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Normal vit D levels are associated with hbsag seroclearance.
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Avatar_m_tn
Updated results

Okt. 15, 2013 25(oh) D3 65.8 ng/ml, HBsAg 20406 iu/ml
Nov. 6, 2013 25(oh) D3 97.5 ng/ml, HBsAg 25507 iu/ml

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Avatar_m_tn
keep it high and possibly over 100ng/ml, i usually had high hbsag picks before the big declines

are you hbeag+?your hbsag is very high
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Avatar_m_tn
Based on a test in 2012 my hbeag is negative.

Let's see the following result :)
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Avatar_m_tn
Stefan, do you have new HBsAg result?
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Avatar_m_tn
no i ll have it end of month
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Avatar_m_tn
still waiting to see if i get vitd25oh to 165ng/ml, i had the test today but they take 5-10 days for result in small labs
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Avatar_m_tn
Got new test results.
After decreasing the Vit D3 dose to 5000IU per day in September the 25(OH) level went down to 32ng/ml (was 74 ng/ml)

I also tested 1,25(OH) and it is interesting that it is 82 pg/ml that is 40% above upper reference range. That is unusual for 25(OH) insufficiency. In fact many researches show that 1,25(OH) is not elevated even when 25(OH) reaches 150 ng/ml.

Have you ever checked your 1,25(OH)?

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Avatar_m_tn
Allviruses make  vitd deregulation by the same way, they increase 1,25oh which makes immune suppression and lower vitd25oh which makes immune suppression too
When you increase vitd25oh the 1,25oh decreases, i ve seen this in cfs patients who are full of reactivated viral infections like herpes viruses,cmv e ebv viruses and others

Another extremely interesting study i read lately has found that vitd25oh is active too on immune system and directly.both vit d types can activate same genes and receptors, only few are activated only by 1,25 and 25oh

Of course they found proof of this not just theories, i did not link it because very complicated to understand,they studied gene expression.it is very new study published during this year
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Avatar_m_tn
Did hbsag and hbvdna changed due to this deficent levels ( according to some studies)
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Avatar_m_tn
Hbsag  did not change much, a bit decreased in fact

Date/25(oh)/hbsag/dna
July/58/1590/<20
Aug/64/1426/<20
Sep/70/1891/86
Nov/34/1856/56

My WBC are lower the ref range and ALT is 73. PTH is ok.
Fibroscan is 4.4 (was 4.3kPa 6 month ago) and US is ok.

1,25 (oh) can be generated extra-renal in activated macrophages. It looks like there is a fight in the liver that is why WBC are low, ALT high.

Unfortunate thing is that hbsag does not go down...



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Avatar_m_tn
Why ALT is 73. In my case ALT was normal 10-20 prior to taken d3.
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Avatar_m_tn
some ideas of dr bradstreet about vit d dysregulation/gcmaf and immune system

http://drbradstreet.org/?s=immune+system

the immune system senses macrophages are not being activated so it produces more 1.25D but it won t get any result because there s no way to activate macrophages if nagalase is very elevated

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Avatar_m_tn
Why then WBC are low and alt is elevated? It was all in reff range before taking vit D....
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Avatar_m_tn
Alt is elevated because immune system recognises pathagen in infected hepatocytes and kills them.
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Avatar_m_tn
although about hcv this is interesting, they check gcmaf receptors, vit d levels and response to pegintf on difficult to treat hcv genotypes and as expected best response gcmaf receptors and normal vit d levels give much higher svr

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/hep.25848/full

Vitamin D binding protein gene polymorphisms and baseline vitamin D levels as predictors of antiviral response in chronic hepatitis C
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Avatar_m_tn
full pdf here

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8E77QizhkLQSGJfZF9hNElpRzA/edit?usp=sharing
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Avatar_m_tn
too bad they could not check gcmaf serum levels of patients but the results are clear anyway since difference in svr is from 24 to 65.5%

