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Who has the juice?
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Who has the juice?

I am ready for that juice now!!
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74 Comments Post a Comment
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We never did get the juice update, did we?
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What juice??!!
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Ahem.
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That was a joke! All those people who have all these cures. Herbs and juice.
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Got it. Snake oil salesmen.
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A drug made from rattlesnake venom may be able successfully to treat victims of stroke, researchers have claimed.
The researchers claim the experimental drug, called Ancrod, lowers levels of a blood-clotting substance in the blood and may be able to reverse the effects of a stroke.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/272378.stm
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Many pharmaceutical drugs used in western medicine are made from plants or the properties of plants have inspired their development (Sheldon et al., 1997). Among the early isolates were morphine from Papaver somniferum (1803), strychnine from Strychnos nux-vomica (1818), quinine from Cinchona (1821) and codeine from Papaver somniferum (1837).


http://www.plantlife.org.uk/international/plantlife-med-plants-what-are-med-plants-pharm.htm
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In the USA, 25% of all prescriptions dispensed from community pharmacies between 1959 and 1980 contained plant extracts or active principles prepared from higher plants (Farnsworth et al., 1985).
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In keeping with the spirit of this thread and to show that exploratory investigation of HCV treatment options may pack a few surprises to the establishment, here is a berry for thought from Science News, dated yesterday and taken from the Journal of Biological Chemistry:

"MIYAZAKI, Japan, Aug. 10 (UPI) -- Japanese scientists say they've discovered a chemical found in blueberry leaves can help block the replication of the hepatitis C virus.

The researchers, led by Hiroaki Kataoka and colleagues at the University of Miyazaki, said the discovery opens a new avenue for treating chronic hepatitis C infections. Currently, there is no vaccine for HCV, and although a combination drug regimen can clear HCV infection, the scientists said that treatment is only about 60 percent effective and poses risks of severe side effects."

http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2009/08/10/Blueberry-leaves-may-kill-hepatitis-C/UPI-40191249938475/
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Maybe a blueberry pie cure is out there on the horizion!
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Asprin is made from the bark of the willow tree.
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The most exciting breakthrough since grapefruit juice,which was the most exciting breakthrough since licorice root.
I'm selling my Vertex stock right now and will start stockpiling blueberry leaves
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Ephedra is a shrub-like plant that is found in desert regions in central Asia and other parts of the world. The dried greens of the plant are used medicinally. Ephedra is a stimulant containing the herbal form of ephedrine, an FDA-regulated drug found in over-the-counter asthma medications
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There is snake oil stuff out there,just like in any thing else,but you have to have the knowledge and common sense to see whts good ,also what might help one persom may not help another,just like the snythetic drugs
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I think we should make a blend of blue algae, blueberries, bark of the willow tree and Ephedra and sell it online and split all the profits on our miracle cure.

We can call it Heppers De-lite.
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What your common sense told you was good was peg-interferon,ribavirin and boceprevir and plenty of it.
You could have gone the natural path but when it came to your own health it was laboratory molecules all the way.
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I had no choice but to take the triple combo from hell,i know there is nothing else that will kill the dragon.I love my mushrooms,algae ,blueberries,but to mix them in a shake....?...now that is gross
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Rockerforlife, please take your blather to some other website; or at minimum, to the social forum, where it’s less likely to be an annoyance.

Bill
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7 out of 18 not a bad post ratio I'd say.
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I make my blueberry pies and shakes with blueberries, not blueberry leaves.

Blueberries aren't the subject of investigation, although perhaps the scientists gobble up the berries as they study the leaves.

The leaves as proanthocyandin can poison you.

Rocker, what Bill says makes sense to me. Best regards.
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byproduct?
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It is easier to laugh when the conventional medicines worked for you.  Once you have tried it all ,have cirrhosis with no hope in sight,it isn't thatfunny.  In case someone does find a natural and available product that could help in some small way, I would hate to think they might be too intimidated by the scoffers to mention it.  I of course am disgusted with fakes trying to cheat sick people but HR's list of supplements helped a great deal and they are natural and available supplements.  Does the baby have to go out with the bath water? We are at the end of the road with nothing left to try and I feel very sad and will check out blueberry leaves just in case.
Ev
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Amen,i cant figuer out why some peolple are so against natural foods.
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HR is smart man,even hes into natural healing
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Rockerforlife: Of course, but Hepatitis Researcher was housetrained.

