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4th stage kidney disease?

Hello everyone, My 9 year old Yorkie Memae was diagnosed with kidney disease 3 years ago this month.  She has been on special RX diet since.  At that time the Dr. told me she could live for another 6 months to 2 1/2 yrs.  This past week she stopped eating her rx dog food, drinks water and urinates normally but is very sleepy/lathargic but still loves walks and meeting her dog friends.  My questions are many but could someone tell me when we speak of suffering what exactly how are they suffering....she sleeps so much, will only eat tiny amounts of found off my finger but I'm not sure what to be looking for as far as her being in pain...she is depressed and tired except when we go for our walks...she is then almost her happy excited self....Please advise me if you know what I should be looking for.  She has vomited only twice since this turned for the worse 6 days ago.  Thank you all so much! Marilyn A. Roche  ***@****
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Avatar universal
My jack russall is exactly the same she is 16,she eats morsals of food and sleeps all the time but enjoys her walks,Lou Lou also has dementia and spends time staring alot,I am broken hearted I love her so much
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1916673 tn?1420233270
My article below (if MedHelp allow the link) explains this in much more detail:

http://www.infobarrel.com/Changing_Diet_During_Canine_Kidney_Disease

Tony
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1916673 tn?1420233270
Hi. Thank you for your input. I slightly disagree with you about protein. But I do agree with you that phosphorus is a real problem and needs careful restriction.

Protein is a very complex element in canine kidney disease. So much depends on the nature of the protein (high or low quality) and the stage of the kidney disease. Therefore, giving protein (in the form of meat and poultry) is always necessary, but the blood levels are an important indicator of how much to give. This is why diet changes are not a one-off thing at the start of kidney failure diagnosis, but a continuous process throughout the course of the illness.

Tony
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1916673 tn?1420233270
Please join our CHRONIC KIDNEY FAILURE IN DOGS user group. Lots of support, information and advice there for you.

Tony
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Avatar universal
I am going through this right now. My Golden is at the vet now getting fluids pumped but to no avail. Kidneys functioning at 10 to 15 percent. Going to bring this sweet baby home tomorrow. He is eight. No outward symptoms. Labs way out of whack. Hope it is peaceful for him. Tears just won't stop flowing.
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1916673 tn?1420233270
Hi. Just wanted to respond to your comment about Olive's "abnormal kidney function", which the vet told you. Have you asked the vet what he/she means by "abnormal kidney function"? Presumably, they saw something in a blood test, maybe?

I administrate the Chronic Kidney Failure in Dogs User Group, so if you feel you would like more support, information and advice ... please consider joining the Group here on MedHelp.

Also, just so you know, greyhounds are one of a very few breeds that actually have (usually) a slightly raised creatinine level in the blood, which is NORMAL for them. This is due to their extreme muscle mass. Not all vets are aware of this fact, so if it was a raised creatinine level that the vet was referring to, it would be useful to inform them about greyhounds having this unusual blood level.

