I fathered kids while hep c positive

[arpren]

I hate to go against the doomsayers on hep c. But  I must tell the positive side. HepC is rarely a death sentence, only 10-15 percent develop liver cancer or cirrhosis in there old age from hep c. I ve had hepatitis C for over 17 years and I am still in good health . I have fathered 2  daughters in that time who are healthy, normal and free of hepc. I have had regular sex with my woman and she also has not contracted hepC. Hep C is rarely contracted by sex, in fact everyone I know who caught hepc it was either through drug experimentation using needles or through blood transfusions
I think  doctors have  exaggerated the fear of hep C  by naming  the condition  HCV which sounds  awfully like HIV.
The 2 conditions are a world apart


This discussion is related to Help understanding Hep C treatment.

[JennyPenny]

I hate to go against the doomsayers on hep c.
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Hmmmm. Doomsayers? You might feel differently if you've been the one living with cirrhosis as long as I have. 20% of 5 million people makes for a lot of suffering.

Jim, I've glanced through this thread as well a a few others and I have seen a lot of mention of the fact that cirrhosis will be a problem for a lot more people as HCV patients age. Do you know of any specific links where I can see this? I have seen it before but not on sites that I have a lot of confidence in. The only thing I have seen that comes out on the other side of this is Dr. Seef's study on the WWII veterans where most died of other things and the few that are still alive do not have cirrhosis 50 years later.

[jmjm530]

I hate to go against the doomsayers on hep c.
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The "doomsayers" are wrong but so are the rosy colored glass crowd.

HCV is what it is. In some cases you get a free ride. In others your end up needing a transplant or worst.

Have you had a liver biopsy to determine how much liver damage you have? That's the only reality check, the rest has little meaning. You can feel physically great and be knocking at the door of cirrhosis and you can feel not so hot and have little or no liver damage.

If your biopsy shows little or no damage, then your scenario may indeed be rosy, at least for now. If it shows significant damage, then it really doesn't make much difference how good you feel because you're heading toward a place where one day you will not feel good at all.

BTW, studies vary, but most with HCV end up with cirrhosis by around age 65 no matter when or how long we have been affected. Of course that doesn't mean some might not end up their earlier. Again, get a biopsy if you haven't and repeat every 3-5 years.

-- Jim

[Willy50]

Lets say that for the sake of argument..... that Telaprevir were to become FDA approved in EXACTLY 2 YEARS.  Lets say that the TX will be a 24 week period and a 80% SVR rate; double the efficacy and in half the time.

SOC takes 48 weeks and a percentage of those who treat fall into slower response curves and therefore need to TX for longer periods of time.  Therefore at some point in the future.....maybe in 18 months but maybe sooner someone who waits to treat with triple therapy will finish TX sooner than someone who is "proactive" and decides to treat sooner.  The proactive person will also have about half the chances for SVR than the person who waits.

What will happen when that day comes?  
Some doctors will tell patients to wait.  
Some will continue to treat patients.  
Logic would almost tell you that almost no one should TX in that window period.  
I don't think that we will see that however.  

I'd actually like to see Telaprevir allowed for some past TX failure groups so that they can be treated early since they NEED it.  It could also keep the *machinery* lubricated while there could be a lull in the assembly line.  Doctors have house payments too, after all.

Willy

[Marc1955]

One recent study of HCV mortality rates is:

"Changing trends in hepatitis C-related mortality in the United States, 1995-2004
Matthew Wise, Stephanie Bialek 3, Lyn Finelli 3, Beth P. Bell 3, Frank Sorvillo 1 2p published in the April 2008 issue of Hepatology,  

Among its rather alarming findings is that the average age of mortality among men with HCV is 55.

Here's a bit of the conclusion:

This analysis of recent death certificate data demonstrates the substantial and generally rising burden of hepatitis C-related mortality, and highlights the contribution of hepatitis C-related disease to premature mortality. According to the analysis of YPLL, hepatitis C-related disease was the 16th leading cause of premature death in the United States in 2004, and the fourth leading infectious cause of premature mortality behind HIV/AIDS, influenza and pneumonia, and septicemia.[19]

Understanding trends in hepatitis C-related mortality is complicated by changes in hepatitis C diagnostic practices, particularly during the first half of the study period. Observed increases in mortality during this time likely reflect both true increases in mortality and the impact of the growing use of serologic tests for HCV. As such, true increases in hepatitis C-related mortality during 1995-1999 were likely more gradual than the observed trends, and differences in mortality patterns between the time periods are difficult to interpret.

