Aa
Done-completed treatment
Hello all, I just took my last shot 24/24. I assume I stay on the Riba for another 5 to 7 days?
Happy Holidays
Happy Holidays
Congrats on your last shot! Celebrate Christmas with thanks that you finished!
Sincerely,
Dana
Sincerely,
Dana
Hey, any chance at hiring in 1 or 2 of them extrnal forces for say $50 bucks an hour?? Do they take play lists? Any cute ones? Where do I sign out? (Assume I'd sign back in at the end - right).
so glad to hear you've taken your last shot....im on week 37/48 so only 11 to go and i cannot wait! thanks for sharing your news and looking forward to more good news from you in a couple months!
michelle
michelle
you and your weather forecasts..... maybe that's the mystery of the nickname.... short for "Foresee good weather and plan to rub the noses of my friends from the North in it". Hells Bells, it's wet damp, dreary, and dismal here. But the cool weather seems to have my hemorrhoids shrinking, so that's a positive....
Anyway, your statement "...the docs were blown away..." rather supports my point, I think. The point being that while reversal is not uncommon, it's not a sure thing. I'm optimistic for some level of reversal for me; my docs project 50% chance for 2 grades, ISHAK. Hell, even if I don't get the reversal, I suppose I should chug along just fine indefinitely anyway (assuming SVR, knock knockwurst).
For the sake of balance, I just wanted to open a dialog about reversal not being a sure thing. I've seen these things take off on a life of their own, where something gets repeated a few too many times and becomes accepted as fact.
Sorry to hear about your sis, glad she's doing well now. Hey, maybe I need to get some notes from you on the liver healthy diet, but you'd probably cut me off on the bon-bons and salami, huh?
Anyway, your statement "...the docs were blown away..." rather supports my point, I think. The point being that while reversal is not uncommon, it's not a sure thing. I'm optimistic for some level of reversal for me; my docs project 50% chance for 2 grades, ISHAK. Hell, even if I don't get the reversal, I suppose I should chug along just fine indefinitely anyway (assuming SVR, knock knockwurst).
For the sake of balance, I just wanted to open a dialog about reversal not being a sure thing. I've seen these things take off on a life of their own, where something gets repeated a few too many times and becomes accepted as fact.
Sorry to hear about your sis, glad she's doing well now. Hey, maybe I need to get some notes from you on the liver healthy diet, but you'd probably cut me off on the bon-bons and salami, huh?
I take your point, or points, and largely agree with what you are espousing, or disputing I should say...but I don't think youre giving the reversal thing enough juice. My younger sister (who doesn't have hep) had a horrible drug and alcohol addiction that brought her to liver and kidney shut down, she almost died ...and was in the ICU for four months. She had 3rd stage cirrhosis, which aint good. All she did was stay sober for 3 years, and eat a very friendly liver diet and exercise...she has really helped her liver tremendously the doc says...the docs were blown away...it did regenerate in some areas (the areas that werent' completely dead tissue I should think) just because she started feeding it what it wanted and stopped the poison onslaught. Hep doc said it really varies as to how much it can regenerate, etc. from person to person. There are just huge mysteries out there that the experts can only speculate on with a lot of educated guessing...I think you could say that about most medical science.
I also agree that biopsy is by no means an exact science, particularly in the low grade stages where it's not so "cut and dry" (sorry I gotta put a pun in here somewhere, I'm addicted) many docs will call 1s and 2's differently, up or down. Saw a lot of great studies on this out of University of Chicago I think?, you prob saw the same ones. That can account for some people "with reversal" but not all...Anyway, it's 82 down here, you stuck in a fog bank somewhere????
I also agree that biopsy is by no means an exact science, particularly in the low grade stages where it's not so "cut and dry" (sorry I gotta put a pun in here somewhere, I'm addicted) many docs will call 1s and 2's differently, up or down. Saw a lot of great studies on this out of University of Chicago I think?, you prob saw the same ones. That can account for some people "with reversal" but not all...Anyway, it's 82 down here, you stuck in a fog bank somewhere????
yeah, and it's always funny how people can take something out of context, and it's like that game "Telephone" by the time it gets to the last post it's all twisted up! I do it too...It's understandable to a certain extent, we're busy and tired, half the people are on tx, fill in the blanks. Plus, I'm old so leave me alone!!! But I get your point about it not being a "sure thing"...too many figures in that diorama...we haven't even added in the "mind and attitude" factor that I feel plays a big part...but of course I have this conviction that external forces are controlling my mind and body...
bon mot no bon bons
bon mot no bon bons
Misty, Did I congratulate you yet? Best to you, SVR all the way!
