For HR - Hepatitis Technologies antioxidants

[Smanda1]

Hi HR

I have a query I hope you may answer.

I unfortunately have alcohol induced liver injury (there are no viable help websites for my situation) so am gleaning what information I can get from this informative HCV website.

My situation is this .. I stopped drinking 2 years ago after several years on and off excess.  I am female, 52kgs, 170cm (always been low BMI).  At the time of stopping a fibroscan gave a reading of 8.4kpa - subsequent readings several months later 9.8kpa/10.5kpa.

Despite repeatedly normal lft's (except intermittent mildly elevated bilirubin) and total abstinence my liver disease seems to be progressing, My platelets dropped a year ago, and MCV increased.

I have been dipping in and out of your protocol for a year now as have been concerned re toxicity and quality so have not taken the quantities or all supps you advised (eg NAC seems to increase a mild itchiness I experience).   My UK based hepatologist is adamant I don't have ongoing inflammation as not convinced of fibroscan and ongoing normal enzymes.  MRI/MRCP 2 months ago normal.  Ultrasound year ago showed possible mild diffuse inflammation or early fibrosis.

A company HepTech have a similar protocol which seem to address quality issues and use the high dosage that you advised, but I am concerned I might overwhealm my liver which I believe is potentially more toxic than then hepC sufferers'.  HepTech advised that they have not had problems with increasing enzymes in any of their customers ..  .

Could you please advise given my unusual situation ...
Many many thanks

[Smanda1]

ok .. I see you do refer to 'seeing the light to Mike' .. glad they're obviously working for you too .. have you had notable drops in enzymes etc.

[copyman]

Sorry for the confusion.  As stated above I do take supplements. mainly the ones suggested by HR.

I do believe in supplements as a preventive measure

[Smanda1]

hi ... re the coffee .. I had a look through his posts and he doesn't actually really comment one way or the other..

Just a query .. why are you so sceptical about supplements?  It seems they are working for some people and HR (who I understand is an eminent, MD, surgeon, researcher) has spent many years studying their effects.  Have you had a bad experience or heard of bad experiences . .. I have been dipping in and out of the HR's protocol for the last year (but not of quantities required and I don't know whether they have had an impact but feel they have had to a small degree).  I am now on the cusp of trying HepTech's products which seem to be based on the same protocol and in the frightenly high required high doses  .. I am cautious but (maybe naively) optimistic.  As my situation is different and I don't have a virus there is nothing else I can do to cure my liver disease.  As I understand it I have set off an inflammatory reaction in my liver.

Anyway, any information would be greatly appreciated.

[beetfeat]

many vitamins amino acids and supplements have proven beneficial to treatment improving svr results

[copyman]

last post was for you

[copyman]

I do remember that you were taking some supplements but I remember more of the obscure treatments you swore by.

what about the other treatments you came here saying were good, LDN, ALA etc. what happen to them? why aren't you still on them. you claimed they helped you so much. Now you know why we debated them at that time.

PLAIN & SIMPLE.........

SUPPLEMENTS = PREVENTIVE CARE

INTERFERON & RIBAVIRIN = CURE (50% or 80% of the time, for now anyway)

[copyman]

I believe HR has commented on this forum about coffee. Go to his profile and click on his past posts. If you google HCV/coffee you will see many studies that have been done on this

[Cory255]

I generally SKIM thru messages, rather than reading every little detail- anyway, sorry for getting off topic...........

[Cory255]

I'm thinking logically here and may be on to something...The tx drugs must work together with your immune system to remove the hcv...

The more pockets of scar tissue you have in your liver, the less chances you have of the immune system clearing 100% of the virus.  People who relapse could have virus particles hiding in scar tissue inside your liver.  That's where the virus likes to hang out at.  So, the less damage you have in your liver the better.  