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Avatar_m_tn
at this point i dont think gcmaf, vit d can work without tdf or pegintf, they probably just aid to an underlying immune activation or to the rescued cd8 after longterm tdf or etv

my sister's results are also not good, very little effect on hbvdna from vit d at 150ng/ml plus mafx5, waiting for hbsag.she s definitely going to start tdf plus vit d3
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Avatar_m_tn
Does d3 + tdf continue to work on you? Did you test hbsag lately does the downward trend hold?
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Avatar_m_tn
i will be testing early december, i want to give it some time

extremely strange vitd25oh is declining despite 50.000iu of d3 daily, last test was only 92ng/ml, i guess immune system is making good use of it......if next test is lower than 90ng/ml i will be forced on 100.000iu daily
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Avatar_m_tn
wow Stefan. Keep going friend.
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Avatar_m_tn
thats quite a bold dose,
How frequently will u check your vit D levels

Virus is using vit D or the immune system ?
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Avatar_m_tn
How frequently will u check your vit D levels

weekly, i also give credit to a lab mistake although extremely difficult to happen, so i ll see by this week results if the trend keeps lowering despite the high dose

Virus is using vit D or the immune system ?

it makes sense immune system is using it but just gussing
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Avatar_m_tn
It would be intereting to know your 1,25 OH too. If it is elevated your body may not want to produce 25-oh, trying to decrease 1,25-oh. So all d3 is just wasted. I would also check PTH for the same reason.
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Avatar_m_tn
Also if 1,25 oh is not elevated it is probably makes no sense to keep low calcium diet. Because it is 1,25 oh who stimulates Ca absorption.
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Avatar_m_tn
i cannot go on normal calcium diet my calcium was 10.1 already at around 80ng/mlon 10.000-15.000iu dose

1.25oh is probably normal, on cfs it gets normal on gcmaf
this test is too expensive and available only in few labs here, i m just interested in keeping fast hbsag decline so i will not check it as long as i keep these results

pth was checked few times in the past, always normal, i think lower range of normal
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Avatar_m_tn
by the way i will keep "no dairies diet" even after hbsag will be cleared for general health, i will include back only organic local cheese from animals in the wild

dairies:
-increased liver cancer risk due to calcium in dairies and especially because dairies are well known to promote cancer in general and full of antibiotics/hormones/pesticides

i prefer to balance by vitd25oh 80-90ng/ml which will allow absorption of good quantity of calcium from all other food

in my country institutions are checking food and most industrial food is poisoned, especially milk and poultry/eggs

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Avatar_m_tn
Everything is poisoned now.
What do you eat then?

Vegetables are also heavily loaded with chemicals, unless you grow it yourself you do not know for sure...

Fish is farmed mostly and is fed the same way as cows...
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Avatar_m_tn
the problem is mostly for milk produced in industrial way

from the tests of italian food it is not all polluted, organic is ok and also among non-organic a good percentage is ok

i eat mostly organic from local sources i know, where i live this is still possible

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Avatar_m_tn
organic brands especcially those from countries like germany, austria and Switzerland are strictly tested and free of pesticides

also many organic italian products are tested free and i saw some produce inside the biggest italian natural parks in uninhabited areas and very very far from towns.
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Avatar_m_tn
Lucky you are, in Russia we do not have this luxury to know what food is pesticided, but as a positive side of it we can buy any food we like :)).
  
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Avatar_m_tn
we have a new law, dont know if european or italian but difficult to be european, that every food must be labelled so that it can be tracked from field/producer to prevent frauds and take away from market contaminated foods
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Avatar_m_tn
of course it will always be a matter of poor or rich, because the organic foods are very expensive, but at least it will be easy to control also all the other foods for the sake of people.
in the end it will be saving money and protecting people's health since treatments are paid by public healthcare
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Avatar_m_tn
Our government seems to have different attitude to the use of public funds, the earlier people die the less funds they will use from pension fund.
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Avatar_m_tn
just an update... i started 7/8 months ago with 5000iu vit D daily..

71 ng is the level coming our form the latest lab..

@stef is that ok or should i go back to 10000iu/day to reach 90/100ng??

thx
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Avatar_m_tn
i think 10.000iu daily is better or 8000iu daily, the target should be around 90-100ng/ml

also the human trials on cancer found an effect on cancer prevention but only on end range of normal, that s to say around 100ng/ml
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Avatar_f_tn
Can lack of vit D from the sun also affect us?

