i'm back! i've been in pakistan for a month now...i'm researching ancient ayurvedic(indian) and unani(ancient greek) treatments for hepatitis C.
as i posted on this forum earlier, an army doctor hcv specialist got infected on the job, relapsed with conventional treatment, and claims to have been cured of HCV by the following ancient Unani (Greek) treatment formula. i got the english names for some of the herbs. here it is , again.
solanum nigrum fruits (mako in Urdu) 1 tablespoon
Cichorium intybus crushed flowers/seeds (kasni in Urdu/Arabic) 1 tablespoon
Anab, 3 or 4 fruits (a tiny delicious fruit, unknown origin , possibly of chicorium intybus)
Nymphaea lotus flowers, crushed (nilofer in persian) 1 tablespoon
Figs, dried, 2 in number.
soak ingredietns overnight in 125 ml of water in a clay bowl (clay possibly due to ionization properties).
in the morning, take it on an empty stomach by the following method: mash all ingredients and strain thru linen in the morning. add water to derived strained liquid to make 1 glass. mix 1 teaspoon of honey and drink.
dont eat anything for 1 hour after that to allow for maximum absorption and concentration in the blood.
I'm a firm believer in the use of herbs to reduce side effects during IFN treatment and even delay disease progression before treatment, but nothing is going to knock down viral load or get you to undetectable except interferon, preferably with a side order of ribavirin.
i say dont knock it. anything is possible. there are many herbs & plants that we have never investigated that could be cures for various diseases. most of western medicine rx is derived from plants. all i can say with me is anything i try, herbs, teas,vitamins,etc all have an adverse effect on me.
NICE, all we have to do is eat a fruit salad? Man, and I wasted all this money on meds!
Niceguy, it is good to look for alternatives, but don't believe every claim you come across. There are many, many, snake oil salesman.
I would tend to agree some with copy here. Many of our drugs today are manufactured representations of naturally occurring substances. But because the supply of naturally produce elments is too low to meet the demand, a means to synthesize them was found in order to produce them in sufficient quantities.
Even today, some natural remedies are being studied to determine what in them makes them effective in the hope of finding another silver bullet for a disease still afflicting mankind. Take our own Interferon for example, it's actually a biological representation of a natural anti-body our own bodies produce to combat the flu, hence the flu-like syptoms so many experience while on it. It's only been around 16 years now as an HCV tx and only undergone once modification 6 years ago to enhance it's half-life so that we only need a single injection per week instead of the original 3.
But, and there's always a but isn't there, one also needs to be cautious of natural remedies because of the same fact of not knowing what part of it is making it effective and also lead to other issues, such as over/under dosing the working agent and not knowing what effects other parts of the remedy may have upon the body. In other words, not fully understanding why it works, if it will work for all, what sx's it may have, how it might result in other complications.
We must remember that not all people r cured by intf n riba.
relapsers shud def give this a try.
i have a feeling this just might work cuz theres no money involved,its free. im tryin to figure out wat anab is in english.
I think it is very kind of you to go to the trouble of translating the remedy you heard of. It is also very thoughtful to think of those that have NO "cure" available to them at this time. nonresponders are left out in the cold and it bothers me very much too.
Most if not ALL drugs come from nature, people laughed at the idea that a mold could cure illness too and we have PENICILLIN as a result. It is not easy to find those ingredients here,but I wanted to thank you for the time you spent to translate it. Who knows, maybe it will work for some who has no other options.
A word of caution about solanum nigrum: some strains are poisonous while others have edible fruit when ripe. check it out on wikipedia,theres even a reference to ancient greece,which corroborates the pakistani unani herbal practitioners claim
thanks for the info-food for thought certainly....i am v interested in ancient greek sub-culture in pakistan.a remnant from Alexander the greats military foray,right?...i have read just a little about ruins and remnants -Your country has an incredible history & it's unfortunate that it has been the target of so many 'world' powers.....Be Well &thanks again
such iteresting history to be sure. I have bee studyig Albania too very iterestig peoples.
