I need help, and ideas.

First off, I am having such a hard time with a transition that is about to happen on September 2nd. I already feel like I don't get enough time with my baby boy but the time has come for him to go to daycare. He has NEVER, in his 13 months been cared for by anyone but family or close friends that he knows. Everyone knows his needs and his personality. He's high maintenance. He has NEVER, I repeat NEVER in 13 months put himself to sleep in his crib. We give him a warm bottle of milk and hold/rock him to sleep. This often takes a half an hour or even more. This is for naps and bedtime. However, when speaking with the daycare provider that he will start with on September 2nd, she said that naptime is a routine there, which I understand but she said he will not be rocked to sleep. He will be put in a crib and left there for his nap.

I have a HUGE problem with this, but I understand her point. She has a daycare to run and naptime is part of the routine. She doesn't have the time to sit and rock the babies to bed, she has things she gets done and relies on that time to do it. So, I'm freaking out, thinking we have to get him to fall asleep on his own in his crib before then. I cannot stand the thought of him in a strange place, crying himself to sleep!! It makes me sick! I am not a fan of the CIO method, so this kills me! However, last night I decided to give it a try. I hated it!! I read him a story, rubbed his back for a bit and then put him calmly into his crib. Of course, he was in disbelief and fussed immediately. I let him cry for about 6-7 minutes, the whole time sitting outside his door almost crying myself. Then, I went in and rubbed his back, told him it was alright and laid him back down then walked off. He cried again, screaming this time. I let it go about another 6-7 minutes and then went in to soothe him. I gave him a hug and he laid his head on my shoulder and held tight. I could NOT leave him!! I picked him up and sat in his rocking chair and rocked him. He cuddled in, calmed down and fell asleep within a minute or two.

I am heartbroken and not knowing how to handle this. I am feeling like the worst mother in the world to even be considering CIO method because I do NOT believe in it! So, I guess my question is first, has anyone been in my shoes? Has anyone successfully used the CIO method for a child who does not soothe themselves to sleep? Any other ideas?

The only other thing I am thinking is that maybe we need to find a provider who WILL rock him to sleep?? I think that is unrealistic though...being we have 12 days! This daycare provider lives across the street from us, we know and trust her and we feel in every way that it is perfect except for the naptime issue. She is going to end up very frustrated with his crying and wailing at naptime. I'm so worried!!!

[mami1323]

Oh hon, I know exactly how you feel.  It's heartbreaking hearing them cry and then when we can't take it anymore we feel worse when they grasp us for dear life.  It's such a normal feeling.  Honestly, if she is a caring woman she won't just let him cry hysterically in his crib.  Remember, she has other kids that she has to tend to as well and therefore won't let another baby cry and disturb the other children.  I can't understand how she can't just soothe him a little bit prior to putting him in there.  Is this a conversation you can have with her again?  Relay your fears to her?  I think it's very important to establish some type of schedule and routine with the daycare provider that is acceptable to you and your child's needs.  I mean you are paying for this service.  I really wish I had better advice.  I haven't done this yet with my son so I'm not sure how I would react.  I hope you get some good advice.

[deanne11]

I don't do the CIO method, but my kids go to bed alone.  

Well, my DD now is read to at night...

but my little one.  He takes his warm bottle of milk and rolls over to go to sleep.  Doesn't look at me, doesn't want his back rub.  Just left alone to sleep.

Jake has been in daycare since he was 13 weeks old.  Never have they told me that he cries when put in the crib.  They do say, he doesn't always sleep!  But he doesn't cry.  They'll put him in the crib with a quiet toy and eventually he'll lay down to sleep.

Now when he turns 1 (and same with my DD) they didn't have cribs.  They were 'mats' and the teachers and aides do help them get to sleep.  Rub their head or just sit next to them.  And they are allowed a cuddle toy.

Question - is this a private care lady or a center?

[lhughes]

If it'll ease your mind a bit... my second dd didn't go to a "day care" until she was 18 months.  She's a horrible sleeper, never put herself to sleep, we rock her, walk, her, read...you name it...you can't let her cry it out or she'll vomit, everywhere.  So, I was also worried about the same thing.  

They put her in a crib and they said that she laid down and went right to sleep along with the other children.  Didn't have to do a thing, just a bink and she was out.  Now she leads the "group" in when to nap.  She ONLY did that at MDO for the longest, but now that's a habit that has come home.

So, strange things can happen.  Give ds a chance, never know .... daycare just might be magic for him.

[jenstam]

It's in home daycare. A private home across the street from where we live.

