liver friendly ads

[rexx73]

hello,

is it common to have suicidal thoughts after hep-c treatment?iam struggling long time already with depression
and anxiety,but it seems to worsen the longer,started now having suicidal thoughts.
tomorrow i have an apointment with another psychiatrist,as the one i have now seems not be able to help me.
what are liver friendly ads?

apreciate some help

marc

[ceanothus]

Don't take too long to start the AD. Phone your hepatologist's office, don't wait until your next scheduled appointment. I'm sure they will say it's fine, and really your psychiatrist should be able to answer it anyway. You are going to get your good news (SVR) very soon, and I hope it helps you to feel better, but don't be too surprised if it takes a while to sink in. It took at least a week for me before I really started to believe it, and I still have a sort of weird default thought-pattern about having the virus. I just had it so darn long that even though I hated it, it still became a part of who I was, so I'm having to redefine myself now. Maybe that is part of what is making you feel so strongly that the virus is still with you too. I think it just takes time to feel better, but we also have to keep working at the mindset and at reinventing who we are.

[rexx73]

I forgot to say,about my liver histology, I was f3 in 2008.
so all my physical Symptoms I have iam thinking  coming progressed to f4 even I had no biopsy since then.
so iam thinking of getting another biopsy done to know where iam now

marc

[rexx73]

thanks so much for all these heartwarming words.this means a lot to me.
this forum with all of you helping user has become so important to me.
my new psychiatryst and me now trying an ad to help me.
its either venlafaxin or zoloft.
but before I start taking one of these I want to ask my hepatologist.if its safe for me to take or if they recommend another ad.

[rivll]

Awesome posts from all of you.
Hector, thank you so much for this last post, There are many hearts listening to your words. I thank you for myself.

[HectorSF]

Marc,

"so even i had many sides,i finished treatment and i was UND from week 4 till eot.3 and 4.5 months post iam still UND.next week i will have my
post tx 6 months pcr done and i hope i will have svr. "
I can remember the number but I think you have a better than 95% chance of being SVR! You have nothing to worry about as far as hep C is concerned.

"but since i finished treatment i did not start to feel better,i even felt more worse,the longer the more."
That is your clinical depression. That is what you need to treat now.

"when i was on tx i still hade much hope that the treatment was not too late. but now i am so sure my liver will not improve or heal.
for me its absolutely certain.i will die of ether liver failure or hcc in the near future."
The fact is that someone with stage 3 liver disease when cured is completely reversible. You are worrying about SOMETHING THAT CAN"T HAPPEN. You didn't have stage 4, cirrhosis, so you are more likely to get hit by lightening than get HCC. This is a fact that has been known for many years and is nothing controversial about it or in doubt. Your depression is preventing you from seeing reality for what it is. You are creating "dooms day" scenarios in your mind that have no basis in fact. Of course this is common in people with clinical depression. Which is why they feel helpless and hopeless and thing the only way out is suicide. Which is why clinical depression is so dangerous. That is why we say to treat before cirrhosis as it is only when someone has cirrhosis that the architecture of the liver (increasing the chance of HCC) and the portal blood supply changes and then cirrhosis is only partially reversible. You have cure your hep C at the right time. To feel otherwise is that you don't know this is the case or your depression is making you only think negatively even when you have achieved what everyone on this forum wants to achieve.

"as iam 40 years i hade still so much plans for life,but they all
disappeared.and its hurting me that my wife has to suffer under my condition also.

"for me its just waiting for the inevitable,and exacly this is blocking my whole energy,as iam living in fear,anxiety and depression from morning till i go the bed."
Again these are typical symptoms of clinical depression and like hep C is curable. I know it feel horrible but try to keep in mind your world is colored by depression which makes the whole world seem horrible.
If it is any help, remember I went through what you are going through for decades and no longer have depression. There is help out there just like with hep C. Sometimes it is difficult but in the long run well worth the effort.

"i know it could be much much worse as we have seen here in many members,and i hope nobody  take offense at my posting whos physical condition is more worse. "
Feeling guilty is your depression talking. You have nothing to feel guilty about. Your suffering is your suffering. And it is real. Cure your depression and you will love life again with a new appreciation. Try to ease up on yourself. Harsh self judgement doesn't change anything except make you feel worse. Getting help does. Again just like hep C.

Hang in there. Help is out there. Keep seeking it and never give up. Get a good doc that understands and treats patients with clinical depression ASAP. No sense suffering any more than you have to.
Hector

[pooh55811]

First, it is a very good predictor that you were still UND at 4.5 months after treatment end. I am sure your 6 month post EOT VL will be UND.