Tony
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Avatar universal
I was reading in this forum  because while having a tooth extracted, the vet said Olive, my 13 yr old Italian Greyhound had abnormal kidney function and needed an an IV before anesthesia  because  of this. That's all I was told, she seems to be fine. Eats like a pig everyday, sleeps a lot but she seems the normal since I brought her home  4 yrs ago. What prompted me to respond, was that  6 years ago I was in the situation of euthanasia, when Ellier, my most precious Dalmatian, 14 years old was suffering after some sort of stroke.... I was Just BLIND with grief, I COULDN'T FUNCTION, FELT SUCH GUILT, it crippled me. I laid with my beautiful Ellier for over two weeks, and she would eat ravenously once in awhile when she felt I think,"she just Absolutely Had To!
You said that your darling will "Tell You" when it's time.... I swear that EL lifted her head and she looked into my heart and she Told Me To.
I thought that after 6 yes that I had finally stopped crying at just a tiny thought of her, thought I was ready to smile when she came to mind, which is daily. But when I read that - I think I Lost it worse than I ever have and it brought my precious little Olive running with so much love and caring in her tiny little heart, just running to my rescue... I feel like I needed those tears, maybe some guilt had built up and it needed to be washed away. Thank You and its so hard, but remember, guilt is part of that end process, The "eup...",and your right - They Will let you know when it's time, don't let that end part add such unnecessary heartbreak to what should almost be a "celebration of The Most Incredible Beautiful Relationship of Total Love" that you were so very lucky! To have been a Part Of!
Because, IT WAS!
Wasn't  it Amazing? :)
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Avatar universal
My heart is breaking as I read these posts. I have roughly 4 hours left with my precious girl Raven, and your post helped remind me of why we've mad the decision to end her suffering at 5 pm tonight. But it's still KILLING ME! This all happened so fast! I swear a month or so ago, she was fine! Chasing balls in the backyard, barking at random nothings, wanting her favorite treats. But she slowly stopped eating as much, and started losing weight. I took her to the vet when we realized the weight loss was not a minor issue, and her breath had started smelling really foul when she would lick herself - which was often. She has always been lean for a lab-mix and weighed 51-53 pounds, but when she got on the scale, she only weighed 36.8!!!  The vet suspected kidney disease and blood work confirmed it. BUN of 87, CREA of 5.0, Phosphorus of 13.8, and losing protein in the urine. The hardest part is that I know there is so much more we could TRY to do for her. But we don't have the money. And she won't eat. We immediately started her on SQ fluids every evening and started introducing k/d canned Rx food. The first 2 days, she ate almost double what she had been, which still only made it a little over a cup and a half. The 3rd day, she threw up OVER & OVER and hasn't wanted to touch ANY dog food or most of her usual favorites since. At that point we started anti-nausea and appetite stimulant pills.  She ate a few bites of sweet potato, then she wouldn't want it anymore. She ate a couple of small bites of carrots and asparagus, then she was done with that. I started doing research and chatted on FB with a childhood friend back home who is a vet, and learned about Epakitin and Azodyl. My vet knows NOTHING about them. I wish we had the money to change vets and try more options. I wish we had caught it earlier.  I wish I had more time with Raven. The fact is, she lays around curled up in a ball 90% of the time, only perking up and wagging her tail when someone comes to visit, or when we go to the park. But she won't even drink broth - only water a couple of times a day. I just don't know what to do!!!! My daughter just came over to see her and go with us to the appointment, and Raven perks up and acts like she's ALMOST normal. If we cancel the appointment, what if she starts getting worse and it's Thanksgiving? I don't want her to suffer!  She lies around trembling and sighing. I know she's not happy, but she's still in there. If only I knew that trying something would work. I just don't want to say goodbye to early. Hell, I don't want to say goodbye at all. I will miss her SO MUCH!  But even if she lasts another week, that won't change. Isn't it kinder to let her go to sleep peacefully before the suffering becomes unbearable? How do you deal with this mental anguish?!?!
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Avatar universal
I did let him have people food and he enjoyed a whole pepperoni very enthusiastically a day before he had some kind of seizure or attack and died into arms without any apparent suffering. I am very grateful he went so quickly compared to many
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Avatar universal
well please keep letting him have people food! Let him have what ever he wants.  Love him and just spend quality time with him as much as possible.
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Avatar universal
I adopted My little toy Pomeranian, TeddyBear about 4 or 5 years ago and at the time I adopted him I was told he had an enlarged heart and poor kidney function. He never ever acted lethargic or had any symptoms Except maybe that he always did need to drink more water than my other dogs. Other than the water though he really didn't have any other symptoms for the entire time 4 or 5 years I've had him until RECENTLY. A few weeks ago he started to get picky about what flavour of the raw diet we feed him he would eat. Over the past few weeks he has gotten so picky that he would only eat the raw beef but NOW suddenly he won't even eat THAT and 2 days ago he had 7 big seizures that lasted 2 minutes! He will eat people food NO PROBLEM, BY THE WAY. He hasn't had any more seizures in 3 days now and although he won't eat dog food he is VERY interested in our people food still so I seriously am confused because other than the sudden seizures that came and went and other than the super finicky appetite, there are no other new symptoms to indicate end stage CRF.  Is it possible that he is in end stage without any pain or vomiting or diarrhea or constipation etc??? He is very lethargic  but if I force KD into him by diluting it with water and using a syringe or if I let him eat people food, then he has energy again and acts normal and even barks and walks around. I don't know what is going on or what to do. We went out and bought every brand of raw dog food we could find and we bought 7 different brands and flavours of wet dog food including the KD AND MEDICAL. And he won't eat any of them HOWEVER he is extremely interested in our people food! He will eat lots of people food if we let him.
Any comments or ideas or advice?
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766573 tn?1365166466
She actually might be extremely uncomfortable so I encourage you to take your dog to the vet.

She may not act as miserable as she feels.

My dog was panting and had a glossy healthy coat when she was in stage 4 renal failure. She was not eating or drinking. It all happened fast in the last week of her life (I mean we always knew she had kidney disease and managed it well) but toward the end I was ashamed and embarrassed when the second opinion vet must have realized I needed a jolt as he came out and said, "Your dog feels like crap."