We went wrong from the start, by doing this for him. Now, he has no skill at all to be able to put himself to sleep. He relies on us and it is often a long, drawn out process to get him to sleep. Then, when he wakes up he cries because the last he knew, he was being held by one of us. It's a vicious cycle and something I know we need to put a stop to, but we just don't know how to, other than the CIO method. We're stuck between a rock and a hard place and I am desperate.

We both as parents have the guilt of working full time and being busy also, so this routine to hold, cuddle, soothe, rock is comforting for us, too. So, if it weren't for him having to be put in daycare, we would continue on with our routine. In the longrun though, I know this is not good for him or for us. And I know that I can't expect a daycare to sit and cuddle, rub his back, hold him for the time it takes him to fall asleep. It's unrealistic I think.

I hate the CIO method and all, yes ALL of my friends and family have told me I just need to do it. They tell me it takes about 3 days and yes, it will break my heart but that for our sanity and his well being, we need to allow him to learn how to soothe himself to sleep. Honestly, this is the last thing I want to do but I don't feel like I have any other options ):

[jenstam]

THANK YOU for sharing your experience! I have wondered about this myself...thinking that if he is in a new place and this is the way things are done there, that he will just do it, knowing no other way, THERE. So, you might have a point. I could see her telling us that naptime was a breeze and us dropping our jaws in disbelief. I hope and pray this is the scenario! I am stressed beyond belief and have even considered quitting my full time job with great health benefits at Mayo over this!!

[deanne11]

lhughes is right....the kids learn to conform to what the other kids are doing pretty quickly.

You'd be surprised how they can really get 1 yr olds to line up single file

[tiredbuthappy]

i have the same question as deanne- is this a center or a lady?i would think a lady would be more flexible.

dd goes down beautifully in her crib at night, but naps in a rocker. at daycare, she naps in a rocker as well. these rockers hold children up to like 35 pounds, so there's no worries about her outgrowing it anytime soon.

when i worked in an infant room, we wouldn't just let babies cry themselves to sleep. most of the one year olds were in cribs, but we would either rub their backs. or, a very very effective method was to lay the child down and rock or shake the crib. the cribs were basic daycare cribs on wheels so they moved easily- they had to because that is what they put the infants in for firedrills and wheel them out. anyways, we would never just let a baby cry himself to sleep, especially a child new to the center. and we would make accomodations for babies who were taking a long time to adjust. for example, there were a couple of children who we had to use a stroller with.

how many kids and is she alone? i'm trying to understand why she is so firm about this. dd's provider is alone during the school year. she has dd 13 months, a 2 year old, a 3 yr old, and a 4 year old. obviously they are all on their own schedules, but she manages to do it. i have noticed that dd does sleep less there than at home, but she never seems overtired and just makes up for it with a nap when we get home (very convenient for getting dinner ready).

all that being said, i do want to say that you shouldn't expect the worst. he may surprise you. this is a whole new place, and a great new way to introduce new routines. he may go down perfectly in a crib there. i have seen it many times- parents are often amazed by what their babies do at daycare. at home, you are stuck in a routine that he expects.

[lhughes]

I still drop jaw over some of the things the ladies at MDO say about Lauren.....  kids conform rather quickly.  We're getting ready to start a new session on the 2nd, new teachers, new routine....I'm like you about to panic over whether or not she is ready to move up to Older 2s ....  Not totally panic, yet...  But I might be there by the 1st.  I just have to trust that these ladies will do what is right.

And I will let you know, that hopefully your daycare works the same way....if there ever IS a problem where ds won't stop crying or is having a severely bad day, they will call you.  I've been called twice for Lauren.  So, they DO do some things for comfort when they think something is off, but generally, they stick to routine and the kids know what is expected.

Going back to work is a stressor, for sure...We can commisserate over not getting any sleep because we've "ruined" our children.  Oops.... I'm in same boat as you, although some days are better than others.

[tiredbuthappy]

good point lhughes.
both the center where i worked and the center dd went to for a short time would call the parent as an FYI if the baby was inconsolable. my current in-home provider calls about EVERYTHING. haha. i have her call DH :)

[deanne11]

I guess I don't understand why a private care worker would be so strick about routine and not conforming herself to each child.

I mean if she does this alone....she can't have many kids?
Does she have an assistant worker?

[jenstam]

No, it's a small in home daycare provider. I think she has only 3 or 4 kids besides her own. I see her on walks every day with them, she does fun things with them but she stressed to me that naptime is naptime (because she knows that Brody is rocked to sleep by us) and that she doesn't rock the children to sleep. She stresses that routine is important and so is naptime.

