anyone drinking Detox Tea ?

hey just acquestion, does anyone drink a Detox tea and do you like it? also has anyone heard of collidal silver? Studies say it is good to help rid the Hep. C ? Or how about drinking Komucha tea? Wow I know all these questions. You know I'm a newbie lol



                           Debbie

[Tater_ToT]

I hope you were kidding!

First:
http://nccam.nih.gov/health/alerts/silver/index.htm#c
"3. Do colloidal silver products work?
Reviews in the scientific literature on colloidal silver products have concluded that2-5:

Silver has no known function in the body.
Silver is not an essential mineral supplement or a cure-all and should not be promoted as such.
Claims that there can be a "deficiency" of silver in the body and that such a deficiency can lead to disease are unfounded.
Claims made about the effectiveness of colloidal silver products for numerous diseases are unsupported scientifically.
Colloidal silver products can have serious side effects (discussed further below).
Laboratory analysis has shown that the amounts of silver in supplements vary greatly, which can pose risks to the consumer.
Top

4. What are the risks of using these products?
Animal studies have shown that silver builds up in the tissues of the body. In humans, buildup of silver from colloidal silver can lead to a side effect called argyria. It causes a bluish-gray discoloration of the skin, other organs, deep tissues, nails, and gums. Argyria cannot be treated or reversed, and it is permanent. While it is not known how argyria occurs, it is thought that silver combines with protein, forming complexes that deposit in the skin and are processed by sunlight (as in traditional photography).6,7 Other side effects from using colloidal silver products may include neurologic problems (such as seizures), kidney damage, stomach distress, headaches, fatigue, and skin irritation. Colloidal silver may interfere with the body's absorption of the following drugs: penacillamine, quinolones, tetracyclines, and thyroxine.5"


NEXT:

( http://www.cancer.org/docroot/ETO/content/ETO_5_3X_Kombucha_Tea.asp?sitearea=ETO )

"Deaths have been reported from acidosis linked with the tea. Drinking excessive amounts of the tea is not recommended. Several experts warn that since home-brewing facilities vary significantly, the tea could become contaminated with harmful germs which could be especially dangerous to people with HIV, cancer, or other immune problems. Allergic reactions, possibly to molds in the tea, have been reported, as have jaundice (yellowing of the skin and eyes, usually due to liver damage) and anthrax of the skin.

Because the acid in the tea can cause it to absorb harmful elements from its container, it should not be brewed in ceramic, lead crystal, or painted containers. Lead poisoning has been reported in at least 2 people who brewed Kombucha tea in a ceramic pot.

Since the potential health risks of Kombucha tea are unknown, anyone with immune deficiency or other medical condition should consult a physician before drinking the tea. Women who are pregnant or breast-feeding should not use this tea. "

And:

( http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/liver/DG00038 )
"Beware of certain supplements. Herbal supplements that can be toxic to the liver include kava, comfrey, chaparral, kombucha tea, pennyroyal and skullcap. Also avoid high doses of vitamins A, D, E and K. "


(http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/kombucha-tea/AN01658)
"Other adverse effects that have been reported include allergic reactions, jaundice, nausea and vomiting, and one suspected death. Lead poisoning also has been reported when a ceramic pot was used to brew the preparation. It's theorized that the acids in the tea leached lead out of the ceramic glaze, resulting in lead poisoning after several months of consumption.

In short, there's no proof that kombucha tea is effective for any of its myriad health claims. At the same time, several cases of harm or injury have been reported. Unless definitive studies are reported that can quantify more accurately the potential risks and benefits of kombucha tea, it's best to avoid it".

And Finally:

(http://www.cghjournal.org/article/PIIS1542356504004550/abstract)
"Use of herbal supplements for chronic liver disease"

*"Complementary and alternative medicine (CAM) is becoming popular among patients with liver disease. Although there is a growing body of evidence regarding potential mechanisms of action of these and other herbs, caution must be used to interpret the results of the few clinical trials available. Our goal was to discuss the biologic rationale for the use of specific herbs (silymarin, glycyrrhizin, sho-saiko-to, Phyllanthus amarus, Picrorrhiza kurroa, Compound 861, CH-100, and LIV.52) in the treatment of chronic liver diseases, as well as the evidence for their efficacy and adverse effects according to clinical trials.

Methods: Because of the relative paucity of clinical studies using herbs, every trial published in English was reviewed.

Results: Although many trials suggest that these herbs can decrease serum transaminase levels, the effects on hepatic histopathology and long-term survival are either poorly studied or conflicting. LIV.52 has been withdrawn from the market because of deleterious effects in patients with liver disease. Conclusions: Based on current evidence, we cannot recommend the use of herbal supplements for the routine treatment of any chronic liver disease and further well-designed clinical trials are necessary".

