milk thistle

[crankykk]

when I mentioned to my doctor that I took MILK THISTLE, he gave me a look of disgust.  He never answered me should I not take it...is it just hype, or does it mabey have some benifit?

[GoofyDad]

I had the same Hepa as OH. I questioned him and he liked the stuff - off TX at least. He seemed to understand the hows and whys of it working. I asked if it might just be lowering LFT readings, thus giving the illusion that it helped the liver. Kinda cleaning up the crime scene after the fact. He said no, MT is protective of the liver and less damage results in lower LFTs. He's not one to go off half-cocked. I believe it works. Drug store quality is suspect, though.

[fretboard]

Here's some MT information off of PubMed.  There's been some good things said and other inconclusive stuff said.  One thing for sure is it must do something good for the liver as almost all supplements made for us heppers contain MT.  Maybe tomorrow I will try to take a regular dose.  IDK


Multiple effects of silymarin on the hepatitis C virus lifecycle.

Department of Laboratory Medicine, University of Washington, Seattle, WA 98104-2499, USA.
Abstract

Silymarin, an extract from milk thistle (Silybum marianum), and its purified flavonolignans have been recently shown to inhibit hepatitis C virus (HCV) infection, both in vitro and in vivo. In the current study, we further characterized silymarin's antiviral actions. Silymarin had antiviral effects against hepatitis C virus cell culture (HCVcc) infection that included inhibition of virus entry, RNA and protein expression, and infectious virus production. Silymarin did not block HCVcc binding to cells but inhibited the entry of several viral pseudoparticles (pp), and fusion of HCVpp with liposomes. Silymarin but not silibinin inhibited genotype 2a NS5B RNA-dependent RNA polymerase (RdRp) activity at concentrations 5 to 10 times higher than required for anti-HCVcc effects. Furthermore, silymarin had inefficient activity on the genotype 1b BK and four 1b RDRPs derived from HCV-infected patients. Moreover, silymarin did not inhibit HCV replication in five independent genotype 1a, 1b, and 2a replicon cell lines that did not produce infectious virus. Silymarin inhibited microsomal triglyceride transfer protein activity, apolipoprotein B secretion, and infectious virion production into culture supernatants. Silymarin also blocked cell-to-cell spread of virus. CONCLUSION: Although inhibition of in vitro NS5B polymerase activity is demonstrable, the mechanisms of silymarin's antiviral action appear to include blocking of virus entry and transmission, possibly by targeting the host cell.

PMID: 20512985 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]PMCID: PMC2909978 [Available on 2011/6/1]

[CoStudy]

I was told not to take MT while on TX as it helps clear the Liver of toxins. The clearing effect (while on treatment) will also clear the meds you are taking for treatment. I took it for 3 years prior to treatment and do not believe it helped my VL any. If anything it may have slowed the progression between stages of liver damage. It is recommended for people that consume alcohol as it will clear the alcohol out of your liver faster. So, if still drinking with Hep C or drinking after treatment, definitely ML should be taken.

Just my opinion and what I have been told.

[Bill1028]

My hepatologist is involved in the current NIH trial.  The last time that I relapsed, I asked if I should take MT and he said there isn’t enough evidence for me to take a chance since I have cirrhosis.  He also said the stuff that you buy online or in the drug stores is useless, they are using a controlled type that is made in Germany.  There seems to be more benefit for those with NALD and alcohol damage.

I’m in the boc trial and they said I could take it, maybe because there is no benefit and that wouldn’t change the outcome of the trial.

He in the process of writing up a study for IV MT.

[orphanedhawk]

When I asked my heptalogist about supplements, it was the  only one he thought might do any good.

[paen53]

I took MT for several years after dx (2004). By late 2008, my bx showed cirrhosis. Does that mean it didn't do squat for me or did it keep me from de-comping? I don't know and never will, most likely. My Dr. recommmended I stay on it during a long, enhanced version of SOC. I had my doubts after hearing comments about it protecting the liver so much the meds couldn't do their job, but I stayed with the stuff per Dr. and so far, so good.

UncleD, I had those red blotchy areas on my legs (calves) too and thought they were from the cryoglobulinemia or the intense itching I had prior to tx - breaking blood vessels or some such thing. Whatever they were from, they are now fading away.

[uncledudeness]

i have been taking it for 9 months. it hasn't changed my alt/ast's or the viral load. what it does do "for ME" is reduce the purpura (red blotchy areas due to low platlets) on my legs. It also reduces the upper right quadrant pain i get. it doesn't eliminate it, it reduces it. if not on tx, why not take it...i was told not to take it while on tx; regardless of being in a trial....my Hepa said that he couldn't recommend it because it wasn't FDA approved...we all know how that goes...MT is currently being studied in the HCV trials. so give it a shot for a month or two, and you be the judge.

[fretboard]

You can take it on tx unless you're on a clinical trial and then you got to stop b/c it will improve your ALT and AST too much.  I don't know if it affects the viral load test but you really want to read the truth during tx time.  I know some ppl take all kinds of stuff to try to increase their chances of SVR but I wouldn't recommend MT for tx, ever.

[James10500]

What about taking it if on tx. The medication is toxic doesn't ML help clean toxins from the liver.  My doctor knows about it he mentions it in his book "Living with Hepatitis C" in chapter 5. Says it has been studied but not proven to be effective. He told me the issue with herbal remedies is that there is no control over what is actualy going in the bottle.

[fretboard]

Although many ppl take it, I don't think it's been proven yet one way or another whether it works or not.  I know that in 3rd world countries it is used extensively and some ppl who take it in the 3rd world areas think they're on tx.  All I can say is if you have some you might as well take it.  I have some and I take it but I don't take 3 caps a day like it says.  That said, I may start after I get this question answered.


Hey anyone who takes it:  Do you notice a benefit besides your blood tests?  I mean does it physically make you feel better?  

[Boobert]

Some MD's just don't know anything about it so they can't reccomend it.I've been taking it  for over 8 years now and swear by it. My GI at first said it wouldn't hurt at first but over the years he has now becoming a believer and actually reccomends it to his other patients. So to answer your question go ahead and take it it helps.

[James10500]

My Doc told me to save my money and go out to lunch.