Man, you guys ran into another snag eh? Damn it. I saw something you posted on another thread and I am sorry to hear about all of the grief going on. Somedays it all looks so grim, and others it looks so bright.....
On that other thread, you mentioned me being right. Thanks for that, but just the same, I wish I didnt know anything about infidelity. You know, I have read and re-read everything ever written to me on these boards in order to get a good udnerstanding about what was really being said. Most of the information was priceless and just the right prescription, but some did not apply. (That didnt make it bad info, in fact was able to pass some of it along and hopefully helped some other folks out)
I guess it comes down to what you really feel in your heart and gut. I know where I am, and I know its the right decison for me to keep persuing this relationship, and I know that Dee Dee is there too. And there are some things that she is having a hard time with. I get that, I totally do and know good and well that if the situation ran the other way, I would be having a hard time with alot of this as well.
My only fear now is, what if something from this time pops up, something that I forgot about and didnt mention when I was coming clean.... that scares me. I know in my heart of hearts that I have spelled it out as best I can. I know that I am not purposely hiding anything, as I have nothing to hide at this point. When it came down to actually getting it out in the open, I exposed all of the dirtiest secrets first....and anything else that could come out would be detail oriented. I honestly know that I am NOT hiding anything purposely, and I really think Dee Dee knows that too.
We have come so far with this, and you guys were part of our hope and inspriration. I hope you put alot of thought into whats happening. You have so much going on around you, and I know its hard to do, but you need to keep everything seperated. Whats happening with the kids is with the kids, and whats happening between you 2 is between you 2. They are seperatae issues and should be dealt with in that fashion.
I don't now what advise I could give you. From what I have read about Life Crises I'm the same as all the others, except that there was no affair, though there was another woman that triggered me off, she pulled away from me when she saw that I was in a great deal of personal conflict about my feelings. She also is going through her own Life Crises so I didn't persue her either. We were friends for about 12 months before things changed between us, and it happened so suddenly.
My wife and I are doing so well now. We talked openly about my feelings and hers. We spend as much time together as possible with regular weekends away.
I knew from the start that what I was feeling was not normal for me so I fought the urges to run away. I still struggle over my feelings for this other woman, I can't escape it but I am dedicated to my wife and our life together. I know that in time I will be able to get over these feelings and as she is no longer working with me I hope that I can finally settle back down. The hardest thing for me, over this last 12 months is that we still worked together and that we would not talk to each other. It was a constant reminder to me as to what happened. My wife never deserved any of this and I am so sorry that I caused her so much pain, but I could not control these feelings and they ate me up inside.
I guess when it all boils down, it is up to him to want to get back on track. It's hard to explain how controlling and confusing these feeling are. I didn't look for this. It takes a long time for both to get over this sort of thing. As Brice says, things do, from time to time, pop up, but we talk about them and that's important, I feel.
Yes Brice another snag. While Kate was in the hospital my cell phone died, not the charge just up and went! So Joe brought me his old cell, but my battery and sim in it and I used that. ( This was the one he had when he was chatting up his co worker). Seeing Joe was home with the boys at night and I was in the hospital with Kate we used that opportunity to send each other some pretty racy texts ( not unusual for us like to keep things jumping) anyway, the next morning I went to delete them ( did not want my kids getting a hold of them would scar them for life) but I also found some old ones and pics from HER! Now, this all took place in 2009 from mid July to the end of August. I had asked him if they ever exchanged pics. He said no. He swore to it. But at that time I found a pic of him in his draft folder that he tried to sent to her ( nothing bad just a head shot ) but it still made me mad b/c he lied. At that time he swore there was nothing else. Well the pics of her I found ( in another mail box ) were of her in her under garments. So I was pretty angry ( more a bout the lies) We talked about it and I realize it has been over but I hate the lying. So then on Friday Kate and I return home, Joe goes back to work, comes home with my phone repaired so I use that again, but have to let it charge. I pick up his cell to use it to call my sister and when I do the media timer comes up says you are not logged out. So I open it and it is a web site of naked women. ( Now we have never been into porn. Some are but I feel it opens doors that do not need to be opened and my self esteem is already shot from the past situation) I calmly ask him what the hell is this. His said IDK. Whatever! But I do not want to fight about it. I was more annoyed about the lie then the pics, and the fact that my 14 and 9 year old boys could have gotten them.
The next day I text him and tell him I know he is lying and if he would just be honest we could work through this, so he calls and said yes, he was on it, it was his first time and he actually just closed his phone b/c he just could not do it. He said he had been reading texts I sent him and he got worked up and thus went to site ( like that makes me feel good) I mean yes I gained a few lbs and may not be what I was but I am not God awful! I take care of myself work out religiously and even have been asked to compete by my trainer. I just don't get it.
