Hep B Nutrition Question

First of all I like to commend all the posters here for a great site. I've been spending some time reading but wanted to get some feedback on some nutritional and supplement questions.

For a background:
I'm a 32 year old male of south asian decent. I have chronic Hep B since birth. Currently I'm on Lamividune thearpy alone.  ALT/AST levels are in the normal range after starting Lamividune 15 months ago. My VL is UD currently.

My question comes about diet. I couldn't find a good answer on what I should and should not be eating? Obviously alcohol is out of the question but is any amount acceptable? Does one or two drinks a week ocause damage or is the consenous that 0 drinks is the way to go.

Is there a suggested diet one should follow that has been shown to benefit those with Hepatitis? Same goes for supplements?  I know these are a lot of questions, but I'm just trying to figure out what is the best way for me to live the longest life I can. :)  Thanks in advance!

R

[cajim]

1.  0 drinks is the way to go.

2.  According to one treatment:

Do not eat:

1.  No smoking, causes lung cancer;
2.  No drinking alcohol, damages liver;
3.  No drinking tea, causes diabetes and high blood pressure;
4.  Rice, sticky rice, wheat, causes diabetes;
5.  Fat, causes hyperlipemia/hyperlipoidemia;
6.  Bean curd, damages liver and kidney via the chemicals used to make bean curd, e.g. magnesium chloride;
7.  Noodles, fried products, whose production involves use of white vitriol;
8.  Sea plants and animals, seas and oceans are rich with many heavy metalic elements which go into sea plants and animals and when consumed go into and stay in our body to damage our liver and kidney.

Instead, eat: millet, yellow rice, barley, buckwheat, corn, broomcorn, highland barley, soybean, green soy bean, horsebean, mung bean, small red bean, pea, potato, sweet potato, yam, chestnut, water caltrop, pignut, sesame, etc. all of which do not make us sick as easily.

[stevenNYer]

Just stay on common sense healthy and low iron diet.  

[zellyf]

My diet is not very restricted.  I drink alcohol infrequently (a few drinks a year).  You will find the topic of alcohol consumption to be quite contentious in the Hep B world.

I try to make good food choices most of the time.  Sweets are my downfall.  They are not particularly liver friendly.

It would be a good idea to avoid shellfish or any raw fish.

Over at the Hep C board they have more opinions on this subject.  Check out gauf's profile for information on supplements.  Good luck.

[stevenNYer]

There's no blanket answer.  There are just too many variables in "diet" and "food" for B Heppers or Heppers in general.

Let's share things that I gave up on.  

1) Beer, was hard and still hard to give up, especially at a summer bbq.
2) Smoking...very easy since I never smoked.
3) Sushi...very hard because I love sushi.  I try to avoid even the "cooked" stuff since there are prepared on the same cutting surface at the raw stuff (cross contamination and H. Pylori galore).  Raw sea food just have too many unfriendly to the liver.
4) Very spicy food, like Indian food..
5) Very greasy food, like Chinese take out.  I even take it easy on the pizza.
6) Half-cooked meat.  I ask for my steak double well done now.
7) Herbal drinks and supplements that I used to experiment on...no longer.
8) Extra strength Tylenol.

[bberry]

here is what i cut down on or stopped completely after i found ouyt i had HBV some 7 months ago

- alcohol :  never had a drink in my life so that wasnt an issue
- smoking: i was a light smoker like 2 cigs a day and i quit it anyway some 4 or 5 years ago. i did smoke hookah though but i stopped that too when i found out i had the virus
- instead of a large cup of coffee daily , now i drink a small cup maybe once a week or maybe 4-6 times a month.
- soda: i loveeeeddddd soda and that was hard for me to quit. well, i didnt but same for coffee i drink a pop  maybe a few times a month and when i do i stick to a warm gingerale soda .
- rarely touch ice cream. and i love ice cream.
very limited eating of fatty food. i feel guilty thereafter even knowing i really didnt have much anyway.

i cant say i am depriving myself of food. i stayed away from most of the food i love . when i do i get a bite or two as a treat .
i cant say i miss the food though. i look at it its just a phase of my life that is in my past and and when i look at my two little children i think to myself  food that will get me sick isnt worth not being able to see the two devils grow before my eyes.

it isnt hard really. by quiting the things that your liver dont like , you're kinda like not giving the virus the things it likes to feed on as well... dont give it a reason to get you and instead make it quit your body and go away.

