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MS symptoms without the MS? I can't walk or drive in this shape

I'm hoping this community will point me in the right direction and/or give me an idea on what may be going on with me.  

I'm a 35 year old female.  For over ten years, I've been nauseous and dizzy.  But I didn't think too much of it.  I just thought I was a sensitive person that got motion sickness easily.  A few years ago, a doctor referred me to a urologist.  I was getting 4-6 UTIs a year and there was always traces of blood in my urine samples (even when I didn't have an infection).  But I hadn't had a UTI in a over a year now, and they never did find the cause.  I still have trace amounts of blood in my urine, but since it's not causing me pain, I stopped trying to find an answer for it.

Fast forward to a couple of months ago.  I'm enrolled in barbering school and I also do commission art pieces to make a little extra money. My hands started becoming very sore and achy.  My back was always in pain, as well. My pinkies started curving some years back, so I thought for sure it was arthritis.  Doctor saw my hands, took xrays, had me do a blood lab, and prescribed me a 6 day steroid pack to see if it would help.  I took the medication as it was prescribed, and I found that it helped a lot with daily aches and pains.  

Four days after I stopped taking the medicine, my arms became weak.  It took two arms to lift a full pop can up.  A week after, my right hand started shaking.  I went to the doctor, and at this point he scheduled me for an MRI and more blood tests.  A week after my doctor visit, both my legs started becoming weak, as well.  Soon I was feeling tingling, half asleep sensation in all my limbs, and I was twitching all over the place.

This started April 15th.  It's June 11th now.  The tingling and weak sensation in my limbs seems to be going away.  I still need to use a cane because my legs sometimes like to give out, but they're not shaking as much. Hopefully, I'll be able to drive soon.  But now I'm finding it hard to go to the bathroom.  It's like my muscles are completely gone in that area and I have to physically try to squeeze that area to make sure everything comes out.  

I had blood tests to rule out B12, Lyme Disease, magnesium, copper toxicity, arthritis, lupus...too many to list.   Besides being slightly anemic, it was all normal.  I had a lumbar puncture done last week, and that too, came normal.  Also I had an MRI done without contrast, once again, normal.

I've completely confused four doctors, all of which thought it was MS. So I'm hoping that maybe someone had something similar go on and any ideas on what this could be?  I have an EMG scheduled for next week, so hopefully it'll yield more clues.  Also, if I do find out what's going on, I'll be sure to post it.  Just in case someone ever goes through something similar and the need direction ;)  

Any advice and information would be most helpful.  Thanks in advance :)
20 Responses
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1831849 tn?1383228392
Hi LP -

I'm sorry that your traveling through a rough patch. SOme of the symptoms you describe are often associated with MS; urinary hesitancy and limb weakness among them. But MS is not likely responsible for all you describe. It sounds to widespread.

If your hands responded to the oral steroids, it means the discomfort was caused by inflamation. That the inflammation responded to the dose typically given orally means th inflammation was not likely caused by MS. MS relapses are treated with massive doses of steroids, 10 times the 'normal' dose. ANd they are generally administered via IV infusion.

For MRI to find MS lesions, they need to be conducted with a specific protocol which inccludes images taken before and after a contrast agent is administered. DO you know if your MRI's were done using the MS protocol?

Kyle
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Avatar universal
Thanks for responding kwarendorf

The MRI was ordered without a contrast agent.  I was not injected with anything during the procedure, if that's what you mean.

And I don't know if this helps or not, but my reflexes are abnormal. The neurologist said I had hyperreflexia. But I don't know if he meant everywhere or just the knees.  I do know that when my knees were checked I felt like my legs were going to fly off.  
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Avatar universal
Hi, lil.

I agree with  Kyle that this doesn't sound like MS. Too widespread and too symmetrical. It's somewhat possible for MS to cause symptoms in, say, both legs, but to have symptoms in both legs, both hands, both pinkies, both arms, etc., at the same time, even if not all of this at once, but both 'wherever' at once is almost vanishingly rare. You'd have to have lesions of the same type on both sides of your central nervous system acting up at the same time for this to happen, and you'd have a better chance of hitting the lottery. Your MRIs don't show any lesions. Did your doctors still think it's MS after the MRIs?

