Alternative treatments?

[fretboard]

There are alot of questions in this area about herbs like Milk Thistle and other herbs, sometimes for ppl who were non-responders or ppl who are putting off tx for one reason or another.  I just found out thru my job that there is one tx that is being used to tx HepC and it's not approved by the fda and the chamber is to be administered by a medical doctor only.  There are so many ppl who are taking advantage of the HepC community to make a fast buck, so I wanted to let you all know.  The tx I'm referring to is the Hyperbaric Chamber, it's an oxygen chamber.  It's not approved to be used for HepC, it is approved for some other tx's but not ours.  As far as herbs like Milk Thistle goes, that works like a mild diuretic.  The thing about using diuretics is that they deplete your system of necessary supplements like potassium or electrolytes.  So if you take an herb that is a diuretic, than maybe you would want to take another herb to supplement the depletion of whatever that specific herb takes from your system.  It seems to me that if you are a non-responder or someone who wants to take the herbal route, that a better idea would be to see your doctor and ask about taking a mild diuretic.  That way you will be prescribed a supplement like potassium to counteract the depletion caused by diuretics.  Also, if you suffer from swelling in your ankles or feet it would also help with that.  If you don't swell then maybe the action of making you go to relieve yourself more often will help in that, it gets your liver to function more often than normal.  Ask your doctor what he thinks about what I just said.  Does anyone know of a reason why it wouldn't be a good idea to take a diuretic?  I have a list of herbals that you are not supposed to take when you have HepC, I can't locate it right now cause I gots to get off to work, but if I can find it later I will post it.  Also, keep in mind that none of these so-called alternative tx's will clear the HepC virus.  You need the Peg and Ribavirin to do that, it's the only combo that will help you to reach SVR.  God Bless

[DragonTamer]

I am a certified Nutritionist/herbalist. When I found out I had Hep C.... first i flipped out...then got serious about getting rid of it.  I wanted to  add what I have learned and been told by alternative and alopathic doctors, regarding the Milk Thistle, which I took when I did a monthly detox, before I stopped eating meat completely and now eat only organic.  It is a wonderful Liver detox herb, IF you are healthy. The problem with taking any of the detox herbs, dandelion, ect.... is, as we all know, everything is processed through our liver....including our tx drugs. Milk Thistle ect...excelerates any substance to be disgarded from our liver...(like a diuretic) including our meds, which we want to stay in our system as long as possible to do the job.  Again I have talked to naturapaths and alopathic doctors about this and they all agree.  When on treatment Milk thistle and other supp are not the best idea....also because of the other ingredients which could be in the supplements (fillers)  Especially when you think of what we are paying for our meds....it could be likened to pouring them down the drain too fast!

As for Milk Thistle to help an ailing or over taxed Liver, due to too many heavy metals, chemicals, bad food laden with preservatives ect... (without having Hep C in the mix),  No problem! And a good idea..it is a great herb used for years in Europe with great results. But again we don't want anything flushing out our treatment drugs too fast before they have done the job.
Makes sense to me...    Just sharing what I have learned and been told.

I know there are many "commercials on line for Milk Thistle and (Ultra) helping  Hep C and I also think they are very irresponsible...who ever said "they are just trying to make a buck" I agree completely!  We all on Tx have to be so careful of what we put into our bodies now so it does not diminish the drugs or interfere with them.  


Hope your days are good to you all!!!
D.T

[fretboard]

Well TY, I needed that and I guess I'll start taking it again as I haven't been feeling that good.  I've been feeling like I'm full or heavy, could be from that NP telling me that I  should lose some weight. lol  Hope you're doing well friend.  God Bless

[Facta_non_verba]

As far as Hep C goes, I don't know of any reason why a diuretic and potassium supplement would be a bad idea. World wide that combination is used extensively to treat high blood pressure and other diseases related to the circulatory system. Lasix (furosemide) is what is known as a loop diuretic, named for the part of the kidney it works on. At the same time it makes your kidney get rid of excess sodium and water (which is why you have to pee so much), it makes the kidney waste potassium. That's the reason potassium supplements are used.

I did a quick search of medline and found only 4 articles related to Hep C and furosemide. All had to do with using furosemide to treat kidney disease in Hep C patients.

Hope that makes sense.

Jeff
Facta non Verba

[fretboard]

Does anyone know of a reason why it wouldn't be a good idea to take a diuretic?  I am prescribed potassium along with lasix, the generic name is alot longer.  I hardly ever take it as it makes me go to the bathroom so much.  God Bless  

[Marc1955]

Fretboard – I'm not sure you're right about milk thistle. Its active ingredient, Sylmarin, has long been thought to have restorative effects on liver function. For example, it is used to combat mushroom poisoning. It is more than a diuretic.

That being said, I don't think that research is bearing out that it can affect the course of HEP C although there was a recent study that suggested it could alleviate symptoms and improve the quality of life.

[mikesimon]

I know this is not the milk thistle we take but I did find it interesting.

BACKGROUND & AIMS: Silibinin (SIL) is the main flavonoid extracted from milk thistle (Silibum marianum G). Although widely used for treatment of liver diseases, the efficacy of the oral preparation is unclear. Substantially higher doses can be administered intravenously. METHODS: Pedigreed nonresponders to full-dose pegylated (Peg)-interferon (IFN)/ribavirin (RBV) (PegIFN/RBV) were studied. First, we investigated whether lowering oxidative stress by pretreating 16 patients with intravenous (IV) 10 mg/kg SIL (Legalon Sil; Madaus, Köln, Germany) for 7 days can improve the sensitivity to IFN. In a further dose-finding study, 20 patients received 5, 10, 15, or 20 mg/kg/day silibinin for 14 days. Viral load was determined daily. In both protocols, 180 mug/wk pegIFNalpha-2a and 1-1.2 g/day ribavirin were started on day 8. RESULTS: Unexpectedly, in the first study, HCV RNA declined (baseline: 6.59 +/- 0.53 day 8: 5.26 +/- 0.81 log IU/mL [mean +/- SD], P < .001) on SIL monotherapy but increased again in most patients in spite of PegIFN/RBV after the infusion period. The viral load decrease was dose dependent (log drop after 7 days SIL monotherapy: 0.55 +/- 0.5 [5 mg/kg, n = 3], 1.41 +/- 0.59 [10 mg/kg, n = 19], 2.11 +/- 1.34 [15 mg/kg, n = 5], and 3.02 +/- 1.01 [20 mg/kg, n = 9]; P < .001). After combined SIL/PegIFN/RBV treatment, HCV RNA further decreased (log drop after 14 days: 1.63 +/- 0.78 [5 mg/kg, n = 3], 4.16 +/- 1.28 [10 mg/kg, n = 3], 3.69 +/- 1.29 [15 mg/kg. n = 5], and 4.85 +/- 0.89 [20 mg/kg, n = 9]; P < .001) and became undetectable in 3 and 4 patients on 15 and 20 mg/kg SIL (50%), respectively, at week 12. Beside mild gastrointestinal symptomsm, IV SIL monotherapy was well tolerated. CONCLUSIONS: IV SIL is well tolerated and shows a substantial antiviral effect against HCV in nonresponders.