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Rising white and red blood cells
Hi, hopefully someone can assist me.
I have a question regarding white and red blood cells in a urine exam.
4 months ago my reading was
Leucocytes 4 x10 6/L (<10)
Erythrocytes 0 x10 6/L (<10)
Epithelial cells 0 x10 6/L (<10)
Today the readings are;
Leucocytes 29 x10 6/L (<10)
Erythrocytes 18 x10 6/L (<10)
Epithelial cells 1 x10 6/L (<10)
What does this mean?
I have a question regarding white and red blood cells in a urine exam.
4 months ago my reading was
Leucocytes 4 x10 6/L (<10)
Erythrocytes 0 x10 6/L (<10)
Epithelial cells 0 x10 6/L (<10)
Today the readings are;
Leucocytes 29 x10 6/L (<10)
Erythrocytes 18 x10 6/L (<10)
Epithelial cells 1 x10 6/L (<10)
What does this mean?
To be honest I do not know much about PSA levels, only that 6 is considered raised and 9 is high and considered as prostate cancer. This is because both my hubby and father had those levels. You may find more info on PSA levels on the web.
The only reason I suggested that your MRI get done ASAP, was because I agree with your urologist "He did say I should have a MRI of the prostate ASAP". So I would be inclined to follow his advice because he is the expert in these matters.
As your prostate is enlarged, you will probably be given medication to keep it down. It is important that you get regular checks on this and it's good that you are under the care of the urologist.
My father's prostate was extremely large that stopped him urinating. Just came on very suddenly and it was urgent - his belly got huge within hours, this was due to the build up of fluids in the bladder. They operated on him and removed half of the prostate, but 10 years later it was confirmed that it was cancerous. He is on medication for this - been on it for the last 6 years and is monitored regularly.
Do keep in touch and let me know how you get on.
Best wishes.
The only reason I suggested that your MRI get done ASAP, was because I agree with your urologist "He did say I should have a MRI of the prostate ASAP". So I would be inclined to follow his advice because he is the expert in these matters.
As your prostate is enlarged, you will probably be given medication to keep it down. It is important that you get regular checks on this and it's good that you are under the care of the urologist.
My father's prostate was extremely large that stopped him urinating. Just came on very suddenly and it was urgent - his belly got huge within hours, this was due to the build up of fluids in the bladder. They operated on him and removed half of the prostate, but 10 years later it was confirmed that it was cancerous. He is on medication for this - been on it for the last 6 years and is monitored regularly.
Do keep in touch and let me know how you get on.
Best wishes.
Hi
Interesting what you say about getting the MRI ASAP.
My logic was to wait for the urine and PSA tests and if they improve then it would indicate an infection, which may remove the need for a MRI.
As to escalating PSA, that was my concern.
In 2011 the PSA was 1.8
In April 2014 it was 2.27.
In Jan 2015 it was 3.05.
While it has been rising, I wonder, is 3.05 regarded as high?
Interesting what you say about getting the MRI ASAP.
My logic was to wait for the urine and PSA tests and if they improve then it would indicate an infection, which may remove the need for a MRI.
As to escalating PSA, that was my concern.
In 2011 the PSA was 1.8
In April 2014 it was 2.27.
In Jan 2015 it was 3.05.
While it has been rising, I wonder, is 3.05 regarded as high?
What you have to gain by having the MRI scan is that if it does show up a problem in the prostate, you will get the right type of medication/treatment a lot sooner.
If there are any abnormal growths or cells, the sooner you get the appropriate treatment the better.
By what you say, it sounds like you had a blood test that showed higher levels of PSA than normal. With that and the results of your urine specimen is why your urologist wants the MRI done ASAP. A raised PSA level may indicate an enlargement of the prostate gland and if the gland is enlarged with no other problems, you may be given medication to reduce it. If it is extremely large - it may press on you urinary tubes and you may not be able to pass urine even if you get an urge (if that happens go to the ER asap), the urologist may decide to reduce the size of the prostate or remove it altogether.
The PSA blood test will indicate whether you have a problem with the prostate and depending on the PSA level whether that would indicate prostate cancer. Don't be alarmed - the sooner you get the appropriate treatment early, the prospects are very good. You may have raised levels, but may not be high enough to indicate cancer but would still indicate that there is a problem.
I am glad that you insisted your doctor refer you to the urologist ASAP.
Hope things improve with the antibiotics.
Do keep me posted how you get on.
Best wishes.
If there are any abnormal growths or cells, the sooner you get the appropriate treatment the better.
