to jean clude ,teak ,joggen ,lizzy louie and nursegirl and other expertsabout handling the dead bodies

[prem84]

hi... every body in and out of this community
my question is regarding DEAD BODIES(known hiv infected). as this is less dicussed topic and i cant get it on the forum
When the person dies with hiv and in  the funeral ceremony the person used to get bath from there relatives and all and then get dressed up and then burnt. this is the procedure adopted traditionaly and cant be changed in INDIA. SPECIALLY TO MY COMMUNITY TO WHOM I BELONG.
so what r the odds that any of the family members get infection is ther any of the slightest chance in any way keeping in mind the cuts abrasions mucous membrane exposure and the  dead body had secretions as more common ..........
plz i m not paronoid just i want the scintific reason and hope this topic shold relly be disccussed. AS  in CDC TOPIC I READ  that UNIVERSAL saftey precation should be made while handling the dead bodies...
plz i will really appreciate

[LIZZIE LOU]

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/HIV-Prevention/dead-bodies/show/1064500?personal_page_id=798810&;post_id=post_4922618

[nursegirl6572]

Color me confused.  Sorry, but you're all over the place here.  I just replied to your PM asking about possible risks while taking care of two POS family members of yours, and then you post this thread.  ?????

With all due respect, it seems as though you've got a bit of an HIV phobia, which unfortunately, is not uncommon.  For that kind of irrational obsessive thought, you should seek professional help.  The very best thing you could do for both yourself, and for your infected loved ones...is to educate yourself and get rid of the misconceptions.

Your questions on this thread alone (the same as the one you already asked back in Sept, btw) are silly.  Even with your religous practices when it comes to post-mortem rituals in your culture, from what I understand, only the people in the funeral business handle the corpses, therefore, it wouldn't necessitate any kind of precautions on behalf of spectators at all.  Burning a body would be of no risk if you are in the nearby vicinity.  

It goes without saying that anyone who has to handle a deceased person should utilize universal precautions (which simply means gloves if there is a possibility of exposure to bodily fluids, eye protection if there is a risk of some sort of splashing of fluids, etc etc.)  It is the same thing we do in the health care world....and basically, in more simpler terms, it is common sense.

Time to move on and try to rid yourself of your HIV hang-ups.

[mike_no]

Prem,

You are concerned about some thing that is not possible, there is a missing link here and that's "scope of transmission". HIV can't be contracted or transmitted in that fashion. You need to understand that casual contact is not an effective mode of HIV transmission. I clearly understand what you are talking about, being an Indian my self, I am pretty much aware of the ritual you are referring to and I can only tell you that during the ritual there is no instance that could act as a potential HIV transmission route.

Please be aware that HIV can only spread through unprotected penetrative sex with someone who is infected, injection or transfusion of contaminated blood or blood products, donations of semen (artificial insemination), organ transplants taken from someone who is infected, from a mother who is infected to her baby; this can occur during pregnancy, at birth and through breastfeeding, sharing unsterilised injection equipment that has previously been used by someone who is infected.

I also see that you are not aware of HIV and it's transmission, I urge you you to take your time to read through good modules available on this website about HIV and move on. Please accept the advise give to you by the members here and move on. Once again, be rest assured that you and your family members are fine, there was no potential HIV transmission media available during the whole event.

Good Luck.

[prem84]

thank u nursegirl
is it likely that the dead bodies emits the body fluids how it is possible? what r the possible sources from where the body fluids will be splashing.(what kind of fluids emits in the corpse?) .as my family members all are illiterate i m sure that they wont be using there  common sense too at that situation, and will move on to the religious practices.... without gloves. no one will bother to wear eye protection and some sort of googles and gloves as u mentioned as all on health care people practices. if i recommend them to use gloves the spectotor will make fun of them as no one among the spectator will be knowing the fact that my family member is dying because of HIV.
"only the people in the funeral business handle the corpses" none of thes is applicable here as i saw only the family memebers would have to do all the procedure.
U MEAN IF THESE precations are not made i m pushing my family member in risk IS THAT SO?
CAN U GIVE UR KIND SUGGESTION IN THAT.............
SOORY I KNOW I DONT HAVE PHOBIA. I M NOT FREAKED ABOUT THIS I JUST WANNA KNOW SCIENTIFIC FACTS AND EVIDENCES. i know i can handle that situatio too......... waiting for ur reply

