Aa
MS in 13 year old? MRI Results
My 13 year old daughter has been having symptoms since last September 2011 to the present which include:
headaches, episodes of blindness in both eyes where she cannot see at all ranging from 5 seconds to 5 minutes, neck pain, numbness in her hands / arms / legs / feet, difficulty walking, tightness in the chest, difficulty swallowing, difficulty breathing, eye pain, sharp shock like pains in her chest, heartburn, stomachaches, dizziness, lightheadedness with diaphoresis (sweating), nausea, headaches with and without vomitting, and in the last two months urinary accidents which surprise her.
CT scan of the brain was negative.
Imitrex at 50 mg and 100 mg have been tried and are given regularly to see if it were migraine headaches and relief is limited in its effective as pain relief lasts less than an hour and symptoms can be back raging on a 1 - 10 scale at 6 to 8 out of 10 rapidly after that hour.
Motrin and Tylenol only take the edge off her pain.
Abilify and Intuniv for the Bipolar and ADHD.
All of her symptoms are pretty much daily, and the blindness happens nearly everytime she gets up out of bed, sometimes in the middle of the night. She also has the blindness sometimes in one eye, sometimes in the periphery of her vision like tunnel vision.
She already has Bipolar, ADHD, Strabismus (corrected at 3 years old). Her psychiatrist suggested we rule out Migraines versus Multiple Sclerosis based on her symptoms. We have had a very difficult time finding a physician in So. Cal who will see her because of Medi-Cal. She has been on the waiting list for neuro at LLU for six months and they tell us she is routine and will have to wait at least 6 more months before she will even get a neuro appointment to be evaluated.The neuro in OC with no waiting list doesn't take her insurance.
MRI testing was done on the Siemens Sonata 1.5 Tesla Scanner.
MRI of the C-spine showed straigtening of the cervical spine states "
Mild straightening of the cervical spine which may relate to positioning or muscle spasm".
MRI of the brain with and without contrast showed "There is minimal increased signal seen in FLAIR image adjacent to the occipital horns, and in periaqueductal region. This is not diagnostic of multiple sclerosis. The diagnosis of multiple sclerosis will remain on clinical grounds. "
Is this multiple sclerosis? Or, is this complicated migraine?
I have seen her stop mid walk because all of a sudden she just can't see. I have seen her walk with this funny walk because she can't get her legs to move right. I have seen her try and eat or walk when her whole right arm and leg are numb, and not from funny positions either. But, of course, in the doctor's office the doctor can't see this.
Any insight from doctors out there would be great. Any suggestions on where to go from here and diagnosis? This kid is miserable.
Thanks,
richardsonstudios
headaches, episodes of blindness in both eyes where she cannot see at all ranging from 5 seconds to 5 minutes, neck pain, numbness in her hands / arms / legs / feet, difficulty walking, tightness in the chest, difficulty swallowing, difficulty breathing, eye pain, sharp shock like pains in her chest, heartburn, stomachaches, dizziness, lightheadedness with diaphoresis (sweating), nausea, headaches with and without vomitting, and in the last two months urinary accidents which surprise her.
CT scan of the brain was negative.
Imitrex at 50 mg and 100 mg have been tried and are given regularly to see if it were migraine headaches and relief is limited in its effective as pain relief lasts less than an hour and symptoms can be back raging on a 1 - 10 scale at 6 to 8 out of 10 rapidly after that hour.
Motrin and Tylenol only take the edge off her pain.
Abilify and Intuniv for the Bipolar and ADHD.
All of her symptoms are pretty much daily, and the blindness happens nearly everytime she gets up out of bed, sometimes in the middle of the night. She also has the blindness sometimes in one eye, sometimes in the periphery of her vision like tunnel vision.
She already has Bipolar, ADHD, Strabismus (corrected at 3 years old). Her psychiatrist suggested we rule out Migraines versus Multiple Sclerosis based on her symptoms. We have had a very difficult time finding a physician in So. Cal who will see her because of Medi-Cal. She has been on the waiting list for neuro at LLU for six months and they tell us she is routine and will have to wait at least 6 more months before she will even get a neuro appointment to be evaluated.The neuro in OC with no waiting list doesn't take her insurance.
MRI testing was done on the Siemens Sonata 1.5 Tesla Scanner.
MRI of the C-spine showed straigtening of the cervical spine states "
Mild straightening of the cervical spine which may relate to positioning or muscle spasm".
MRI of the brain with and without contrast showed "There is minimal increased signal seen in FLAIR image adjacent to the occipital horns, and in periaqueductal region. This is not diagnostic of multiple sclerosis. The diagnosis of multiple sclerosis will remain on clinical grounds. "
Is this multiple sclerosis? Or, is this complicated migraine?
I have seen her stop mid walk because all of a sudden she just can't see. I have seen her walk with this funny walk because she can't get her legs to move right. I have seen her try and eat or walk when her whole right arm and leg are numb, and not from funny positions either. But, of course, in the doctor's office the doctor can't see this.