AND I think it important to protect your liver, try to slow down fibrosis, try to improve the overall health of your liver... etc, etc...  To try to slow down or prevent any damage the hcv virus could potentially cause- thus reducing the chance a relapse could occur.

Interferon is the main gun.  Ribavirn doesn't reduce viral load, it reduces the chances of viral breakthrough.  The addition of Telaprevir to PegIFN/Riba allows viral eradication even in prior non-responders...

Telaprevir is completing phase 3 trials this year (2010), and will most likely be available in 2011.  It will be a good year.  Cory.  

[Smanda1]

hi copyman .. if you communicate with HR wouldnyou mind asking him his thoughts on coffee .. ?  Perhaps it might all seem a bit banal; to me it seems a bit of hype, but the same positive research of its effects keeps resurfacing.

Thanks if you can.
amanda

[mhudnall]

I've always taken these supplements. They are the same supplements that I got from my doctor before I got them from HepTech. I was taking them before I became a member on this board and heard about HR.

I have always told you that; I have also told you that they are the same supplements you are taking, but you have always bashed them anyway. You have also always called them off the wall.

Good to see you change your tune.

[copyman]

HR suggested getting the Heptapro from life extension. I actually communicate with HR away from this forum so I will ask him about this.

On another note, why the supplements now? I thought you were having great success with all those off the wall treatments you posted about?
Good to see you finally saw the light.

[evangelin]

I sure have nothing against Life Extension.  I have purchased a lot from them over the years and would again if I couldn't get the Hep Tech supplements.  I actually use to buy mostly from Swanson Vitamins and they sell quite a bit of Life Extension products now.  I am buying the Hep Tech stuff because it has been very purposely designed to reverse fibrosis and inflammation in people with liver disease.  They collect the ingredients very carefully from sources out of my reach and it has been really helpful to get all I need from one place.  It amounts to a lot less pills for Joe also and I would be hard pressed to get the equivalent potency anywhere else.  Joe is just in a place where we have to get every advantage we are able.  We aren't wealthy and I am only of average intelligence so I'm glad that someone else figured it out for me.  It seems expensive but if you added up what you'd need to buy to get the same amount and quality on your own, I don't think it is too bad.  We have had to make some sacrifices and adjustments to budget it but in our case, it has been worth it to us. I want to make it clear that if I couldn't get the Hep. Tech any longer, I'd go right back to buying the individual ingredients like I did before.  I guess I'd have to get PPC with Ethanol but for now I'm glad I've got the Ethanol free kind.
All a person can do is do there best at any given time.  
Ev

[evangelin]

Articles have been coming out about the favorable effects of dark chocolate also.  It has to be at least 85% cocoa to help I think.  I buy a brand called Lindt from Walmart and it isn't very expensive . I have Joe eat a square of it after lunch and dinner and even if you never liked dark chocolate before, it tends to grow on you.  It helps if you eat or drink something warm before putting it in your mouth.  If you eat it while your mouth is cold, it tastes kind of like a big hunk of wax. :>(  I usually keep Joe's coffee cup full in the morning hours and he ends of with probably 3 cups at least a day.  The dark chocolate is especially yummy with some hot coffee.  Sure beats swallowing more pills.
I understand feeling a stigma.  Hepatitis C comes with one also.  It sounds like you are commited to taking care of yourself now.  
Blessings,
Ev

[mhudnall]

I limit myself to one cup of coffee a day, but that's because any more than that interferes with my sleep, which I prioritize. There is positive and negative info out there, I would stay away from the darker roasts and drink organic, and not decaffeinated. The lighter roasts are basically cooked less, so less derangement of the nutrients.

Good luck to you Amanda,

Mike H

[Smanda1]

and everyone

what's your views on coffee drinking .. I know that when I was drinking 5 cups a days (when I first learnt I had fibrosis) .. my ALT went down to 14 and GGT dropped to 29, yet I had worse gastro symptoms.

any thoughts
cheers

[Smanda1]

and others ..