[prem84]

hi mike
thanks for ur advice
is it likely that the dead bodies emits the body fluids how it is possible? what r the possible sources from where the body fluids will be splashing.(what kind of fluids emits in the corpse?) .as my family members all are illiterate i m sure that they wont be using there  common sense too at that situation, and will move on to the religious practices.... without gloves. no one will bother to wear eye protection and some sort of googles and gloves as u mentioned as all on health care people practices. if i recommend them to use gloves the spectotor will make fun of them as no one among the spectator will be knowing the fact that my family member is dying because of HIV.
"only the people in the funeral business handle the corpses" none of thes is applicable here as i saw only the family memebers would have to do all the procedure.
U MEAN IF THESE precations are not made i m pushing my family member in risk IS THAT SO?
CAN U GIVE UR KIND SUGGESTION IN THAT.............
SOORY I KNOW I DONT HAVE PHOBIA. I M NOT FREAKED ABOUT THIS I JUST WANNA KNOW SCIENTIFIC FACTS AND EVIDENCES. i know i can handle that situatio too......... waiting for ur reply

[JeanClaude]

As I have been present for Hindu,parsee, ane Sikh ceremonies in India, there is generally NO RISK to the participants in the ceremony. The risk IF any would lie in the hands of any medical personel (ie bodily liquid draining) which generally doesn't happen in most sects I've seen. This said, it is wise for the people actually transporting the body to utilize at least latex gloves where there is a known HIV infected corpse. As mike_no alluded to, there needs to be a "transmission vector" involved in HIV transmission. There generally is none where a deceased person is involved.

-JC-

[prem84]

than k u mike but has ther any documented case as such found handling the dead bodies . thank u man u r from india and u know the ritual procedure. ther is noone caring at that situation as such mensioned above plz go through my above post and recommend in  INDIA WHER CAN I GET THE PROFESSIONAL HELP.
AS alredy two of my family mee\mbers r infected alredy and ther r kids too in my family....
i m worried about them to... this is most uncommon u know this is phobis but i diagrre with this i m not paronoid as such.

[JeanClaude]

Your questions and concerns are quite valid. HIV infection from handling the deceased body of a loved one would be most unusual. HIV does remain infectious after death for some time, but becomes less so very quickly. As there is no cutting involved and if there was no trauma to the body, I don't see a risk. I know there are some good hospitals and HIV clinics in Pune. Would it be possible for you to get info. from them ? I assume that's where you reside.

-JC-

[JeanClaude]

Mike,
  Your info. on routes of infection etc is accurate.  Being a member of the medical  community and a fairly conservative one, I would still urge the use of Universal Precautions in this case for HIV, HCV and other blood borne pathogens.

-JC-

[JeanClaude]

Q. How long does the virus survive in a corpse?
This question has relevance for those involved in burial practices e.g. bathing the body and touching the body while preparing it for burial. The risk does not only lie with the HIV virus but also with other opportunistic infections. A corpse, particularly of a person known to have been HIV infected, must be handled as if infectious. This would be irrespective of the duration of time since death. Any fluids or tissues should be handled utilising universal precautions - i.e.: with gloves. During autopsy, gloves and eye protections should be used at all times. As above - there is risk from infection beyond HIV. Most other pathogens are heartier and longer-lived than HIV. You would be concerned about hepatitis, and TB amongst many others.

[mike_no]

Jean,

I understand your perspective. However, being PRACTICALLY conservative is what I vouch for.

[JeanClaude]

Point taken.

-JC-

[mike_no]

Prem,

Okay, I'll try to explain -

If your uncle and aunt are infected, that happened because either of them contracted the virus through the media I have mentioned above and then it was transmitted to the opposite through sexual media.

Now, your concern of rest of the family members being infected is void because there can't be a sexual transmission. Secondly, you need to understand that HIV can't spread through burying or touching a corpse. I guessed some one pointed out that contacting / touching a resultant of opportunistic infection could be a potential mode of transmission? I disagree - There is no scope of transmission for the HI Virus whatsoever. But, a bacterial or a fungal infection is possible.

I will reiterate - HIV can only only spread through unprotected penetrative sex with someone who is infected, injection or transfusion of contaminated blood or blood products, donations of semen (artificial insemination), organ transplants taken from someone who is infected, from a mother who is infected to her baby; this can occur during pregnancy, at birth and through breastfeeding, sharing unsterilised injection equipment that has previously been used by someone who is infected.

Now, let's asess some instances;

1. One comes in contact with the infected blood, there is no scope of transmission because the infected blood never came in contact with one's blood stream, it just came in contact with the skin, no transmission media.

2. Body fluid in contact with the eyes - Not a sucessful transmission mechanism again.

3. Consumption of infected fluid (Saliva, semen or blood) - No scope of transmission, the gastric acid in the stomach inhibits the virus. Also, saliva contains sugar proteins that inhibits the virus.

I think, I have covered all possible concerns one would have living with a family member who is of the positive HIV sero-status.

Actually the problem is, I have seen in India, HIV awareness amongst the mass is very minuscule and revolves around a lot of misconception. What adds to the worse is even the doctors around in India are so HIV knowledge deficient. God darn Pani puri wala and HIV bull cr@p? can only happen in India.

Hope this helps.

[mike_no]

...No, there has been absolutely no recorded instance of one contracting HIV through contact with the dead body.