Ev: I don’t take your husbands situation lightly at all; if I somehow left that impression, you have my apologies. I’m nearly certain that the earth holds cures for this damnable disease; and they will very likely be inspired by natural substances. I hope we can arrive at a resolution soon, and you and he can get on with your lives.
Again, my sincere apologies if I have hurt you in some way; I’m rooting for both of you,

Bill
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In certain concentrations, blueberry leaf compounds are toxic. Caveat emptor.

Systematically determining a safe concentration while at the same time investigating it for its effectiveness (or ultimately not) is crucial.

I remember very clearly when cynics scoffed at  the properties of a certain tree, investigated by scientists for breast cancer tx. I'm referring to tamoxifen, today a mainstay in current breast cancer protocol and an at least temporary miracle for many.

It's a hard road to travel when conventions don't work. Many good wishes to you.
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Sorry Bill.   I just feel very depressed and vulnerable right now.  We have tried so hard and Joe has suffered so much and we are hitting the brick wall again.  He has been on Interferon/Riba and Alinia for a year and almost 3 months and at the last count his viral load went from 80 up to 300. (They lowered his ribavirin after needing a transfusion and lowering Riba is always the kiss of death for his Tx) He was already on procrit twice a week and that still couldn't keep his hgb. high enough.  The last 24 months he was switched to Infergen from Pegasys.  Next week he gets his final labs and if he isn't undetectable, he will have to quit.  This deadline getting so close has my emotions all stirred up.  
I'm not mad at anyone...just sad and weary.
I have always loved your posts and read them first. You have been kind and patient to help so many people.
Ev


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Thank you.  I will be very cautious.  
I didn't know that about Tamoxifen but it is very interesting.
Ev
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If you want something which might help,is nothing to do with leaves and berries and is arousing the interest of the medical establishment try this,

http://ihealthbulletin.com/blog/2009/06/02/losartan-prevent-liver-fibrosis-hepatitis-c/

The drug is easily availible and the early data looks good-the trial was on Clinicaltrials.gov and so was FDA compliant.
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How about looking into Dr. Zhang's protocol. He is in NYC, a doctor in both TCM and conventional medicine. He seems to be highly respected amongst Mount Sinai, John Hopkins etc and also in China and Japan. He does NOT claim to be able to cure hep c, but seems to be able to help halt or even reverse some of the fibrosis going on. I don't know if this also applies to a cirrhotic liver, but I think it would be worth just checking it out. the link is www.sinomedresearch.org.
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I asked the gastro that is going to do Joe's endoscopy, and probably band his varicies when he is in there, about Losartan because he already takes Nadolol to keep his blood pressure very low to help the portal hypertension. ( This Gastro is not on the cutting edge but he is close to home and does fine on the routine stuff that is standard) He still knows next to nothing about Alinia!  He didn't think Lorartan could be substituted for Nadolol.  We have an appt. with his Tx Dr. in St. louis which is very progressive and I will ask them at that time if this is a possibility. Joe's blood pressure is not high to begin with but I guess lowering the portal pressure and the overall blood pressure is not the same thing.  
I appreciate you for reminding me of this.  I had kind of forgotten and I don't want to lose my chance to ask . I will come armed with studies...they love this.:>)
Ev
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I'm not against Dr. Zhang's herbs and have done some reading but we live in the Midwest and 6 yrs. of fighting this disease has severely impacted our resources.  New York might as well be overseas to us.  His decoctions are very mysterious to me and I don't see any way to do that without being able to go to Dr. Zhang.  HR's protocol had similar results for Joe and I was able to buy the supplies and shop for the best deals.  We only stopped them because Joe's labs became good enough to try Tx again. Some of them were pretty cost prohibitive also and I had to rotate them but they still helped a lot.
Thanks for your ideas and I'm happy for the favorable outcome of your treatment.
Ev
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Thank you Ev! I pray that you will be able to find the right solution and that good things will come your way.
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Have you tried  any of the mushroom extracts,they make the body produce its own interferon  and T-fighter cells,also drink only puified water.Virgin coconut oil is amazing too as its  ihe only oil thats not processed by the liver,also use organic whey and eggs for you protein,the liver dont work as hard processing.Tumeric ia great too
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Anf load up on organic greens,i like the algaes,like spirlina and the extracts
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Thanks for the suggestions.  We have tried lots of things from time to time including a few mushrooms but like I've said, HR's suggestions were the only things that ever showed measurable results.  Joe likes eggs but I've been buying the Egg Beater variety because the recent article on diet and liver disease said that eating food high in cholesterol was not what you want.  A lot of what might work well at a low stage of damage, doesn't work well after crossing the cirrhosis threshold.  It changes the game really.  Even before the latest article on eating a low protein, high carbohydrate diet(healthy carbs of course) came out, I had already experimented enough with Joe's diet to see he improved on a vegetarian diet.  The diet is much harder to contend with while on Tx because he ends up eating whatever he feels he can stand rather than making the best nutritional choice. He eats vegetables much better when not on Tx.  He eats a lot of fruit though.  
Turmeric (Curcugel or Super Bio Curcumin is one of HR's supplements so he takes that when not on Tx.) HR said not to take it while treating because it is an anti inflammatory so could possibly slow response to Interferon.  
Thanks again for your thoughts,
Ev
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did you  say juice??? hush while I slip into my mother earth mode...

