Aa
Branched chain amino acid
On a recommendation I read on here that taking BCAA(branched chain amino acid) was beneficial for cirrhosis.I started taking them yeaterday and I did have some discomfort in my abdomen and still am.Does anybody have experience with BCAA that can tell me if I should follow the dosage that is recommended on the package and is this proven that it does help people with cirrhosis.My relapse weighs heavy on my mind and you want to try and do something to help yourself and I want to know if I am helping or hurting myself.
Thanks Glen
Thanks Glen
Hey there! Thanks so much for your information. It made me feel so much better in what I am trying to do....get healthy :)
Thank again,
Dee
Thank again,
Dee
I know this is an old thread and GP7852 may not be interested anymore, but I was appalled by one-sidedness of Jimmy's post. BCAA are essential animo acids. As Dee said, they are plentiful in whey protein and are a part of all animal protein. That suggestion from WebMD that one should avoid driving after taking them is laughable. Tell this to bodybuilders who take protein mixes with high BCAA content on a regular basis.
I take BCAAs and swear by them. ..though I don't have cirrhosis. Recently I read a paper on regulators of the immune response. There it was mentioned that when BCAAs get depleted, the immunity steers toward tolerance (meaning, it will ignore some infections allowing them to proliferate). And excessively tolerant immune system, as if I were on steroids, was precisely my problem, especially after 12 weeks of Sovaldi+rivabiiirin (I was not taking BCAAs at the time though now I know I should have).
It is also my impression that if one is helped by LDN (low dose naltrexone) one would be helped by BCAAs as well. They steer the immune system in the same direction.
And so yes, returning to WebMD interactions with, say, steroids, BCAAs oppose the action of steroids. Steroids make the immune system ignore obvious problems, BCAAs make it address them. ..though this may not be a good idea for people with transplants or with over-reactive immune system.
And so the discomfort GP7852 felt after taking BCAAs could be a symptom of his immunity turning its attention to something it has been ignoring till now.
I take BCAAs and swear by them. ..though I don't have cirrhosis. Recently I read a paper on regulators of the immune response. There it was mentioned that when BCAAs get depleted, the immunity steers toward tolerance (meaning, it will ignore some infections allowing them to proliferate). And excessively tolerant immune system, as if I were on steroids, was precisely my problem, especially after 12 weeks of Sovaldi+rivabiiirin (I was not taking BCAAs at the time though now I know I should have).
It is also my impression that if one is helped by LDN (low dose naltrexone) one would be helped by BCAAs as well. They steer the immune system in the same direction.
And so yes, returning to WebMD interactions with, say, steroids, BCAAs oppose the action of steroids. Steroids make the immune system ignore obvious problems, BCAAs make it address them. ..though this may not be a good idea for people with transplants or with over-reactive immune system.
And so the discomfort GP7852 felt after taking BCAAs could be a symptom of his immunity turning its attention to something it has been ignoring till now.
Hello, I am not sure how I overlooked this thread but wanted to thank you for this information. I have been using a whey protein drink every morning for a year. It makes me feel much better. From what I understand there are BCAA's in red meat. Since I don't eat red meat, just a little chicken or fish; I thought this would help me fight fatigue, muscle atrophy etc. Other members on here, OrphanedHawk and Crossroads had first introduced me to the idea of taking protein powder with fruits and veggies. As time went on I read that BCAA's could help the liver. I will probably say this backwards but I thought that protein was made of BCAA's.
Thank you again, Dee
Thank you again, Dee
Everyone should always consult with their doctor, and we all have serious medical conditions, but if you ask your doctor about BCAAs for HE he will probably tell you its okay. Thats because, as I pointed out, BCAAs are now considered Standard-OF-Care for cirrhotics. So if you are considering it by all means ask your doctor. But just because your doctor has not recommended them on his own does not mean that he will say it is a bad idea.