By what you say, it sounds like you had a blood test that showed higher levels of PSA than normal. With that and the results of your urine specimen is why your urologist wants the MRI done ASAP. A raised PSA level may indicate an enlargement of the prostate gland and if the gland is enlarged with no other problems, you may be given medication to reduce it. If it is extremely large - it may press on you urinary tubes and you may not be able to pass urine even if you get an urge (if that happens go to the ER asap), the urologist may decide to reduce the size of the prostate or remove it altogether.
The PSA blood test will indicate whether you have a problem with the prostate and depending on the PSA level whether that would indicate prostate cancer. Don't be alarmed - the sooner you get the appropriate treatment early, the prospects are very good. You may have raised levels, but may not be high enough to indicate cancer but would still indicate that there is a problem.
I am glad that you insisted your doctor refer you to the urologist ASAP.
Hope things improve with the antibiotics.
Do keep me posted how you get on.
Best wishes.
Thanks for your update.
Interesting what you say about kidney stones.
Even more interesting is what you say about the prostate.
I saw the urologist today (he was ill on the 20th) and he suspects the urine infection is a function of prostatitis. He has not yet diagnosed prostatitis, but is leaning that way.
He put me on antibiotics (norfloxacin - 2 per day for 14 days).
He wants to repeat the urine test and the PSA a month after I complete the norfloxacin. That is in 6 weeks' time.
He says if the white blood cells and red blood cells together with the PSA all improve then that's the end of the story. Otherwise he wants a biospy of the prostate.
Intriguingly he NEVER suggested a cystoscopy.
He did say I should have a MRI of the prostate ASAP, but I wonder what I have to gain having it BEFORE the next urine test (in 6 weeks time).
What do you think?
Interesting what you say about kidney stones.
Even more interesting is what you say about the prostate.
I saw the urologist today (he was ill on the 20th) and he suspects the urine infection is a function of prostatitis. He has not yet diagnosed prostatitis, but is leaning that way.
He put me on antibiotics (norfloxacin - 2 per day for 14 days).
He wants to repeat the urine test and the PSA a month after I complete the norfloxacin. That is in 6 weeks' time.
He says if the white blood cells and red blood cells together with the PSA all improve then that's the end of the story. Otherwise he wants a biospy of the prostate.
Intriguingly he NEVER suggested a cystoscopy.
He did say I should have a MRI of the prostate ASAP, but I wonder what I have to gain having it BEFORE the next urine test (in 6 weeks time).
What do you think?
It all depends on what they are looking for.
I asked two of my doctors at my doctors surgery before Xmas if I could do a gallon day specimen of my urine (my urine sticks show leucocytes, sometimes blood and sometimes protein) and Sod's Law if you take a sample to take to the doctor it is clear! On average, I seem to get a kidney infection and the whole side (left front, side and back hurts, even to touch), but it does not always shows any abnormality on the urine analysis stick. I had a kidney stone removed from that kidney when I was 39 and know that I have a cyst. Both doctors said that it is not necessary to do a gallon specimen and that a small tube one is sufficient and it depends on what the suspected condition is with regard to doing a large specimen.
Many years when I had my kidney stone problem and was waiting to see a urologist, I did have to pee into a gallon container for a few days.
If you have no symptoms and there is no abnormality in the small specimen container, you should be fine. Sometimes a blood test is taken to check your kidney function. If you are taking some types of medications, you should have a blood test taken at least once a year to check your kidney and liver function.
Because you are a male it may be that they are checking things out with regard to prostate problems as well are urinary ones. The other reason for peeing into a large container is to measure how much fluids you are emptying. If you want to know the reason why you had to pee into a large container, you should ask your doctor for an explanation.
Do remember that kidney stones, even as small as a grain of sand can cause problems, but only when they move.
With any type of urinary issue, unless your instructed otherwise by your urologist or doctor, you should be drinking lots of water in the day.
Hope things are all fine.
Please let me know how you get with your urologist.
I asked two of my doctors at my doctors surgery before Xmas if I could do a gallon day specimen of my urine (my urine sticks show leucocytes, sometimes blood and sometimes protein) and Sod's Law if you take a sample to take to the doctor it is clear! On average, I seem to get a kidney infection and the whole side (left front, side and back hurts, even to touch), but it does not always shows any abnormality on the urine analysis stick. I had a kidney stone removed from that kidney when I was 39 and know that I have a cyst. Both doctors said that it is not necessary to do a gallon specimen and that a small tube one is sufficient and it depends on what the suspected condition is with regard to doing a large specimen.
Many years when I had my kidney stone problem and was waiting to see a urologist, I did have to pee into a gallon container for a few days.
If you have no symptoms and there is no abnormality in the small specimen container, you should be fine. Sometimes a blood test is taken to check your kidney function. If you are taking some types of medications, you should have a blood test taken at least once a year to check your kidney and liver function.