[Raja510]

Thanks for the great feedback!  I wasn't aware of sushi being an issue, but it makes perfect sense now that I think of it. Damn, that's going to be tough to quit!  I don't smoke, eat healthy and work out almost everyday. I do occasionally have beer or wine but I'm going to work on dropping those too. I have a few questions/comments on what you all wrote.

CAJIM: For #3-5 in your reply, is this the general protocol for all HEP B patients or those with poor health? I'm in good shape, exercise often and am not overweight. My blood pressure, glucose levels and cholesterol (HDL/LDL) levels are all normal. With that said, should I be concerned about removing tea/coffee, and rice as a cause for diabetes? I guess what I'm asking is do those items adversely effect your liver or is it the subsequent hypertension or diabetes from those items that is a problem?

ZELLYF: How are sweets hard on the liver? Is it the over consumption that leads to fatty liver or is it just sweets in general? i.e. If I'm in shape will an occasional dessert effect my liver directly?  Also, any links or info you can direct me to on the topic of drinking and HEP B?  

STEVENNYR:  Spicy food is bad? Damn, that's going to be tough to kick also. How does it effect your liver? Also, how does an undercooked steak effect your liver?  Are these recommendations for a person who already exhibits liver damage or for one that is a carrier but with no damage?

BBERRY:  Why is soda and coffee bad? Is it the artificial sweeteners that are cause for concern?

All: Sorry for the long winded post, but I'm just trying to learn as much as I can. Thanks again for all your comments.

R

[cajim]

Hat off to all my HBV friends who are obviously aware of the need to watch what we put in our mouth to protect our liver.  “Common sense”=known knowledge which includes correct knowledge proven time and again but also incorrect knowledge due to our limited knowledge at the time common sense was formed and certainly does not include new knowledge not yet available at the time our common sense was formed.  Agreed?  For example, how much do we know about what goes into growing the crops, vegetables, fruits, and animals that we eat?  What goes into preserving what we eat so that they can stay in warehouses for years and on shelves for months?  What goes into processing what we eat so that they are in the form and taste that we are used to?  What ways of preparing what we eat cause the toxins to be removed rather than added?  For example, while fruits in general are healthy food, we HBVers actually should avoid fruits like betel nut?  Weakness=the ability to explain away a practice that we know we should not indulge in: “I hardly drink at all, only on rare social occasions when it is my social duty to make my friends happy.”  Well, we may be satisfied with our clever explanation, but down inside our liver still has to do the detoxifying.  Agreed?

To Raja510:  What I quoted was not my creation but that of some Court Doctor 600-700 years ago.  Personally, I think they make sense, but obviously not every one agrees.

[zellyf]

I do not think moderate consumption of alcohol is a problem or something I need to avoid.  So its not a weakness when I do have some.  So, not agreed.

Coffee drinkers, coffee has been shown to be beneficial to the liver.  That doesn't mean you should start or that you should drink gallons of it.  I choose to drink coffee without guilt.  

I do not, however, drink juice or pop (soda).  Well, sometimes a few sips of diet Coke.  After a few years of diet pop I have eliminated artifical sweeteners from my diet for more than liver-related reasons.    

Sugar affects overall digestion and there is a whole thing about its affect on the liver but its way above my pay grade to explain it.  Search "HR" for his thoughtful and interesting posts on diet and the liver.

[bberry]

agree with what Zellyf said. but like i said as i do not deprive myself of all the things that i mentioned, i do try to do away with as much as i could.
soda is becoming like a treat now.. i will drink some gingerale soda..may not taste like Pepsi ( i miss my pepsi ) but its what my body needs not what my heart needs.

coffee is proven to be good for the liver. it detoxifies your body . i limit my drinking coffee like i said to 3-5 cups a month or so..sometimes more sometimes less but i try to drik turkish coffee not american coffee.

overall, there is no specific diet per say for HBV carriers. even doctors dont require a specific diet.. just healthy eating  and liver frienly food is what you need to do. as you see from the above opinions from different posters, everyone seems to have a different view of what is healthy but all are aware of their condition and im sure they diet accordingly .