I guess we will give it a try and see how it goes. I am in a panic over this and feeling so much guilt that I am not at home with him but it's just not possible right now. I have great health insurance and we need my income.

Maybe I will feel better once I go on a walk with her and Brody today. I hope so. I will discuss the naptime issue further. Hopefully she will ease my mind a bit. I guess if not, then maybe this is not the right thing for our family.

[have 2 kids]

I know it's hard but I believe at 13 months he should be able to soothe himself to sleep.
We did this with our son.   The 1st night we stood by his crib and rubbed his back.  If he stood up we laid him back down and rubbed his back again.  This went on for a couple hours but we didn't have any crying/screaming.    The 2nd night we put him to bed, rubbed his back for a couple minutes and left the room.   He cried (not hard just fussing) went in after 10 minutes and laid him down, rubbed his back.  Left room.  He fussed for about 5 minutes and was quiet, checked him a few minutes later and he was asleep.   3rd night about the same as 2nd night.  4th night he cried for a few minutes and went to sleep.
Each night got a little easier.

[jenstam]

Thank you for sharing your story. I need to hear these things. I know at 13 months he should be able to comfort himself and that is what I am aiming for. I think it is a blessing in disguise, but it just breaks my heart. He has one up on us because he had such troubles early on, then the recent surgery and on top of that, our guilt of working so much so we get in our cuddle time when we can. I know it's a vicious cycle and it's time to end it but it is not easy.

Who ever said parenting was easy?? It is the hardest, most heartbreaking but rewarding experience I have ever had. I just feel so torn in so many directions at one though. My number one priority is my children. They are only little, sweet, and cuddly for such a short time.

[have 2 kids]

I just talked to a friend that does home daycare.   She said she is very set that naptime is naptime BUT she also said when a new child starts she is a little more lax on that rule and does try to comfort the child.   She doesn't sit and rock them to sleep but doesn't let them scream/cry for more than 10 minutes.   Ask your provider how she will handle the situation if he won't lay down.  

[jenstam]

I will ask her today when we go for our walk, how she will handle the situation if he does cry in the crib. I am not okay with her just letting him sit there getting himself all worked up. He gets SO upset, and I would hope she would comfort him. Thank you for asking your friend about this. Every bit of info helps!

[ma2isiah]

I would try for the next two nights to rock him to sleep with a blanket or stuffed animal (some type of lovey). Then next few nights rock him but for shorter time and lay him in his bed and stay with him until he falls asleep. Rub his back and say night night, but DON'T take him out of his crib. Do the same thing when he wakes up in the night show him you are there for him, but he has to fall asleep in his crib. Then finally just put him in his crib after his bottle, he may need you to stay with him for a few nights. It will be really hard to see him cry, but you are staying with him and comforting him. And this will be good for you as a family and for Brody, teach him now to fall asleep alone, it will just get harder as he gets older and more dependent on assistance to fall asleep. And mabye your daycare lady will be more flexible the first few days with at least holding him while he gets a bottle and rubbing his back or something until he falls asleep. Also hopefully he will find comfort in a blanket or lovey you can send with him.
I do feel for you having to send him to a new place. I am glad you know and trust her and she is across the street that seems ideal for a daycare provider.

[jenstam]

Great ideas! I will try that. He has not taken to anything in particular and does not take a binky or pacifier, but I think this little square soft and fuzzy on one side and silky on the other side little blanky we could get him attached to. And you're right, we can send him with it and it should help. We will try that tonight. Thanks for the suggestion! I just can't do CIO but knew really no other way! My girls never had troubles with their sleep routine.

I am also thinking bath, story, warm milk and rocking for a short time and then crib, in the same order every night will help. I will update everyone and let you know what works.

[jenstam]

One more question. Do/have any of you given a warm bottle of milk in the crib? I have never given bottles in the crib, but I think this might work. Is there a reason not to do it? Don't they say it can cause bottle rot or something?? Is this a big no no?

[GNicole]

I am not a fan of CIO either but around 13 months  I starting putting my daughter to bed before she was asleep. I will still give her a bottle and rock her but she usually doesn't fall asleep anymore like she did when she was younger. It only took a couple of times and now she doesn't cry anymore. I would never let her cry more than 10 minutes but she usually fell asleep before then.  Just keep trying every night and I am sure he will soon be able to go to sleep on his own. Good luck!!