Any insight from doctors out there would be great. Any suggestions on where to go from here and diagnosis? This kid is miserable.
Thanks,
richardsonstudios
Hi there,
Welcome to the forum. I'm no doctor - but this does not sound like MS at all to me. I feel it would be in your and your daughter's best interest to get into a specialist hospital like Karen mentions right away.
I understand why you are seeking to know if this sounds like MS since the words were mentioned on imaging - however, MS is a clinical diagnosis, and most all of what you mention does not correlate to MS. i.e., standing up and having vision problems, nausea, migraines, etc.
What's happening to her vision is urgent. Supermum gives an excellent example of how this can be something else.
Thank you for joining us, and please press to get to the bottom of this.... 6 months in unacceptable where vision is concerned, and a good doctor will be very interested in finding a cause. Have a list of all her meds - this too can cause problems you mention.
Welcome to the forum. I'm no doctor - but this does not sound like MS at all to me. I feel it would be in your and your daughter's best interest to get into a specialist hospital like Karen mentions right away.
I understand why you are seeking to know if this sounds like MS since the words were mentioned on imaging - however, MS is a clinical diagnosis, and most all of what you mention does not correlate to MS. i.e., standing up and having vision problems, nausea, migraines, etc.
What's happening to her vision is urgent. Supermum gives an excellent example of how this can be something else.
Thank you for joining us, and please press to get to the bottom of this.... 6 months in unacceptable where vision is concerned, and a good doctor will be very interested in finding a cause. Have a list of all her meds - this too can cause problems you mention.
COMMUNITY LEADER
I'm sorry, but 'abnormalities' could be meaningful or not, some types of abnormalities are still common enough findings and dont necessarily cause the person any problems, a good example would be Chiari Malformation:
Chiari malformations (CMs) are structural defects in the cerebellum, the part of the brain that controls balance. Normally the cerebellum and parts of the brain stem sit in an indented space at the lower rear of the skull, above the foramen magnum (a funnel-like opening to the spinal canal). When part of the cerebellum is located below the foramen magnum, it is called a Chiari malformation.
CMs may develop when the bony space is smaller than normal, causing the cerebellum and brain stem to be pushed downward into the foramen magnum and into the upper spinal canal. The resulting pressure on the cerebellum and brain stem may affect functions controlled by these areas and block the flow of cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) — the clear liquid that surrounds and cushions the brain and spinal cord — to and from the brain.
What causes these malformations?
CM has several different causes. It can be caused by structural defects in the brain and spinal cord that occur during fetal development, whether caused by genetic mutations or lack of proper vitamins or nutrients in the maternal diet.
What are the symptoms of a Chiari malformation?
Individuals with CM may complain of neck pain, balance problems, muscle weakness, numbness or other abnormal feelings in the arms or legs, dizziness, vision problems, difficulty swallowing, ringing or buzzing in the ears, hearing loss, vomiting, insomnia, depression, or headache made worse by coughing or straining. Hand coordination and fine motor skills may be affected. Symptoms may change for some individuals, depending on the buildup of CSF and resulting pressure on the tissues and nerves. Persons with a Type 1 CM may not have symptoms......
SEE - http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/chiari/detail_chiari.htm
Personally, i believe that no one but your dr should be or could explain exactly what her MRI means, though i think you'd have to assume that there isn't anything really serious eg tumor, cancer etc. I dont know what medications she's taking for her mental health but many of them eg SSRI's affect the CNS (central nervous system) and its just one possible causation to consider.
In MS the sx are static, once a sx arrives they dont migrate or move around from side to side. Think of it this way, if the wiring in your lamp is faulty, your tv still works, other lamps, etc everytime you turn that faulty lamp on it still won't do what you expect it too. lol hope that made sense!
Sorry I still dont feel like i'm being of much help, i really wish I had something concrete to tell you, but i simply dont have anything, again sorry.
HUGS............JJ
Chiari malformations (CMs) are structural defects in the cerebellum, the part of the brain that controls balance. Normally the cerebellum and parts of the brain stem sit in an indented space at the lower rear of the skull, above the foramen magnum (a funnel-like opening to the spinal canal). When part of the cerebellum is located below the foramen magnum, it is called a Chiari malformation.
CMs may develop when the bony space is smaller than normal, causing the cerebellum and brain stem to be pushed downward into the foramen magnum and into the upper spinal canal. The resulting pressure on the cerebellum and brain stem may affect functions controlled by these areas and block the flow of cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) — the clear liquid that surrounds and cushions the brain and spinal cord — to and from the brain.
What causes these malformations?
CM has several different causes. It can be caused by structural defects in the brain and spinal cord that occur during fetal development, whether caused by genetic mutations or lack of proper vitamins or nutrients in the maternal diet.
What are the symptoms of a Chiari malformation?
Individuals with CM may complain of neck pain, balance problems, muscle weakness, numbness or other abnormal feelings in the arms or legs, dizziness, vision problems, difficulty swallowing, ringing or buzzing in the ears, hearing loss, vomiting, insomnia, depression, or headache made worse by coughing or straining. Hand coordination and fine motor skills may be affected. Symptoms may change for some individuals, depending on the buildup of CSF and resulting pressure on the tissues and nerves. Persons with a Type 1 CM may not have symptoms......