Mortality rates generally increased over the 10-year study period, with a small decline in overall mortality rates observed in the final 2 years of the study. The decline in mortality during these final years appears to be driven by decreases in mortality among persons age 65 and over as well as persons age 35-44. Decreasing rates among persons 35-44 years of age may be due to the fact that the birth cohorts with the highest prevalence of infection moved beyond this age range during the study, whereas the reasons for decreases in persons age 65 are not clear. Rates among persons age 45-54 leveled in the last 2 years of the study, whereas rates among persons age 55-64 continued a strong upward trend. Decedents age 55-64 comprised a growing proportion of persons in the high prevalence birth cohort, 1945-1964, through the study period, explaining the continued rise in mortality rates in this group.

Due to the predicted rise in the prevalence of persons with long-term chronic HCV infection through 2015,[10] models have forecast overall hepatitis C-related mortality to continue to increase over the next decade.[11] Beyond the cohort effects described above, the reasons for the small decline observed in overall mortality rates, if sustained, are not clear. Improvements in survival because of advances in treatment and liver transplantation could delay or prevent some of the anticipated hepatitis C-related mortality. Alternatively, the variable course of chronic HCV infection, reflected imprecisely in mathematical models of hepatitis C natural history, might result in mortality curves that diverge from predicted trends. It will be necessary to continue to monitor hepatitis C-related mortality over time to determine whether the small recent decline represents the beginning of a trend or a temporary fluctuation.

[nygirl7]

I hope that you are being actively monitored and biopsied on a fairly regular bi-yearly basis if you are past stage 2.

The fact of life is that liver damage does not progress linearly.  Meaning it could take 20 years to get to stage 2 but after that you could become cirrhotic in only a few years.  Unfortunately once you are - you are and there is no changing that. Aside from that, HepC also leads to other chronic illnesses and problems.

Many of us feel that giving this disease opportunity to get to the point where we would need to be transplanted is something that is just not necessary as there are meds that can lead to a cure.

Personally, getting it over with and not taking the chance on being even one of the 20% (which I believe is quite low) to me made more sense than waiting around to fall in to that category.

It's like having a slow growing skin cancer.........why wait until it's too late and metastisized rather than chop it out right now?

[Willy50]

Vertex has also alleged such stuff.  At issue is continuing to conform to old assessments of the virus.  They were also made at a time when the treatment success rates were.....not so good.  I don't know how much was science and what percentage was panacea.

Vertex has referred to a study which seems to suggest that cirrhosis is virtually unavoidable if one lives long enough with the virus.  I have several answers to that;
1)  yes; that would be the study of choice IF one was selling a drug TX
2)  It may be that a "call to arms" against a virus that will kill you in 40 years may leave an opportunity to wait.  Some of us don't have to fight against this menace with rocks; we could wait 3 years and fight it with guns or wait 10 years and perhaps fight it in a one week bout of TX with improved treatment. (nukes.  ; )
3)  The old stats were also based on a population that for the most part wasn't even aware that they had a virus that could kill them.  They couldn't or didn't mitigate any number of lifestyle choices that could have saved their lives.  They say 2/3'ds of us have yet to be diagnosed.
        I guess I wonder about the science of telling people how "long they have to live".
Intuition tells you that this will be an imprecise science.  Consider 3 groups;  lets say people who drink and drug and who progressed quickly and died of ASLD.  Would they be an accurate group to for estimation of peoples odds.....or even the larger group (not substance abusers but ) that died in a shorter period of time?
        Then there is a group......the entire spectrum of HCV infected from the most sick or the ones with the best prognosis.  They would be the group where one would be able to demonstrate the range of what one could expect of the virus.  When one averages the numbers.... (keep in mind; they still estimate 2/3rds of us are undiagnosed) and looks at the worst result and the best result and puts them into an actuarial table and then distills that table to a few sentences..... will that be "the truth?"
          
There is perhaps a final group.  What would happen if one took people who knew full well that they had the virus and armed with some information was able to make some lifestyle changes.  Maybe they stopped smoking tobacco or pot, didn't drink, didn't over eat or made wiser food choices based on their HCV positive status.  What if they exercised..... and monitored their health.  What would be the prognosis of this group?  WE DON"T KNOW.    Lol; is there anyone in that group?  ; )  I think that people in boards may be more likely to populate that group.

My point is that one has to be careful asserting the outcome.  I think that in many ways this virus is worse that they first thought.....and in a way it could also be more benign than many people think.  We are currently left with incomplete data to chart our courses.  Knock on wood; much of this discussion will become moot with the advent of better forms of treatment.  We won't need to see what happens to our group in 30 more years.  Most of us will treat in the next 3-5-7 years is my guess.

best,
Willy