[ma2isiah]

I personally wouldn't do the bottle in the crib as then he will become dependent on that too. I give dd her bottle while we cuddle downstairs and read books. Then I brush her teeth (paranoid about cavities). If you do the bottle in bed then he may expect that in the middle of the night too. I think the routine sounds good and the small soft blankie. Dd calls her blanket "night night" and she lights up when she sees it and smells it---funny girl :)

[jenstam]

Good point. Thanks ;) Tonight it will be the little blanky. We'll give it a try!

[peekawho]

If you ever get the chance, watch some old episodes of Supernanny.  Many episodes deal with sleep problems.

The techniques that are demonstrated on Supernanny are very helpful to children who are having troubles settling down to sleep.  I think she has a book out, too.  

[jenstam]

Hmm...thanks Peek, I will check into the book. Another good suggestion (:

[Mary 53]

Hi, I am sorry you are having to go through this struggle. I recall my own HUGE struggle with the sleep issue all those years ago. I hope you find this helpful. My perspective is a bit different in that this was a number of years ago (1985) but I promise you that things took a HUGE and WONDERFUL turn once we got the sleep issue figured out. I wrote a similar post some time ago, but thought I would respond to you on this thread. I do feel for you and hope that these words bring some comfort.

I know this is lengthy, but then, this is a huge topic :)

By the way... I think this is a Great Forum!

********************************************************************************

I am impressed with how supportive you all are of one another.

First of all I just want to say hat the method I am going to talk about would not be used until the child is 6 months. I know your child is older, but I thought I would mention that first. Some books say that you can try this if need be at 4 months...I guess I am more comfortable with 6 months since you are building that trust in the parent/child relationship between birth and 6 months, ahthough having said that, there are some babies who do need to have a sort of "fussy time" after you put them down and it is not like you are leaving them to cry on and on ... I have worked with parents who reported that their 3 or 4 month old would fuss for approximately 10 mintues and then fall asleep on their own.... but I think you all know what I mean in that this is not the same as crying it out. I also want to clarify what I see as the difference between really Crying it out (I am referring to the origional meaning of "Crying it Out" whi"ch is not recommended.... but don't stop reading) and what we used to call "The Ferber Method"  which involves helping teach a child how to self-sooth so that they can learn that they can fall asleep on their own....

Having said that, there is nothing MORE special than a good bedtime routine. But then, after the routine, you should expect the child to actually go to sleep without a struggle. But, some kids, as everyone will agree, need to be taught how to sleep.


When my daughter was a baby, "Crying it out" meant you let the child cry and cry and cry and not go in at all to let them know you have not abandonded them..... Talk about Horrible, huh?  That is what some doctors of that time were advising.

Fortunetly, my doctor recommended the Ferber method and I will be eternally greatful for that. I'll tell you, when the Ferber method came along, it was a God-send....and to this day I never think of that method as a form of "crying it out" but again, it is with the perspective of thinking back to 1985.

I am a licensed Parent Educator and used to work with families regarding the sleep issue. I am teaching in a different field now but I do want to share with you what happened to me...us...and also tell you how I have worked with families going thru this.

We had a horrible time with the sleep issue...in an apartment...spouse working crazy hours....COLIC...COLIC  ...you get the picture. My daughter did not learn to sleep all night until she was about 15 months. I was sooo desparate by then. Life/marriage falling apart...and to be honest, a Not-So-Healthy child in that once she finally did start to sleep through the night she was sooo different...Since then I have studied more and more on this and this whole area is so facinating.

By helping them get on a regular schedule of sleep, you are facilitating healthful sleep cycles/health/growth...melatonin, etc...they need that sleep for brain (and body) growth and let's face it, so do we!  And, above all, don't ever forget that Sleep Begets Sleep....So, once you get them sleeping, you can expect more and more of the same. That is the great news.

I used Dr. Richard Ferber's method "Solve Your Child's Sleep Problem."

I had heard of him as my sister worked in a hospital in Boston and knew of him. And, my daughter's doctor appreciated his work. I admit I deviated a bit on his method...I went in to check on her (only if she was still crying) after five minutes...and kept doing the five minute check until I heard her calm down. It took 2 and a half days and that kid slept even at nap time....and the first night was the worst (45 min of crying until it winded down) but I was going in EVERY FIVE minutes......

You just go in and say softly, "Mommy's here...it is not play time...I love you...I will see you in the morning" (I paraphrased) but this way they know you are there and that you are not gone....but, you must let them learn to soothe themselves and that is what you are teaching them.

You are also helping them regulate their sleep cycles and that alone is HUGE.

