advice and thoughts. I think it's easy to mistake that as an "attack". Maddie has apologized and said she did not at all intend to make you feel attacked, and she certainly does not have a problem with you. I think this is a misunderstanding. That's totally the way I see it, anyway.
Let's not get too far off topic here, let's get back to helping the OP with her issues. Keep in mind that we're all different, we all have varying opinions, experiences, but our sole purpose for being here is the same. We all want to help other people. Let's do that while we're resepctful of other people's opinions.
I think you guys are all awesome, and you EACH add something unique to this forum. Let's move past this, and get back to business! Thanks!
SORRY, SORRY, SORRY. I really was not attacking you. No way. I would never do that. I never meant to say the wrong thing. Please forgive me.
I was not having issues with what you said. Honest. I am a good person. I think you write great messages.
If I said something to upset you I really do apologise. do not have any issues with you at all. Oh dear, I am really sorry. I have found help for myself believe me. Tried everything. I agree with you on so much. I do not disagree with you on anything.
FORGIVE ME PLEASE.
I was not having issues with what you said. Honest. I am a good person. I think you write great messages.
If I said something to upset you I really do apologise. do not have any issues with you at all. Oh dear, I am really sorry. I have found help for myself believe me. Tried everything. I agree with you on so much. I do not disagree with you on anything.
FORGIVE ME PLEASE.
Listen.... there is a cause for depression. Any numbers of causes, including yours. Outwardly there looks as if there is nothing wrong, but there is... and that is the cause.
Even if it were a chemical deficiency... you can't outwardly see that, but there is testing. If someone can be tested and find out what's wrong.... it can be addressed. For so many people, just having a name for whats wrong is therapy enough.
You also attacked me on therapy... that's fine. Therapy is going to cost something. Most everything costs something. I couldn't afford to go sit down with a psychologist and a psychiatrist every week, so I looked into other options. Turns out, even in very small places like where I live (300 people) there is affordable help out there and they allow one to pay on a sliding scale.
Is there something else you have an issue with me over?
The fact is, help is out there and YOU have to go find it. It will not come to you and help can come in any number of ways... but it doesn't come to you.
Even if it were a chemical deficiency... you can't outwardly see that, but there is testing. If someone can be tested and find out what's wrong.... it can be addressed. For so many people, just having a name for whats wrong is therapy enough.
You also attacked me on therapy... that's fine. Therapy is going to cost something. Most everything costs something. I couldn't afford to go sit down with a psychologist and a psychiatrist every week, so I looked into other options. Turns out, even in very small places like where I live (300 people) there is affordable help out there and they allow one to pay on a sliding scale.
Is there something else you have an issue with me over?
The fact is, help is out there and YOU have to go find it. It will not come to you and help can come in any number of ways... but it doesn't come to you.
Hey I am glad you can relate; it's miserable at times and I don't think a lot of people get it. It's hard to be a nurse sometimes too because you ate always giving and have to be so pleasant. I was just on vacation so it feels 10 times harder coming back and having to go back to work!! I frankly am burnt out on nursing but don't know what else to do for the same money :-(
San Diego is one of my favorite places; I love the weather. This Atlanta heat is unbearable; today was finally nice though. I didn't have any energy to do a darn thing though. I just want to be happy and feel good!!
San Diego is one of my favorite places; I love the weather. This Atlanta heat is unbearable; today was finally nice though. I didn't have any energy to do a darn thing though. I just want to be happy and feel good!!
As a nurse, fibro sufferer, and same age I feel compelled to respond. I can SURE relate to you!! I hope the support groups are helping re the opiates? I know 12 step groups have SAVED my life over & over. But lately... with depression sx, fibro pain, fatigue & can't get out the door!! BUT if I schedule time to meet with someone to go I am more likely.
I keep trying different vitamins to help w/both Fibro & depression. I am trying to remember to add Omega's daily as they are supposed to have benefits.
Thank GOD for my dog... who forces me to get out @least 3x a day whether I want to or not...