THought I am goig the wester med. route I have been busy learning all about ayurvedic teachings and unani practices. I see no reason they cant work in tandem with western med. It is powerfully interesting reading. I am seeing a practioner this friday and I will pass on what I learn to those interested.
Was really good of you to find the english names for those ingredients. Meditation, traditional chinese medicine and work with the chi pathways has bee a great interest but I've only touched on ayurvedic medicine. Our medical system and beliefs are so seriously in the hands of the pharmacuticals, we would really be amiss not to evaluate what traditions from around the world could bring us. Even if it's simply the basis for extra help or perhaps a new direction to study. We are all just human and could easily be looking at exploitation, but we wouldn't know that unless we looked well. I have amazing experiences working with meditation and chi pathways. Just what I found, but it was so far above any other method of mood altering activities, I ordered my life around making time for a couple years. Babbling again, thanks nice guy, for the continued info.
I concur with many of Kalio's thoughts. However, like with conventional medications, there is often no free lunch with alternative remedies as well. In other words, herbs, supplements, whatever, also have potential risks.
Personally, I wouldn't put anything in my mouth until I knew exactly what it is and got it OK'd by a doctor knowledgeable in liver disease.
As to the army doctor your referenced, as an "HCV specialist" I would think he would have published/documented his findings even if anecdotal. If you have access to him, maybe you could pursue this a little more and try and come up with some actual statistics. Very often -- and I'm not saying this is the case -- these anecdotal stories change as it goes from one person to the other, and often do not end up as miraculous as we would like them to be.
thanks for asking. Im ok, sick of the pain every day and tiredness and length of tx, tired of needing pain meds and not being up to my gardening and other activities but you know the feeling. This too shall pass..just not fast enough!
Hope you are hangin in hangin out and hangin o o oon
LOL timedog no I am not on a search of ancient practices for a cure. You can learn all about ayurveda here on the site I posted below and in many other places and books. You don't have to have HCV to benefit from some of these practices and ideas. I am using them as adjunct therapy.If you are intersted I can post some info on unani too.
PS. my interest in these practices came prior to finding out I had HCV. I travelled quite a bit in Indonesia in the 90's before Suharto was overthrown ( I was there when he was overthrown, quite a scary experience to see locals riding around in trucks and cars brandishig AK47's!)I made close friends there who are Hindi and was exposed to it at that time. I pick and choose the things I believe will serve me and I am certainly no expert or fanatic about it. I try to remain open to different ideas that might benefit my health and the health of my family. Plus I am stuck here not feeling good much of the time and bored so I read a lot about many things. I also have seen hundreds of foreign and domestic movies in the last year which is why I post movies and have run up quite the movie download bill in the process!
If anyone watches the Discovery Health channel, there was a special on alternative medicines and treatments.
In one of the segments, there was a story about a DR in Pakistan, that claimed he was curing people with HCV, and also alleviating alot of the sx's caused by the disease itself.
I waited for this show for days, waiting eaferly to see what this magic was, it I could put it too use, etc.
You ready for this?
His "cure", his "treatment", was stinging his patients monthly, some weekly with bees to stimulate the body's immune response to produce inteferon. Sorry, I like honey and all, but I'm not lining up to be stung weekly for anybody. There are lots of quacks out there, and lots of followers, so it seems.
Really I could care less if it worked or not.. I'm not donating my body to some "bee keeper" that likes to make his patients look like Will Smith in the movie Hitch...
If it worked, wouldn't there be further studies, research articles, factual data, etc?
Hey, I'm curing caffeine addicts with a swift blow to the top of the head...The initial shock of the blow, and the ever present throbbing pain, makes the individual forget about the physical urge to consume caffeine.. You game, looking for a quick fix? What, you don't believe it works?
"based on our multiple personal and admittedly <strong>ancedotal</strong> observations"
Halleluya!!!!!! I'm a believer! I have seen the light. Now I sit here and wait for the comet to pass the earth again so me and my fellow believers can catch a ride back to the mothership..