As far as feeling better and liver improvement, this takes time. The liver improves slowly over time. It takes months, years. The side effects from the medications take time to go away, several months. Even for those of us at lower fibrosis stages, the side effects take a long time to totally disappear. Many people say they did not get back to feeling normal (free of side effects) until a year or more after treatment. So try to give it more time. Also, try to be realistic about expectations. Most of us will not feel like we are 20 years old again. For one thing, we are not 20 years old and, for another thing, our bodies have been through a very serious chronic disease as well as a very demanding treatment. We cannot expect to feel like we would feel if we had never had the disease or had never gone through a demanding treatment. I know you know all of that. So try to give it alittle more time and hopefully you will feel better as the days and weeks and months go by.

I know you struggled through treatment and that depression was a major concern for you during treatment. You stuck with treatment and finished it. You kept your eyes on the prize and completed treatment. Because you finished treatment and because you were UND at 4.5 months after treatment, you have every reason to believe that you will attain SVR and be free of this virus forever. However, I think your depression is clouding your thinking. You are obviously depressed. Depression can cloud and distort thinking. (Believe me, I know, I have a history of major clinical depression myself, so I know how distorted thinking can be when one is depressed.) I think the depression is making you see things in a very pessimistic way. The depression makes everything  appear bleak and hopeless. But remember, that is the depression talking. It is not reality. Things appear bleak and hopeless, but they are not. In addition, depression can cause a lot of physical symptoms so the depression may be affecting how you feel physically too. Perhaps if you were not depressed you would be feeling much better physically.

I am sure that treatment did help your liver and your life. I am sure that treatment will help prolong your life and considerably decrease your chance of liver related problems in the future. In fact, at Stage 3, you have an excellent chance of liver improvement and of never developing end stage liver disease or HCC. It is the depression that is making you think you will die of liver disease or HCC.

You are still young. You have many years of healthy life ahead of you. You can fulfill all of your dreams and wishes. You just need to get successfully treated for depression and you will see the world and your life much differently.

It is not normal to have suicidal thoughts. I am happy to see that you are seeing a new psychiatrist today. I am hoping that this new psychiatrist will get you on the appropriate antidepressants so that you will feel better soon. You will see that once you are not depressed, that you will see your life, your future, and the world much differently.

Marc, I am sending positive thoughts and energy and the very best of wishes your way. You can feel better and you deserve to feel better so that you can enjoy the rest of your life to the utmost.

[ceanothus]

Oh boy, I know just how you are feeling, and its painful to think of you hurting so much. Please reach out to all the people around you, including us, your friends and family, and your doctor. Let people help you and pull you out of this. Start on an anti-depressant and talk to people. I've been through that feeling that I was doomed to die of ESLD or HCC, and I've also felt that my final test was sure to show the virus back. It's hard to believe in success after having the virus prevail for so long, but in spite of my fears I DID achieve SVR and I now am told that even though I have cirrhosis, my odds of ESLD or HCC are much lower now. You will very likely have achieved SVR too, but even if you haven't you should know that you have given your liver a good long break from the virus so it will be healthier for a longer period now and will give you time to wait for the next batch of drugs to be available. We all are on your side and at your side in this battle.

[rexx73]

thanks so much for all the tipps.

i have nearly all symptoms hector listed above.

i have to say it all started as i was waiting for the protease inhibitors to be available here in europe.
as i had the biopsy in 2008 wich was f3,my doc and i decided to treat asap with soc.when i look back maybe it would have been better trying to wait and get in a trial.
but at this time in switzerland we didnt have a trial who i would have qualified for.
so i treatd with soc,but  just partialy respondet.so after that i knew i have to wait for the pis coming out.
i started to have apointments in 3 transplant center where they have clinical trials going.
but none had one for me,they just looked after treatment naives,and as i did treatment already in 1999 with the "old" interferon and riba,and 2008 with peg.interferon/riba i did not qualify for one.
the told me they will have soon trials for nonresponders but time has gone by and i could do nothing but wait.
then in the beginning of 2011 my anxiety started as i did statring to feel worse.
in nov. 2011 telaprevir was available here,so i started treatment and had much hope,but also much fears if i gonna make it thru 48 weeks.
during this treatment my depression and anxiety have become more and more worse,as i knew it has to be working,llike this is my last chance to clear the virus.
so even i had many sides,i finished treatment and i was UND from week 4 till eot.3 and 4.5 months post iam still UND.next week i will have my
post tx 6 months pcr done and i hope i will have svr.
but since i finished treatment i did not start to feel better,i even felt more worse,the longer the more.
when i was on tx i still hade much hope that the treatment was not too late.
but now i am so sure my liver will not improve or heal.
for me its absolutely certain.i will die of ether liver failure or hcc in the near future.
as iam 40 years i hade still so much plans for life,but they all
disappeared.and its hurting me that my wife has to suffer under my condition also.
for me its just waiting for the inevitable,and exacly this is blocking my whole energy,as iam living in fear,anxiety and depression from morning till i go the bed.

i know it could be much much worse as we have seen here in many members,and i hope nobody  take offense at my posting whos physical condition is more worse.

marc

[HectorSF]

what are liver friendly ads?