[zellyf]

If the occasional dessert is a problem then I'm in big trouble. ;)  I don't believe that sugar consumption is related to fatty liver in any way.  

You bring up a good point about a healthy liver w/Hep B and one that's already been damaged.  The problem is, many of us don't really know for sure how much damage is there.  That being said, if you KNEW you had cirrhosis you would really have to eliminate all or nearly all fatty meats, desserts, fried foods, alcohol etc. Right?  But if you have a liver that's holding up pretty well then I'm not sure one needs to be so restrictive.

There is no real research re: Hep B and alcohol.  But there are studies re: Hep C and alcohol and the interpretation of results runs the gamut.  My own GI feels that the occasional drink is okay.  In my case that's going to equal a few drinks a year (although in the past I drank more frequently...probably half a glass to a glass of wine every 2 weeks).  Of course, if you're on treatment it is ill-advised to drink at all.  You can search the Hep C board to see how explosive this alcohol issue can be with heppers.

[FiveGoldenRings]

Cajim, are you guys saying I need to stop eating tuna from a can, whole grain wheat bread, and green tea?

Why is diabetes such a major concern in your tips?  Also, wouldn't cutting out all seafood also keep us from getting adequate Omega3?

[Raja510]

Thanks for your comments and info. It's really helpful...I'm continuing to go through the archieves now.:)

R

[cajim]

What I quoted was a healthy living style designed by Court Doctor Liu some 600-700 years ago to keep all chronic diseases at arm's distance, not just Hep B.

[cajim]

Take a puff of smoke and die of smoking?  No.  Smoking related to lung cancer?  Yes.
Take a sip of wine and die of drinking?  No.  Drinking related to liver damage?  Yes.
Take a sip of tea and die of high blood pressure?  No.  Tea-drinking related to CVA?  Yes.
Take a donut and die of diabeties?  No.  Sweet foods related to diabeties?  Yes.
Take a bite on the fatty food and die of hyperlipemia?  No.  Fats related to hyperlipemia?  Yes.
Lots of sex for one day and die of sex?  No.  Excessive sex related to short lifespan?  Yes.  Look at most of the kings in the world.

The secret: our body's ability to compensate.  Our body never has a say, it always tries to repair the abuse, until one day it can no longer.

[stevenNYer]

Question:  "STEVENNYR:  Spicy food is bad? Damn, that's going to be tough to kick also. How does it effect your liver? Also, how does an undercooked steak effect your liver?  Are these recommendations for a person who already exhibits liver damage or for one that is a carrier but with no damage?"

Everything you eat gets processed by your liver.  A little spice is okay but I don't want to over do it.  Here's an easy example, which do you think it's easier for your liver, cola or water?  As for undercooked steak, usually bacteria and other stuff dies when it 100 degrees.  Undercook meat don't reach that critical temperature.  I think these suggestions are good for all.

As for alcohol, I agreed with Zelly that moderation should be okay, but you really have to understand your condition to make good decisions on alcohol.  I think that if slow drink one beer at a bbq, it should be okay.  I don't think it will really hurt my liver in its current state.  But I just want to be extra safe drink something else.  It makes it easier since I was never a heavy drinker.

[cajim]

Are you implying slow drinking detoxifies more than fast drink?

[stevenNYer]

Yes, if I make that one beer last the whole afternoon and into the evening.  As oppose to downing it in 5 mins.  

[cajim]

I guess you are right, but you must agree that alcohol does not nourish the liver.  The best is still staying away from it.  Hope you agree.

[Mugay]

Please anybody could tell me what i should eat now. Because of Hep B i feel like vomiting after eating. No food can make me feel to eat. Hungry but don't feel like eating. So tired now. Now i am on medication. Doctor told me that it can change to cancer...what i should do? I feel so depressed. Please, anybody could encourge and give me advice? I really need all of your encourage and what specific food i should eat.
I am becoming so thin. I want to gain weight...i really feel sad now. Take care all ... God bless you!