hey give me some...I'll be yer huckleberry.. original of all originals..I was the original juicer....a gallon a day of carrot juice, and raw beet and clelery added to cleanse the liver...yum. No kiddin here.(of course beets and HCV don't mix (iron too high).

anyway

But what really was my crown of glory
(or shame depending on how you look at it)

was my FAMOUS SLUG JUICE !!!!!!!   that's right you heard it hear first!!

I used to collect slugs and grind em up in my blender!!

I'd even sell you some now if you want it!!  Happy to.

Actually this had a useful purpose
(confess now you whacky mutha)

Well I'd dribble that there slug juice all around my organic garden...
up down and all around the thing....
the slugs would smell their brethren rottin' around and hightail it outta there.
It works, and is safer than slug bait (for your pets and birds that stuff baits bad)

wheel there you have it.
'ceptin my old man would never let me blend him up nothin' in that there blender after'n he got a load of my slimmey creAtion.
oh well...

so who wants a slug o' my juice?????      ; )

mb

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Ya gotta be kiddin,right.?
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Oxidative stress is a major factor in the pathogenesis of hep c.

http://ajpgi.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/290/5/G847

From the intro:
"HCV infection is characterized by a systemic oxidative stress that is most likely caused by a combination of chronic inflammation, iron overload, liver damage, and proteins encoded by HCV. The increased generation of reactive oxygen and nitrogen species, together with the decreased antioxidant defense, promotes the development and progression of hepatic and extrahepatic complications of HCV infection."

That is why many open-minded doctors recommend a full complement of antioxidant vitamins, supplements, herbs (gasp!), berries (gulp!), and juice (oh noes!!!) as part of a multi=pronged approach to dealing with hep c.

Mike H
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antioxidant vitamins, supplements, herbs (gasp!), berries (gulp!), and juice (oh noes!!!)

Thts it,do not pass go,do not collect 100 dollars and straight to jail
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Hi there:i notice you are into healhly living as well as me,whats you take on the mushrooms extracts and algae extracts?..and coconut oils
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You crack me up! But you were who I really wanted to talk to today. You know all the herbal stuff and will know what really does work to keep the inflamation (inflammation) down.
Remember I'm the one who posted about the grapefruit and got everyone all upset. Glad to know blueberries help also. I got the the grapefruit thing from Science Daily also. It all has to do with the fat and the HepC attaching itself to that.
I know its not a cure!
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BTW...that site mhudnall posted is a keeper

http://ajpgi.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/290/5/G847

I thank you
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The only way to kill the bug is to do the pharma drugs,there is nothing wrong with eating heallty and taking the right supplemets and foods,as long as they dont affect the TX drugs and you do your research first,throwing out the baby with the bath water is a good way for population control only....lots of babies i see on the side walk
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And I can't remember the name of that mushroom which will increase you interferon. I did take it before my treatment. I know my viral count went down from the original diagnose. I stopped eating a lot of fat, sugar and began taking a whole butt load of vitamins. I didn't want to interfer with my TX so I stopped everything. I still have two different mushrooms but can't remember which is which.
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HI Cindy,

Very sorry to hear about your relapse. I did not get through treatment (12 weeks) so I know about the issues of post-treatment without SVR and I sympathize.

