how to potty train a stupid dog

[MommyPaws]

i know that the dog is not stupid, that its me whos doing something wrong, but i'm just sick of cleaning after her.. its a black lab 13 months old and she never learned to  go outside to toilet... i got her when she was 2 months, i was going outside with her on a leash every two hours, and she did her business but she still went inside too whenever she wanted..
i tried using the crate when she was about 3-4 months, for about 2 months..but..she didn't care, she went to toilet in her crate too, whenever she wanted..so.. i'd rather clean her sh*t and pee of the floor than have her dirty all over in it inside the crate.. she can hold it very well, she just doesn't want to :/

i got sick of cleaning after her, and i kicked her outside, she stayed outside for few months, i didn't want her inside, i was sick of cleaning up after her every morning, and i have a baby too, who was starting to crawl and walk, i didn't want dirty floors.. i know they can be disinfected..but still...

but i let her inside again, a month ago, she held it fine during the night the first few nights, but then she had an accident, and since then she doesn't care anymore again... i let her out about every 3-4 hours..and i go to bed late, so i let her out at about 1 or 2 in the night, and then wake up at 9:30...but she already has 2..or 3... or sometimes 4 piles up on the kitchen floor...

what am i supposed to do???

i'm even trying to not feed her in the evening.. like not give her any food after like 7 o'clock..but she still has sh*t in the night..

i do drag her over to it, and point and say that its bad, and slap her, and she knows its wrong.. if i come into the kitchen and just point at it, she looks guilty, knowing its wrong... what else can i do?? help??

[MommyPaws]

i don't want her to stay in the garden all the time, i love her and want her in the house, shes nice and friendly, but i'm just very very very very sick of cleaning after her :(

[specialmom]

Is this the same lab that just had puppies recently?  

[tonyb286]

Quite frankly, I feel sorry for your dog. The way you talk it's as if you wanted a dog to be everything you wanted and anything else is an inconvenience. Sorry for sounding harsh, but you mention "I kicked her outside", you "slap her" and clearly you don't understand the nature of dogs or how to treat them.

Rule One: Dogs need careful and consistent training to become house-trained. Slapping creates fear, which doesn't work. Shouting creates anxiety, which doesn't work. Pulling dogs over to where they've had an accident after the event, doesn't work. Blaming dogs for their behavior, when actually it's either a physical problem or more likely the way you have been training them, is not the right thing to do.

Rule Two: Dogs are individuals. They have their own characters and they don't always do what we would like them to do. If you want a robot - get a robot with an ON/OFF switch.

Rule Three: The first thing your dog needs is some love and care and a trip to the vet. She needs careful and full investigation for urinary problems (infections particularly) and for kidney issues. If the examination and blood results are results are okay, then you need to start re-training her in a normal and consistent way.

You have to now think of your dog as a puppy again and start from scratch. Using the crate can work, but not all dogs are suitable to be left for long periods in a crate - which I think may be the case in your situation. Take a look at House Training A Puppy on http://www.perfectpaws.com/pupstuff.html as a starting point.

If I came across as being a bit blunt above, sorry, but it makes me frustrated and angry when people get frustrated over something that is actually their fault, not their dog's fault, and then use physical assault as a way of punishing them. There is never any need to use physical punishment on a dog. Correcting behavior takes time and effort, mutual respect, patience, love and devotion.

Tony

[specialmom]

I'm a little disturbed by this post especially after the one in which you said you were not a responsible dog owner and your one dog impregnated your lab.  This must be that lab and that post coupled with this one makes me really nervous for the dogs in your home.  

Sometimes knowing our limitations when it comes to children and pets is important for all involved.  Perhaps adopting out this dog to a home in which they have time a patience to train her would be best for all (including you as you sound like you have your hands full.)  

[MommyPaws]

very helpful thanks

[Margot49]

Agree with Tony's post, well said.
This obviously is not working out well for you or the dog.  Having a young child is stressful enough and maybe this is just not a good time to have a dog.  I donated  a Golden I had years ago to Guiding Eyes.  I had 3 small children and the dog was to big and I just did not have the time for her.  I realized this was not good for the dog either.