Looking at possible interactions for nutrients without assessing their value is like doing the same thing for drugs, most drugs have side-effects, but if you assess the need for the drug you might conclude that it is worth the side effects. In this case, the specific warnings on this interactions tab refer to specific conditions that most people on the website probably do not have. However, a lot of people on this website have HCV and are in danger of HE and cirrhosis. In that context an honest portrayal of BCAAs for that intended purpose is certainly good and helpful information.
We all have a responsibility not to spread disinformation.
Looking at possible interactions for nutrients without assessing their value is like doing the same thing for drugs, most drugs have side-effects, but if you assess the need for the drug you might conclude that it is worth the side effects. In this case, the specific warnings on this interactions tab refer to specific conditions that most people on the website probably do not have. However, a lot of people on this website have HCV and are in danger of HE and cirrhosis. In that context an honest portrayal of BCAAs for that intended purpose is certainly good and helpful information.
We all have a responsibility not to spread disinformation.
"I just didn't want anyone to be scared away from something that might help them due to incomplete info!"
My husband suffers from serious episodes of HE. He takes lactulose and Xifaxin which are prescribed by his doctor. (Xifaxin has been stopped during his Hep C treatment but I anticipate he will start it again post treatment).
I appreciate the information that the members provide here with the intention of helping others but I think we all need to be very careful about giving what amounts to as medical advice for people who have a very serious, maybe even life threatening, medical condition. At the very least I think one should advise caution and consultation with their own doctor before trying something new which may interfere with the doctor's treatment of the patient.
Nan
My husband suffers from serious episodes of HE. He takes lactulose and Xifaxin which are prescribed by his doctor. (Xifaxin has been stopped during his Hep C treatment but I anticipate he will start it again post treatment).
I appreciate the information that the members provide here with the intention of helping others but I think we all need to be very careful about giving what amounts to as medical advice for people who have a very serious, maybe even life threatening, medical condition. At the very least I think one should advise caution and consultation with their own doctor before trying something new which may interfere with the doctor's treatment of the patient.
Nan
Jimmy, I don't mean to be critical but I think your browser got stuck on the interactions tab on that webMD page. The other tabs on the same webMD page are pretty definitive about BCAA use for HE in cirrhosis patients.
These include the Overview tab:
"Branched-chain amino acids are used to treat ... brain conditions due to liver disease (chronic hepatic encephalopathy, latent hepatic encephalopathy), a movement disorder called tardive dyskinesia, a genetic disease called McArdle's disease, a disease called spinocerebellar degeneration, and poor appetite in elderly kidney failure patients and cancer patients. Branched-chain amino acids are also used to help slow muscle wasting in people who are confined to bed....Healthcare providers give branched-chain amino acids intravenously (by IV) for sudden brain swelling due to liver disease (acute hepatic encephalopathy) and also when the body has been under extreme stress, for example after serious injury or widespread infection.
On the next tab, Uses, it says,
"Likely Effective for:
Improving muscle control and mental function in people with advanced liver disease (latent hepatic encephalopathy).
Reducing muscle breakdown during exercise.
Decreasing symptoms associated with mania.
Reducing movements associated with tardive dyskinesia, a disorder associated with the use of antipsychotic medications.
Reducing loss of appetite and improving nutrition in elderly patients on hemodialysis.
On the Dosing tab it says this:
"The following doses have been studied in scientific research:
BY MOUTH:
For a brain condition due to liver disease (hepatic encephalopathy): 240 mg/kg/day up to 25 grams of branched-chain amino acids.
For mania: a 60 gram branched-chain amino acid drink containing valine, isoleucine, and leucine in a ratio of 3:3:4 every morning for 7 days.
For tardive dyskinesia: a branched-chain amino acid drink containing valine, isoleucine, and leucine at a dose of 222 mg/kg taken three times daily for 3 weeks.
For anorexia and improving overall nutrition in elderly malnourished hemodialysis patients: granules of branched-chain amino acids consisting of valine, leucine, and isoleucine at a dose of 4 grams taken three times daily.