Here are the antiinflammatory herbs I take - turmeric, rosemary, holy basil, green tea, ginger, coptis, barberry, chinese skullcap, japanese knotwood (polygonum caspidatum).

Selenium is an important antioxidant.

Milk thistle is good for the liver, but I am not sure about its antioxidant potential.

Alpha Lipoic acid is an excellent antioxidant because it is both water and fat soluble.

Vitamin C  and vitamin E are vitamin antioxidants, with C being water-soluble and E being fat soluble.

The fat soluble antioxidants are at a premium because free radicals wreak havoc on fats. Steatosis is intracellular fat, primarily Omega 6 fatty acids which are converted to arachidonic acid. The arachidonic acid pathway is the official scientific term for inflammation. So inflammation is all about fats, and their metabolism and oxidation (lipid peroxidation).

Much of the damage done by hep c is membrane based. Cell membranes are lipid bilayers, composed of a water soluble outer membrane and an inner core of fats. Those fats are 80% phosphatidylcholine, so supplementation of that can help mitigate the effects of membrane damage caused by hep c. It can also reduce fibrosis.

Vegetable oil is heavy in Omega 6's (bad stuff!). Omega 3's inhibit omega 6's and are also antioxidant. So the fish oils, flax, etc. are very important.

Fruits and vegetable are full of polyphenols, which are dietary antioxidants. Oregon caneberries are high in polyphenols, acai as well. Bee pollen is very high in polyphenols. Bee propolis is extremely high in both water and fat soluble polyphenols.

Rocker - agaricus blazei is supposed to be the best mushroom for hep c. I don't know about algae.

Hep c patients have special needs in regards to increased antioxidants due to the utilization of free radicals in the pathogenesis of hep c. I hope that helps you.

Best wishes!

Mike H
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Thank YOU! I knew you guys would help me out! One of these days I'm going to throw my own party and all are invited.
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Same with me,all tru TX  i stopped all vitamin pills and supplements,i just ate all organic foods.Now that im finshed TX im back into my normal heath regime


herbal preparation "Compound Codyceps-TCM-700C (CC-700C)" was tested for hepatoprotective effect against the carbon tetrachloride induced liver damages in Sprague-Dawley rat model for a period of 6-weeks. Two dosage levels of CC-700C, respectively 286.2 mg/kg-bw (L-TCM) and 2862 mg/kg-bw (H-TCM), and a positive control Silymarin (Sigma) were used to compare their therapeutic effect. Both CC-700C's and Silymarin showed nontoxic in nature, as evidenced by body weight gain, organ weights and appearance including liver, spleen, and kidney. The activities of aspartate aminotransferase (AST) and alanine-aminotransferase (ALT) were more effectively suppressed by CC-700C than Silymarin. In addition, all levels of serum bilirubin, serum albumin, triglyceride (TG), total cholesterol (TC), platelet count (PLT), and prothombin time (PT) except TG were shown effectively restored to normal values by CC-700C and Silymarin. Moreover, although levels of glutathione (GSH), glutathione reductase (GSH-Rd), and superoxide dismutase (SOD) were equally maintained by these three preparations, glutathione peroxidase (GSH-Px) was suppressed only by H-TCM, and SOD only by Silymarin. In contrast, the activity of catalase efficiently recovered to control level on administration of CC-700C, being far better than Silymarin. Finally the liver collagen content, an indication of fibrosis, was also significantly suppressed by CC-700C, better effect was by L-TCM, but both levels were superior to Silymarin. Conclusively, the herbal preparation "Compound Cordyceps TCM-700C" is a potent hepatoprotective preparation. For therapeutic use, a dosage of 286.2 mg/kg-bw would be sufficiently effective.



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19596425?ordinalpos=3&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
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Rocker,

Year cordyceps is the other one that's good.

Cindy, Here is the on grapefruit:
NIH/NLM/PubMed (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18393287)

Hepatology. 2008 May;47(5):1437-45.

Apolipoprotein B-dependent hepatitis C virus secretion is inhibited by the grapefruit flavonoid naringenin.

Nahmias Y, Goldwasser J, Casali M, van Poll D, Wakita T, Chung RT, Yarmush ML.
Center for Engineering in Medicine, Shriners Burns Hospital, Boston, MA, USA. ynahmias@...