Cuteus, Interesting article - thanks. More encouraging than I thought, assuming Hep C pats accrue similar benefit. I did note that the overall improvement they measure is in the 20% reduction range, not a whole lot - but improvement none the less.
Cuteus, Interesting article - thanks. More encouraging than I thought, assuming Hep C pats accrue similar benefit. I did note that the overall improvement they measure is in the 20% reduction range, not a whole lot - but improvement none the less.
there was a study that found fibrosis reversal in the majority of the subjects whether they got SVR or not, it could be the break from the virus assault, I guess.
but
can we apply what was found for hep b to hep c?
http://www.natap.org/2005/HCV/090505_06.htm
I love speculation.
but
can we apply what was found for hep b to hep c?
http://www.natap.org/2005/HCV/090505_06.htm
I love speculation.
Not to be wet blanket - but I have trouble buying into the theory that tx generally reverses a couple stages, if in fact anyone is advancing that position. I'll buy that it can happen, but I'd guess that it is far from the norm.
I also haven't found literature identifying interferon is an anti-fibrotic agent, but maybe I missed it. I accept that viral suppression/clearance CAN BE anti-fibrotic, but I believe the act of injecting interferon is far from a ticket to fibrosis reversal. I do acknowledge a general tendancy towards fibrosis reversal for SVR's, but it's far from an assured outcome in my opinion.
Remember too that needle biopsy can be off by as much as a couple stages, by ISHAK score. So it would take analysis of a large patient population to draw any hard conclusions. Anyone have any studies? I'd like nothing more than to be shown I'm being overly conservative on this one.
I've done a fair amount of reading on advanced fibrosis as a predictor of relapse. I don't see the fibrosis factor as significantly distinguished from some of the other widely held predictors of relapse. Anyone have any articles to recommend?
As for the issue of why a third tx might reach SVR where the first and second txes did not, here's a question. Flip a coin till you get heads. Say heads comes up on the third flip. Was it neccessarily anything occurring during flips one and two that paved the way for heads on flip three? Also, I'd expect that each subsequent tx is generally more agressive than its predecessors, offering a likely rationale for eventual success.
I also haven't found literature identifying interferon is an anti-fibrotic agent, but maybe I missed it. I accept that viral suppression/clearance CAN BE anti-fibrotic, but I believe the act of injecting interferon is far from a ticket to fibrosis reversal. I do acknowledge a general tendancy towards fibrosis reversal for SVR's, but it's far from an assured outcome in my opinion.
Remember too that needle biopsy can be off by as much as a couple stages, by ISHAK score. So it would take analysis of a large patient population to draw any hard conclusions. Anyone have any studies? I'd like nothing more than to be shown I'm being overly conservative on this one.
I've done a fair amount of reading on advanced fibrosis as a predictor of relapse. I don't see the fibrosis factor as significantly distinguished from some of the other widely held predictors of relapse. Anyone have any articles to recommend?
As for the issue of why a third tx might reach SVR where the first and second txes did not, here's a question. Flip a coin till you get heads. Say heads comes up on the third flip. Was it neccessarily anything occurring during flips one and two that paved the way for heads on flip three? Also, I'd expect that each subsequent tx is generally more agressive than its predecessors, offering a likely rationale for eventual success.
I also haven't found too many conclusive studies but many doctors do tout that SVR can reverse fibrosis (or cirrhosis) and to a lesser extent possibly even treatment itself, the latter being more controversial because of both lack of studies and because of what you said about the accuracy of biopsy results. While the "gold standard" a biopsy still can be off a couple of stages due absolute sample size, relative sample size and pathologist bias. I got readings a complete stage off from different pathologists looking at the same slides and that was on the Metavir scale that most of us use.
As far as advanced fibrosis being a neg predictor of SVR and/or relapse, I think I've read and listened to everything on this topic I could find since I was originally dx as a stage 3. I'm still confused. LOL. You hear this and you hear that. In any event, I'll probably treat a few weeks longer, that being a factor, but not sure if my decision is based on science or doubt.
Subsequent treatment success is an interesting issue and I think you put it well. People do tend to treat longer and harder each time so that could be it. Also, many seem to treat within a relatively short period of time after stopping, which in a sense might be viewed by the body as a really long single extended treatment. Also, some have speculated that each treatment progressively weakens the virus, another possible reason. A lot of speculation, not many studies.