I have noticed I don't feel good when there is no sunlight.  I do take vit d 5000 is that sufficent?
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Avatar_m_tn
only healthy people might get some vit d from sun if there are no chem trails, our hbv infection makes it impossible to get high vit d from sun

as to the dose anybody responds different so there is none, you have to start from 5000 to 10.000iu daily and see how serum levels rise
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Avatar_m_tn
update on vitd25oh serum levels by 50.000iu of d3 daily.one month ago levels werlow maybe lab mistake or who knows because my levels are still low compared to the dose i take.calcium units are mg/dl

02 12 2013 vitd25oh 137ng/ml serum calcium 9.2 ionized calcium 4.8
06 11 2013 vitd25oh   92ng/ml serum calcium 8.3 ionized calcium 4.9
17 10 2013 vitd25oh 115ng/ml serum calcium 9.6 ionized calcium 4.6
09 10 2013 vitd25oh 128ng/ml serum calcium 8.6 ionized calcium 4.9
27 09 2013 vitd25oh   71ng/ml
30 08 2013 vitd25oh 103ng/ml serum calcium 9.2 ionized calcium 4.8

hbsag quant tests results not ready yet

update on my sister, she reached vitd25oh 150ng/ml but she had no response from gcmaf mafx5 and vit d at all on hbvdna and alt, hbsag results not ready yet.
she ll be now on tenofovir and keep vit d around 100-120ng/ml.she will try again stablized vitamin d instead of gcmaf mafx5 but only when fully hbvdna undetectable for sometime, just like i did
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Avatar_m_tn
HbsAg is the most wanted...

Since when do you take 50kiU of D3?
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Avatar_m_tn
11th of november always 50.000iu daily, i m using biotech pill that has 50.000iu

before nov 11th i was using 5000iu pills from d3plus from biotech to a total of 40.000iu daily, but some weeks i took 60.000 or 80.000iu when test results were low

before the 4th of sept i was taking about 20.000-25.000iu daily
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Avatar_m_tn
Stef, are you taking heptech?
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Avatar_m_tn
no not now
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Avatar_m_tn
"I also tested 1,25(OH) and it is interesting that it is 82 pg/ml that is 40% above upper reference range. That is unusual for 25(OH) insufficiency. In fact many researches show that 1,25(OH) is not elevated even when 25(OH) reaches 150 ng/ml."

In chronic disease, the body tries to activate to VDR in order to kill the pathogens, that is why 1,25 is elevated. And pathogens block the VDR in order to survive in our bodies. This is a known chronic disease paradox: low 25 with high 1,25. check mpkb.org to understand.
Very high D3 does not make much sense to me, maybe 10 times less gcmaf with a low dose VDR agonist (according to gcmaf paper, this way gcmaf will be affordable to anybody) will work together and let the body heal itself (over a long period of time)...this way one avoids the high dose VDR agonist ( recommended on the MP) and also the high gcmaf price. But will it really work?

In my case, high D3 leads to even more 1.25 which lowers renin -> low na/k ratio(low vitality, exactly the opposite of healing).
Did people taking high D3 measure their Na and K?...this are very inexpensive tests, to see if it correlates with my results.
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Avatar_m_tn
What are your results?
Actually my Na/K ration doeston correlate with Vit D at all. It is around 30-33 for years. Though I have never checked renin.
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Avatar_m_tn
To my understanding/experience (does not mean I am right) is like this:

I have a low Na/k ratio (1.2) (yours is 30/33 = +-1)...normally should be 2.5, but for chronically disease people is lower.
When I take high D3, I assume renin lowers because 1.25 gets higher, based on this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12122115 1,25-Dihydroxyvitamin D(3) is a negative endocrine regulator of the renin-angiotensin system.). I did not really do the renin test. low renin ->low NA/K ratio: http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/39/5/685