[orphanedhawk]

    Do pay close attention to Taters reply.
   The only tea I drank is called Dragon's Breath and is available at: www.alchemistlab.com
   The tea was extremely helpful in easing the skin itchies. Its made from herbs such as milk thistle and red clover.

  

[HappyDeb]

Thank you so much for that information. I am believing that combo meds and healthy living is the way to fight the dragon.Like I posted, I am a newbie full of questions in my head that need to be addressed and I thank each and everyone with all this information for the beginning of my treatment till the end. (45 weeks to go). I looked around at alot of websites and found this one to be the right ,positive one for me. Thank god I picked this one, I was right ,this is the best thing that I could have done for my sanity. Besides going on tx. to get better. Thanks again, and I'll try not to be a pain.

                                                       Love ya all,
                                                       Debbie

[Tater_ToT]

LOL... You are NOT A Pain... don't ever think that...

We're all new at one time or another & have tons of questions.... personally when I found out... I thought I had been given a death sentence & was mortified.... so I'm glad you found this place too... I stumbled across it the very day I first got diagnosed & it has turned out to be the most informative place I have ever yet found on the net!

Congratulations on getting started with the Traditional TX, & good luck with the smoking... I tried to quite a few times... I always reverted back!

We have a member that drops by occasionally named tallblonde..She is just a wealth of informative about this kind of stuff...  I think she added some Traditional Chinese Medicine to her protocol... & I know she suggested some kind of White Tea, & a Red Tea... & I think she used "Sam e"... Nu-Liver, & Fish oil caps... there was some other things that where good too.... I just can't remember what all she used....she & a lady named califia really know their stuff on these issues... I wish they were around... so if you ever see them... snag them & ask them what's good... they have both done a LOT of research!

Hang In There... & I Hope your sxs are being kind... & Welcome Aboard!!!
:)
Vicki

[bobbyullc]

NO ,but i sure like a good donut once in a while.

[suzieq2]

Don't waste your money on all these claims. A good pharmacutical grade vitamin without iron and of course eat right and stay as healthy as you can, common sence.Pure encapsulations

[FFly]

Hello all,

I have recently purchased the following products to treat "liver congestion" and possible gallstones: Chinese Bitters (w/Gentian and Bupleurum), GCG/Gold Coin Grass (w/Lysimachia and Bupleurum), Coptis (w/Chinese Scutellaria Root), and Curcuma (w/Bubpleurum).

Tater's awesome info about the silver and tea prompts me to ask; Does anyone know whether any of these tinctures would be harmful to the liver?

Thank you very much,

Karen

[opalmirage]

If you add a detox to your regimen of combo meds, you will surely be overburdening your liver and body as a whole.  You will be even sicker. Only do what will support your liver and immune system not add to their burden.  Do your research thoroughly.
Nina - hep c survivor of 30+/- years

[opalmirage]

I know I'm going in an opposite direction of what has been posted but, my experience is all I can draw on and the experience of others I have known who have hep c.   I have only used traditional doctors for blood tests and have completely treated the hep c with alternative methods.  I can only encourage you to thoroughly do your research; consider your health your responsibility even if you do the traditional methods.  Your body is your body and you will only get one.
There are many conflicting opinions as to what is bad.  Some silver products ARE bad; it depends on the type of silver product.  Some people have lowered their PCRs and enzymes using it.
Kombucha is a fermented food just like yogurt and any food has the potential to develop mold but, what do you do when you see mold on food?  You throw it out.  Have you ever left tea in a cup or glass somewhere and forgot about it a few days?  It grows mold, you can see it and you throw it out.  I drink Kombucha.
Regarding TCM (traditional chinese medicine) herbs: don't just try this and try that; you'll put your body in a crisis. There are TCM practitioners and their philosophy is go slow and watch and listen to the body. I advise you to see one of them if you want to do TCM.  I have taken many herbs over the years.
Educate yourself and be responsible,
Nina - hep c survivor 30+/- years

[mremeet]

opal quote: "Some silver products ARE bad; it depends on the type of silver product.  Some people have lowered their PCRs and enzymes using it."

Really? I've never ever met or personally spoken to anyone (in 10 years) who has made that claim (in regards to colloidal silver). Who do you know (specifically) that have "lowered" their viral load using colloidal silver? What was their VL prior to taking colloidal silver? What was it after taking colloidal silver? How long was the VL tested after that to ensure the VL remained "lowered"? Thanks...

[opalmirage]

I've sent a few emails out and will post again after I hear back.  

[Catll]

I do not think that the “silver” will work, unless you can explain the process and expected reactions.

I will give a statement which might be true for Gen 1 and please stop me when/if I am not correct:

1. People with Gen 1 will accumulate iron and at some point they might/will get iron overload.(one of the points for 1a,b hosts start treatment at earlier stage)

2. People with strong immune system (not strong enough to clear the virus but strong enough to kill liver cells at higher rate) might get bigger damage from HCV but they might respond to treatment better also.