Re Therapy YES YES YES it does help!! I would be going regularly now IF I had any health insurance>> Find someone you like & stick with it. EVERY Little change we make helps!!
DOES Anyone know of any "Private" groups on depression... or Chat rooms? I'd prefer.
Thanks. MJ-San Diego Girl
I keep trying different vitamins to help w/both Fibro & depression. I am trying to remember to add Omega's daily as they are supposed to have benefits.
Thank GOD for my dog... who forces me to get out @least 3x a day whether I want to or not...
Re Therapy YES YES YES it does help!! I would be going regularly now IF I had any health insurance>> Find someone you like & stick with it. EVERY Little change we make helps!!
DOES Anyone know of any "Private" groups on depression... or Chat rooms? I'd prefer.
Thanks. MJ-San Diego Girl
Thanks for everyone's input. I believe in my case it is simply clinical depression, not situational. My dx is MDD-recurrent. I know I need medication as my brain doesn't have the right balance of neurotransmitters. I have not done well on SSRI's. Effexor XR has been a great help with Wellbutrin. However, the Effexor just caused way too many side effects for me. I am not adverse to taking meds, well kind of. It just seems they "wear off". It's hard to explain. At this point it's hard to determine if the severe depression I am having right now is "depression" or mental withdrawal depression from detoxing off Vicodin. From what I have read opiates interfere with the efficacy of antidepressants. So have I really given them a chance? I think I did in the past but then sometimes yeah I got sick of taking meds and tapered off. I just don't know how long before the other "happy chemicals" will start working and the opiate receptors will die down. I probably am not making any sense. I do believe in therapy; in addition to depression I need to figure out why I used Vicodin to feel good and then just normal. It's hard to know what to start with. I have never been honest about the Vicodin abuse to my Psych NP or a therapist in the past; therefore, how could either one help?! Has anyone ever used any herbal meds for depression and/or anxiety without any presciption ones? I have triex all the OTC for sleep and it has not worked Anyway thanks for listening and responding!! :-)
Depression can be caused by prolonged stress even, thats what my psychiatrist told me when I asked him one time. It can also be a chemical imbalance of the the brain, and in that case is when meds are definitely needed. And like maddie sayed, it just happens!
Are meds not working for you or you just dont want to have to rely on them anymore? I feel the same, I hate having to take meds to feel normal! But its important to find treatment that works for you, and it definitely can be difficult finding a good therapist ive had the problem myself!
Keep giving therapy a try, get yourself in a better place! GOOD luck! Take care!
Are meds not working for you or you just dont want to have to rely on them anymore? I feel the same, I hate having to take meds to feel normal! But its important to find treatment that works for you, and it definitely can be difficult finding a good therapist ive had the problem myself!
Keep giving therapy a try, get yourself in a better place! GOOD luck! Take care!
You infer that everyone has a cause for depression and therapy will address that. But, myself has no reason for depression. It just is. Therapy in UKdoes not exist as such. I have lots of counselling, which is probably the equavalent. Got nowhere, and had some stupid ideas put to me.
Probably if people here need what you call "therapy" that would have to pay an amazing amount for it.
People like me have what is called endogenous depression - ie there is no obvious reason for it. Then there is reactive depression which occurs because of something that has happened in a persons life like death, a relationship breakup, loss of job, accident etc. So really people like me with the endogenous type of depression have no root cause to address.
Therapy does not work for everyone.
Probably if people here need what you call "therapy" that would have to pay an amazing amount for it.
People like me have what is called endogenous depression - ie there is no obvious reason for it. Then there is reactive depression which occurs because of something that has happened in a persons life like death, a relationship breakup, loss of job, accident etc. So really people like me with the endogenous type of depression have no root cause to address.
Therapy does not work for everyone.
I think therapy is critical! Medicine alone is at best, a band aide. Medicine does not address the root cause of the depression, but will alleviate the anxiety from the depression for a while. Getting to the cause of the depression and addressing that is of the most importance.