It's funny to see a person who debated the "ancedotal evidence" about the effectiveness of supplements and atlernative methods of medicine now come to their defense? It just amazes me at the level of hypocrisy demonstrated by some around here!!
When I was diagnosed after a major bleed in 1995 I got pretty involved in ayurdeda and even traveled to study transcendental meditation in the hope of curing myself. I didn't reach that goal and eventually got a liver transplant in 2000. But, I don't know if I could have handled the stress as well (I didn't glide through it, make no mistake about that) without meditating twice daily throughout my whole journey. I still meditate today and believe it to be an invaluable tool. But, I don't believe that if cure is your goal you're likely to reach it with ayurdeda alone. But if it's an adjunct to TX I think it might help you through. Mike
I am not advocating apitherapy, I am just saying why condemn a practice you dont know about or studies are still in progress on just because it sounds off the wall. It mgith someday help someone. It doesnt mean I have changed my mind or switched opinions to keep an open mind.
My issue with supplements and the like is that they are processed and all vitamins and minerals are available thru food so I think it is a waste of money but I know many people take them. My doctors all say 90% of those type of products are just eliminated into the toilet so I dont take any. If people do, thats their business.
sometimes it doesn't mean hypocrisy, it just means that some people come around to other ways of thinking because they retain open minds...you and I have always been advocates of herbs and supplements, but I'm sure we don't always agree on which ones are as effective, etc...there are as many opinions on these matters as there are people thinking about them...
There are so many things that scientists are in the dark about and are only just beginning to get a beat on...plants and herbs are just some of them...
And yeah, I don't like it when Joe Blow tells me that he's giving 500 bucks a month to Dr. Zhivago to cure his hep c...but to this day, when I tell certain people that the regimen of a few herbs and supplements I take (along with diet and exercise, big, big factors) are really good for my symptoms, they kind of give me that slant eye...
That's okay I figure, I'm the one taking them, and I'm the one benefitting from them, let em think what they want...if they think it's all in my head so be it...doesn't mean I won't go the conventional route like you did to eradicate the darn sucker, but I try to have an open mind about things, as much as possible...
And I agree with Jim's post that we need to consult people who are experts, but not everyone is as lucky as I am to be able to consult hepatologists that know something about these protocols...too bad...it's study and monitoring of bloods, etc. so much goes into all of this...and I agree that the people who are non-responders and relapsers need something as well, except being able to congratulate all the SVR people...if they can find something to make them feel better, and maybe take down inflammation...good on them...
Are you serious? There was numerous threads about supplements, and alternative methods of treating HCV, and most of which supported by lengthy arguments addressed soley by myself.Hey, you chimed it quite frequently tooo!!
The member I am refering to above, continously stated how alternative meds and treatments where bogus, and completely "ancedotal".. I can refer you to the comments if a refresher is needed. Now to see that same member supporting them , and even going as far as providing a link in which the conclusion the Dr's come too, is that they are basing their findings on personal experience and ancedotal observations just amazes me.. That my dear is hypocrisy.
Though it is quite comforting and reassuring to see that my previous debates helped "open the mind" of that naysayer, and provided the fuel to trigger curiosity into the realistic possibilities that alternative medicine does truely provide..
I think alternative medicine is a life saver for many..The ones researched and studied, with documented factual conclusions and proven tract records of results. I believe in many forms. As you know, I swore by stone therapy during tx to alleviate stress and ease the mind. I just hate to see when desperation gets the upper hand over logic and reason.
You might want to send this formula to Michael Tierra, a Santa Cruz, California-based herbalist--you can contact him through his website. (Has a couple books out that integrate Ayurvedic, TCM & Western herbalism.) I know that he's in contact with a doc in Chicago who swears by another Ayurvedic formula for clearing Hep C. Personally, I'm skeptical about being able to achieve a negative PCR with this, but hey, I'd love to be proven wrong. At any rate, Tierra would definitely be the person to discuss this with.
hey, if you ever catch some Red Snappers, can you freeze dry them and send them to me? boy I love em, with a little bit of garlic butter and seasoning, grilled with a baked potato and veggies....I'm addicted...