Is your 1.25 level always high and it gets higher when you take D3? ...this is expected for chronically disease people (immune system detects pathogens and converts all D3 in 1.25 in order to activate VDR and defend the body) and correlates with the fact that high 1.25 lowers Na/K ratio (vitality ratio). I will try to lower 1.25 (by taking a VDR agonist, the body does not need to increase 1.25 in order to activate the VDR so 1.25 should get lower (like normal healthy people have)) to see what happens to NA/K, according to my ideas it should rise up (like healthy people have).
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Avatar_m_tn
Sorry I meant my ratio in range from 30 to 33 and it is in mols.
I tested 1,25 oh only once so I can not tell about D3 dependance.
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Avatar_m_tn
"1.25oh is probably normal, on cfs it gets normal on gcmaf"

Could you, please, post a link to articles showing that gcmaf lowers 1.25D?
Thanks!
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Avatar_m_tn
my sister got hbsag result and it stayed stable at 13748iu/ml (previous 12906iu/ml and baseline 20790iu/ml), she also lowered vitd25oh to 103ng/ml

this result is about one month ago, now she is on tdf+10.000iu of d3 to keep serum levels to around 100ng/ml
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Avatar_m_tn
What is the reason of high pulse  in the morning i measure pulse rate about 70-80  but in the eveing it goes upto 90 to 100 some time upto 110,

is it related to HBV or something else or normal range
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Avatar_m_tn
Just have got december results

Date/25(oh)/hbsag/dna/vit d3/1,25 oh
July/58/1590/<20/10000
Aug/64/1426/<20/10000
Sep/70/1891/86/10000
Nov/34/1856/56/5000/82
Dec/48/1907/50/10000/89

Obviously if correlation will vit d3 and hbsAg exists it is negative...

Vit D suplementation did not help to decrease hbsag at least for me...




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Avatar_m_tn
Just have got new results

Date/25(oh)/hbsag/dna/vit d3/1,25 oh
July/58/1590/<20/10000
Aug/64/1426/<20/10000
Sep/70/1891/86/10000
Nov/34/1856/56/5000/82
Dec/48/1907/50/10000/89
Feb/22/1530/68/4000/75

Definately negative correlation vit D and hbsAg ....



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Avatar_m_tn
There seems to be only one available thing that has proven positive hbsag correlation. This thing is called Interferon.
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Avatar_m_tn
Sorry there was a mistake in dna

Date/25(oh)/hbsag/dna/vit d3/1,25 oh
July/58/1590/<20/10000
Aug/64/1426/<20/10000
Sep/70/1891/86/10000
Nov/34/1856/56/5000/82
Dec/48/1907/50/10000/89
Feb/22/1530/<20/4000/75

Definately negative correlation vit D and hbsAg ....

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Avatar_m_tn
http://bionews-tx.com/news/2014/03/06/arrowhead-receives-regulatory-approval-to-begin-phase-2a-trial-of-chronic-hepatitis-b-candidate-arc-520-non-texas-article/

Experimental Drug For Chronic Hepatitis B Cure ARC 520 to Begin Phase 2a Clinical Trial

Hepatitis B has been one of the leading causes of endemics throughout the world, with as many as 350 million cases reported. Among them, around 700,000 to 1.4 million cases have been reported in the USA alone, with an additional 5,000 to 8,000 cases of chronic infection being reported each year. Around one-third of the world’s population gets affected every year, with one million deaths reported annually. Once infected, the most common serological tests include those for the surface antigen of HBV (HBsAg), which is detectable within 1-6 months of infection, and the e antigen (HBeAg), which can be detected within 1-3 months from infection. Entecavir is one of the standard drugs used for treatment in HBV infections.

ARC 520 aims to deliver a functional cure for the HBV infection and restore the adaptive immune system with the help of its RNAi mechanism. It has been tested successfully in mice and chimpanzee models, where it has been shown to reduce the amount of viral DNA, HbsAg and HbeAg by as much as 90 – 95% , lasting up to one month or more.