Ask yourself if your dog is even enjoying being a dog anymore before.
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Avatar universal
Hi even my dog is suffering from kidney problem from last 1yr but now she has started vomiting a lot and eating very less and most of the time she is sleepy really scared now. Hope she is not in pain
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Avatar universal
I just lost my Bitsy. I decided not to take her to the vet when she started breathing heavily. She had been diagnosed with kidney failure about 2 years ago. I held her in my arms until about 5 minutes before she took her last few breaths. She knew she was about to die and got out of my arms and laid at the foot of my bed. This has been so very hard for me. She was the love of my life. I had her for 10 years plus and I can't stop crying. I don't know if the vet could do anything for her at this stage but I was not going to take her there so they could put her in a cage and let her die alone and scared. I will always wonder if I did the right thing.
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Avatar universal
Monday my Koko my beagle 8 years old woke me up at 3am.  I open the door so he can go pee.  He just didn't want to come in.  I left him there for a little while and came back for him.  Little did I know we had so little time together.  He went into my room I help him lie on his fluffy pillow and started making him something to eat because he hardly ate in the weekend.  Mind you he had a very long long walk which was his highlight of the day for him with his brother Baieley. When I went to see him I saw that he couldn't walk his back legs wouldn't work.  He went in to the family room and started crying I try to feed him and give him water with a dropper.   I took him to the vet there he got worse his tongue was to the side he would look at me on the way to the vet but then in the vet office you could tell it in his eyes. The last moments with him as he put his head on my shoulders it was like saying good bye. I finally go in with the vet he tells me he is in shock they had said he had problems with his kidney is BUN was high this happen in matter of 3 weeks.  I never ever would of imagine loosing him I had to decide to put him to sleep as the Vet told me that he was suffering.  My quilt is so GREAT I just cry and cry and also because I miss him and his brother is getting depress also.  This  hurts so bad I am so so sad. going home I have two of everything for eight years it was like having twins.  This little fellow was the happiest playful beagle their was. In a way I was happy I took him for that long walk which he wanted, but i think did it trigger it.  I'm so confused but really feeling Guilty and sad. Will remember him.  I should of fed him anything he wanted if I had know this.  he went hungry.  Does this hurt go away? :(
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Avatar universal
Hi , I just read your experience with your bearded collie, my beardie Harris would be two in June this year he has been diagnosed with kidney disease he has been on fluids for 3 days but his values have not come down. He had a scan and they said his kidneys were very small. I got him home yesterday he is not keen to eat, I shall try and get the food you recommended today he has the food for his kidneys but not interested. I am a member of the friendly beardie club online this has been a great help for me, perhaps you know of this site already.
kind regards June.
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Avatar universal
Oh yeah, I asked vet yesterday about when, and if my Wilson gets nausea (as this is typical of late stage kidney disease) what to do. It's common to give Pepcid. My approx 10 lb can take 5 mg 2x day. I hope he doesn't suffer this symptom. Thought you might want to know. It might help the nausea. Possibly metabolized in kidneys tho (?unsure) so if your dog will get better without it it might be harder on his kidneys (?)   You should ask.
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Avatar universal
Sorry about your Buddy. Funny that my husband and toddler often call my Wilson buddy because that's what he is too. A little friend.

He is laying beside me now resting. It's just so hard to believe he is so sick. He has had no vomiting, just poor appetite and his elderly normal sleepiness mostly.

I cry too. A LOT!
It doesn't change things. My husband often crys too. Grateful for the compassion.

I hope your Buddy improves. Were his lab results poor? Did the IV help? I hope this is a bump in buddy's road and he gets better. I know Wilson won't.

We are to go on vacation in a few weeks. If he makes it that long, the vet said she will check his labs again and try to predict if he will make it til we return. If they are bad, we will have to let him go.

I guess I'll try to go back to sleep now as then I won't be so sad. I awoke having a dream about a child holding him and he was loving it.

Hugs to you.
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Avatar universal
wow, i  am in the exact same boat as you.  and it is comforting to know others love their family member just as much as i do.  Buddy was diagnosed a week ago and was immediately hospitalized for 4 days.  It was costly and now have to ask the cost of everything before we just say 'yes'. I dont regret any of it tho.  Buddy is only 3 yrs old.  He was rescued when he was 18 m old from someone that had him tied to a tree in their backyard all yr long in all weather conditions. He came to me scrawny, dirty, smelly and full of heartworms. I loved him from the moment i saw him. And took him to the vet immediately. the vet started a pulse heartworm treatment for him and he's been fine until about 2 weeks ago when he began being sluggish and tired. that's when i noticed he wasn't eating. He is my buddy. Buddy is my heart. yes i have children too but Buddy......I've had dogs all my life and none compare to him.  I know those who have found this site know exactly what i am talking about.  Buddy is one of my children.  my heart is breaking as each moment passes.  Our vet has discussed to my husband and I treatments from diet change to sub Q fluids to referral to cancer centers for pets as well as ... the end.  Buddy currently recieves antiobiotics 2x daily as well as sub Q fluids.  He is also on a special k/d prescription dog food. my husband thinks this is just a bump in the road for him and he will pull thru. well, tonight he vomited for the first time.  i cried my eyes out as i was cleaning it up.  i would love to know the cause of this, the reason.  The vet is still unsure if it was the heartworms, if it was something he ate, if he has a genitic disorder or what.  we know nothing.  after a week of trying to get him into the cancer center we finally get a call back. his appt is in another week.  i am at a loss for words.  Lord I need a miracle, please.
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Avatar universal
My precious poodle, Wilson, like his namesake in Castawayhasgiven me a companion, joy, listener, friend, and sense of sanity. He same recover from cancer, poor relationship, loneliness, and eventually love and a fairy tale ending. His poor labs before dental cleaning caught me off guard and they worsened rapidly ever since, even with special diet. He won't hardly eat or drink now. So sad.