Hepatitis C virus (HCV) infects over 3% of the world population and is the leading cause of chronic liver disease worldwide. HCV has long been known to associate with circulating lipoproteins, and its interactions with the cholesterol and lipid pathways have been recently described. In this work, we demonstrate that HCV is actively secreted by infected cells through a Golgi-dependent mechanism while bound to very low density lipoprotein (vLDL). Silencing apolipoprotein B (ApoB) messenger RNA in infected cells causes a 70% reduction in the secretion of both ApoB-100 and HCV. More importantly, we demonstrate that the grapefruit flavonoid naringenin, previously shown to inhibit vLDL secretion both in vivo and in vitro, inhibits the microsomal triglyceride transfer protein activity as well as the transcription of 3-hydroxy-3-methyl-glutaryl-coenzyme A reductase and acyl-coenzyme A:cholesterol acyltransferase 2 in infected cells. Stimulation with naringenin reduces HCV secretion in infected cells by 80%. Moreover, we find that naringenin is effective at concentrations that are an order of magnitude below the toxic threshold in primary human hepatocytes and in mice.

CONCLUSION: These results suggest a novel therapeutic approach for the treatment of HCV infection.

PMID: 18393287 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE

Looking forward to the party!

Mike H
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No offence,but that strain of mushroom is in question,"Agaricus blazei "like i say ,you have to some intense research,its still not proven,as it may have been other factors involved,but when in doubt,throw it out


Mukai H, Watanabe T, Ando M, Katsumata N.
Division of Oncology/Hematology, National Cancer Center Hospital East, Kashiwa, Chiba, Japan. ***@****

We report three cases of patients with advanced cancer who showed severe hepatic damage, and two of whom died of fulminant hepatitis. All the patients were taking Agaricus blazei (Himematsutake) extract, one of the most popular complementary and alternative medicines among Japanese cancer patients. In one patient, liver functions recovered gradually after she stopped taking the Agaricus blazei, but she restarted taking it, which resulted in deterioration of the liver function again. The other patients who were admitted for severe liver damage had started taking the Agaricus blazei several days before admission. Although several other factors cannot be completely ruled out as the causes of liver damage, a strong causal relationship between the Agaricus blazei extract and liver damage was suggested and, at least, taking the Agaricus blazei extract made the clinical decision-making process much more complicated. Doctors who are aware of their patients taking the extract may accept it probably because they believe there is no harm in a complementary and alternative medicine. When unexpected liver damage is documented, however, doctors should consider the use of the Agaricus blazei extract as one of its causal factors. It is necessary to evaluate many modes of complementary and alternative medicines, including the Agaricus blazei extract, in rigorous, scientifically designed and peer-reviewed clinical trials.

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17105737
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There is lots of studies proving this shroom  helps liver function tho,looks like the cancer and other things were proberly the cause of this.
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YIKS! Thanks to you both. I'll check it out!
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Hey Rocker,

Man, I see your point, and on its face it seems like a reasonable warning. The problem that I see is this is not a study, it's three case histories. As they say, agaricus is commonly used in Japan by cancer patients. The fact that they only have come up with three suspect cases makes me wonder.

I've taken a lot of both agaricus and cordyceps while having my labs done, and I did not experience deleterious effects from either. I guess my question is, if you need rigorous studies to establish efficacy, shouldn't you also need them to establish harmful effects? I've seen that double standard pretty often in medical science.

That being said, I don't take mushrooms now, but only because I think there are more effective things to take, not because I'm worried about them.
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heres another study thats claims good results from this Agaricus blazei ,ill bet the the cancer patients in the preious post had a batch with some kind of food poisioning involved...if i had cancer tho,i think i would back off on taking them.

Our findings suggest that previous treatment with A. blazei exerts a "hepatoprotective"effect on both liver toxicity and hepatocarcinogenesis process induced by a moderately toxic dose of DEN.