The question is: when you surviving HCV for 30 years would you like to

3. Add another chemical component (silver) which will help you to kill your body cells? (The silver is toxic for you body and along with your iron deposits and HCV it could shorten your life)

[mremeet]

Thanks, looking forward to your followup post concerning the colloidal silver. In the meantime, you state "I have only used traditional doctors for blood tests and have completely treated the hep c with alternative methods."  That's amazing, again I've never known anyone who has been able to "completely treat" their hepC with alternative methods. I have known many people who have had HCV for over 20-30 years and yet were asymptomatic. They had minimal (or no) fibrosis and were generally fit. Nearly all of them did not take herbs or supplements (although some had tried a few at one time or another). How do you define "completely treating" your hep C? To most people this implies you've been cured, which of course I'm sure you're not suggesting you've accomplished via alternative methods. Right??

[opalmirage]

Pardon my grammar, mremeet,
It would have been  better to have said I have treated the hep c with completely alternative methods or only alternative methods.  I'm not sure that "completely treated the hep c with alternative methods" means (mremeet quote) " to most people this implies you've been cured".  I don't think most people would even think about it the same as you do.
My original posts were to encourage people to thoroughly do their research and to be responsible for their health.  
Are you a moderator of this forum? Are you against alternative treatments? Most of all, do you believe I have crossed over unspoken rules by sharing my experiences and those of others I have been in contact with over the last few decades?
I'm interested in how you have treated the hep c in your body.

[meki]

Opal - here's what is going on in mremeet's mind.


We have a group of VERY - VERY sick people here. Diagnosed HCV. Some of them are violently ill.

Most of them are on medically supervised treatment - they are under a doctor's care.

Now - while alternative medicines have been shown to be helpful in some situations, there are many situations, that they have caused harm.

HOWEVER - NOT A SINGLE ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE HAS BEEN FOUND TO CURE HCV.

Some of them may make the symptoms better --- and some of them may have liver toxicity.

Alternative medicines are not FDA approved - have not gone through strenuous testing - nor have they got the medical community behind them.

There are some people here who CANNOT clear the HCV... that cannot get past the virus --- the virus is continuing to replicate inside of them. They are DYING... And alternative medicines may be the straw that they grasp at to help them live... And those medicines could literally KILL THEM..

You get me an FDA approved, Clinically tested Alternative treatment - and I'll try it...

But until then, what alternative medicines are to people with liver diseases --- are only smoke and mirrors sales techniques --- where the sellers don't understand that their 'alternative medicines' could quite literally kill the people who ingest them.

That being said --- there are some great alternative medicines -- and the whole principle behind alternative medicines are great. The lifestyle is fantastic --- because most folks who live on alternative medicines are the types of folks who eat healthy - exercise and take care of their bodies.


But --- for us... for people who have or have had a disease of this type ---- it's DANGEROUS to give people false hope and information that not only won't cure them --- but may actually cause them to spiral into End Stage Liver Disease or Liver Cancer, etc.

No - he's not a moderator --- and like most of us - he isn't against Alternative Treatments... But we care about the people on this board... Both old posters and new posters alike.

You haven't crossed over any unspoken rules --- you just are holding the "golden carrot" out --- without understanding what that golden carrot represents... "hope" "dreams" and quite possibly death.

Everyone should be responsible for their health...

And yeah --- they should be able to research their information.

But until there IS the information that is a controlled study - a complete FDA breakdown - then what you're offering or what alternative medicines offer are nothing more than the "golden carrot" that we should never touch...

And Nina --- what you are treating with Alternative Medicines is not the HCV --- what you are treating are the side effects... the symptoms, if you will --- because you have chosen that route for you...

Most of us --- want the virus inside our bodies DEAD... We do not wish to coexist with them...

Interferon/Ribavirin are the ONLY methods that are currently producing results guaranteed - Millions of people worldwide can attest to that.

Science - and Pharmacies - while the main goal is usually to produce money --- they do work to try and cure the world while they are making money.

So - I put my faith in science... I may not always like the results - I may not like the methods or their greediness - but my faith is there with them.

Not so with Alternative Medicines.

Because I went to a TM --- once... And he told me - for my Asthma when I was having one of the worst episodes of Asthma (allergy related) that I had ever had ---- that I needed to go see a medical doctor.

And that told me all I ever needed to know ---- TM or AM --- is just another money grabber ---- another pill pusher ---- another herbalist that hasn't become scientifically educated.

There is a reason why doctors and scientists spend YEARS and DECADES in School and Education and Research.

So please --- don't post that Alternative Medicines are a CURE for HCV...

They may help the symptoms...

But they haven't CURED Hepatitis C in ANY way.

And to say differently ---- Please post the results --- and let's take that information to one of the major drug companies to run a trial.. And let's get it published and set up... so that the world can be cured.