Because you are a male it may be that they are checking things out with regard to prostate problems as well are urinary ones. The other reason for peeing into a large container is to measure how much fluids you are emptying. If you want to know the reason why you had to pee into a large container, you should ask your doctor for an explanation.
Do remember that kidney stones, even as small as a grain of sand can cause problems, but only when they move.
With any type of urinary issue, unless your instructed otherwise by your urologist or doctor, you should be drinking lots of water in the day.
Hope things are all fine.
Please let me know how you get with your urologist.
Sorry for reading your post only now but I was busy at work.
Thanks for the reply. You are most informative.
I will need to digest your comments.
I pushed my GP to send me to a urologist asap and am seeing a good one tomorrow (20 Jan).
I do have another question.
When I did the 3 day urine cytology a couple of months ago, one lab asked me to drink plenty of water, then walk around for one hour and then pee (into a 600 ml container) ONLY when I can no longer hold it in. This was repeated daily for 3 days.
Last week I did the cytology elsewhere. This time another lab gave me 3 small (50mj jars) and made no mention of drinking a lot, being very mobile before peeing and peeing only when I cannot hold it in.
That test showed NO MALIGNANCY.
I wonder if the test from two different labs is comparable?
Thanks for the reply. You are most informative.
I will need to digest your comments.
I pushed my GP to send me to a urologist asap and am seeing a good one tomorrow (20 Jan).
I do have another question.
When I did the 3 day urine cytology a couple of months ago, one lab asked me to drink plenty of water, then walk around for one hour and then pee (into a 600 ml container) ONLY when I can no longer hold it in. This was repeated daily for 3 days.
Last week I did the cytology elsewhere. This time another lab gave me 3 small (50mj jars) and made no mention of drinking a lot, being very mobile before peeing and peeing only when I cannot hold it in.
That test showed NO MALIGNANCY.
I wonder if the test from two different labs is comparable?
I am not a doctor.
If the last urine specimen was tested at the laboratory and the results came clear, then, yes, that means there is no bacteria and you would not need any antibiotics. Antibiotics will only help with bacterial infections and it also needs to be the correct antibiotic to kill the specific bacteria that is causing the problem.
Having leucocytes in the urine indicates an infection and your symptoms would indicate where the infection was.
Protein too can indicate an infection and a doctor would also look at the other results to determine if you need any medication.
Blood (Erythrocytes) in the urine can indicate a problem in the urinary tract, but not necessarily an infection. Blood in the urine should always be investigated further in men. With menstruating women, blood can get into the urine specimen.
Nitrites in the urine specimen would indicate an infection in the bladder (Cystitis)
Protein in the urine would indicate that there is a problem with your kidneys. Too much protein in the urine is called Proteinuria. The relevant protein to kidney disease is albumin. Protein in the urine is not always caused by an infection, and you can find more information on the web with regard to that: http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Kidneyhealth/Documents/protein%20in%20urine.pdf
Epithelial cells line hollow organs and glands and are on the outer surface of the body. You can read more about epithelial cells in the urine on:
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/epithelial-cells-in-urine.html
With regard to your readings of:
Leucocytes 29 x10 6/L (<10)
Erythrocytes 18 x10 6/L (<10)
Epithelial cells 1 x10 6/L (<10)
You have an infection that needs treating. The laboratory would have been able to identify the bacteria to inform the doctor which is the antibiotic that he should prescribe for you to treat the specific bacteria that you have that is causing the problem.
If you are getting frequent urinary problems, you do need to be referred to a urologist.
You should drink lots of fluids, especially water. 2 litres a day is usually recommended, but your doctor or urologist may advise you to drink more. Follow the advice of your doctor or urologist. If you sweat a lot, you may need to drink more than 2 litres a day. Too much can be just as dangerous as being dehydrated.
I buy urine dip sticks off the web (they are not too expensive) to test my urine when I get symptoms. You do need to know how to interpret the results. Sometimes even with symptoms there is no indication of an infection on the urine sticks. A laboratory test is more accurate, but the sticks are a good indicator as to infections of the urinary tract. If symptoms are bad (regardless of what shows on the dip stick), it is always best to see your doctor.
If the urine sample that is tested by a laboratory shows no abnormalities, then that would suggest there is no infection. That does not mean that you do not have a problem, especially if you have kidney stones. Kidney stones only cause a problem when they move and by moving, a stone can scratch the lining of the urinary tract, causing blood (sometimes visible), protein and leucocytes. A kidney stone can be as small as a grain of sand, but can still cause problems.
The specific gravity and PH levels also are taken into account.