Abstract
The modifying potential of prior administration of an aqueous extract of the mushroom Agaricus blazei Murrill (Agaricaceae) (Ab) on hepatotoxicity induced by different doses of diethylnitrosamine (DEN) in male Wistar rats was evaluated. During 2 weeks, animals of groups G3 (Ab+DEN50), G5 (Ab+DEN100), G7 (Ab+DEN200), and G8 (Ab-treated) were treated with the A. blazei through drinking water. After this period, groups G2 (DEN50), G3 (Ab+DEN50), G4 (DEN100) G5 (Ab+DEN100), G6 (DEN200), and G7 (Ab+DEN200) were given a single i.p. injection of 50, 100 and 200 mg/kg of DEN, respectively, while groups G1 (non-treated) and G8 (Ab-treated) were treated with 0.9% NaCl only. All animals were killed 48 h after DEN or NaCl treatments. The hepatocyte replication rate was estimated by the index of the proliferating cell nuclear antigen (PCNA) positive hepatocytes and the appearance of putative preneoplastic hepatocytes through expression of the enzyme glutathione S-transferase placental form (GST-P). After DEN-treatment, ALT levels, PCNA labeling index, and the number of GST-P positive hepatocytes were lower in rats that received A. blazei treatment and were exposed to 100 mg/kg of DEN. Our findings suggest that previous treatment with A. blazei exerts a hepatoprotective effect on both liver toxicity and hepatocarcinogenesis process induced by a moderately toxic dose of DEN.

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Look at all the people who die taking pharma drugs,literally thousands a year,and 3 cancer patients full of cancer die taking them...and it wasnt a study,just a recored statistic...BTW...arent the shrooms related to the corner store white  button mushrooms?....shouldnt we all be dead by now?...i dont have cancer and ill keep eating mu shrooms...i now am eating all kinds in salads....if they were that bad they would shut down all the grocers by now after 3000 years of consumption...no worries here
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By the way,
Have you ever seen the natural variety of cordyceps? In the Himalayas around 13,000 feet caterpillars burrow through the ground. They eat the spores of cordyceps, the spores eventually kill the caterpillar and gestate inside the corpse, using the caterpillars guts as nutrients. Eventually the mushroom head blooms out of the mouth of the caterpillar! I have one in a bottle, very weird looking indeed!

In China they sell the whole caterpillar/mushrooms in the market by weight. You have to be careful because sometimes they stuff bee-bees in the caterpillar's *** to bump the weight and the price up.

Watch out for the bee-bees!

Mike H
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I had not seen that study about cordyceps.  I'd seen another using cordycep senesis and astragalus along with interferon/riba.  The results were impressive.  
I have been getting the cordyceps from Swanson vitamin.  They have an almost good smell to me.  I bought them from another source that smelled very bad.  A little worrisome as to why they didn't smell the same. Needless to say, I stuck to the Swanson brand.
Joe's enzymes have been really good on Tx.
Ev
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Hi Ev,

Always nice to hear from you.

I hope you and Joe are doing well. Always hoping for the best.

MikeH
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Those are what i eat,but they cultivate them now on food,rice in particular,ive taken them before i strated my TX and am now back to taking the" killer shroom"they kill 2 birds with one stone...they are excellent at raising the Killer T cell in the human body and fight viruses ,the wild cordyceps are $5000/lb
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i get mine from" new chapter "....all organic and tested for contaminates,,you also  have to watch the companies that make them,jusy like anything else,all kinds of ripp  off health products on the market
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Comments by Dr. Sahelian: For the time being, limit your intake of agaricus supplement to maximum 3 times a week and a full week off each month. It is not clear at this time whether the problem was with the particular agaricus supplement these patient were using, i.e, Himematsutake as it is called in Japan, or whether the problem of liver harm applies to all agaricus extract brands. Was the Himematsutake product these Japanese cancer patients were taking contaminated with something else? It is also not clear whether the liver problem is dose dependent. Sometimes patients with cancer will take a very high amount of a supplement thinking more is better. It is also not clear whether the liver damage occurred due to the fact that these patients may have been on chemotherapy drugs which weakened their liver and immune system.


http://www.raysahelian.com/agaricus.html
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I suggest if you still are into  mushrooms,or anyfoods,go organic.you dont know what kind of perservative was used and other chemicials.Even nitrogen based fertilzers are not good.
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nope, I'm not kidding.
I've always been an organic gardener, had a farm and 500 critters for many years.

I also sprinked dried blood around the garden, this works for keeping away most rodents, rabbits, mice moles etc, as well as deer...again, the smell of blood means something died, and that their may be a predator around...hence the deer avoided my garden thankfully...although it never worked on my goats, when they got out they always made a bee line for my garden..., they'll go anywhere and eat anything.
Used a few drops of dishsoapy water in a spray bottle for most unfriendly insects and aphids...works better than pesticides (saves money too...thats all those fancy "organic bug sprays are...save a bundle and put 5 drops in your own water..