Meki

[mremeet]

Your grammar is not being critiqued, but the content of what you're saying *is*. If you're saying your hepC has not been completely treated in the sense that it has been put into remission or has been eradicated - then ok, that sounds reasonable. It's just your original statement gave the impression that you may have cured yourself (or put your virus into remission) using alternative methods. Obviously that isn't true (it isn't, is it??), so I thought it important to clarify that fact for anyone who might be reading this and doesn't know much about hepatitis C or its treatments. So if you'd like to be more specific about what you mean by "completely treated", that would be helpful and perhaps informative depending on what you have to share.

"My original posts were to encourage people to thoroughly do their research and to be responsible for their health"

Amen to that. People should thoroughly investigate colloidal silver, UV blood irradiation, ozone treatment, cow thymus, vibrational crystals and powered goat dingleberries for that matter. That way everyone would know none of those things will cure them of hepc. Only interferon, ribavirin and now protease inhibitors are known to cure people of hepatitis C. Being an informed patient who has done her research, I'm sure you agree with that - right?

"Are you a moderator of this forum? "

Nope. Whatever gave you that impression? Is asking you for specific/verifiable details about your rather bold attestments in favor of naturalistic treatments off limits? If so, why?

"Are you against alternative treatments?"

Nope, I'm not against alternative treatments. It's just I've never seen one that really works or significantly helps those with hep C (never seen one yet, anyway). In fact I searched for about ten years looking for one (in hopes of avoiding the dreaded IFN and riba). I read all kinds of books (including Buhner's seminal work) and tried many different substances over the years. I can't remember all of them now, but I've taken milk thistle (and continue to today), dandelion root, licorice, burdock root, reishi mushrooms, spirulina (i.e. pond scum), ascorbic acid, NAC, Vit E, Vit C, St John's wort, Zinc, selenium, turmeric, alpha lipoic acid, etc etc. That's all I can remember right now, but you get the idea. Anyway, none of them cured me of hepc and I really don't believe any of them were helping me in any significant manner. Although I do believe milk thistle probably helps to minimize damage done by drinking moderate amounts of alcohol...probably. The very best naturalistic treatment for hep C is abstaining from alcohol (although a little bit is ok once in a while), smoking and drugs etc, eating a healthy diet filled with fresh fruits and vegetables, whole grains, lean meats and lots of fresh water, plus plenty of vigorous aerobic exercise combined with resistance training. Not as easy as taking pills and supplements, but it'll help you more than any of the other stuff.

"Most of all, do you believe I have crossed over unspoken rules by sharing my experiences and those of others I have been in contact with over the last few decades?"

No I don't believe you have crossed over any unspoken rules by sharing your experiences. But you see, you haven't really shared any experiences have you? All you've done is give vague and non-specific advice about the "benefits" of alternative treatments over conventional treatment. You don't explain what it is you're doing and why it's so great nor do you explain how you've come to the firm and resolute conclusion it's so great. But, you do specifically state that you know people who have lowered their viral loads using colloidal silver - but again provide no specifics. Why is it that every time an advocate for naturalistic/alternative remedies (and/or a staunch critic of IFN/riba) steps forward to advocate what they're doing, and then their questioned in any way shape or form about the specifics of what they're claiming, or alluding to, or hinting to - and they fall to pieces, refuse to answer pointed questions and become overly defensive? If you've got a lot of experience with alternative treatments and know something everyone else doesn't, then lets hear ALL about it. No need to be defensive, but be prepared to be specific and back up what you say or imply. That's not unfair, is it?

"I'm interested in how you have treated the hep c in your body."

As previously stated, I "treated" for years with alternative methods and then came to the realization that clean living and lots of exercise was the best thing going (surprise surprise). Then last August I enrolled in a Vertex drug trial which doses IFN+riba+VX950 and then IFN+riba after that ( thought it offered better odds of success than conventional SOC alone). I just got my 6 weeks post tx which was UND. Feeling better now and hoping to be cured. Oh, and those drugs brought my viral load to UND within 2 weeks (and have remained that way ever since). Many many others have too. You can see and talk to them on this forum and many other forums. That's something that can't be said about alternative treatments.

[sfwandwow]

milk thistle is the best..PLUS GOD!!!!

[jmjm530]

Opal: My original posts were to encourage people to thoroughly do their research and to be responsible for their health.
--------------------------------------------
That's how I read it and it was clear to me at least by what you meant when you said "completely treated".  You were simply stated the facts of your treatment approach.

And in all due respect to Meki (she's a great help here) I also do not think you were promising an alternative "cure".

What I do have reservations with is last part of your statment re "lowered...PCRs and enzymes" as follows:

"Some silver products ARE bad; it depends on the type of silver product.  Some people have lowered their PCRs and enzymes using it."

I'll admit I've done little reseach here, but what research I have done on Colloidal Silver, for example, shows it to be nothing but harmful to the body. And while it's one thing to report anecdotal accounts, the statement above could be construed as a statement of fact, which again, seems unsupported by the evidence.