Twitching all over also doesn't happen with MS. I'm no doctor, but still I'd think of something systemic with the problems you describe. Lyme disease testing (Western Blot or Elisa) often returns false negative results, and there's a test done by igenex that's more accurate. You might check MedHelp's Lyme forum for more info. Other than that, I'm not coming up with alternative suggestions.

ess
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Thanks for responding essdipity

My primary doctor was the one that ordered the MRI and at the time he didn't think it was MS.  But after my legs started because weak, and tingling and would give out, he referred me to a neurologist.  At that point he thought I had MS. My neurologist was actually surprised nothing showed on the MRI because he said MS was high on his list of possible causes.  That's why the lumbar puncture was ordered.  I've had a few friends confused also because they saw the videos I posted of my hands and legs twitching and shaking and they said they said the same thing happens to them.

But I never thought to ask if it affected both their arms and legs, or not.  So I suppose I should specifically mention that to my neurologist the next time I see him.  Especially if MS causes only one leg or one arm to be affected at a time.  

And I will definitely bring up Lyme Disease, as well.  Thank you so much for the information and advice!  I feel like a have a bit of direction now :)

Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Well, it's not that MS can't cause symptoms on both sides at once, but to have had symptoms on both sides at once in multiple areas of the body--arms, hands, pinkies, legs--really is not like MS. It's possible, though unlikely, to have the same thing happen at the same time on both sides in one area of the body, but it defies all odds for this to have happened, at various times, in multiple areas. So legs, maybe, or arms maybe, but not all of these having had symmetrical symptoms.
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Avatar universal
Essdipity- oops I suppose I phrased that badly.  I have things going on all over, now. In the beginning it was my arms.  Although, my left arm was way worse in weakness, my right hand was the one that was twitching.  But nowm it's one day my right hand twitching and my left leg is the one that is giving out.  The next day it can be my right leg and my left leg that both feel tingly and start giving out.  And then it can just be my left arm that feels weak.  Sometimes, I just feel like something is in my left upper canine tooth (even though I've seen the dentist a few times and nothing is there).  But usually it's not at the same time and with the same level of tinglingness or pain if that makes sense.  But yes, it does travel all over and is not confined to one area or side.

Does that make sense?  And there was actually one day where I didn't feel any weakness or tingling...but just felt like a few areas of my skin were burnt.  I kept looking at the skin to make sure I didn't accidentally burn myself.   But that was only one day.  Haven't experienced it since.
Helpful - 0
987762 tn?1671273328
COMMUNITY LEADER
Hi and a welcome from me too,

From every thing that i know and understand about MS, what you have described really doesn't sound right for MS to be at all likely. MS isn't something that changes as you've described, from one day to the next and MS caused sensory symptoms like tingling, numbness or pain do not travel all over the body as you've said your is.

Generally when it's a neurological condition causing symptoms eg weakness, there would be some neurologically abnormal clinical signs and other suggestive/consistent tests evidence eg MRI's, LP, EVP etc and with out anything being neurologically abnormal it means a neurological causation is less likely.  

I honestly don't think a neurological condition like MS, could be what you are dealing with and off the top of my head apart from mental health issues and what your already been tested and clear of, i'm out of ideas sorry!

Cheers...........JJ  

Helpful - 0
11924850 tn?1601364171
Hello.

  This is something that more experienced nurses know:  After a lumbar puncture caffeine will help alleviate that nasty headache.  I drank lots of ice coffee and that saved me.  Just thought that needed saying.

  I have many health conditions including MS.  I'm in lots of pain.  Sometimes my symptoms are symmetrical.  I think it depends on an individual's system.  Bottom line for me is that I know what I'm feeling.  I don't care whether it's "supposed" to be or not.  It's what is.

  Also, MS has a will of its own.  It'll do what it darn well pleases apparently.

Have you been recently tested for diabetes?

Are you taking much medication?  I am.  They can combine into a mixture of side effects/ symptoms that many doctors overlook or don't even consider.