Cindy...I'd read up more on grapefruit if I were you...there are really more cautionary thing that you realize regarding grapefruit. It interacts with many medications and can make you sicker rather than better. Check out Pubmed, just search for grapefruit interactions.

the Mayo clinic has a great site dealing with the toxicity of many herbs, mushrooms etc...it's well worth a visit.
even berry,beet, red meat etc must be curtailed with liver disease or you run the risk of iron overload, and liver cancer will follow on the heels of that. (HCC)

That doesn't mean that everyone must avoid these entirely, but you need to know your stage/grade and whether iron is accumulating in your liver, and keep an eye on your iron levels with blood work, otherwise you will be setting yourself up for more problems.

mb
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Here is a quote from a past post by Merrybe that I saved because it is interesting. It is also on point with her post above:

"A recent study showed that grapefruit juice lowered viral load, because there's a bioflavanoid in grapefruit juice that inhibits CYP3A4.  

HOWEVER, the problem with inhibiting CYP450 enzymes is that many prescription drugs are metabolized by these enzymes..... and by inhibiting them, that can raise the level of the drug in your blood and it can cause an overdose.  (taking Tylenol and alcohol together can cause the level of Tylenol to be toxic.  That's why we always tell people that Tylenol by itself is not really a problem but never to take it with alcohol).

So for example, if you take a blood pressure medication that is metabolized by CYP3A4, inhibiting this enzyme with grapefruit juice may  raise the levels of the blood pressure med in your blood and IN YOUR LIVER....and it can cause an overdose (and your blood pressure to go down too low).

So if you want to lower your viral load by drinking grapefruit juice, you'll need to make sure that you're not taking any meds that are metabolized by CYP450.

(WARNING: Do not drink grapefruit juice during HCV treatment since it can cause oxidative stress and impact treatment success.  Also, be aware that the effect from a small amount of grapefruit juice can last all day).



Basically, in my experience, II found that a lot of stuff that was of value while off treatment was not of value on treatment. I should have qualified my former post. I plead mea culpa.

Best regards,

Mike H
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You eat slimy slugs  in your morning protein shakes??? ya right....i guess im one to talk,here i am eating a mushroom(fungus) that takes host inside of a baby butterfly(grub) and the fungus kills the grum and uses its nutrients to grow out of the head.I also eat slimy pond scum(bacteria)...we both could come up with a good recipe.
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THANKS mike for remembering all that for me...I am so swamped with taxes right now I have to sneak in here for 10 minutes just for relief (closing my S Corp on my own is hell personified), but that leaves me a little addled and not giving enough info in here.

So thanks for that save !!  Off chemo for 2 months and readind through 700 pages of corporatae tax law was not how I imagined my summer going.

Rocker...dude...joke...I never drank the stuff, I just poured it around the garden to scare off slugs..(although that was gross enough)
just josin" ya...since ya'all were joshin"....I'm not drinking pond scum or algea either...someone will have to prove in spades that's a cure before it crosses my lips.
Although, I did use some natural cures I researched them well first.
For instance I cured my allergies with extra C and a couple other immune system boosters that Linus Pauling (nobel prize winner) recommended, and induced my own labor for a late baby with herbs (much safer than the pharmaceuticals for inducting labor)...however you have to do a lot of research to make sure the science and the claims match. I used to spend hours in the library reading medical journals and research to make sure I got MORE than the naturalist view points...like the microbiologists..HELLO.....and I begged for old journals from the docs I worked for so that I ended up basically with a roomful of research....but that's all become MUCH easier now....in the 60's and 70's getting good info was no easy task.

all that said, I am intrigued by some of the research on the mushrooms...I say SOME.
my wait and see attitude on that however is because the cumulative effect of even micrograms of the wrong primordial fungi. I used to pick the brain of a friend who was a specialist in mushroom culture and so it was no surprise to me when a few folks died of accute liver failure from one bite of the wrong mushroom.