Years later, I had the VERY good fortune to meet a Doctor  who worked with Dr. Ferber at one time in Boston. The person came to the program where I taught Parent Education for years as a visitor and sometime speaker. I told her that I had played around a bit with Ferber's method in that I went in that first night every five min...and the second night every 7 min....(and that I sent my husband to his Mom's and that I put blankets on the wall so as not to disturb the neighbors in the apartment building, but luckily this did not scare my child!)...and this doctor said, "Hey...Ferber is a Behavioralist ...you essentially followed the plan and it worked."  

I have to tell you that I used it on our dog, too, when she was a puppy 11 years ago. It worked in two days (she'd been bothered by a urinary infection and got her sleep cycles all mixed up)..... I went to the kennel where as a puppy she was sleeping (She is 11 now and sleeps with me!) but I went to the kennel one time after she whined for 5 minutes and spoke softly to her....left.... continued whining....went again to speak to her softly  and then left...ten minutes after that this sweet little puppy went back to sleep and slept for three more hours!



Well, I am happy to report that the kid I did the Ferber method on is now 23, graduated from college finishing 5 years in 4, and now works for a very cool family as a Nanny to two small boys...travels with them all over the country...and, when she is home, she also works as an Intern in a Photography studio. ....She is a neat kid.


OK... as I said, this is a LONG post... I have to split it up.... More in a minute.

Mary

[Mary 53]

Just Finishing up on Ferber:
***************************************
I used to have parents who wanted to try the method in my class and many of them knew my daughter and spouse...and knew we did not damage her for life. But, I totally get that you need to be ready to do this....

I wanted to add one more thing...I think I loved Ferber because he never put the blame on anyone, you know?  He said, "Hey...whatever method you used to get your baby to sleep for however long this has been going on is not working anymore....we have a solution for you." I used to get all that "you are spoiling her" stuff....Just listen to your heart and that plus advice you are comfortable with will get you through.


Also remember that the greatest gift Parents can give a child is a great relationship between themselves. This is tough the first year of the baby's life, but do keep at nuturing that relationship, so if the sleep thing is an issue and  your baby is old enough to try this method, again, I just wanted to say that it works and that you are actually teaching your child a good lesson about heir own self-esteem in that they will inately know that THEY CAN DO THIS.... THEY can comfort themselves.

I swear our baby was a much happier child once she started really sleeping (She was getting up about 8 times a night......   :(       Once she was really rested on a consistent basis with that deep wave and REM sleep as well (that is when they typically wake up if they don't know how to self-sooth) it is like a Personality switch is turned on. It is very cool...and, they will love you for it.


I saw Dr. Ferber on a TV morning show about two years ago that time and all it seemed to me was he was reminding people to use their intuition if they do the program...which is what I think I did by fiddling around with the times and such.

Best of luck.

Take care,

Mary

[kjbutcher]

did you go for that walk?  I think she may try the bottle in the crib method.  I would definately check out what she plans to do instead of rocking.  Now, if he goes to sleep with in minutes of rocking, I would tell her that because it will be easier and will actually keep the routine.  As others have mentioned, he may go right down.  I have had it happen here and parents love it at home because it sticks.  I have also had the horrible experience where I have had to hold a child during the entire nap time just to keep him from crying and waking all of the other children.  I am not saying your child is going to require that...that was just what he was used to at home.  Single mom cuddled all night long and he didnt know how to even sleep alone.  I did  it for 14 months and will never do it again!!  So I understand where she is coming from.  Hopefully he will pick up the routine of all of the children and go right down.  He may end up extra tired just from all of the extra stimulation and be ready for the nap.  I would give it a try and see what happens but I would also show up around nap time and stand outside of the door and listen.  (dont knock every single day if you dont hear anything because you could end up waking all of the children and making a whole boat load of extra cranky work for her)  The sleep book about CIO I have also heard was great because it tells you the exact way to do it and how it effects baby.  I personally was told to do it with DS by his doctor because I was holding him until he was asleep and he was waking up several times a night.  It took 3 nights for him to just fall asleep in his crib and he does not wake up at all at night anymore.  I LOVE IT!!  The three days were horrible for me but it only took a half hour the first night, twenty mins the second and about five mins the third, but I am really happy that I did it.  DS also did the holding on for dear life thing when I picked him up and I felt horrible, but by the end, it was really great for him and I both.  Nap time and Bed time are so much easier on both of us now and I dont have the worry about someone else not being able to put him down.  I would at least check the book out because if she has to do it, it may work out well.  You dont have to worry about being the one to do it and he will still get the benefits and you will know what he is feeling and if you are willing to let it happen at all.  

[kjbutcher]

The cio book was the Ferber book that Mary mentioned.  Now that I hear her explaination, I guess I shouldnt have called it the cio book!