-- Jim

[opalmirage]

Catll,
I do not believe true electrically isolated silver (eis) can damage my body and I do not have the capabilities or energy to defend what much smarter  people than I have spent years studying and writing about.   Explore this site, if you'd like, especially the safety link at the top
I appreciate your concern,
Thank you,
Nina

[opalmirage]

Be patient, please, as I answer posts.
Thanks,
Nina

[susan400]

It's not a cure, nor a treatment for HEP C, but drinking regular grocery store bought tea, i.e. black tea like Lipton's, or green tea like Bigelow's, I think would be safe.  The antioxidant properties of tea is good science, lot's of studies to back that up.  I wouldn't really do it in excess on treatment though because it might be too much of a diuretic type of effect.  I also would still only drink in as part of your normal fluid intake during the day, but not as an excessive type of thing.  But, for the same reason, I wouldn't be going off drinking massive quantities of 'juicing' on the fresh fruit and/or vegative juice thing.  Anything that you go overboard with like that, can throw your body out of whack.  Too many of a certain type of vitamin is not a good idea either.  Just IMHO.

Susan

[opalmirage]

am sorry this reply has been postponed.  I have kids in from DC; my son in law is a 3rd yr med student at Bethesda.  We have some very good conversations.

Mrement, I truly hope you are UND for the rest of your life, that gives much hope.  I was googling for kombucha and hep c when I came across this site.  When I read the original question I responded on impulse without really looking at the type of forum it was.  I believe I was wrong in jumping in the way I did and I apologize.

I have been hoping to receive some replies from a few people that I had been in contact with in the past.  Two I know who had lowered their enzymes and one whose load was found undetected while using eis (silver). The problem is when my computer crashed last fall I lost my archives and had to post to the lists that I am on to see if they would respond.  They have not.  Which is not surprising since people get on lists to learn, get encouragement, experience and relate back to the group. When people are doing well they tend to not stay up with a list because they are doing well unless, of course, they are very interested in the subject.  

The list's archives were not held at the list site.  There was a problem about a year ago with the server that was holding the archives; consequently, there are no archives available now. Hence, my posting with no response.

Even if I had received responses, I would have only used them to verify to myself that I had remembered correctly but, would not have divulged personal info on any list.  I will not withdraw my statement that some people have lowered their enzymes and viral load using silver, specifically electrically isolated silver.  I do not have a live person to back up my statement but, I will let it stand.  You must also realize that due to the potential shutting down of web sites some have decided to protect their information vs trying to make money. Therefore, on the really good info sites you will not find testimonials pertaining to conditions such as HIV, hep, cancer etc.  The good ones are also .org not .com   It is safer.  People have gone to prison, had their facilities ransacked, research destroyed all in the name of protecting the innocent.  You may possibly agree, I don't.

I have never liked to discuss important subjects on the phone due to not being able to see the other person's face.  I dislike even more discussing things vis email since you do not hear a person's voice as well as not seeing their face.  Emails were originally meant for short messages not long discussions and too little may be said or too much read between the lines.
I am very happy for you that the virus is undetected in your body.  Perhaps this combo that you used is what everyone has been waiting for.  I have talked to a few people that were UND from the Interferon/ riba and are still UND.  I have talked to more people though that either were too sick to continue and stopped or were UND and the virus came back.  These are many of the people that turn to alt tx.
I personally do not use silver for hep c. I have been on two silver lists for about five years.  I am intrigued by it and have used it for other conditions.  I have always used other things to fight the hep c and have never splurged to buy a machine to make it at home.  To buy the silver to treat the virus would be too expensive to me.

I have been sick since I was about 20 yo.  Never really recouped from the initial sickness.  Mid - twenties I began looking for ways to rebuild my husband's and my body from our drug abuse days and that led us to a healthy lifestyle. I worked in a county hospital as an aide for two years doing things that RNs only do now as their was only one RN per wing.  I learned a lot.  I then worked in the dental field for 10 years as an asst.  I learned a lot.  All the time working both places with no gloves as no one used gloves back in the 70's except when the situation was too messy.  When my children grew older I worked in a chiropractors office until 2 years ago and I learned much in that environment as well as continuing my own research via library and internet.

I have four children (none positive).  They were born at home with a midwife.  They have grown up learning how to take care of their bodies.  They were all homeschooled, youngest 16 (Aspergers syndrome and we are constantly looking for  new tx for him that will not be a drug.)  One child working on Masters works for Nat'l Autism Foundation in DC.  One child out of college working, one still in college and youngest at home still.

I take my health seriously.  I belong to a national health food buying coop as well as belong to a local community supported organic agriculture coop.  For five months of the year our produce is picked in the morning and we get it in the afternoon.  Our meat, chicken, eggs are raised organic or at least free range and I avoid sugar like I do alcohol.