My concern would be a. that a legit lab and double blinds be done, and that controls be in place to get pharmaceutical grade product if it did work (because otherwise every tom **** and harry could be slicing up store bought mushrooms and capping them and selling them on the internet to unsuspecting desperate folks)...and trust me they will.
ALSO what makes the mushroom work? Is it an irritant that stimulates the immune system and due to that irritation the liver and immune system tries harder to regenerate(remember it only takes a few Micrograms of some fungi to die,  so few micrograms you can't even see with the naked eye)...so I'd want to learn a lot more about all this before giving it the green light.
BTW, the idea of a toxin to regenerate and cause immune response is not new, it's what homeopathics is mostly about, it's what the guy that really invented homeopathics was into....most folks don't know that because they never read his book....they just took the sulfer 3x or phosphorus 10x thinking they were to take what they were LOW in...but in reality his theory was that the opposite mineral to what you needed would trigger a better response...all very convoluted...and also you may know that arthritics uses bee venom, get stung, to stimuate a healing response by stressing the immune system...more examples exist. But in the case of mushrooms this all COULD backfire because of the microtoxins and the fact that its the liver that must try to handle such things. So I'd want to see some LONG term studies and on some really SICK rat livers etc before I'd sign up as a lab rat...if you follow. And just because something is "NATURAL" doesn't mean some greedy biologist can't make millions of of this if he "proves" it works....later someone else may "prove" his fuzzy science, but meanwhile he's MADEOFF with not just your money but your health as well...so don't believe everything you read anywhere, including pubmed.

mb
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Good morning.on my way out to get my last blood dram for my last PCR results,will have the result In Aug 20.BTW,i dont eat pond scum or any other food or nutrient to "cure" anything.i eat them because it prevents disease and makes me feel great,i am 51 years old and i feel land look like im 20....also i have done the research on the algae and i dont even need it now,i have personal family friends who had major problems and are now "cured".I had problems too with tennis elbow from working on the CNC computer at work on machie and my elbows were" cured "almost overnite.Cured is a foured lteered word to me,all that gets done to make any-body better to  feed the cells the proper nutrients,gotta run.
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Ther is an older woman who live across from me who is 80 years old and who was in pain and had arthritis for years and i gave her a bottle for free and within one week she was banging on my door almost crying and saying it chaged her life,now shes never home.always going to jaxx concerts ,her hand s wre seized up before she started taking it and now they are compleelt normal and the color of her skin has gone to a healthy normal.i could go on .my brother,my mother and more...not trying to be rude,but it you dont belive me...i dont care...lol
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Grapefruit juice has been proven to be a dangerous food/drink when injested with certain medications, mainly beta-blockers, but also some anti-cancer drugs. It also is bad for the enamel of our teeth and neutralizes friendly bacteria in the stomach.
I was told not to eat or drink grapefruit because it is  suspect to concentrate medications.
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Mushrooms and algae are just food.Even the buttom white buttom mushrooms do the same as the shitake and portabella..its just that the coryceps and the other mushrooms have more nutrients...they are LOADED with minerial and vitamins and healing sugars,even proteins
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Just curious,what do you do to feed your cells??? i often post this question and no body seems to reveal what they eat.I belive food the the medicene...not in all cases mune you,but more disease comes from what we eat .or lack of,and the combo of the junk added to the food.
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I know about the meds. I had just started treatment when I read the article about the grapefruit and was in the health food store to by some in pill form. My friend who works there stopped me thank goodness. That when I came here and posted the first time. Looked up the drugs which they know will not work with grapefruit and mine were'nt listed. Ask my dr. he said go ahead. Bought some and couldn't stand the acid with the treatment. Stopped. Grapefruit juice fermented. Ha, ha! No, I didn't drink it.
Wow, you guys know your herbs! Know your drugs! I am impressed and thankful. You know Trinity is screaming right now. She keeps it balanced.
I'm sending my sister to this thread for gardening advice.
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Nice nod of the head to Dr. Linus Pauling. He and Dr. Abram Hofer were basically the founders of orthomolecular nutrition (megadose vitamin therapy).

Mushrooms aside, there is plenty of evidence that endogenous substances (substances that the body makes or utilizes) can be very therapeutic. Alpha Lipoic Acid is made by the body, but levels decrease as you age. Vitamins are essential, and though some forms are toxic in large doses, many are quite therapeutic in megadose form. Glutathione is important for your body's native antioxidant system. Phosphatidylcholine is a fatty acid that comprises 80% of your cell membranes. All of the above are therapeutic supplements for hep c patients, orally and in IV form. Some quite significantly so.

Not to say that some foreign substances cannot be therapeutic as well - I do some of those as well. I also do grapefruit juice, but the only drug I take is Low
Dose Naltrexone and there is no interaction - however, I do the grapefruit juice in the morning and the LDN at night just to make sure.

Mike H
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