[tiredbuthappy]

i never left dd alone when she was learning to put herself to sleep. i stayed in the room, with my hand on her back the first day. after that for a couple of days i stayed in the room, but sat on the bed on the other side of the room if she stood up. if she sat down i went next to her, and if she layed down in put my hand on her back. if she cried while standing all i said was night-night firmly. when she was listening and laid down, and softly and gently said night-night. after a couple of nights of that i just stayed across the room and reassured her if she fussed. finally, i would start out in the room and slowly move towards the door. this entire process only took about 10 days. each night it never took more than 30 minutes. she never cried more than 30 seconds. if she started up, my interruption with "night-night" really seemed to snap her out of it. now, i put her in the crib, hand her a book, and leave.
she was sick this weekend, and we broke the routine because she had a very high fever. after she was better, it did take 2 days to get her back to going down easy. i just repeated the techniques from the beginning. staying with her across the room, and reassuring her by saying night-night. the first night she complained for 20 minutes, the second day 10. yesterday she went down with no fuss.

as for the bottle, i definitely would not start that habit. it is very very hard to break, and i have seen what it can do to children. sooooo many kids i have worked with had front teeth that were completely rotten (visibly....eeeew). the others who got bottles in bed had many cavities.

[jenstam]

You ladies are just awesome. I am happy to report that tonight I really had no problem. BUT, we will see how many times he wakes up tonight, too. He still, 13 months later, does not sleep through the night. He averages 2 wakings each night. His Father scoops him up and brings him into bed with us. I have talked with him about this and we need to nip it in the bud yesterday. Anyhow, back to his bedtime tonight. At about 7:30 I gave him a bath, then allowed him to play for a bit in his room while I sat in the rocking chair. I read him a book, gave him a special blanky that we will give him every night and then he got his bottle. He did drift off a bit, but not into a sound sleep. He was still rolling around and trying to find a comfortable spot once I put him into his crib. Then, when I went back in to check on him, he was asleep! It was simple tonight, but like I said, we will have to see how many times he wakes up tonight. Hopefully none. He needs to learn how to sleep and soothe. We are both so tired, have crazy hectic schedules and it is taking its toll on all of us.

I really hope Brody learns to sleep on his own in the days to come. It will make his transition to daycare much easier. Tired, kj and Mary thank you so much for taking the time to share your story, experience and expertise on the subject. It really is a tough one. It's amazing the messes we can get into with our children out of love! Now, I just need to get my butt to bed!

[jenstam]

Oh, also wanted to mention I do have the Ferber Method book. Not too long ago our Pediatrician borrowed it to us so I am familiar with the book, just never read it because I wasn't ready! Now I am.

[thisbabygrama2one]

I know that though you dont want to have him go to day care at all, it may be to your benifit to start him a few days early so that someone from your family may be able to be more available to check on him if you really stress out yourself.  I was thinking it was your first day back on sept 2nd, but thats not the case right?  I just felt it would be way too hard on you going back AND baby going to day care the same day...  I feel for you.  You sound such a wonderful mom..  All will be well...

[jenstam]

Thank you. I actually am working full time, but the family member and then my older daughters that have been watching him are all returning to school on September 2nd and we will no longer have anyone to care for him while we are at work. I am still not convinced this is what is best for our family, but I need healthcare for us, which is why I continue to work right now.

Brody woke up at 12:36 am. I wanted to let him cry for a bit to see if he would settle down but his Father had a very hard time with it and considers it cruel. I don't know how we are going to settle this. He doesn't want to let him fuss, I want him to learn how to soothe himself now. I went in about 7 minutes or so and rubbed his back, talked quietly and kept trying to get him to lay back down. He seemed to be trying to fall back asleep, so I left the room and laid back down. In a minute or so he fussed again. Ben insisted he get a bottle to comfort him, I disagreed but told him I need sleep, if he can get him back to sleep do what he pleases. The bottle and some rocking worked, but we cannot do that every night. We are not getting sleep and are snapping at each other in the middle of the night with our disagreements over what he needs. I dream of ONE NIGHT that I can get a solid 8 hours. The last two nights, with Ben's schedule and him coming home right as I'm drifting off to sleep around 11 pm, I am averaging about 5 hours of sleep, sometimes less. I just cannot function normally with that little sleep. We need to nip this in the bud. I need his cooperation!!

Anybody else have differing opinions with their spouse/partner on how to handle sleeping/nighttime routines? The problem is that when I'm the one that wants to be the more stern one, not wanting to give into his wishes to be brought into our bed anymore and then Dad is the one who is the softy, he catches on real quick who he can manipulate! I need him to be on the same page as me. Otherwise, maybe he can make himself a nice cozy spot in Brody's room and they can play all night! I need sleep! We can't also forget the reason why we are working on this issue in the first place...to prepare him for daycare!