All that being said. We are good now, I really think he is depressed and may need some help.
Lost1000, Our situation is much like yours. Joe and I met when I was 18 he was 20. I was a wild city girl ( pink hair, lots of trouble and a PK ( preachers kid) at that) He was a down home southern boy from a very small town in Va. Complete opposites. But we met at school fell in love and Married 1/2 through. I was 20 when we married he was 22. Now, as I said I was a wild child and he had only had one serious relationship before me and they were never intimate. I always felt guilty about that. Like I was some used trash and it was not fair to him but he never treated me that way. We have 4 children now ( adopted our eldest and 3 natural) During my 2nd pregnancy we found out that Joe was adopted. He never knew that ( he was 27 when we found out). His adoptive parents died suddenly when he was 13 and he moved in with his older sister who made it clear that she really did not want him there. So when he was 18 he moved out. Well in 2009 our adopted son started really giving us trouble. Our only daughter has a long term illness and requires constant care and is in and out of the hospital and our youngest son is autistic. So you can imagine all the stress. I was overwhelmed with life and our adopted son was become physically abusive toward me and the other children. I had to have him arrested. I was also busy with work and taking care of my parents. Joe and I were fighting all the time. He had a female co- worker ( 20 years younger ) he had just broken off an abusive relationship and had a 2 year old daughter. She turned to Joe for advice and a shoulder to cry on, and he got sucked into helping her and before you he knew it they were having an emotional affair. He said there were never feelings of love for her and it was mainly her giving him the attention he craved. she would make sexual remarks to him but he would say I can't do that but was very flirty. He ended it a few days before I found out. But I found out and it devastated me. But it actually worked out well for us because we both realized there were priorities we needed to get right and we have gotten much closer then before. I turned to med help for help as well as counseling but Joe turned to a female client. I did not know about it, Just friends and gave him advice on us but he hid it from me b/c he knew how I would feel about it. When I found out he lied about it. The thing is I believe he was starting to fall back into the emotional connection. So we started counseling together but he could not make the first one we had together and then the above happened. I really believe he is having a hard time getting older. He has always been physically active, a ball player, real characteristic and great looking but he injured his back and now can not play organized ball any more. I think that was his outlet. Plus he was always in the paper for his abilities and such, so received constant praise . I just am hear broken and feel like I am not enough or good enough for him.
Well, I have to tell you. Me getting help with my depression issues is/was the best thing for me. It has really helped, and me feeling better is helping me and Dee Dee thru this. (Glad to hear that you guys are good now)
I am not going to make excuses for Joe, but I'd like to offer something up. The pics on the phone shuld have been gone, no doubt. Kind of not so cool at all.... but thats another discussion. What I wanted to get at is this.... the pics are old, from back when this was happening. If they arent knew, there are no knew developements there. It's in the past.... (I know it conjures stuff up, I get that....but that was then and this is now)
I am not so for sure that he was purposely lying about them not exchanging pics. Might be, might not...and here's why. With everything considered, there was a lot of stuff going on at the time. The affair was exposed and he is coming clean, the kids....Kate.... all of the lying, the deception...he was thinking about your feelings, what he did to you, how he hurt you...... all of that stress. Isnt it at least remotely possible that he forgot about the pics??? (I am not trying to sway your thoughts, nor am I trying to give Joe any excuses..... I know with all of the stress that I have created, Dee Dee and I are forgetting all kinds of stuff.)
Just wanted to throw that out there, do with it as you will. Just relax a little bit. When you start to get cranked up a bit, take a second, a deep breath, find your center again, think happy positive thoughts and then proceed. I do think its real important to remember to keep all of the stresses isolated. Do not let one set of stress influence another.
I totally agree with you. He said the first time he lied about it b/c he was trying to save me the pain. The second time was b/c I totally freak out. When he said that it made me take a long hard look at myself. I want him to be honest yet I do not foster a safe atmosphere for that honesty. I remember being a kid and afraid to tell my mom the truth because I knew if she knew it she would freak on me. So if I want the truth I need to take it calmly and then freak when he is not around lol! But not on him. Yes, it is over and yes they are old. The web site kinda made me mad b/c he knows the issues I have with body image. ( Use to be a fitness instructor and Kick boxer in the 90's but got prego in 2000 and put to bed for 7 months. Needless to say the weight piled on.) I had a complete hysterectomy after the birth of that child due to complications so that did not help matters, I gained a total of 60lbs in a year. Took off 35 of them but still have 25 more to go. The first woman could have been my clone before the gain except for her face but same build hair color height etc. Second woman did not look like me at all but very thin and then the web site well........ He said he does not want me to go back to my pre prego weight. ( was to small but seems to be his taste) but he can say that but his actions say other wise. Other then that we are well.