Im glad meditation was mentioned, something I keep getting into, then falling off, getting into, then falling off...it's so silly I do this, cause I feel sooooo much better on so many levels when I consistenly do it...guess it's my ego fighting with my higher self, or however you want to term it...hate when that happens...gonna go do it right now, have a good night everyone...
Although urine would never make it into my diet there are some uses. Years ago, when my wife and I were going thru IVF she was prescribed a bunch of hormone injections before and after embyro transfer. One of the ingredients in these hormones: urine from post menapausal women (i think it was post, could have been pre). In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if people on hormone replacement therapy if they checked the really fine print... And years ago (20 or so) there was a Prime Minister of India (Desai) who drank his own urine - not an uncommon practice in some parts of the world. Yeah, he's dead now It's also good for car batteries if you're in a pinch.
My son was stung a year ago and I suggested that to him at the time. First, I offered. Then suggested he take care of it himself. My wife came along, not interested in experiments or 'home remedies' , and poured on the the vinegar. It was pretty nasty that it wrapped around the instep of his foot and made shoe-wearing a little uncomfortable for a while. Told him that next time he should be pi$$ed on to avoid being pi$$ed off.
Hey, as a fellow floridian I thought you would have mentioned the ole fishermans remedy for jellyfish bites. As you know, there are certain times of the year in which "Man o War" a blue sack like jellyfish floats around and usually washes up on local beaches. The problem with these jellyfish, is that there tentacles can reach very excessive legths, some nearly 10ft or more. They are thread like, and just dangle in the water behind the actual body of the jellyfish. If you get stung, it is INCREDIBLY painful, and burns like your on fire.
Well, the fishermans remedy, and proven savior, is to **** on the stung body part.. My buddy just got stung by one a month or so ago while fishing, but was reluctant to allow me to "cure" him!!! LOL
i did my own peeing-thank you!...couple of red stripes did the trick....not that the thot of a good joke on me wasn't behind their advice-but it worked so well i was offerin my services to many a fair young lass inna bikini-again, the red stripes were encouragin me...........Hey,i was 19 and cliff diving&cave snorkeling&barefoot&burning bud in bamboo bongs! but No braids.
Your question unfortunately and completely begs the unanswered and pressing issue of the quality and quantity of harms inflicted by interferon, which of course needs to be accurately assessed and communicated before any patient can really grant informed consent.
I myself, weighed the two alternatives: 1) continue on with my healthy life-style, consisting of all organic foods, many different supplements, plenty of exercise, which I had practised for the last 14 yrs, and despite all that, recent labs that had suddenly changed: my platelets slipped down to 120(000) and a Special Chemistry Panel showed that my Alpha-2Macroglobulins were muchhigher than normal range, and my Haptoglobin was too low. A person just wouldn't have these labs, if they werent heading towards cirrhosis.
Or: 2) I could go in, and zap the heck out of the lousy virus, that was wracking all this havoc, with some Pegasys 180 mcg/0.5 (weekly Interferon shot) and some Ribasphere , at 1,200 mgs a day~ Well....after 4 weeks on the Interferon and Ribaviran, my virus was Undetected, and my AST/ALT were down to normal!!!! (they had been at 298/498 for half a year, prior to my Treatment, and my biopsy had me at Stage 2, with Grade 3 immflamation) My AST/ALT stayed at 33/26 all thru out Tx!
So, the moral of MY story is: now I will be alive, to see my children grow up, and go to college! Without the Interferon, that you so like to complain about, I am sure I would probably have only had 10~15 yrs left. Now I am looking forward to out-living my Great-grandma, who lived to be 99 yrs old.
I still dont understand why you would try to discourage our members from taking a life-saving remedy. If I had waited (possibly 3~5 yrs, but I hope not) for the Interferon free treatment, I may have had serious crrhosis by then. But, since I Txed, while still in Stage 2, if I achieve SVR, my liver now has a chance to fully recover.
Everybody already knows that Interferon may be damaging, but we all have to weigh the advantages with the disadvantages.
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