Maybe you should step back and realize that this just may be too much fir you right now.  I would wait until your child is older then perhaps getting a dog.

Probably the best thing you can do now, as hard as it might be, is to contact a Rescue or the SPCA and try to find a new home for the dog.  It would be better for you right now and the dog.

[specialmom]

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Dogs/newborn-puppies/show/2088540#post_9910319

I'm just wondering how things are also going for these very young puppies?

[Margot49]

Oh no!!  

[MommyPaws]

tony, you just said things that you don't understand, but didn't give me any advices... by kicking her out i meant she lived in the back garden for few months with a dog house and bed provided, by slapping her, i actually mean a slight slap, not abusevely beat up the dog.. you told me all those things don't work..then tell me what DOES work, please..
she was at the vets, theres nothing wrong with her..
i wwill not use the crate again, because that would not just get the floor dirty but will get her dirty all over aswell, i'd rather just clean the floor than give her baths everyday, which is not good for dogs.

i am not going to give her away, i'm not just going to give her away because things are hard, i love my dog, i just want her to be able to hold it in and go to toilet outside, and i'm asking for advices what to do.. not asking for your opinion of whether i should get rid of her or not.

if pointing at it, or slapping, or bringing her outside every 3-4 doesn't work..what CAN i do??  

don't make me out to be this abusive, horrible owner :(

[tonyb286]

I think I did give 'some' advice ... but I would really like to know when she was last at the vet (if not recent, then she needs to go to be properly examined) and exactly what investigations did the vet make? What were the blood test results (need the levels to make a judgement)?

Things need to be done in a logical order, otherwise an important physical problem could be missed, and that could mean this won't be resolved with re-training, no matter how much effort is put in.

I'm not saying you are an abusive, horrible owner ... but I do think your approach is borne out of frustration, which is not the dog's fault. Have you read the other advice I gave, which was to go to the page about re-training a puppy?

Also, how long are you at home with the dog? All day? Part of the day? How long is the dog left alone? Where does she sleep? Does she have a separate room in your home or does she sleep in the kitchen, hall, sitting room, etc.?

Perhaps you would get back on the questions I have asked and we can carry on from there. Tony

[MommyPaws]

she was at the vet almost 3 weeks ago, there was no blood test, but she doesn't have any signs with bowel or bladder infections

i'm home all day, i'm not working, i have time to spend with her and do what you can tell me to do..
she is mostly in the kitchen now, as you can see from above answers she had puppies recently, so we keep the kitchen door closed so that shes with puppies all the time, before she had the puppies she slept with us in the bedroom and walked around the house where she wanted... we spend a lot of time in the kitchen as well, we're always here, shes only left alone at nights and when we leave the house

i read the site, and everything there i've tried

[tonyb286]

Hi. Unfortunately, you cannot say she has no infections, because how would you know with her having a blood test? She DOES have symptoms ... urinating and defecating without control are potential symptoms of an infection. The fact she had puppies recently could also point towards an infection or trauma to the urethra and or the bowel area.

My point is, we need to discount a physical issue before we begin any re-training. So, first priority, get her back to the vet and get bloodwork done. I know this may seem like an unnecessary expense, but it's vital to get this aspect sorted and (hopefully) resolved, otherwise any effort put into training will be ineffective, because a dog with a physical issue cannot control their bladder/bowels regardless of training.

Once you have the bloodwork done and have the results, please come back and we can go from there. Tony

[tonyb286]

Typo error there ... it should have read "because how would you know without her having a blood test?"

Typing too fast on a sticky keyed keyboard.

I was also going to ask, what happened to the pups? Are they still with mother or have they left her? How old were they when they left? This could also have an impact, particularly if mum has become anxious about them or is worn out from caring for them?