SEE - http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/chiari/detail_chiari.htm
Personally, i believe that no one but your dr should be or could explain exactly what her MRI means, though i think you'd have to assume that there isn't anything really serious eg tumor, cancer etc. I dont know what medications she's taking for her mental health but many of them eg SSRI's affect the CNS (central nervous system) and its just one possible causation to consider.
In MS the sx are static, once a sx arrives they dont migrate or move around from side to side. Think of it this way, if the wiring in your lamp is faulty, your tv still works, other lamps, etc everytime you turn that faulty lamp on it still won't do what you expect it too. lol hope that made sense!
Sorry I still dont feel like i'm being of much help, i really wish I had something concrete to tell you, but i simply dont have anything, again sorry.
HUGS............JJ
Hello. I believe that Children's Hospital in Los Angeles (next to Hollywood) will see any child despite type of insurance. Does she have a PPO/HMO type MediCal? Have you tried contacting them yet?
Is LLU Loma Linda?
Is LLU Loma Linda?
With her psychiatric history, I would not rule out a psychiatric cause, except she did have some abnormalities on MRI whatever that might be. We already tried decreasing meds and that did not affect the physical symptoms at all. Both sides are affected, yes, but it is usually one side or the other not both at the same time. Plus, Motrin, Imitrex barely take the edge off her headache pain.
Any idea what the MRI results mean?
Any idea what the MRI results mean?
COMMUNITY LEADER
Hi and welcome to our little corner of the web, please have a look at our health pages, they maybe of some help to you.
To be honest with you i'm not really sure what to say, MS in children can be quite difficult to dx, and i wouldn't want to even guess on this one, though i will say that usually numbness for example will present as an odd spot, or section of decreased feelings on a limb. So if there is peripheral numbness its not usually an entire body part and its also unusual for both sides of the body to be affected, until much later in the disease process. Usually it affects one side only, so for example a person with MS will experience numbness, say in their left thumb and part of their left hand, and the right side is normal.
Sorry but the only thing i can come up with is to take her to a childrens hospital or a peadiatrician. The other thing is to check if the drugs she's on could in anyway be causing some or all of this, children often can react differently. My youngest was put on tofranil for anxiety, he started having panic attacks daily, sweating, heart bouncing out of his chest, disoriented, dizzy etc and his fight or flight was activated.
At the time the dr's explained it away as being part of his mental health condition, we had no reason to think otherwise but we did accidently ended up discovering that these panic attacks stopped completely, once he went off the drug, funny but he was less anxious off the drug too. There was a few other long term issues that also resolved once he went off the drug, so in the end the drug he was on for anxiety actually caused a hole host of other issues and also made his anxiety worse.
I'm not saying your daughter is in a similar situation, just that with children unexpected reactions can happen and its well worth finding out, if it is at all possible.
Sorry I couldn't be more helpful!
HUGS...............JJ
To be honest with you i'm not really sure what to say, MS in children can be quite difficult to dx, and i wouldn't want to even guess on this one, though i will say that usually numbness for example will present as an odd spot, or section of decreased feelings on a limb. So if there is peripheral numbness its not usually an entire body part and its also unusual for both sides of the body to be affected, until much later in the disease process. Usually it affects one side only, so for example a person with MS will experience numbness, say in their left thumb and part of their left hand, and the right side is normal.
Sorry but the only thing i can come up with is to take her to a childrens hospital or a peadiatrician. The other thing is to check if the drugs she's on could in anyway be causing some or all of this, children often can react differently. My youngest was put on tofranil for anxiety, he started having panic attacks daily, sweating, heart bouncing out of his chest, disoriented, dizzy etc and his fight or flight was activated.
At the time the dr's explained it away as being part of his mental health condition, we had no reason to think otherwise but we did accidently ended up discovering that these panic attacks stopped completely, once he went off the drug, funny but he was less anxious off the drug too. There was a few other long term issues that also resolved once he went off the drug, so in the end the drug he was on for anxiety actually caused a hole host of other issues and also made his anxiety worse.
I'm not saying your daughter is in a similar situation, just that with children unexpected reactions can happen and its well worth finding out, if it is at all possible.
Sorry I couldn't be more helpful!
HUGS...............JJ
Have an Answer?
You are reading content posted in the Multiple Sclerosis Community
Top Neurology Answerers
Australia
ON
Queensland, Australia
Queen Creek, AZ
Find out how beta-blocker eye drops show promising results for acute migraine relief.
In this special Missouri Medicine report, doctors examine advances in diagnosis and treatment of this devastating and costly neurodegenerative disease.
Here are 12 simple – and fun! – ways to boost your brainpower.
Discover some of the causes of dizziness and how to treat it.
Discover the common causes of headaches and how to treat headache pain.
Two of the largest studies on Alzheimer’s have yielded new clues about the disease