[kjbutcher]

Unfortunately when AJ wakes up in the middle of the night and actually cries he doesnt go back down alone.  I did find though that when he got good at going to sleep quickly after being put in bed he didnt wake up in the middle of the night.  Hopefully after a few more nights of soothing himself to sleep when he wakes up in the middle of the night he will go back to sleep with out ever crying.  
See i have the opposite problem in the middle of the night.  DH sleeps right through it and wouldnt mind if he cried all night long so I am the one doing all of the work.  I guess it makes it easier when it is one person following one set of rules.  
I would say maybe do a quick read through of the book and tell your husband what it says and come up with a game plan for the middle of the night so you are both on the same page.  Maybe DH will want to be the one to do the soothing in the middle of the night as long as he does what the book says.

[jenstam]

Yes-he is very, very attentive to our son and I am also, but at this point want to teach him to be able to sooth a little bit at least. He has the guilt as well as I do though, of not spending enough time with him. He works 10 hour days up in the twin cities and drives an hour and a half each way, so is gone a total of about 13-14 hours each day. He leaves mid morning and doesn't return until late night. That is his special time with him so I have to try to be understanding also. We will work on it, together.

[Mary 53]

Hi,

SInce I had done all of the research on this topic back when we put Katie through this program I decided to send my spouse to live at his Mom's for a few days so that we wouldn't have this argument in the night. My husband's take on it would have been that he needed HIS sleep (he's a good guy...he was just a bit more exhausted at this point than I was and although he was supportive, he would have been awakened, too, in our apartment at the time). Best thing I ever did... sending him to his Mom's. It took 2 and 1/2 Days to do this program.

Honestly. You could have knocked me over with a feather. The first night was very similar to another poster... it was 45 minutes of me going in at five minute intervals (again, I changed Ferber's way just a little on the time issue) and I did not touch our daughter since I wanted to let her know that nothing was going to be gained by her getting up in the night. I just softly said, "I know you can do this... I am here, Night night."  Then I would wait...watch TV..read... sit and stew... and once that clock hit the 45 min. mark, she started to wind down... So.. I waited...and about 7 or 8 min. later for the final check for that "session," and  I walked in to find a sleeping child.

Then she awoke in the night and we went through the same thing for 30 minutes. That was it. TWICE UP IN ONE NIGHT???? THAT ALONE WAS A MIRACLE. This Child averaged getting up about 7 times or 8 times a night.  Was it hard? YES.... was it Worth it???? Oh my gosh. That poor child was so sleep deprived that I then was beating myself up for not doing the program earlier. The second night she awoke only twice again and I checked her every 7 minutes. By the next day, she was saying "nigh-nigh" when I put her for her nap. I think she fussed for about five minutes. That weekend, we had a baby sitter and I told her what to do regarding this. She put Katie down and did not hear a thing for about ten minutes. She was stunned. She walked in to Katie's room quietly and saw Katie standing at the side of the crib... and Katie said in her baby voice, "hi Sarah." Sarah about fainted but left the room. The kid slept all night.

I agree with the previous poster...read over Ferber again and just get all the info you can if you need to so you can present your case (sorry for the lawyer speak... but, I'll tell  you... there were times I had to present evidence to my husband that the things I was doing were the right things... He finally saw the light! ). But, if you think about it...  just remind your partner that your son NEEDS TO GET SLEEP.... DEEP uninterrupted sleep. He needs it for BRAIN development. He will learn to sleep on his own soon. You are teaching him how to do it. What a gift !!!  Babies fuss. That is what they do. The baby is just doing what he has done all along. And, that worked for awhile. But, it is not working anymore, you know? I get that. But, as the parent, you do know what is best and for all of this sleep deprevation to continue is not right. You are changing the game plan and the baby needs to adjust. Just remind  your partner that it might take a few days, but that's the way it goes. Otherwise, your partner is just continuing the cycle of sleepless nights (or interrupted at least).

And, to start with a bottle just compounds the problem. If a baby is used to getting food at a certain point in the night, the body will come to expect it and will awaken just for the food because the body is sending signals that it is time to eat. Then you have to break THAT habbit...and then eating in the daytime gets all messed up. Ferber's book addresses this in a very clear way.

Oh dear. I did not mean to go on and on. I really feel for you. Your thread hit a chord with me. And, I see you live just a few hours from me. We both are in Minnesota!