He seems content, yet tired. He shows us he is happy and seems to save his energy for an occasional play in the evening when we are all present for the joy.

Vet is a friend and says we have weeks at most.

I realize this is an old thread but it just felt right...

I'm so sad

Thanks for understanding and "listening"
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1832268 tn?1326816010
Please accept my heartfelt sympathy. I do know how much you miss him.
You are right when you say that there will never be another Ernie. It is truly amazing how each pet has it's own unique personality. There are so many people in this world who simply cannot see that. It is so wonderful that you do. Ernie was as much an individual as you or I. You were both so blessed to have each other in your life. No, there never will be another Ernie, and you were the lucky person he shared his life with. No one could have loved him more than you.
It was a blessing that he was able to live his life in the company of people who love him so much.

I know only too well how difficult it is to get past the last few days. Like you, I keep replaying the last few hours in my mind. As I mentioned before, it has been a year since TwoBits was put to rest, Sept. 12th to be exact. It has been so difficult for me. Yes, things do get easier, but it will take awhile. In the meantime, Please feel free to express yourself here.
I understand your loss.

God Bless Ernie's Beautiful Spirit and Soul...he is much loved.
My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Connie

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Avatar universal
Thank you so much for your kind words. It is nice to hear from people that understand as there are so many out there that don't. Ernie was my one-in-a-million. I have two cats that I love but it isn't the same as my relationship with Ernie. I expect one day we will rescue another dog and I will love that dog too, but there will never be another Ernie. I miss him so much. Watching him pass away was the hardest thing I ever had to do and I wish I could stop replaying it in my mind but I don't regret being there and would have never forgave myself if I wasn't there with him. Thankfully we have a very kind vet that came to the house so Ernie could pass in his own home. Again, thanks for being there for a stranger in need. God Bless you too.
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1832268 tn?1326816010
Hi Ernies Mom,
I am so saddened to read about Ernie.
It has been a year since I put my TwoBits to rest, I still grieve her loss more than words can express.  I know how difficult this decision is for you.
Only you can decide what is best for Ernie, you know him better than anyone.

I can tell you that when our dogs are gone, we all wish we would have been able to spend more time with them, play with them more, and give them more hugs and kisses than we did.  But, life just does not allow us to devote every spare moment to our dogs...( I sure wish it did )
We just have to do the best we can. Our dogs know we are just human, and they forgive us for it.
I am sure Ernie would not have traded the life you gave him for anything in the world.

My thoughts and prayers are with you and Ernie.
God Bless you both.
Connie
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Avatar universal
Today I have to lay by sweet Ernie to rest. I am beyond heartbroken and don't know how I will survive this. He has been a huge part of my life for over 14 years when I rescued him from the pound. I am overcome by severe sadness and guilt. He started becoming very picky about his food a few years ago so we started switching brands. After a while we had to switch to wet food. Then we had to keep switching brands in that. We has all sorts of tests done and the vets said his tests showed all was well. I eventually switched vets and the new vet said it sounded like kidney disease because when dogs feel sick after eating then they don't want to eat that food. However, the urine test wasn't conclusive. We started feeding him human food and were having to keep switching that up too. We stared him on some meds and they seemed to help a lot at first but then stopped working. He hasn't eaten for a week and is extremely weak. He already had what seemed to be arthritis so the lack of food is making it so hard for him to get up and down. He still insists on going outside to do his business though. He is such a good dog. I just wanted to write to someone who seemed kind and understanding and ask how I get over the guilt of all the times I was too busy or stressed from work to play with him the way he wanted. Everyone tells me I was very good to him and my husband would always say I showed the dog more attention than I showed him but I still feel like I should have done more. I am just sitting here beside him giving him love and trying to keep my mind out of the black hole it wants to go and saw your posts on this site. Thank you for letting me talk.
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