It all depends on how advanced you liver disease is.

Most if not all antidepressants are filtered through the liver. Your Psychiatrist should know which are dangerous for those with liver disease or ask your gastro or hepatologist if there is any drugs you need to avoid.

Hector

[HectorSF]

Unlike hepatitis C until a person has decompensated cirrhosis, clinical depression is life threatening if you are having thoughts of death and suicide.

If you are obsessing about death and suicide let your doctor know. Or call your local suicide line just to talk to someone. Don't isolate yourself that will only make matters worse.

Clinical depression is a serious medical illness that negatively affects how you feel, the way you think and how you act. Individuals with clinical depression are unable to function as they used to. Often they have lost interest in activities that were once enjoyable to them, and feel sad and hopeless for extended periods of time.

Clinical depression is not the same as feeling sad or depressed for a few days and then feeling better. It can affect your body, mood, thoughts, and behavior. It can change your eating habits, how you feel and think, your ability to work and study, and how you interact with people. People who suffer from clinical depression often report that they "don't feel like themselves anymore."

Clinical depression is a serious illness that lasts for weeks, months and sometimes years. It may even influence someone to contemplate or attempt suicide because the mental pain is so overwhelming and the feeling of hopelessness reinforce those negative feelings.

There are different types and levels of clinical depression. Mental health counselors and psychiatrists are trained to diagnose and treat clinical depression. With the right treatment, most people who seek help get better within several months. Many people begin to feel better in just a few weeks

Physical:

Sleep disturbances-insomnia, oversleeping, waking much earlier than usual

Changes in appetite or eating: much more or much less

Decreased energy, fatigue

Headaches, stomachaches, digestive problems or other physical symptoms that are not explained by other physical conditions or do not respond to treatment.

Behavioral/Attitude:

Loss of interest or pleasure in activities that were once enjoyed, such as going out with friends, hobbies, sports, sex, etc.

Difficulty concentrating, remembering, or making decisions

Neglecting responsibilities or personal appearance

Emotional:

Persistent sad or "empty" mood, lasting two or more weeks

Crying "for no reason"

Feeling hopeless, helpless, guilty or worthless

Frequent thoughts of death, dying or suicide

Feeling irritable, agitated or anxious

Thoughts of death or suicide

Hang in there.
I suffered with servere depression for decades and have overcome it with antidepressant use and then then therapy. Despite my current battle with cancer that I am losing I have never gotten depressed. Sad, angry, frightened and a million other feelings but not depressed and stuck in that mood. So depression even after decades is curable although I must always be aware of the possibility of having another depressive episode.

Best of luck!
Hector

[rivll]

" i read the title to this thread and thought " all the advertisements on this site must be liver friendly"..

Still laughing. Thank you! I really needed a belly laugh today.

[uncledudeness]

boy am i a dolt. i read the title to this thread and thought " all the advertisements on this site must be liver friendly"....ok stop laughing....i'm sensitive ya know.

glad ya made it here rexx73. you will get great support and once in a while, you might laugh at some of the responses....ok stop it now....i am fragile and on riba.

[ppmguy]

            5 months into tx, which was suppose to be 24 weeks of tx.  my dr asked me to eztend to 48 weeks.  i was floored by this.  i was started on zoloft.  2 1/2 weeks later i was calm and i got my can do attitude back.  

                             barry

[rivll]

Ceanothus is once again on the mark.
I will add that my Hepa said that all the ad's currently in use are fine for the liver (I am cirrhotic) but added some ppl have experienced problems with cymbalta.

I personally haven't decided if I want to start up with the ad's but I think they are generally a godsend. When we have been ill for so long and treating with meds that cause depression, it makes sense that many of us will experience depression. It doesn't necessarily disappear with SVR.

You have been through a lot, I hope you start with ad's and then give yourself time to recover from the challenges you have faced this past year and more.
Hang in there, it will get better.
Riv

[ceanothus]

I'm so glad you are getting to see your doc right away, we really don't want to lose you! I've also had problems with chronic clinical depression. My doctors have not been alarmed over any of the various ad's I've tried over the years, but then you have to remember that a near or immediate risk of suicide is far more life-threatening than a possible down-the-road risk that a drug might tax your liver over time. There's always a chance of making up later for having taxed the liver, but you can't fix anything after suicide. I can't remember all the drugs I've tried over the years, but the most recent ones have been Zoloft and Cymbalta. Both seem fine for the liver and both seemed very equivalent in their direct effects, but Zoloft is far cheaper and was less likely to cause constipation for me. It may be that neither one does that to you, but I'm quite susceptible since I also take narcotic pain meds daily due to a painful disease of the spinal cord. Don't hesitate to fine-tune the dosage until it feels exactly right. Let us know how it goes.