Think about it this way. You've got a splinter in the palm of your hand and it is painful. It continues to cause you pain, but you keep putting hydrogen peroxide on it and covering it with a band aide. As time goes by, it continues to hurt.... one day, you grab a needle and remove the splinter. The next day, the pain is lesser.... the following day, lesser again.
You have to get to what is causing the pain....
Try therapy. It's worth it.
Think about it this way. You've got a splinter in the palm of your hand and it is painful. It continues to cause you pain, but you keep putting hydrogen peroxide on it and covering it with a band aide. As time goes by, it continues to hurt.... one day, you grab a needle and remove the splinter. The next day, the pain is lesser.... the following day, lesser again.
You have to get to what is causing the pain....
Try therapy. It's worth it.
Hi, How are you doing? Are you managing OK? My depression has popped up whenever if felt like it for no reason. Some of us have this type of depression. Others are depressed because things that have happened to them.
Do you think you will be able to cope without medication? I've tried quite a few times in the 20+ years I have had depression, but the darn thing always comes back. I'm still fighting, but cannot cope without anti-depressants.
Keep in touch and let us know how you are getting on please.
Do you think you will be able to cope without medication? I've tried quite a few times in the 20+ years I have had depression, but the darn thing always comes back. I'm still fighting, but cannot cope without anti-depressants.
Keep in touch and let us know how you are getting on please.
You nailed it hon! Give that therapy another try, and as hard as it is....try to do some exercise. I know that's hard when you still have no energy, but your sleep is actually pretty good for this stage! You're still in the early stages, you have to give this some time. I know that is hard to do when you feel so lousy. Your brain chemicals are still trying to readjust!
Hang in there, you'll get there! Congrats on your 22 days! :0)
Hang in there, you'll get there! Congrats on your 22 days! :0)
Yeah that exercise thing is something I need to really do but I just haven't found the energy. I have good intentions but when I come home from work I can barely function. It has only been 22 days off Vicodin and sleep is 3-4 hours max. My mind just wanders and won't stop; it drives me crazy. I guess I need to give therapy another try. It's difficult to find the right therapist to establish a rapport. Yeah there are a lot of issues but nothing horrible. It's just frustrating to be so darned depressed for no reason. Thanks for responding!!
Hello and welcome!
How long have you been off the Vicodin? The emotional fall-out post opiate w/d can be pretty significant, and can last a good while. There are a few things you can do to help things along. One, exercise. Even if it is just some brisk walking every day...that will get those endorphins flowing, that will really help. Make sure, if your sleep has started to return, that you're getting adequate sleep every night. Therapy? YES! Give it a shot! It can be VERY helpful...you have a lot of emotions to work through, I'm sure!
Most likely, when the opiate part of this feeling is done, the Wellbutrin will start to work a bit better. You have to remember....those "happy" chemicals were strictly from opiates for 7 years. That kind of thing takes time.
Certainly, you can talk with your doc, see if he has any siggestions, tyo possibly recommend an adjunct med, just while you're in the earlier stages of recovery.
Very best of luck to you, and congrats on your committment to get clean and stay clean, hope you enjoy a flawless recovery! Take care!
How long have you been off the Vicodin? The emotional fall-out post opiate w/d can be pretty significant, and can last a good while. There are a few things you can do to help things along. One, exercise. Even if it is just some brisk walking every day...that will get those endorphins flowing, that will really help. Make sure, if your sleep has started to return, that you're getting adequate sleep every night. Therapy? YES! Give it a shot! It can be VERY helpful...you have a lot of emotions to work through, I'm sure!
Most likely, when the opiate part of this feeling is done, the Wellbutrin will start to work a bit better. You have to remember....those "happy" chemicals were strictly from opiates for 7 years. That kind of thing takes time.
Certainly, you can talk with your doc, see if he has any siggestions, tyo possibly recommend an adjunct med, just while you're in the earlier stages of recovery.
Very best of luck to you, and congrats on your committment to get clean and stay clean, hope you enjoy a flawless recovery! Take care!
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