One more thing on the whole Spending time with the child and guilt. Here is the thing... and I will come at it purely from a developmental point of view. A short amount of time with your son, who is rested, getting that deep and nurturing sleep for a sound and healthy body and brain is better than spending a longer period of time with a child who is in need of deep and restorative sleep. I am not kidding when I say that I noticed a distinct change in our child once she was sleeping normally. She just seemed happier and calmer and more playful. And, as she got even just a little older... she slept like a log and still does at 23!

Well, I hope you know where I am coming from.  I offer you my support and wish you the very best. Things will be okay...

Sincerely, Mary

[jenstam]

Ah, Mary...you are in Minneapolis I didn't notice that! Yep, not too far off. Ben actually works at Best Buy Corporate up there. He drives from Rochester every stinkin' day. We are looking at moving up closer, possibly Plymouth or Eagan. Not now but in the next few years once he is done with school and starts making the big bucks. Ha!

Hey, thanks for your tips, advice and deep understanding of this issue. It is a big deal in our house right now and we are not on the same page. Yet. I think we will get there. I protested the bottle issue for a while last night until I was so exhausted I finally rolled over in bed and said "Do what you please!" Not good, I know. We are just starting this process and we have to be consistent so hopefully this will get better very soon. I need to address this again tonight before bedtime. I think I am actually just going to make him sit down and read this whole post.

Anyhow, thanks to everyone for sharing your stories and experiences. It really has given me some direction. I just never had these issues with my older daughters! I was a stay at home Mom then and I don't know...they were just put to bed at an early age and slept through the night! My son is more high maintenance and the troubles he had early on are what really started all of this. We wanted him close and felt so bad for him. It was all done out of love, I swear ;)

[Mary 53]

Hi..

I am so glad  you understood the spirit of my post. Our daughter's colic was so bad for so long... that is what started our problems... and we were in an apartment. I would pick her up at the drop of a hat, so I never even gave her a chance to learn how to comfort herself. I will write again later...we are on our way out, but I wanted to just get back to you. And, again, I loved Ferber before I even tried to do the program because he wrote such kind words at the beginning of his book about understanding just what you said... We do things out of love and for a time they work.. but when they don't...well, that is when you need to look for advice and support. He was never one to Blame anyone for a sleep problem Thank Goodness!

I live about five miles from Best Buy Corp. Headquarters.

And, I worked in Eagan for three plus years. It is a small world, isn't it?

Take care and let us know how things go if you don't mind.

Mary

[mlb1234]

Just a little comment that maybe you could sleep with the blanky so it smells like mommy and then send it with him to daycare.  I know it would make me feel a little better knowing maybe he could find some comfort in something that reminded him of mommy if he is having a hard time in his first days at daycare.  
Best of luck - I really feel for you.  I have been worried about how to wean dd when the time comes...now I nurse her and rock her to sleep for naps and at night and she is dependent on it too (also does not take a paci).  This post has given me some ideas to try before we go cold turkey.  Thanks!

[Trialanderror]

I feel for you! I am a bit late but wanted to add that the absence of Mom and Dad during daycare hours and the presence of other infants or toddlers may even make it easier on Brody to adjust to new nap routines. The transition will be easier for him with a few familiar items such as a receiving blanket or a piece of your clothing as was said before but I think an infant is quite aware that even if the babysitter were to rock him to sleep, it`s still not Mom or Dad. He will work on adjusting.
Main thing is that each day he is assured that you are coming back and maybe you can talk to the daycare provider to let him nap in a place that is totally different from where he usually sleeps at night so he doesn`t worry he will have to stay there all night.
My son started home daycare at 10 months. Initially only for a few hours per day, partially with me being there, interacting with the daycare provider and then, after one week, he spent about 9 hours in her care because I had no other choice. I asked her to let him sleep on the floor on a mat and give him his blankie. Apparently he was too nervous to nap for a few days and she let him play quietly but by day 4 he voluntarily started taking his naps.
You are already doing the right thing practicing the falling-asleep stage with Brody. It is easier at an earlier age but never too late. I never believed in CIO either and went with the 5-minute reassurance method instead. Soon it doesn`t take much more than him hearing your voice through the door when he shifts from one dreamy stage to another. What you want to do though is eliminate any inconsistancy. You may have to decide that only one of you parents is taking the lead in this for a while. Nothing worse than parents losing it in front of the nursery door about how to handle sleep issues. It will just prolong the process.
And bottle in crib? Don`t go there. This is truly the hardest habit to break! Hope all turns out well and you will be all relaxed in a while!