He has been depressed dealing with adoption, having to put our son out ( that relationship has been restored ) Kate being ill. Our finances have been hit hard due to her illness and the economy and his back injury. He did go to seek help just before the affair started but did not like the doctor and after 2 visits quit going.
I also think his self esteem was an issue. He felt as a failure as a dad with our eldest, He could not fix Kate's problems, I was pulling my hair out with our youngest ( thank God we got him the help and diagnoses needed) and I will say my family was not very supportive of him at this time. They felt ( not knowing he was dealing with depression ) that he was burring himself in his work and leaving me to handle all of this ( which was true) and they made sure he knew that is how they felt. So now, I can see this. IT took a long time to look past my hurt and instead of treat the symptoms treat the cause of it. We go back to the doctor on the 4th. Hoping he will open up. I told him I will leave 1/2 way through so he can talk with her alone. He said it may be what is needed. We will see.
Good!!! Good for you guys giving the doc another crack at it! Is it a different doc this time? I kid you not, I had always been opposed to seeing someone about my issues, but I knew we needed help to get through this. Dee Dee told me she wanted me to get help with my other issues and swore she would too. I get in the office and stat spilling the beans.....I couldnt shut up. All of a sudden it came easy to me. Maybe its because I want my marrige to work or the fact that I am tired of not dealing with my issues... irregardless, I broke out the truth and couldnt quit! I was alot easier telling these horrible things to someone I didnt know, far easier than telling womeone I did know.... (I dont get that, but it worked for me)
And something I found out about the self esteem issues.... its totally tied to everything from my past. I have always been pretty sure about myself, especially around friends or peers. I dont know where that came from because I was never sure of where I stood with my dad. I could be anywhere at any given moment with him, and there never was a clue as to where we'd be 5 minutes from now. I was always a little reluctant around women. (Lacks assertiveness and passive/aggressive is what Ive been told) Even when they'd tell me exactly what they thought, I thought to the contrary. I dont know why, and I havent recieved an explanation about that yet.
Anger Management: This ones a hoot. I used to run a nightclub/saloon. AS the bar manager, I was also the head doorman. On occaision we would have to remove a patron from the bar physically (if they became combative). I always had the best, most even demeanor when dealing with this, but if someone got my goat I would totally blow out. Then, and here comes the nutty stuff, I would be mad at me for not handling myself as professional as I could have. While being mad at myself, I would take it out on my family sometimes or it would throw me into a depression because I wasnt living up to my standards. When I am stressed, it comes off looking as if I am mad. When I am upset, it comes off looking as if I am mad..... so for a long time, my family couldnt tell what was up and I must have looked like a raving lunatic!!! I am glad they hung around and am real glad they are sticking around through this.... I know what a special deal I have and will never jeopardize it again!!!
Anyhow, what I am learning is...everything needs to be kept seperate. One issue shouldnt contaminate the others. When doing this, it really is easier to deal with because I am dealing with one small issue at a time instead of a giant hairball....
Wow, you guys are so similar to us. we married at 24, 26. Vic was the wild one and I was shy and reserved. When we started our family we had to through out all of the topless photos of her. She was the first girl I ever approached. We will be celebrating our 25 wedding anniversary next year. We have 2 children. My son was the one who took after his mother and he became quite wild and got into a lot of trouble, nothing too serious, but it caused us a lot of stress. He has turn out well now and is doing well for himself. It was worth the stresses.
I first met my friend at work, we started around the same time at an newly opening Hotel. I can remember the first time we were introduced and I felt scared of her straight away, but we got to know each other and became friends. She is 18 years younger than me. She would flurt with me often, nothing sexual, but I got used to that. I carry a bunch of keys with me for work and she would call out hello before ahe even saw me, she would here the keys rattling as I walked. Until the change there were no feelings for her other then as a friend. Something happened shortly after she separate from her husband and it started. I think that a lot of it was over concern for her safety, but I lost control and fell apart. I know if she didn't pull away from me when she did, it would have gone further. The last 12 months working with her have been hell to say the least, but she is gone know and I hope that I can now start to realy settle down.
