MS Hug - necessarily a thoracic lesion?

[rendean]

I'm new around here but have already received a warm welcome from LULU :). I read the information regarding the MS hug but have an addtional question. I don't believe I have any  thoracic lesions, but my last MRI (Dec, 08) was of the brain and cervical region. Anyway, would symptoms of the "hug" come from a lesion in the thoracic region even if it wasn't "seen' by the neuro reading my films?

[rendean]

Hello and thank you for the post!  Guess I need to push for a thoracic scan next time around. In fairness to the MS specialist, I did not tell him about the rib pain as I was thinking it was due to the Sjogren's. This info was passed on to me by my less than hands-on  rheumatologist who was fond of saying, "Yes, Sjogren's can cause that and that and that" and whatever I asked. In his defense, though, he said he had never seen Sjogren's present with my particular set of symptoms.

I do believe the MRI machine used by my MS guy is a 3T because about 9 months ago he said they were getting a new machine and new software to run MRI specific to MS needs.

And thanks, for the warm welcome and wealth of information, from you and the entire community. Wish I had stumbled across this sooner. In just a few short days I have had my sanity renewed. I am NOT crazy and I am not imagining all of these weird sensations and symptoms. At least if I am, I'm in very good company!

Thanks!
Rendean

[Quixotic1]

Slightlybroken is right-on.  Because the area involved involves an area that goes all or most of the way around the torso, (or a limb) for that matter, the HUG has to be from the spinal cord.  It would involve too much area in the brain.

The fact that it didn't show up on MRI does not mean much.  The fact that you have it points to a thoracic lesion.  Do you also have hyperactive reflexes in your legs?

The spinal cord is notoriously difficult to get good images on MRI.  Many neurologists believe that the common MRI machines which are 1.5T and lower in strength just cannot visualize small lesions.  We have heard several neurologists who don't want to look at an MRI of the spine done on less than a 3T machine.  (T means Tesla, which is the unit of measurement for the magnets used in the MRI).  Mine is one of them.

When I was being diagnosed I had a negative spine MRI on a 1.5T machine.  Then, he immediately ordered a repeat MRI on a 3T machine because I had so many things on exam that pointed to spinal lesions.  The 3T MRI showed 6 lesions that the weaker machine had missed.

The MRI is not the "be all" of what is going on in the central nervous system.  The phsycial exam and history is very important.  Unfortunately, when a symptom is "invisible", like the sensation of the Hug, if there isn't a matching lesion some neurologists will tell you that you don't have the sensation or that you are anxious.  This means they don't believe your report of the squeezing sensation.  We need to run from these doctors.

As I have said since the beginiing of the forum and was recently reinforced by Dr. Kantor, some lesions are invisible.  Also some lesions are in silent parts of the brain.  There is not necessarily a visible MRI lesion for every symptom nor is there a symptom matching every MRI lesion.

The MRI is only a tool.  It provides part of the evidence only.  It does not make the diagnosis for the doc.

There is a Health Page on this.  Over at the right hand side of this page down at the near bottom, you will see a box labeled, "Most Viewed Health Pages.  You might click on "Lesions vs. Symptoms" and read it.

I hope this helps.  And welcome over to the Light Side of the Moon!

Quix

[slightlybroken]

Hi

From what I've read..The MS HUG...can come from a spinal lesion. So I take it that it can occur anywhere in the spine (c or t-spine). Here's something that describes it.

"It is caused by a lesion on the spinal cord and is technically classified as a neuropathic pain called a “paresthesia,” which refers to any abnormal sensation. The sensation itself is the result of tiny muscles between each rib (intercostal muscles) going into spasm. These muscles have the job of holding our ribs together, as well as keeping them flexible and aiding in movement, like forced expiration. Some people experience difficulty breathing or painful breathing, so severe that it is often perceived as a heart attack or panic attack."

[opie74]

HI!

I was just reading, and thought that I wold say hello.  My cousin linved in Warner Robbins.  She had Sjogren's also.  Her doctor was in Atlanta.  He brother works in a hospital there.  Anyway, her symptoms and MS did have alot in common.  When I started having MS symptoms, they tested me for Sjogren's.  It was negative.  For that, I am thankful.  I hope that you get some definate answers.

Opie

[doni54]

Hi rendean,

Wow, just 2 hrs, that's great!!!  

I hope you get your answers soon, sounds like you do have a really good neuro and that's 95% of the battle!!

Last time, when they did the brain MRI, I was able to pick up a CD of the images and the report the next day.  Since I'll be there late in the afternoon today I might not be able to pick things up until Wed morning.  I'm going to ask, though.

I'm not good at seeing anything on the images, but I can at least read the report.  Feeling a little anxious, but mainly because I HATE small tight spaces....hahaha

I'll let you know how it goes.

Take care,
doni

[rendean]

Thank you for the welcome! I just googled Oxford as I had no idea where it was. I actually live south of the city in Fayetteville. According to Google , we are exactly 2 hours away from each other. Howdy neighbor!

Good luck with your MRIs today! I believe I had one thoracic MRI in the distant past but I am not sure. The only lesions on my recent MRI in Dec. were brain and a thoracic MRI was not done, but I did not have that symptom...correction, I didn't connect that symptom to possible MS and did not mention it to the doc. I thought it was my supposed Sjogren's syndrome. Now, I'm not so sure. My local neuro is sending me to a new neuro at Emory next week as my symptoms are progressing and we do not have a definite diagnosis but need to slow/stop the symptoms.

Let me now how the MRI goes today. How long do you have to wait for your result? My MS specialist reads them instanteoulsy so there's no nervous lag time.


Later,
rendean

[doni54]

Hi Rendean, and welcome to the forum.  We're almost neighbors!!  I live in Oxford, AL not far from you over there in Atlanta!!

I'm undx and can't answer your question as I don't know for sure where a lesion would have to be to cause the MS hug.

I'm going today for a repeat brain MRI and my first c spine MRI, so don't know yet if or where I might have lesions.  I do have problems with the MS hug symptom, most times in my right side.  It is painful and very uncomfortable.

Are you scheduled for an MRI of the t spine yet?  I was hoping my neuro would do the t spine today with the others, but for some reason he didn't schedule it.  Guess I'll have to wait.

I'm glad you are here on the forum with us and know you will like it here.  The people are just the best!!

Take care, I look forward to getting to know you better.

doni