[cajim]

Eat things with as little toxins as possible.

There is a whole system described in Dr. Liu's books (in Chinese).

[howard_roark]

Most of the spices are good for health.

Turmeric, black pepper, coriander powder, green chilli,  cumin poder, and all other indian spices are very good for health.

Drink hot milk with i tsp turmeric powder.

Also, green tea is very good. Phyllanthus tea is even better.

Be careful of herbal medicines, since its unregulated. If taken properly, phyllanthus amarus/niruri is great herb for liver. If you take phyllanthus, make sure that it GMP approved.

My two cents.

[stevenNYer]

"Most of the spices are good for health."

Agreed...original comment is on excessive use.  Over doing it on anything is not good.

2 cents are always welcome....keep giving and soon I will have a dollar...haha.

[cajim]

Is "Most of the spices are good for health." another one of the common sense widsoms?

Green onion, ginger, garlic, fennel, pepper, chili are known to exercibate conditions of common colds, diarrhea, hepatitis, psychosis, diabetes, cancer, nephritis, rheumatism, wintercough and high blood pressure.  How are they good for health?

[zellyf]

Its amazing that mankind has made it this far given its profligate use of spices since ancient times.  And yet we are living longer than ever.  

[stevenNYer]

My common sense wisdom ;)  A little spice makes food taste better...so it make me happy, when I happy, I do things like excercise, which in turn help booster my immune system to fight HepB.

I think it really depends on how you use certain food (and spices).  I mean even water could kill you if you force drink 3 gallons in one short sitting.

[cajim]

According to Court Doctor Liu, what makes us sick is not high-powered obvious poison because it kills us right away.  What makes the difference between a life plagued with chronic this chronic that--a life filled with misery the older we get because we don't get to face the consequences of our stupid acts until later--and a life without illness is exactly the low grade, vague, compensated (at lest for the short term) poison that goes into us over time, maybe a long time in our foods, our spices, etc.

[AsianMale]

There are probably hundreds of hours of accumulated research being shared on this thread. Thanks to all for being so willing to share.

Food seems to be quite a controversial topic among heppers. I've done quite a bit of research myself and just pick out bits that make sense to me. So much contradictory data out there that you have to use your own common sense.

Here's one diet that seems to make sense to me:

The Diet For Liver Disease
"Diet to Harmonize The Liver"

Steamed Vegetables:

Cabbage
Broccoli
Brussel Sprouts
Bok Choy
Kale
Turnip
Dandelion Greens

Afternoon Snacks (permitted as long as there are no severe digestive symptoms ):


Cucumber
Watercress
Alfalfa Sprouts
Pistacio nuts and other nuts that are not rancid
Spirulina (3-6 caps w/ water between breakfast and lunch)

Sweeteners and Sweet Foods (always in moderation):

Stevia
Honey
Organic Maple Syrup
Licorice root
Beets
Strawberry
Peach
Dates
Raisins

Grains:

Quinoa
Rye
Millet
Rice
Buckwheat

Beans:

Black Beans
Pinto Beans
Azuki (aka Aduki) Beans
Mung Beans
Lentils


Herbs and Supplements:

Milk Thistle, Dandelion, Red Clover, Vitamin C, Spirulina

Things to Consider:

Do not eat before bed, but rather give yourself 2-3 hours prior to falling asleep
Get plenty of sleep.

Avoid

Saturated Fats such as: lard, cream, cheese, eggs (w/ cooked yolks) etc.
Hydrogenated fats such as: shortening, margarine, refined and rancid oils
Excesses of nuts and seeds
Chemicals in food and water
Pre-packaged foods with preservatives
Intoxicants such as alcohol, drugs,
Paint and chemical fumes,
Highly processed, refined foods
Coffee
Chocolate
Sugar
Fried Foods

In Summary:

Begin by including a warm breakfast with some of the above grains and steamed foods.  Eat your normal diet throughout the rest of the day. This will begin a new rhythm which will set the stage for a more gentle transition.  We always recommend to not avoid the foods you love for the whole day at first. Make the change fun, and not restricting. Set reasonable goals and always think first about adding foods in, instead of taking food out. Then, hopefully over time, the bad habits will slowly fall away.