Tony

[specialmom]

I do think that some good advice had been given. You have to go back to treating her like she is brand new to you.  Supervise at all times, set your alarm and take her out at night (I have a puppy that I get up at night for currently as she is young and small and can't go all night), etc.  But that she is having such nighttime accidents is not the norm.  I think you do indeed need to make sure there isn't  a medical problem.  Your dog could have worms, parasites, etc.  Especially if she has been living outside for a while.  And the thing with parasites is that one stool sample is usually not enough to determine if they are present.  You also mention in a previous post that you are feeding her puppy formula which was causing loose stool.  THIS is the time for patience.  How are you handling potty situations with the pups?  Paper training?  This dog is typically with them, I'm sure.  

You also mention something that you need to investigate with a professional dog trainer.  That she was going in her crate is not the norm from what I understand.  By nature, dogs are clean creatures.  They do not like to live with their potty stuff.  They avoid going where they sleep.  So she was either in the crate long periods of time, was a dog that is from a puppy mill type of situation and has some emotional problems.  It's best to address this with a professional dog trainer.  In the states, these are easy to find. Every vet has people they can recommend as well as places that are pet stores have inexpensive classes in which you can work with a trainer.  Please consider this.

And I also made comments regarding your being overwhelmed for dogs at this point.  On a web site, you only have what someone writes to go by and that is certainly how it appears from your own words.  I'm a mother too and have two kids very close in age.  our dog passed away when our sons were 1 and 2 and I really wanted another one.  BUT, we did not get one then because I realized my priority was my kids and I didn't have the time for a pup.  We waited until my youngest was 5.  Now three years later, we have another one.  Because it takes a huge amount of time to train a dog.  And just being home doesn't really do the job.  You have to really supervise and monitor them and that is hard when you are otherwise preoccupied or not into the job.

With our new pup, she is actually doing pretty well with potty training.  it was a combination of a few things.  CONSTANT supervision --  the times in which she tried to go in the house, I was right there and scooped her up took her outside where when she finished going, I could give her praise.  Watching for her signs that she needed to go.  She gets a little wild and then starts sniffing around.  My kids know the signs too and will say she needs to go out if she does that.  And then when she goes outside, the praise is huge.  She's finally getting it.  We have bells on our back door and she will ring the bells now to go out.  I wouldn't say I trust her---  but we are on our way.  But it was pretty much constant following her around for a few weeks.  And at night, she is in her crate.  At the very least, you could tie her to something close to her bed so she can't wander off.  And get up with her at night if you have to for a bit.  Clean where she's gone with vinegar and water to get rid of the odor that she's picking up too.  

But I do think sometimes knowing our limitations is good.  That's all.  You sound overwhelmed and like this isn't a good situation for the dog or you.  And that there are puppies as well, that worries me.  

good luck

[specialmom]

The pups would not yet be 3 weeks old.  Very young.  

[specialmom]

Oh, sorry.  speaking of the pups.  They also need vet checked.  A vet should deworm them as well which is standard puppy procedure and they are getting ready to need their first set of vaccines.  

When you take the pups, take this dog and discuss the bowel issues to have the mother given a full check to see if anything medically is going on.  good luck

[specialmom]

By the way, did you ever find out what was causing your dog to lose hair in lots of patches?  

[Jerry_NJ]

You take a lot of "advice" very gracefully, good for you.  I hope you have the same patience with your dogs - it appears you do.

The only thing I can add, or maybe repeat my memory isn't good enough to recall all I have read in this thread, consider taking your problem female to the vet, get her spayed (as soon as possible, given her recent delivery).  I think she will return (right?) to normal and/or easier to re-train when she isn't pressured by puppies/motherhood.

Boy it is expensive having pets, I'll not disclose details on the lack of vetrenary care dogs I have had as a child and even as an adult, but I can say they lived long lives - guess they were mostly just healthy.  We did lose one at a young age due to being hit by a car, and I think that dog was put to "sleep" because my parents couldn't afford to treat.  I still miss that dog, and he was hit because he was running around the streets with me after dark.  My point?  MommyPaws I'm Pulling For You, God Bless..