The estimated average requirement (EAR) of branched-chain amino acids is 68 mg/kg/day (leucine 34 mg, isoleucine 15 mg, valine 19 mg) for adults. However, some researchers think earlier testing methods may have underestimated this requirement and that the requirement is really about 144 mg/kg/day. Other researchers think the EARs for children are also low. EARs for branched-chain amino acids for children are: ages 7-12 months, 134 mg/kg/day; 1-3 years, 98 mg/kg/day; 4-8 years, 81 mg/kg/day; boys 9-13 years, 81 mg/kg/day; girls 9-13 years, 77 mg/kg/day; boys 14-18 years, 77 mg/kg/day; girls 14-18 years, 71 mg/kg/day.
INTRAVENOUS (IV):
Healthcare providers give branched-chain amino acids intravenously (by IV) for brain enlargement due to liver disease (hepatic encephalopathy)."
So, the thing is, looking at the interactions tab is important in context, but if someone is suffering from HE cause by cirrhosis, and not any of the specific conditions mentioned on the interactions tab, BCAAs are Standard-of-Care therapy, not some snake oil scheme.
I just didn't want anyone to be scared away from something that might help them due to incomplete info!
Best of luck!
MIke
These include the Overview tab:
"Branched-chain amino acids are used to treat ... brain conditions due to liver disease (chronic hepatic encephalopathy, latent hepatic encephalopathy), a movement disorder called tardive dyskinesia, a genetic disease called McArdle's disease, a disease called spinocerebellar degeneration, and poor appetite in elderly kidney failure patients and cancer patients. Branched-chain amino acids are also used to help slow muscle wasting in people who are confined to bed....Healthcare providers give branched-chain amino acids intravenously (by IV) for sudden brain swelling due to liver disease (acute hepatic encephalopathy) and also when the body has been under extreme stress, for example after serious injury or widespread infection.
On the next tab, Uses, it says,
"Likely Effective for:
Improving muscle control and mental function in people with advanced liver disease (latent hepatic encephalopathy).
Reducing muscle breakdown during exercise.
Decreasing symptoms associated with mania.
Reducing movements associated with tardive dyskinesia, a disorder associated with the use of antipsychotic medications.
Reducing loss of appetite and improving nutrition in elderly patients on hemodialysis.
On the Dosing tab it says this:
"The following doses have been studied in scientific research:
BY MOUTH:
For a brain condition due to liver disease (hepatic encephalopathy): 240 mg/kg/day up to 25 grams of branched-chain amino acids.
For mania: a 60 gram branched-chain amino acid drink containing valine, isoleucine, and leucine in a ratio of 3:3:4 every morning for 7 days.
For tardive dyskinesia: a branched-chain amino acid drink containing valine, isoleucine, and leucine at a dose of 222 mg/kg taken three times daily for 3 weeks.
For anorexia and improving overall nutrition in elderly malnourished hemodialysis patients: granules of branched-chain amino acids consisting of valine, leucine, and isoleucine at a dose of 4 grams taken three times daily.
The estimated average requirement (EAR) of branched-chain amino acids is 68 mg/kg/day (leucine 34 mg, isoleucine 15 mg, valine 19 mg) for adults. However, some researchers think earlier testing methods may have underestimated this requirement and that the requirement is really about 144 mg/kg/day. Other researchers think the EARs for children are also low. EARs for branched-chain amino acids for children are: ages 7-12 months, 134 mg/kg/day; 1-3 years, 98 mg/kg/day; 4-8 years, 81 mg/kg/day; boys 9-13 years, 81 mg/kg/day; girls 9-13 years, 77 mg/kg/day; boys 14-18 years, 77 mg/kg/day; girls 14-18 years, 71 mg/kg/day.
INTRAVENOUS (IV):
Healthcare providers give branched-chain amino acids intravenously (by IV) for brain enlargement due to liver disease (hepatic encephalopathy)."