  I don't think blood in the urine is something to be blown off.  At the very least vaginal dryness can be a culprit.

  Thanks for listening.  I hope things go better for you.

Blessings,

  Melinda

  
  
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
At this point, I don't think it's MS, but according to the doctors, friends I've talked to with MS, and the list of symptoms, it's the closest thing to what's been going on. But I didn't even know much about MS until all these things started happening and MS was mentioned a few times by the doctors and then I started researching it.  

I also thought it was all in my head, but my neurologist told me that since my reflexes are so off, that there is definitely something going on.  So I guess my brain wouldn't be making up reflexes, so unfortunately mental health is out, also.  And yes, I was kind of hoping it was along those lines, because it's something that can be fixed by a few pills.  I'm still hoping for an easy fix or for it to go away, but it's looking like it wants to stick around and now it's messing with bladder and bowels...which really *****.  

My EVP and EMG are in a couple weeks, so I'm hopeful that it'll give me a clue to what is going on.  And I'll definitely share the results, whatever they may be.

Thanks again for all your info and advice! :)
Helpful - 0
5112396 tn?1378017983
As someone who struggles more with mental health issues than with my MS, the phrase "I was kind of hoping it was along those lines, because it's something that can be fixed by a few pills." is ill-informed. Both are life-long struggles, one just has more acceptance from society.

I work hard every day to keep my mental health robust, through CBT, medication, therapy, exercise, hobbies, mindfulness meditation. MS? I inject myself once a month then mostly forget about it. There's no single truism the holds for most medical conditions, but I feel confident that a sweeping statements like 'fixed by a few pills' is inaccurate for the vast majority whose medical conditions involve mental health.
Helpful - 0
338416 tn?1420045702
>  That the inflammation responded to the dose typically given orally means th inflammation was not likely caused by MS.

Well, I have to disagree with this vehemently. I went to the doctor because my chin was tingling. She gave me a week's worth of steroids. That same day I was overcome with extreme dizziness and cognitive problems. I filled my scrip and started taking them, and immediately felt better. After my steroids ran out, the symptoms came back! So I went back to the doctor and got more oral steroids, which got me through a month of feeling very loopy.
Helpful - 0
338416 tn?1420045702
Personally I think we're way too focused on symptoms being symmetrical as ruling out MS. I had leg weakness in both, arm weakness in both, pinprick pains in my right hand, numbness on both sides of my face, difficulty seeing out of both eyes, etc...

Right before I went to the doctor because of the tingling, I went to the dentist because I was having tooth pain. Nothing wrong with my teeth, although I needed a deep cleaning.

So the answer is no easy answers! Get that lumbar puncture done, and see if the doc can give you something to alleviate the symptoms even if they don't know what's giong on.
Helpful - 0
987762 tn?1671273328
COMMUNITY LEADER
I usually make a point of explaining in more detail but it was a hectic day and i had only a few moments so i didn't get time to explain things more clearly, sorry!

Generally people focus on their 'symptoms' being the same as the symptoms of MS and it's typically a person's symptoms that brings people to search the net for confirmation or reassurances but there are many other medical conditions that also cause similar and or the same symptom's....

The typical issue with only looking at the symptom list alone, is that 'symptoms' are only one part of their story, and it's more informative from my perspective to keep in mind each individuals disclosed details and looking at their big picture eg the commonality of MS associated symptoms experienced, unrelated medical issues, the individuals actual clinical and or abnormal neurological test evidence, symptom presentation, common vs uncommon pattern, speed of symptom development, mental health, neurological red flags etc etc etc    

In this particular situation from my understanding, a neurological condition like MS would 'not' be the most likely explanation for the symptoms mentioned, if you take into account everything disclosed in relation to MS commonality.

a) the symptoms are changing too quickly and are moving from one location on the body to another 'each day' which isn't the symptom pattern commonly suggestive or consistent when the symptoms are caused by MS.