[opalmirage]

I have not had to take an antibiotic for 16 years and do not use OTC preparations.  I find alternatives.  I am not proud of that and do not boast of it.  I only share it to emphasize how careful I am with what I put in my body.

Maybe you would think I have been asymptomatic for the duration or have a type that is more easily endured.  I have been so sick at times that I could not hardly get out of bed and walk across the room.  At other times I have felt pretty good.  In my younger years I would have about one bad 3-4 mo period of being really sick.  Now, I truly pace myself so I don't get that bad I just settle for a slow pace with lots of rest.  I have a DO who also practices preventive medicine and he would suggest alt tx to me over the years.  He was the one also who said I should be tested for the hep c since they had the distinction and not just non-specific.  By him I have received vit c  through an IV (vit c is anti-viral) on a weekly basis off and on through the years. He also suggested the lipoic acid which I have taken.  

As I have gotten older I have learned to listen to my body and I have learned to rotate  the anti-virals (AHCC (used in Japan),  olive leaf extract, high dose Vit C, oregano oil, chinese herbs) I have learned that quality is extremely important and I have learned to find out who funds who in all information gathered.  I take anti virals so that I don't just treat symptoms.

I use thymus to address immune support as well as chlorophyll and Kombucha tea to  help raise the platelets and support the spleen. I work to increase my own interferon. I use milk thistle for liver support.  I have hard copies of studies done using the AHCC, thymus, and milk thistle against the hep c virus symptoms and load.

I take a lot of supplements off and on but have a few that are mainstay.  I exercise when I'm on the up swing, do self massage every morning, have a solid faith in my creator, have a great support system and try to be a support to others through various avenues.

Do you ask why I do all this when I could take drugs to once and for all eliminate this dragon?  I wrote earlier that I had talked to people that had not had such good success with the drugs.  I am glad that you all have, truly.  One of my dearest friends has had two biopsies on her liver. First fine, second punctured her lung.  I don't want to risk that. She has lowered her enzymes and viral load with alt tx ( I did not say silver) and has chosen to not do the drugs. Although, she has spoken of the day when a true cure is found.  If I pretty pleased her she might consent to post here but,  probably wouldn't want to take the time to do so as she doesn't do lists or forums like me.

It is a personal choice.  I know myself and know I could not handle being sick for months.  I also have never had medical insurance and pay for my blood work myself.  Many heppers do not have health insurance and turn to alt tx for that reason.  Had I a policy for years previously perhaps my inclination to standard treatment would be different, not having it my mindset for three decades has been to look elsewhere.  Thankfully I have never needed a hospital visit.

Again, I apologize for impulsiveness,  I respect your choices and please forgive the length of my post.  I hope I never mislead anyone so I am always careful to do my research and encourage people to do their research and take responsibility for their own health whatever their choice.

Peace and May you walk in good health,
Nina

[Catll]

...nothing to do with electricity here.
I am very surprised that 3rd year medical school does not explain simple staff…

I do not have to trust me or anybody on this forum you just have to do precise research.

colloidal silver link:

http://nccam.nih.gov/health/alerts/silver/

"
What are the risks of using these products?
Animal studies have shown that silver builds up in the tissues of the body. In humans, buildup of silver from colloidal silver can lead to a side effect called argyria. It causes a bluish-gray discoloration of the skin, other organs, deep tissues, nails, and gums. Argyria cannot be treated or reversed, and it is permanent. While it is not known how argyria occurs, it is thought that silver combines with protein, forming complexes that deposit in the skin and are processed by sunlight (as in traditional photography).6,7 Other side effects from using colloidal silver products may include neurologic problems (such as seizures), kidney damage, stomach distress, headaches, fatigue, and skin irritation. Colloidal silver may interfere with the body's absorption of the following drugs: penacillamine, quinolones, tetracyclines, and thyroxine.5
"

[Catll]

… I do not know how to spell. English as second language :)
Here is another one ...could be related to your Kombucha mould (History of antibiotics):
http://www.wellcome.ac.uk/doc_WTX026108.html
“
The discovery of an antibacterial factor in the exudates of the Penicillium mould by Alexander Fleming at St Mary's Hospital in 1928 was therefore not totally unexpected. Not was it medically revolutionary. At first, it seemed impossible to extract the active compound intact from the yellow liquid produced by the mould, but two new developments in the late 1930s engendered more enthusiasm for the antibiotic approach to medicine. The sulfonamide drugs offered cures for a wide range of bacterial infections and the Rockefeller Institute scientist Rene Dubos managed to extract a powerful antibiotic that he called tyrothricine from a soil mould, and later refined this to gramicidine and tyrocidine (although these could not be used internally).
“

[opalmirage]

I'm sorry that I didn't include the link.   www.silvermedicine.org   Explore the safety link at the top.  The site addresses argyria.