Vic and I too are now much closer then ever before. She had a mini stroke a few months back and I almost lost her, but she has recovered well now. The only thing I have kept from her are details about my friend, she knows nothing about her, not a name or what she looks like, because I know that she would not cope with it and it would break us up.
I didn't walk out on my wife because of this, as so many do. I think because deep down I now that the love we share will be there till death do us part. I always love her but things became so clouded that I just could not deal with it all. We are all human and therefore subject to having feelings for others. The feelings I have for my friend were just so strong I couldn't deal with guilt of feeling that way for another woman when I have such a beautiful wife. I want my life back as before this happened but we have also changed for the better because of it all. I couldn't control what happened. I know that Vic still struggles with it all from time to time and I hope that in time it will settle into the background of our lives.
I did a couple of councelling sessions on my own and found that I opened right up. It felt good.
Hey man.... I feel you man. I stepped out on the best thing in the world, and I cannot explain why. I am normally a pretty graphic dude, full of explanation, but I have nothing here. I know how special my relationship is/was with my wife now....but I dont know what clouded the waters. (And that is my reality, I really have no idea what was missing) I had it all man, and for some dumb *** reason I risked it all...... pitiful dude, really friggin pitiful.
(I had a few beers waiting for Dee Dee to get home....been a long work week)
For me, I have always been so "cut and dry" with everything. I always thought there was an obvious reason for everything, and I thought every story told itself, but that just isnt the case.
I am not trying to remove any of my guilt or place blame.... I am a big boy, I did this, and I am 100% responsible, but I'll be damned if I can come up with a reason behind what I did. I had it all man. Granted, we are not wealthy, but there really wasnt anything I lacked. I had all of the love, all of the support, and everything else a man could need....but I am troubled enough in my own head that I didnt always recognize it. (That will never happen again!!!
For years, I miss directed anger and for a lack of better words, just didnt deal with my problems. My wife was not the problem, she was the solution! Fact of the matter is, I have always misdirected anger.... always. I either store it to be used later of completely flew off the handle. Again, not an excuse. it too is lame.
I wihd you folks all the luck in the world. I know where I am at and the issues that are involved are worth it in the long haul. I have the worlds most incredible woman and she will never go a day without knowing that I know that. Keep getting help....both of you. This is doable!!!
Thanks guys. I guess Joe really does not know why he did it. He says the same thing as both of you. The thing is woman are not immune to this situation either. I guess maybe just stronger at times ( no offense). I realized that men are hunters by nature ( sounds so primitive) and it really is all about the chase. Woman are nurturers by nature so they are willing to lay down there desires for the sake of others. I have been in situations plenty of times where I let the attention of another man go to my head and even desired to play the game but I just could not do it ( not saying have an affair but the whole flirty emotional process) I could not hurt Joe like that or my children, yet he fell right into it. I think we just get so caught up in the mundane aspect of everyday life and when something like this comes along ( something not real, no strings, exciting) it is easy to get caught up in it if we do not keep our guard up.
Joe and I were talking about how America seems to have gotten so comfortable in her ways, her status, her prosperity that she kinda fell asleep, her guard was not up, not aware of the situations going on around her and Bam! here we are today. Joe started crying ( does much more of that now then ever before) he said that is exactly what happened to us. He was so comfortable in the security of our relationship that he was lulled into a sleep state and thus his guard was down.
All of us couples ( 3 of us in this convo) seem to be around the same age. ( I assume in our 40's) and it is the men here that seem to have strayed either physically or emotionally, this is why I wounder if it is not a mid life crisis thing. Like I said Joe said he had no intention of getting physically involved with this woman ( as I am sure that was not your intention Brice) but the chase ( just knowing that there were woman out there who were still attracted to him ) the game was exciting but I too believe if he did not end it when he did that he would have taken it to the next level. The only difference in our situations is that Brice the other woman in your case is out of the pic, Lost , you stated that she no longer works with you, Here on the other hand, is one of my husbands supervisors and the other woman is a client of his. IT really stinks for me!
My friend has only been gone for a couple of months now. I feel scared by it all and I live day to day with her ghosts. There is always something that pops up that reminds me of her. I have even passed her on the road recently and I came accross her at a Motel near were I work, she was homeless at that time and I don't want that for her and her son. I feel like I will never escape these feelings. I can't wait to get home at night because I feel safe from the ghosts when I'm with my wife. I live in silence about this, I can't see that anyone can help me. I hope that it will fade in time as long as I don't see or have any more contact with her.