On completing animal trials, a phase 1 human double blind, placebo controlled, dose escalating trial with a combination of ARC 520 and Entecavir was proposed and successfully executed. Arrowhead’s CEO and President, Dr. Christopher Anzalone, commented that, “We successfully completed enrollment in a Phase 1 clinical study in healthy volunteers with initial data indicating that ARC-520 is generally safe and well tolerated in humans. We will be filing with Hong Kong regulatory authorities this quarter to enable a Phase 2a study in patients with chronic HBV infection.”

The clinical trial will focus on an escalated intravenous dose of ARC 520 with a combination of Entecavir. The escalated dosage would have strengths of 1 mg/ Kg and 2 mg/Kg, and each will be used in cohort studies with 8 people, with 6 receiving ARC 520 and 2 receiving a placebo. The target demographic will be people aged between 15 – 65 years with immune active chronic HBV infection, HBV e antigen negativity, and ongoing Entecavir therapy.

The primary objective of the study will be to check the depth and duration of the decline of viral antigens and products in response to a stronger dose of ARC 520 along with Entecavir. Other factors to be tested through this include pharmacokinetic properties (safety, tolerance of patients) and pharmacodynamic properties (effects of the drug on HBV DNA serum titers and antibodies against HBV surface antigens).
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Avatar_m_tn
Thanks for sharing.

How many years do we have, What do you think?
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Avatar_m_tn
my sister's experience:
vitd25oh>100ng/ml from sept 2013
oct 2013 150ng/ml
dec 2014 103ng/ml
apr 2014  108ng/ml

used gcmaf for about 2 months before starting tdf

started tdf dec 2013, baseline values: hbsag 13700iu/ml, hbvdna 1.600.000iu/ml

13 jan 2014 hbvdna 490iu/ml
08 apr 2014 hbsag 9000iu/ml, hbvdna und

response has been ultrafast on both hbvdna and surprise on hbsag too
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Avatar_m_tn
Thanks for posting it Stef. Excellent, I wish her fast recover and seroconversion,it would be nice advice for our future
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Avatar_m_tn
we will see how it goes by keeping high levels of vit d plus tdf

i actually never thought such a fast response, hbvdna 490iu/ml by about 5 weeks is not usual, and also hbsag decrease on hbeag negative, genotype D is not usual
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Avatar_m_tn
SEVERE 25-HYDROXYVITAMIN D DEFICIENCY IDENTIFIES
HCC PATIENTS WITH A POOR PROGNOSIS
F. Finkelmeier, V. Ko ̈berle, B. Kronenberger, J. Bojunga, S. Zeuzem, J. Trojan, A. Piiper, O. Waidmann. Internal Medicine, University Hospital Frankfurt am Main, Frankfurt am Main, Germany
E-mail: fabian.***@****
Background and Aims: We performed a prospective cohort study to investigate the relation of vitamin D levels to stage and the prognosis of HCC patients.
Methods: 200 patients with the diagnosis of HCC presenting at the Department of Internal Medicine 1 of the Frankfurt University Hospital outpatient clinic were consecutively enrolled into the present study. 25-hydroxyvitamin (25(OH)D3) levels were quantified. Patients were followed until death or last contact. The primary end point was overall survival (OS).
Results: The mean follow-up was 322 days + 342 days with a range of 1–1508 days. 19 patients underwent liver transplantation and 60 (30%) patients died within the observation time. 34.5% patients had 25(OH)D3 levels below 10ng/ml (insufficient), 38% had levels between 10 and 20 ng/ml (deficient) and 27.5% patients had levels above 20ng/ml. 25(OH)D3 levels differed significantly between Child Pugh stages and showed a negative correlation
with the MELD score. Patients with decompensated liver disease had significantly lowered 25(OH)D3 levels. There were significant differences between stages of HCC according to BCLC and CLIP score. Patients with severe 25(OH)D3 deficiency had a significantly shorter OS (hazard ratio (HR) 2.631, (CI) 1.354–5.113, P = 0.004). In a multivariate Cox regression model 25(OH)D3 levels 2 were independently associated with shorter OS. Conclusions: We show that 25(OH)D3 serum levels differ between HCC stages and correlate with the severity of liver insufficiency. 25(OH)D3 levels below 10ng/ml were associated with a higher mortality risk in univariate and multivariate analyses.
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Avatar_m_tn
. I would never know for importance of vit d if it wasn't this forum and you Guys,especially Stef, I began to take vit d only 2 months ago because i saw my levels was 33, and only because of you. Doctor didn't say nothing. We have to be aware of every detail. Thank you
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Avatar_m_tn
this important thread up