[meki]

Opal - while I don't agree in Alt meds for many reasons - I know there is no current Alt med cure for HCV...

You might be able to manage some symptoms --- and mask the problem --- but there is no alt med cure -  IT IS AS SIMPLE as that.

However - I have to admire your chutzpah in returning here and apologizing for possibly offering up advice - that while you believe in it's benefits for yourself --- you apologize for possibly offering false hope to new people.

Now keep in mind --- research about your own body is most important and I agree with you on that.

And I think alt meds in combination might help some folks.

But I think - feel and believe that most of the alt meds that are advertised are truly not good for those who are already surviving on a damaged organ.

I wish you the best and send you smiles for your attempt at explaining --- I have no doubt that you are content to be a HEPC survivor...
However --- most of us do not wish to coexist with this devastating disease...

We wish to stop it --- kill it --- defeat it --- before it kills us.

Do not believe you are holding the disease at bay.

It continues to eat you --- while you mask the symptoms.

Until - it is too late...

That is your personal choice --- and each person must choose for themselves.

I respect your decision. And give you commendation for your efforts in trying to explain yourself.

I do hope that you never go beyond the stage that you are at ---- in HCV progression --- and that you are content in your life...

Sincerely

Meki

[mremeet]

First I'd like to say you owe me no apologies or lengthy explanations concerning your personal healthcare strategy. I apologize if I came on too strong, you seem like a very nice person who is just doing her best to keep her head above water (like the rest of us). You have reasonable and sensible reservations about the current treatment drugs (as myself and many many others do too). My intent was not to question you in that respect, only to inquire about what you had said or suggested about alternative treatments. Without going into too much detail I'll just explain a few points of what I mean:

re: Differences between advocates of alternative remedies - When you're online chatting on forums like this one, you run into all sorts. People who are gung ho and strongly in favor of conventional treatment (and often dismiss alternative treatments as "hippy hooey"), some who are scared and holding off for better drugs, some who believe conventional treatment is highly toxic and will wreck your mind and body (drug companies and the western med community are often perceived as evil, profit driven misfits as commonly portrayed in television mini-series and movies), and then there are just a few who have axes to grind. By axes to grind I mean unscrupulous parasites who wish to sell us one thing or another to supposedly "treat" or even "cure" our hepatitis C using some sort of alternative treatment, supplement or herb (whilst often simultaneously portraying a dire gloom and doom scenario for anyone actually foolish enough to enroll in conventional IFN/riba treatment). These unscrupulous parasites don't really care about HCV patients and only wish to tap into their fear and ignorance about their disease (at a time when they are most vulnerable) simply in order to make a quick buck at their expense. Unfortunately there's a very long human history for this sort of thing (and not just for HCV), but there you have it. I remember several years ago there was this guy online trying to sell me an ozone generator for the purposes of curing my HCV. He was sending me copies of "scientific research" that had been done on ozone and how it could be used to eradicate the HCV virus. The study he sent me was completely bogus on many different levels, and I finally uncovered the story behind his ozone generator - it was a cheap $30 ionic air freshener that had been crudely modified to (apparently) produce a tiny amount of ozone. The HCV+ person was supposed to breath in the ozone given off by this cheap air freshener until he/she was cured. I later would have run ins with other liars and scam artists attempting to do the same with other so called remedies, which included colloidal silver, UV blood irradiation, ozone blood disinfection and cow thymus. The more I learned about HCV and the more I investigated many of these alternative therapies, it was just amazing how many of these quacky and completely unsubstantiated theories there were (and *always* accompanied with hucksters to hawk them).

Another issue to contend with online, is that most hucksters that prowl forums (including this one) have a tougher time pimping their wares than they used to back in the day (like 10 years ago when I first started researching this topic). If they want to be successful, they have to be coy and subtle about it, otherwise they'll get banned or found out in short order. Usually what they do, is to sign on anonymously posing as just another poor 'ole HCV patient and then attempt to intermingle with the legitimate population. It's not always easy to single them out either, but they're almost always there in one shape or another. For instance, here's a recent example of someone who's either a huckster looking to profit directly, or perhaps is some person who has bought into a huckster's spin and wishes to "help" another person with the *exclusive* information they've learned.

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/237520  ;(take a look at "lovscience_60")

You can see the process of identifying a vulnerable person who doesn't know much about HCV and its treatment, and then the attempt to sequester the uninformed person for a private screening via email. That way the information is disseminated away from prying eyes on the forum so that what they have to say will not be critiqued/examined for legitimacy (nor will it be banned) by those with more experience and knowledge on the matter.  Anyway, after seeing this stuff for years and years online, I've come to fairly vigorously question anyone who might appear to be trying to do this (although I didn't do it in the referenced link). But I can see in your case that you're just a very nice person who has decided to take the alternative path instead of conventional treatment, and of course you're certainly entitled to do that (as I did for a long time).

cont...