Hope that helps.
If the last urine specimen was tested at the laboratory and the results came clear, then, yes, that means there is no bacteria and you would not need any antibiotics. Antibiotics will only help with bacterial infections and it also needs to be the correct antibiotic to kill the specific bacteria that is causing the problem.
Having leucocytes in the urine indicates an infection and your symptoms would indicate where the infection was.
Protein too can indicate an infection and a doctor would also look at the other results to determine if you need any medication.
Blood (Erythrocytes) in the urine can indicate a problem in the urinary tract, but not necessarily an infection. Blood in the urine should always be investigated further in men. With menstruating women, blood can get into the urine specimen.
Nitrites in the urine specimen would indicate an infection in the bladder (Cystitis)
Protein in the urine would indicate that there is a problem with your kidneys. Too much protein in the urine is called Proteinuria. The relevant protein to kidney disease is albumin. Protein in the urine is not always caused by an infection, and you can find more information on the web with regard to that: http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Kidneyhealth/Documents/protein%20in%20urine.pdf
Epithelial cells line hollow organs and glands and are on the outer surface of the body. You can read more about epithelial cells in the urine on:
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/epithelial-cells-in-urine.html
With regard to your readings of:
Leucocytes 29 x10 6/L (<10)
Erythrocytes 18 x10 6/L (<10)
Epithelial cells 1 x10 6/L (<10)
You have an infection that needs treating. The laboratory would have been able to identify the bacteria to inform the doctor which is the antibiotic that he should prescribe for you to treat the specific bacteria that you have that is causing the problem.
If you are getting frequent urinary problems, you do need to be referred to a urologist.
You should drink lots of fluids, especially water. 2 litres a day is usually recommended, but your doctor or urologist may advise you to drink more. Follow the advice of your doctor or urologist. If you sweat a lot, you may need to drink more than 2 litres a day. Too much can be just as dangerous as being dehydrated.
I buy urine dip sticks off the web (they are not too expensive) to test my urine when I get symptoms. You do need to know how to interpret the results. Sometimes even with symptoms there is no indication of an infection on the urine sticks. A laboratory test is more accurate, but the sticks are a good indicator as to infections of the urinary tract. If symptoms are bad (regardless of what shows on the dip stick), it is always best to see your doctor.
If the urine sample that is tested by a laboratory shows no abnormalities, then that would suggest there is no infection. That does not mean that you do not have a problem, especially if you have kidney stones. Kidney stones only cause a problem when they move and by moving, a stone can scratch the lining of the urinary tract, causing blood (sometimes visible), protein and leucocytes. A kidney stone can be as small as a grain of sand, but can still cause problems.
The specific gravity and PH levels also are taken into account.
Hope that helps.
Thanks for the reply. Sorry but I realize I left one key point out. In the latest urine there was NO GROWTH. This I think means no bacteria and hence antibiotics will not help. Is that true and if so does that change your diagnosis?
Finding leucocytes with protein and blood in the urine indicates a urine infection.
Your doctor will be able to send a urine sample to the laboratory for analysis to find out the bugs that are causing this so that the appropriate antibiotic would be prescribed.
Sometimes if the doctor feels that an antibiotic treatment is required straight away, he will prescribe an antibiotic that generally works on a urinary infection. He may send your urine sample off before you start to take your antibiotics (if you take a urine sample with you). If it is found the antibiotic you were prescribed is not the right one to treat your infection, you will be informed and the correct antibiotics prescribed.
If you also have other symptoms or persistent symptoms that do not clear up with antibiotics, the doctor may refer you to have an ultrasound scan done of your urinary tract (kidneys, ureter, bladder) or refer you to a urologist for further investigation.
In the meantime you must keep drinking plenty of water to flush out any bacteria.
Sometimes, kidney stones that are on the move can cause infections and/or blood in the urine.
Your doctor will be able to send a urine sample to the laboratory for analysis to find out the bugs that are causing this so that the appropriate antibiotic would be prescribed.
Sometimes if the doctor feels that an antibiotic treatment is required straight away, he will prescribe an antibiotic that generally works on a urinary infection. He may send your urine sample off before you start to take your antibiotics (if you take a urine sample with you). If it is found the antibiotic you were prescribed is not the right one to treat your infection, you will be informed and the correct antibiotics prescribed.
If you also have other symptoms or persistent symptoms that do not clear up with antibiotics, the doctor may refer you to have an ultrasound scan done of your urinary tract (kidneys, ureter, bladder) or refer you to a urologist for further investigation.
In the meantime you must keep drinking plenty of water to flush out any bacteria.
Sometimes, kidney stones that are on the move can cause infections and/or blood in the urine.
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