Try to refrain from eating after 6:00 pm. This will give your digestive system time to assimilate before bed and allow your body to properly detoxify during the night. Add Milk Thistle Extract in the evening to help protect and rejuvenate the liver.


For the most part, I'm on this diet now. The most difficult part for me is probably not eating after 6:00pm. However, I do find that helps me to go to bed earlier as well.

[AsianMale]

Perhaps a more general but more controversial diet is outlined by The China Study:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Study

Dr. Campbell has shown that diets high in animal protein "are strongly linked to diseases such as heart disease, cancer and Type 2 diabetes". The authors recommend that people eat a whole food, plant-based diet and avoid consuming beef, poultry and milk (or anything containing casein or caseinogen) as a means to minimize and/or reverse the development of chronic disease.

The study also shows the importance of sufficient Vitamin D intake (which you can get through adequate amounts of sunshine) and B12 intake (through supplements).

Mugay, if I were you, I would focus on getting sufficient amounts of Vitamin D and B. Getting 20 minutes of direct sunlight is supposed to help with depression. And when I personally feel down, vitamin B supplements always do the trick for me.

Then I would go through the list of foods in my last post and see which ones don't make me feel like vomiting.

Good luck!

[zellyf]

The day alfalfa sprouts constitutes a "snack" is the day I throw in the towel on eating.

[cajim]

Thank you for the info.

My diet according to Court Doctor Liu's method is a little similar but mostly different.

Let me point out the differences and why:

1.  Vegetables are eaten raw whenever possible not steamed, for vitamins and minerals and fiber;
2.  No snacks at all because most ready to eat snacks are processed foods with chemicals in them;
3.  No sweets at all because they give more bads and goods;
4.  No rice because it gives more starch than is healthy;
5.  Herbs, yes, but four different ones tested using prisoners 600-700 years ago as subjects for their function of increasing our absorption ability;
6.  No meal after 12noon, just fish/beef soup and fruit juice, reason for strong absorption ability, detoxification, etc;
7.  Vitamins always come from vegetables and fruits, not from bottles in Costco because the latter are chemicals.

[zehra15]

I've recently dicovered this site, I was diognosed with HBV two months ago, I'm not on treatment but I watch what I eat, does this ever go away?

[jb7777]

hi all,

Coffee, most vegetables and fruits are good for liver.

Coffee has been proven scientifically to reduce risk of liver cancer.

Reduce high iron diet:
1. Meats of animals with four legs.  (replaced with chicken and fish)
2. Ducks
3. Nuts and cereals
4. Internal organs of animals, including liver, bone, etc

JB

[darkgreen]

Definitely steer clear of high AFLATOXIN foods. This actually includes

TUMERIC and PEANUTS and CORN

Google Aflatoxin and Hepatitis B

Drink heaps of fresh fruit and vegetable juice and organic salads. Stay clear of non-organic chicken, dairy, sugar and processed foods.

Great supplements to check out:
Phyllanthus
Bupleurum Chinese/Bupleureum Falcatum
Peony Root and Bark
Globe Artichoke
Picrorhiza
SAMe ie S-Adenosyl-L-Methionine
St John's Wort
Dandelion Root
Wormwood
Hops
Gentien Root
Chicory Root
Angostura

Phyllanthus (niruri and urinaria are apparently more powerful than amarus) is fantastic. Modern western science hasn't truly understood its effects but it apparently stops or inhibits the Hep B virus from reproducing in your body.

[darkgreen]

p.s. Also Taurine & Liquorice (Root)

[stef2011]

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Hepatitis-C/Research-supported-antifibrotics---do-they-exist/show/346752

here are all the antifibrotic substnces which reverse fibrosis, old post from HR a scentist who posted years ago on this forum

[darkgreen]

Note: Some articles on the internet about ill effects of St John's Wort with interferon:
http://casereports.bmj.com/content/2009/bcr.08.2008.0761.abstract

[stef2011]

we know interferon sides and it is rarely used on hbv

[darkgreen]

If you want to take tumeric, just take curcumin in supplement form since it comes without the aflatoxins...