Where the money should be going is into tests that can tell us once and for all that our immune system has conquered the virus and it's OK to stop treatment. My doc says such tests do exist in a few research labs but that really doesn't help us here in the trenches. Such a test would take most of the guesswork out of things.
-- Jim
As far as advanced fibrosis being a neg predictor of SVR and/or relapse, I think I've read and listened to everything on this topic I could find since I was originally dx as a stage 3. I'm still confused. LOL. You hear this and you hear that. In any event, I'll probably treat a few weeks longer, that being a factor, but not sure if my decision is based on science or doubt.
Subsequent treatment success is an interesting issue and I think you put it well. People do tend to treat longer and harder each time so that could be it. Also, many seem to treat within a relatively short period of time after stopping, which in a sense might be viewed by the body as a really long single extended treatment. Also, some have speculated that each treatment progressively weakens the virus, another possible reason. A lot of speculation, not many studies.
Where the money should be going is into tests that can tell us once and for all that our immune system has conquered the virus and it's OK to stop treatment. My doc says such tests do exist in a few research labs but that really doesn't help us here in the trenches. Such a test would take most of the guesswork out of things.
-- Jim
It is a real relief. I am still not up to par as I passed on a christimas party i go to every year. My husband was made i was not going and went by himself. I am still not ready to be around alot of booze. I did drink with Hep C and this treament has changed my tastes so much.. that I have no desire to drink.
Yes,, it is a big relief.
Yes,, it is a big relief.
That's what I heard is the norm. Stay on full-riba for a week after your last shot. Congratulations on your last shot! Must be a real relief.
-- Jim
-- Jim
Cuteous - yes - good logic on the extra duty. My bx is only 1/1 so maybe I am safe with the 48. No need to jump into any decisions at week 24.
Scruff -- need all the luck I can get, globe meister
Scruff -- need all the luck I can get, globe meister
on that line of thought, if tx reverses damage a stage or two, as some have posted, then it kind of make sense that people do 2 or 3 rounds before getting SVR, if their damage is above 2. The first round(s) bring the damage to a level where tx will finally work?
excellent job mistybean! think SVR!
and now to the other bean; glad Bill was around for you! Going the 36 wks extra will basically give you the feeling that you did everything "by the book", because there is no guarantee that 48 won't work or 56 will. I just got a Holiday card from a friend who did 72 wks total, she was free of the virus for over 14 months and still relapsed, Don A did one yr from clearing and it came back. I do 72 and it works for me, is it the biopsy stage maybe? I think I had milder disease than they. It seems to does make a difference even if RVR.
If it was me, as long as Tx was not endangering my life, I would go the length.
good luck on that one, friend.
and now to the other bean; glad Bill was around for you! Going the 36 wks extra will basically give you the feeling that you did everything "by the book", because there is no guarantee that 48 won't work or 56 will. I just got a Holiday card from a friend who did 72 wks total, she was free of the virus for over 14 months and still relapsed, Don A did one yr from clearing and it came back. I do 72 and it works for me, is it the biopsy stage maybe? I think I had milder disease than they. It seems to does make a difference even if RVR.
If it was me, as long as Tx was not endangering my life, I would go the length.
good luck on that one, friend.
Yes, that is what I want. Good to see you post. I hope you are feeling better. What was your vl at 12 weeks? Mine was only 40 IU/ml so would have shown undetectable if I had had a standard <50 test. Then I had a PCR at 16 weeks, but they ran the <50 test so altho I was undetectable, it did not mean anything to me. At 20 weeks, I had an undetectable PCR at the high sensitivity <5 so I feel comfortable with that. So were I to go 36 from clear, I would have to use the 20 week test, making the total time 56 weeks. I really have made no decision yet. In fact yesterday I posted I would not extend. Now I am not sure. I sure hate reading posts from those clear at 12 and 24 who relapse.
best to you, hope to see more of your quick humor on the forum
frijole
best to you, hope to see more of your quick humor on the forum
frijole
You might take a look at the following computer model by G.L. Drusano, Ordway research. Here
I have my 24 week appt with the GI here in a few hours. I would love to ask him (intelligently) about treating 36 weeks after clear instead of the standard 48. Can anyone give me a link or the researcher's name on that? I think Cuteus just posted the researcher's name a few days ago but I can't find it now (of course).
frijole
frijole
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