[tonyb286]

Hi. I am delighted to read you are getting lots of supportive comments and good advice here. Soak it up and use it well. All I want to add is that housetraining an adult dog is achievable, so please keep to the priorities and things will be okay ... vet first, get the bloodwork done, then we can get started. I'm happy to guide you through it, if that's what you want, or feel free to get a behaviorist in, if that's a route you prefer. This is more complicated with the pups, but not impossible, so feel reassured. Let's make sure mum is healthy first though. Tony

[Margot49]

You are receiving a lot if good advice but training is now complicated with her having a litter and being in the kitchen.  It might better to put up a tall security gate rather than closing the door, if that is possible, and let her out often as I assume she is consuming more food and drinking more while nursing.
What food are you feeding?
Yes, you should get a good wormer from the Vet.  Might not be a bad idea to take in stool samples to be checked, on Mom too.
Your training may have to wait until after these puppies are weaned and/or gone.  You will have to start at the beginning again.  For one. I would not let her have free run of the house or you have no control.
Since you are home, you might try tying her to you so you know what she is doing and can immediately correct any accidents.  That means you give a firm NO!! And take her outside whether she has gone or not.  When she does potty outside, praise and reward.
You might want to read up on NILF dog training.
Agree with Tony, would still get blood and urine and stool checked.
You don't see or smell any discharge since she whelped, do you?

[MommyPaws]

i didn't mean to sound rude when i was writing, i do have patience. she was checked for parasites, she does not have fleas or mites or anything, she is wormed every three months, shes due a worming this month and i'll worm her and the puppies (special mom - the hair loss is due to pregnancy, i'm giving her omega tablets now, the baldness isn't getting any worse anymore)

tony, the puppies are only going to be 3 weeks on friday, they can't leave yet, shes with them all the time, thats why shes kept in the kitchen, for a while, when the puppies will leave she'll sleep in our bedroom, so i will be able to see if she needs to go during the night.. the puppies don't go to toilet on their own yet, they should start this week, i'm going to get puppy pads till they are walking properly, not wobbly, to be brought outside for few minutes

not feeding her in the evenings, works i think,  she didn't have an accident this morning, so, what i'll do is, i will continue not feeding her in the evenings, and have an alarm to take her out during the night... so if that doesn't work then, i'll say it to the vet again when i'll go in there next time to get worming tablets

specialmom, i don't want to give her away, i really don't, if i bring her to the pet rescue, she'll just be stuck in a cage, who would want to adopt a dog, not a puppy.. and there were a lot of stories around here about dog fights, and how those people are looking for "free to go" or cheap dogs and puppies.. .so i don't know who'll she end up with, and i don't want her to go. yes my child is my first priority, but she doesn't interfere with that priority, if she was an agressive and snappy dog, then yes i wouldn't like to keep her, but shes friendly, theres no reason for her to go, i'll do my best at getting up with her during the nights so she doesn't have accidents..

[tonyb286]

Okay. Let me know how things go. Come back to this thread if you need to and I'll respond. Good luck. Tony

[petindia]

Puppies are so delightful and just not possible to resist. But we expect them not to peeing and pooing all over the dwelling. So here are some of tips you can use to set up to potty train your puppy:-


1. Understand that puppies needs to go to the bathroom a lot as a young puppy has a very small bladder, and they haven’t yet cultured the talent to control it. So keep it in mind this when it comes to potty training your puppy.

2. Establish yourself as the leader; this will help in earning your puppy’s respect, trust and admiration. And your puppy will star following all your potty training instructions.

3. Uphold a stringent schedule when you take your puppy out to go potty. Travel through the same door and use the same direction. With your awareness of your puppy’s peeing preferences, foresee when she’ll want to urine and bring her to the puppy bathroom.

4. Never forget to encourage your puppy every time she pees in the right spot. Thrash out your cheery, joyful voice and lavish her with adulation and praise. Your puppy now has an emotional ingenious to do her job in the right place.

Regards,
PetClubIndia

[tonyb286]

Hi. Sorry but you have misinterpreted the thread ... this is not a puppy but a 13 month old adult dog ... with puppies. Tony