At first when Vic and I started to talk about it all, we too identified that our relationship, though good, had lulled into a sleep state, as you put it. Both of our kids had just left home and at first we missed the opportunity to live our own lives, they leave such a hole when they leave. We have now address that issue and do a lot more together. Day trips, weekends away. It feels like when we first got together. We have good fun together. I guess raising your family takes so much of your time, so many years, that we tend to forget about US. There lye's the danger.
Have you sought any professional help? I mean about your feelings. I agree with you on as you say suffering in silence b/c it think it would hurt your wife to know you still care for this woman. Whenever my husband mentions anything about work involving her I get a knot in my stomach.
I can't see that talking to a councellor will help in this regard. I'm hoping that these feelings will fade away in time now that she has gone. Also, if I were to go back to see the councellor Vic would know that I'm still trying to address my feelings and that alone would upset her again, I don't want that. I also try to avoid talking about work because I know that it upsets her, it brings back those memories for her.
When I first realised that she was not coming back it was like she died, it hurt so much. It happened so suddenly, no warning. It feels like I'm in mourning and I have to mourn on my own, but I know that time will heal this.
I guess the people I talk to here, like yourself, are my councellors. This is a place that I can talk openly in and to people that understand and are dealing with similar issues. I feel it helps me to get things out of my head. I only have one other friend that I can talk to, but I don't see her too often.
Hey man, I just wanted to start this by saying that I am not judging you at all.... But here's whats getting me. You mentioned that by going back to a therapist that Vic would know that youre still trying to address your problems..... why wouldnt you address youre problems? Take it from me, storing this stuff or thinking that it will just go away is a giant mistake. I've been storing things my whole life, and it all has come back to bite me in the hind end.
I totally get how you dont want to upset Vic, but by not addressing this now, it will come up again, and probably from a different angle making it harder to understand. I've stored crap for so long that how I deal with it now is so often misdirected! Thats the real tragedy....from a different angle, this same old problem manifests itself into a new problem.
For me, talking to a therapist was the best thing Ive done in a long time. I had a few friends that actually gave me good advice at the beginning, as to what I should do next and how to handle it. A couple of my other friends were just going along and telling me what I kind of wanted to hear instead of what I needed to hear. The therapist turned out to be just the ears I needed to be talking into. Not only did I get things off of my chest and into the open, I got stats, I got plans of attack, I got coping skills..... it was all too valuable.
You have to do what you think is best, but just be sure that you have thought about the whole problem, inside and out.
Thanks mate, I did see a councellor a while ago and I was able to get out what I needed to. Just talking with him was good and I got a lot better understanding of me and why this thing happened. I believe know that as she is now out of my life I can move on, finally. She has been the stumbling block in my life up until now. Lately, I have felt more settled and I know that as time goes by I will forget her altogether. A lot of this was 'over concern' for a friend that caused me a lot of internal conflict and the tension that it caused at work, between my friend and I, just keeped it alive far to long.
This all started in August 09 and Vic and I are doing so well now. It's been a long road but I feel as though I'm just about there.
The issue that was identified with me was an attachment between us, that developed over a period of time and that has now been addressed with her leaving. Though it was painfull for me it was what was neccessary for me to get over these feelings.
Lost, you were going through it the same time Joe and I were. I am glad you are doing so well and we are always here. So many people on this site have helped me so much too. I guess it is just easy for some of us to take what we have for granted.
This site has been a life saver for me. When I first responded to a post, Mami found me and took an interest in my situation. She has been the best thing. She helped me understand what Vic was going through and also helped me to recognise and deal with my attachment issue. I don't know were I'd be if she hadn't.
I wouldn't be supprised if I saw her on Oprah one day. :)
I guess the biggest thing I learn't is that even a union of love still requires work, in that it will struggle if you just let it coast along without putting in an effort to nurture it.
Here too. She was the first one to contact me and was a life saver. I think I would have run from it all if she had not been a rock to lean on. She actually recommended I contact you last week, So that you could help me understand what Joe was going through.
I hope this has helped. I found the whole thing a very painfull experience nowing that if I couldn't deal with those feelings I was going to cause Vic so much hurt, and I did. No one deserves to go through this, least of all the innocent partners, but we can't always control life. I think that regardless of what happened I never stopped loving Vic and that's why it hurt me so much. I was fully aware of the pain that was coming to her but I couldn't stop it from happening. I have always been a person in control of myself, I was the rock in my family, and to crumble like I did took me by surprise.
I hope you and Joe are doing better now. Vic and I have a much stronger bond now, Vic still has the occasional downer but far and few between. She knows that she can talk to me about it without having a argument and we move on. You can't live in the past, though the past does shape our futures.
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