Thanks so much for your posts.  I have felt rather sheepish posting as there is such a stigma with alcoholic cirrhosis .. I still can't believe it's happened -  I wasn't a huge drinker but did overindulge (perhaps being female and very slight didn't help); so I do appreciate comments.

Evangelin, thanks for the info on the heptech products and Joe's improvements.  I really am so pleased for you both to be getting somewhere.  I am definitely going to try them now.  I had been following HR's protocol on and off for about a year but found it a bit of minefield trying to guarantee I had the best products - I bought good quality ALA and then discover I need R isomer ALA .. never heard of that!  I also have been worried that things might be toxic to me -  I tried the tumeric (with bioperine) but felt that seemed to inflame my liver to a small degree.  My ALT has ranged from 14-26 (range 0-40) over c15 lfts in the last 18 months - generally hovering around 20, so I gather my inflammation isn't too severe so hopefully something can stop it.  It's incredible how insensitive lft's actually are as mine have never been remotely elevated - just bilirubin.  My GGT is in the 30's however.

Anyway, best of luck to everyone ... I'll let you know how I get on.  I am very, very hopeful (which is a good start).
amanda

[Bali05]

Hepatitis Technologies  PPC is made in Germany by Nattermann in Cologne
Essentiale 300mg  

[mhudnall]

Life Extension's Hepatopro contains 30% ethanol. HepTech's does not and is pharmaceutical grade.

Mike H

[copyman]

Since we are mentioning places to buy supplements, I get mine from Life Extension. Most if not all of HR's suggested supps can be bought there. Google their name for website.

[evangelin]

My husband has had cirrhosis for more than 6 years. (6 years ago was only when it was diagnosed but noticeable symptoms started up 7-8 yrs ago.)  He has Hep. C with no drinking involved and he has taken HR's protocol for several years and done very well.  We  have switched to the quality and potency you get with the Hepatitis Technologies' products, and it is very close to what HR  shared with us previously. I believe it to be much better than what i can patch together myself.   Joe started on full doses from the beginning and never had any ill effects .  Our latest good news was when he went in for another  banding of his esophageal varicies (caused by pressure in portal vein of cirrhotic liver)  the Dr. was very surprised to see it looked much improved and he didn't  require more banding.  He indicated that this was not at all what he expected from what he'd seen a couple of months ago.  I have lost track of how long he has taken them but I'm thinking it has been around 4 months. (I don't have a good calender in my head.)  Joe looks well these days and has good energy.   He has at times before HR's supplements, and of course while taking interferon, been quite sick and miserable.  We can't afford to do frequent labs  but the last ones he had were only after a short time of taking Hep.  Tech. supps.(maybe a month or so...my brain fog is worse than Joe's now and my liver is fine!)  and there were some improvements.  His ALT was in the high normal range and his AST was not far from the normal range.  His albumin was also improved but I think that might be due to upping his protein.  Who can know for sure?  For now, we will most definitely continue with Hep Tech.  By the way, Joe had a recent MRI showing no lesions.  Swelling in the belly area (ascites) is looking  better.  I can't prove a thing and don't want to be picked on for sharing our results .I am not a spammer.  I have been around on Medhelp for years and I don't have anything to sell to anyone.  I am  fairly quiet with posting but I'm always on the hunt for things to help Joe.  People like Joe, who have tried everything medically available to them with no good results, deserve to be able to share information that could help others like them.  Lots of people can't get treated successfully for a multitude of reasons.
PPC is suppose to be very good for alcoholic liver problems and Hep. Tech has the best.  HR was very much a proponent of PPC.  
I wish you all the best,
Ev

[portann]

HR pops in here unexpectedly now and then and I hope you'll luck out, as it's always such a pleasure (and honor) to hear from him.

Unfortunately, it's rare these days to see him.

Have you considered sending him a note or private message, to alert him to your post. I don't know if that will flag him down but it might.

Best wishes,

Susan