"my left arm was way worse in weakness, my right hand was the one that was twitching.  But nowm it's one day my right hand twitching and my left leg is the one that is giving out.  The next day it can be my right leg and my left leg that both feel tingly and start giving out.  And then it can just be my left arm that feels weak."

b) Started only a few month ago....."This started April 15th.  It's June 11th now"
c)The symptoms have rapidly developed or multiplied over a short time period, and it is very widespread when experienced 'all over' the body, which isn't a typical symptom develop pattern suggestive or consistent with MS......."A week after my doctor visit, both my legs started becoming weak, as well.  Soon I was feeling tingling, half asleep sensation in all my limbs, and I was twitching all over the place." "travel all over and is not confined to one area or side."

d) Neurological disorders typically cause objective measurable clinical evidence of muscle weakness but wide spread rapidly developed upper and lower limb weakness, with or out clinical evidence is more commonly associated with other medical causes eg viral, chronic infections, disuse, fatigue, endocrine disorders, renal failure, hepatic failure, heart failure, anemia, vit B etc

When you add in someone who is additionally experiencing all over sensory symptoms and muscle twitching, a long history of dizziness and nausea (motion sickness?) and their prior unexplained chronic unary track infections and current trace amounts of blood in urine.......    

e) Typically an MS red flag if they are also lacking any of the MS suggestive or consistent objective test evidence, so with having found no brain and or spinal cord lesions with the normal MRI's and the LP whilst also being normal, it would generally point away from conditions like MS and towards alternative causations.

f) Corroborating neurologically abnormal 'clinical signs' would be a bigger indication of a neurological issue going on, the only thing clinically mentioned though is hyperreflexia.......    

"my reflexes are abnormal. The neurologist said I had hyperreflexia. But I don't know if he meant everywhere or just the knees.  I do know that when my knees were checked I felt like my legs were going to fly off. "

.....but MS isn't at the top of the list of causes because the most common cause of hyperreflexia is actually structural spinal issues, and as far as i'm aware, if it's systemic which might be the case, it would be more commonly caused by conditions like hyperthyroidism, hypocalcemia, anemia etc    

Whether the symptoms were symmetrical or not, wasn't something that i even looked at with there already being so many inconsistencies. It isn't common for MS to be in 'all' peripherals though it can happen but this started a few months ago in the arms and a few weeks later it's progressed to both lower limbs (arms and legs weak, both legs giving out, cane to walk etc), it's just one more thing from my understanding that is also not typical of MS.

In my humble opinion when there is an absence of objective diagnostic lesion evidence,  a normal LP, potentially systemic hyperrflexia, symptoms development rapidly, daily changing pattern, all peripherals, widespread sensory etc etc usually MS wouldn't be a likely explanation for what could be causing it.  

Hope that helps explain things better and possibly generate a little food for thought....

Cheers.........JJ
  
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Avatar universal
As someone that has suffered from severe depression and anxiety, my life was actually changed by a few pills, I found this to be true for me. I went from not being able to leave my house for years, to driving every day... which was huge.  I apologize if I seemed flippant about it. I didn't put into consideration that others might now have been as easily fixed as I was.
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Avatar universal
hc1
It doesn't address all your issues, but the frequent UTI's and blood in the urine sounds like Medullary Sponge Kidney.  I have that and those are the symptoms that led to that diagnosis.   How was your potassium and your blood pressure?
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Avatar universal
hc1
... did you have your Vitamin D tested or an ANA run?  
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Avatar universal
I had the EMG done and had a visit with my neurologist.  Turns out, that it was a mild attack of MS.  So I was wrong about assuming it wasn't.  He just wanted to tell me in person.  I have an appointment in four months, and if/when I have another flare up, I need to go through all these tests, again.  

Thank you for all your advice, info, and comments :)
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5112396 tn?1378017983
I'm a little confused. If you have MS, why would you need to go through the tests again? By "mild attack of MS" did they mean CIS, an isolated episode? I certainly hope they didn't use the term "mild attack of MS" without giving you an official diagnosis!
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Avatar universal
I concur with Immisceo. I'm perplexed as to the notion for repeated testing. Did the neurologist provide further explanation as to why?
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Avatar universal
I'm wondering if they have checked you for parkinson's disease
and I agree with the others, IF this was an MS incident, it would be a CIS and most neuro's want more than one CIS to dx.  

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