So, the thing is, looking at the interactions tab is important in context, but if someone is suffering from HE cause by cirrhosis, and not any of the specific conditions mentioned on the interactions tab, BCAAs are Standard-of-Care therapy, not some snake oil scheme.
I just didn't want anyone to be scared away from something that might help them due to incomplete info!
Best of luck!
MIke
Jimmy-you have scared me half to death-I am running back to GNC to return these things.Thanks for the info
Glen
Glen
I agree with nan535 consult with your doctor before taking supplements and herbs.
Go to
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/default.aspx
enter - Branched-chain amino acids
Side Effects
Branched-chain amino acids appear to be safe for most people when used for up to 6 months. Some side effects are known to occur, such as fatigue and loss of coordination. Branched-chain amino acids should be used cautiously before or during activities where performance depends on motor coordination, such as driving.
Special Precautions & Warnings:
Pregnancy and breast-feeding: Not enough is known about the use of branched-chain amino acids during pregnancy and breast-feeding. Stay on the safe side and avoid use.
Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS, Lou Gehrig's disease): The use of branched-chain amino acids has been linked with lung failure and higher death rates when used in patients with ALS. If you have ALS, don’t use branched-chain amino acids until more is known.
Branched-chain ketoaciduria: Seizures and severe mental and physical retardation can result if intake of branched-chain amino acids is increased. Don’t use branched-chain amino acids if you have this condition.
Chronic alcoholism: Dietary use of branched-chain amino acids in alcoholics has been associated with liver disease leading to brain damage (hepatic encephalopathy).
Low blood sugar in infants: Intake of one of the branched-chain amino acids, leucine, has been reported to lower blood sugar in infants with a condition called idiopathic hypoglycemia. This term means they have low blood sugar, but the cause is unknown. Some research suggests leucine causes the pancreas to release insulin, and this lowers blood sugar.
Surgery: Branched-chain amino acids might affect blood sugar levels, and this might interfere with blood sugar control during and after surgery. Stop using branched-chain amino acids at least 2 weeks before a scheduled surgery.
Interactions.
Moderate Interaction Be cautious with this combination
Levodopa interacts with BRANCHED-CHAIN AMINO ACIDS
Branched-chain amino acids might decrease how much levodopa the body absorbs. By decreasing how much levodopa the body absorbs, branched-chain amino acids might decrease the effectiveness of levodopa. Do not take branched-chain amino acids and levodopa at the same time.
Medications for diabetes (Antidiabetes drugs) interacts with BRANCHED-CHAIN AMINO ACIDS
Branched-chain amino acids might decrease blood sugar. Diabetes medications are also used to lower blood sugar. Taking branched-chain amino acids along with diabetes medications might cause your blood sugar to go too low. Monitor your blood sugar closely. The dose of your diabetes medication might need to be changed.
Some medications used for diabetes include glimepiride (Amaryl), glyburide (DiaBeta, Glynase PresTab, Micronase), insulin, pioglitazone (Actos), rosiglitazone (Avandia), chlorpropamide (Diabinese), glipizide (Glucotrol), tolbutamide (Orinase), and others.
Minor Interaction Be watchful with this combination
Diazoxide (Hyperstat, Proglycem) interacts with BRANCHED-CHAIN AMINO ACIDS
Branched-chain amino acids are used to help make proteins in the body. Taking Diazoxide along with branched-chain amino acids might decrease the effects of branched-chain amino acids on proteins. More information is needed about this interaction.
Medications for inflammation (Corticosteroids) interacts with BRANCHED-CHAIN AMINO ACIDS
Branched-chain amino acids are used to help make proteins in the body. Taking drugs called glucocorticoids along with branched-chain amino acids might decrease the effects of branched-chain amino acids on proteins. More information is needed about this interaction.
Thyroid hormone interacts with BRANCHED-CHAIN AMINO ACIDS
Branched-chain amino acids help the body make proteins. Some thyroid hormone medications can decrease how fast the body breaks down branched-chain amino acids. However, more information is needed to know the significance of this interaction.