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Avatar_m_tn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOfO29rL-gI

dr coimbra and experience on more than 2500 patients treated by high dose vit d3

during this long interview (portuguese plus italian subtitles) i have learnt a lot especially on our resistance to vit d due to our chronic infection, our vdr types, our nagalase and other factors.they use a very simple test available everywhere to see biological activity of vit d and see the level of resistance by PTH

vitamin d suppresses PTH, so as biological activity of vit d increases the pth goes down to low end of normal

when we supplement and increase vitd25oh we can check serum PTH and we have to make it low end of normal, at the point we know we have got around the vit d resistance problem

for example i found out:
my sister with vitd25oh 150ng/ml (max safe level while on no diaries diet) has PTH to 39.3pg/ml (range 11-67).if there was no resistance PTH should have been to very low
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Avatar_m_tn
Hi Stef, are you on combination therapy (peg + tdf) now?
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Avatar_m_tn
my sister's experience:
vitd25oh>100ng/ml from sept 2013
oct 2013 150ng/ml
dec 2014 103ng/ml
apr 2014  108ng/ml

used gcmaf for about 2 months before starting tdf and then stopped when started tdf

baseline: hbsag 13700iu/ml, hbvdna 1.600.000iu/ml
dec 2013 tdf+vit d3
13 jan 2014 hbvdna 490iu/ml
08 apr 2014 hbsag 9000iu/ml, hbvdna und
19 may 2014 hbsag 7000iu/ml, hbvdna und

hbsag keeps going down, vitamind25oh is kept 100-150ng/ml, calcium stays low, pth doesn t go down but stays stable at mid normal levels
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Avatar_m_tn
very good, impressive results :)

What is your sister's HBeAg status?
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Avatar_m_tn
negative
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Avatar_m_tn
Thank you for the answer.
In this case the results are even more impressive. :)
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Avatar_m_tn
Thanks for the update
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Avatar_m_tn
How much Vit D does she take daily? 10,000 iu??
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Avatar_m_tn
it is not the dose but keeping vitd25oh between 100-150ng/ml, for her 10.000-15.000iu daily are enough to reach this.
i need 20.000iu daily for example just to keep the levels and loading dose of 50.000iu daily to reach 150ng/ml
lately i lowered to 10.000iu daily thinking it would keep the levels, in few months vitd25oh got back to 90ng/ml...

so you have to find your dose to get to high levels and monitor pth too, to see if vit d is biologically active.both me and my sister have vit d interference and resistance since pth does not get to low levels despite such high values of vitd25oh
when vit d is very high pth must go to very low normal range if the vit in your blood is biologically active, some must care to keep low norm levels but not undetectable.low norm range pth is healthy but undetectable is not good
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Avatar_m_tn
Hi Stef
Below is my latest test reports

Date             HBSAG       HBV DNA   Anti HEV Ig M     Vit D25OH
17-Feb-14         944         3190                Not done                  16
22-Apr-14          831         364                 10.71                       124
26-Sept -14        674        1080                  1.80                       83

Hbsag is in IU/ML ( Quantitative ) and HBV DNA also in IU/ML & D25 in ng/ml

Now Iam only on Vit D 20000 IU . No other medicnes from last six month.

Will Hbsag levels go further down from here on .

Thanks
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Avatar_m_tn
If you can convince your doctor to give you PegInterfron then you might have a chance to clear since your HBSAG is <1000 iu/ml
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Avatar_m_tn
Your vitd25oh 124ng/ml looks the most effective on hbvdna, get vitd25oh to 150ng/ml and pth 10pg/ml and lets see if the trend of hbsag keeps the decline

of course nodiaries,2.5l of water and calcium in urine 24hrs test every 3 months
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