[mremeet]

re: Liver Enzymes and PCR/Viral Levels apparent response to alternative treatments - One common fallacy I've seen mentioned or claimed by otherwise well meaning people who advocate alternative treatments is the notion of a certain treatment lowering VL's and/or lowering liver enzyme levels, and this seeming to "prove" that the substance/treatment works. Unfortunately this is almost always a very poor premise for claiming that alternative treatment x, y or z actually works. The reason it is a poor premise is because these claims are anecdotal. By anecdotal I mean it's only based on what "some guy told me" or maybe even "I saw it in my own blood work". The claimed cases are usually (1) unsubstantiated (i.e. provided by unverified/unbonafide persons who may not even be who they say they are), (2) lack any corroborative data (verifiable lab results etc) and (3) are usually very small in number (often constituting the claims of only 1 or 2 people etc). Furthermore, the reality of liver enzymes and viral loads in those with hep C is much more complicated than that. Speaking for myself, my viral load has gone from ~100,000 IU/ml 10 years ago to 1.6 million IU/mil a year ago. And that's after taking all kinds of alternative treatments. It has ebbed and flowed up and down and all around over the years all by itself. This is very common for hep C patients, the viral population naturally undulates in our bodies all the time, both up and down. So if you had your VL measured as, say 5 million IU/ml one day and then the next day you started taking colloidal silver, and then 6 months later it was measured as 3 million IU/ml, that most certainly does NOT mean that colloidal  silver lowered your VL by 2 million IU/ml. It could have very easily been a perfectly normal variation in your viral population. There are also significant variations in test results which could easily explain for that variance as well (i.e. the VL could be exactly the same as it was before, it's just the test result varied due to its limits of accuracy/sensitivity). Also, if you persisted in having your VL tested over and over again over a long period of time (spanning years) while still taking colloidal silver, you'd very likely see your VL go up from time to time above the baseline value of 5 million IU/ml. Lastly, as you might know, there is no correlation between viral load and liver damage. You can have a very low viral load and have full blown cirrhosis. Conversely, you can have a very high VL and yet have a nearly pink-perfect F0 liver (i.e. no significant fibrosis). So the notion that lower viral load (even if something like colloidal silver really did lower VL's) would necessarily equate to reduced liver damage may itself even be a largely bogus  precept. The same basic thing can be said about liver enzymes levels. An HCV infected patient with persistently normal enzyme levels can have cirrhosis, and someone with relatively high AST/ALT can have essentially no fibrosis.  There is no clear 1:1 connection between enzyme levels and liver damage in HCV infected patients. So once again even if something like colloidal silver really did manage to slightly lower enzyme levels that would not necessarily mean it's somehow providing a therapeutic effect on the liver. Unfortunately, it's much more complicated than that.

You mention that you do not have insurance and pay for your own labwork. I hope you know that you can almost certainly get traditional healthcare if you really want it. And you can probably get it either free or nearly free. I have a millionaire friend who's self employed and has no health inurance. He can easily afford to pay out of pocket, but he enrolled in an NIH program and gets all his healthcare for free. There are TONS of free government/commercial organizations and patient assistance programs out there that you can readily access should you desire to. If you've made an informed decision to abstain from current treatment meds (being as imperfect as they are), fair enough. But don't let a lack of insurance keep you away from treating if you choose to do so. I promise, if you want to treat, there IS a way to "git r dun" with little or no money out of your pocket. As a further example, I'm fully insured and yet all of the drugs and healthcare associated with the drug trial I'm in were paid for by the study. If you have the will, there's a way.

Lastly, I'd like to wish you luck in whatever you do. We're all quite literally blood brothers and sisters here. I hope whatever path you take in the future leads you to the same place we're all trying to get to.

[Catll]

Be careful with Silver and Antibiotic like substances.(The best dosage of silver = zero)

…Please, consider HCV treatment as an option.

Whish you luck.

[whoaisme]

Giddyup likes Dandelion tea, or licorce root tea. they are supposed to be ok for the liver. and I buy them in the regular grocery store. personally I like the Roobius tea which is supposed to be good for you too

[Magnum]

I understand pure pomegranate juice is supposed to have the highest amount of anti-oxidants. I drink it every day. A bit tart, but fine. Look into it. Costco sells the Lander's brand... You can use the Bullet blender and make a smoothie by using ½ orange juice, ½ pomegranate juice, frozen chunks of pineapple, mango and papaya (therefore eliminating ice cubes), which Costco also sells in a large bag called Tropical Blend. Mmmmmm...

Here's another recipe my doctor gave me. Again, using the Bullet blender, put 10 tablespoons of low-fat yogurt (I use strawberry), 2 tablespoons of natural peanut butter, three ice cubes, 1/4 cup milk and a banana. Make this wonderful, healthy smoothie which also cuts your appetite.. Enjoy

Magnum