Go to
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/default.aspx
enter - Branched-chain amino acids
Side Effects
Branched-chain amino acids appear to be safe for most people when used for up to 6 months. Some side effects are known to occur, such as fatigue and loss of coordination. Branched-chain amino acids should be used cautiously before or during activities where performance depends on motor coordination, such as driving.
Special Precautions & Warnings:
Pregnancy and breast-feeding: Not enough is known about the use of branched-chain amino acids during pregnancy and breast-feeding. Stay on the safe side and avoid use.
Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS, Lou Gehrig's disease): The use of branched-chain amino acids has been linked with lung failure and higher death rates when used in patients with ALS. If you have ALS, don’t use branched-chain amino acids until more is known.
Branched-chain ketoaciduria: Seizures and severe mental and physical retardation can result if intake of branched-chain amino acids is increased. Don’t use branched-chain amino acids if you have this condition.
Chronic alcoholism: Dietary use of branched-chain amino acids in alcoholics has been associated with liver disease leading to brain damage (hepatic encephalopathy).
Low blood sugar in infants: Intake of one of the branched-chain amino acids, leucine, has been reported to lower blood sugar in infants with a condition called idiopathic hypoglycemia. This term means they have low blood sugar, but the cause is unknown. Some research suggests leucine causes the pancreas to release insulin, and this lowers blood sugar.
Surgery: Branched-chain amino acids might affect blood sugar levels, and this might interfere with blood sugar control during and after surgery. Stop using branched-chain amino acids at least 2 weeks before a scheduled surgery.
Interactions.
Moderate Interaction Be cautious with this combination
Levodopa interacts with BRANCHED-CHAIN AMINO ACIDS
Branched-chain amino acids might decrease how much levodopa the body absorbs. By decreasing how much levodopa the body absorbs, branched-chain amino acids might decrease the effectiveness of levodopa. Do not take branched-chain amino acids and levodopa at the same time.
Medications for diabetes (Antidiabetes drugs) interacts with BRANCHED-CHAIN AMINO ACIDS
Branched-chain amino acids might decrease blood sugar. Diabetes medications are also used to lower blood sugar. Taking branched-chain amino acids along with diabetes medications might cause your blood sugar to go too low. Monitor your blood sugar closely. The dose of your diabetes medication might need to be changed.
Some medications used for diabetes include glimepiride (Amaryl), glyburide (DiaBeta, Glynase PresTab, Micronase), insulin, pioglitazone (Actos), rosiglitazone (Avandia), chlorpropamide (Diabinese), glipizide (Glucotrol), tolbutamide (Orinase), and others.
Minor Interaction Be watchful with this combination
Diazoxide (Hyperstat, Proglycem) interacts with BRANCHED-CHAIN AMINO ACIDS
Branched-chain amino acids are used to help make proteins in the body. Taking Diazoxide along with branched-chain amino acids might decrease the effects of branched-chain amino acids on proteins. More information is needed about this interaction.
Medications for inflammation (Corticosteroids) interacts with BRANCHED-CHAIN AMINO ACIDS
Branched-chain amino acids are used to help make proteins in the body. Taking drugs called glucocorticoids along with branched-chain amino acids might decrease the effects of branched-chain amino acids on proteins. More information is needed about this interaction.
Thyroid hormone interacts with BRANCHED-CHAIN AMINO ACIDS
Branched-chain amino acids help the body make proteins. Some thyroid hormone medications can decrease how fast the body breaks down branched-chain amino acids. However, more information is needed to know the significance of this interaction.
Listen to your body. Everyone is different. What may be good for one person may not be good for you. Having cirrhosis, I would be very careful with what you put in your body. I know you are upset with not reaching SVR, but the new treatments are not that far off. Trust me. As bad as things are for you, they can be far worse. Be patient - talk to your doctor and find out what the new action plan is. That should make you feel better.
Hang in there.
Nan
Hang in there.
Nan
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