New here - question about MRI results

[GrannyKay]

Hi everyone. :-) I was referred to a neurologist due to vertigo and recurrent uveitis. After hearing my answers to her questions, she said it could be MS. She did a visual evoked response test on me, which apparently came back normal. I had an MRI done today, and it showed that my ventricles are "larger than normal", so they are going to schedule me for a lumbar puncture, which I am dreading. :(
Does anyone know if enlarged ventricles are a sign of MS?

I'm so happy to have found this place. thank you in advance for any help you can offer. :)

[GrannyKay]

Thank you so very much!!

[rendean]

Hi and welcome,

I did NOT search the scientific articles on PUbMED or elesewhwere but did search our ol archives concerning enlarged ventricles.

I found a post by Quix.  quix, a retired ppediatrician, researched and wrote many of our Health Pages. One of her responses whle she was still active mentioned enlarged ventricles but the post is from 2010. Below is the lik to thepost. quix beleived there was a "soft conection between enlarged ventricles (Virchow-Robin spaces) and MS."

Here is the link:

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Multiple-Sclerosis/MRI-Report/show/1204189

I will try to find something more recent in the literature.

Ren

[GrannyKay]

Wow you all are awesome thank you SO much for your responses! First I want to say that I am 46 ... and the grandmother of 11!! LOL Only 3 of them are mine, however. My husband and I are in a second marriage, and he has 8 grandchildren...but he is only 52! :-) We are very blessed.

I have been having issues for quite some time with chronic pain that comes and goes and there's never any apparent reason for it. The pain is in my muscles, sometimes in my joints. I have had major gastrointestinal issues, inflammation and IBD type stuff, and severe diverticulosis. I started following a gluten free diet and it has helped with a lot of the gastro issues.

The uveitis I mentioned started last May.  I see the eye doctor, she prescribes steroid drops and antibiotic drops, I use them, it clears up and usually comes back within about 6 weeks. There have been many times when I have chosen to leave it alone and not treat it and it has gone away on its own, but this last bout has been a bit more stubborn.

The vertigo started in December. If I so much as moved my head the room would start spinning. That lasted for a few hours and went away, but I continued having short spells that have gradually gotten better, but I still have them.  Some days are worse than others, but instead of lasting hours, it lasts for a few seconds. I have had vertigo once before in my life, a few years ago. It lasted all day and I was very sick - but once it was over it was over. I thought it was some sort of flu.

The other thing I've noticed recently (the past few months) is my memory is horrible and I have a very hard time concentrating on anything.

My GP has done a lot of blood work. She did find that I was vitamin D deficient, so I've been supplementing for that and that has improved. My sed rate was 39,(normal is up to 20)  but last time they checked that (in November) it was down to 20. I know she tested for lupus and lyme disease, and those came back normal. My eye doctor also ran some tests including a TB test and they all came back normal, except for the sed rate which was still slightly elevated.

Years ago I had debilitating migraines, but haven't had one in a very long time. I also have times when I will just start feeling weak and like I've got the flu or something, but with no other symptoms. Thats all I can think of at the moment.

Thank you all again. I can see I've joined a great bunch of caring people here. Just "talking" to somebody about it helps so much while I'm stuck in this waiting game. I know you all can relate. Thank you again.

[sllowe]

Hi GrannyK,

Welcome to the forum. You have been given solid information. There is a lot of misinformation on the web like mentioned, but here on our forum we pride ourselves in facts. We try to correct them when we catch them, and if we have the knowledge to do so.
Truth is, like Kyle and Drraj mention MS is a clinical diagnosis, and MRIs do not tell the whole tale.

If you read the health pages, and look into those common areas of the brain you will not see enlarged ventricles. However, not all MS is typical. The diagnosis criteria could not cover all of those variables for sure because we all differ a bit. Thankfully though there are enough similarities to at least establish what is typical vs. not.

So, where does that leave you? Directly in the hands of your neuro. What you mention that has been ordered so far is right in line with what many of us have had tested. I passed many of my tests, including the EVPs. So, you'll see not all of us follow this neat little pattern of check marks of must haves.

I will try to see if I can find those instances of enlarged ventricles as it relates to MS for you in the literature. See if I can come up with something for you. I have to say, it's an excellent question! One that I urge you to ask your doc about too! I'd love to hear the response. We get a lot of info from our MSers through their docs here. It can be helpful to so many who come along w/the same question.

Hang tight and thank you for trusting us to thoughts. And, I wish you well with your LP.
-Shell

[Datrix]

sorry I hit enter by accident lol.

I just wanted to finish by saying that a specialist is trained to read the MRI CD and has much more knowledge about the disease. just from experience, I went through 6 neurologists and 3 ms specialists, and those 6 neuros didn't believe that I had multiple sclerosis but each specialist knew that I did, even with each mri report stating i have ms, which was read and written by the radiologists. talk about crazy, eh?


anyway, best of luck to you and I hope to hear back! :)

[Datrix]

Hi Grannykay!

There seems to be a lot of misinformation here, as elsewhere on the web, and it's sad and frustrating because you don't know what to believe or who to believe. I always recommend everyone to go to the National MS Society website first, because that is the most accurate place on the web, guaranteed. Then again, the health pages are very good here, but they could use some updating, in my opinion.

Anyway, enlarged ventricles are most definitely a sign of multiple sclerosis, but it's also a sign of many other things as well. I don't know if I can link you to other websites because this is my first post on my new screen name and I don't want to get banned, but if you go to Google, and type in "National MS Society" and "enlarged ventricles", you'll find much to read on the matter. Try to think positive, though, because like I said, there are other problems it could be other than multiple sclerosis, including nothing at all to worry about, believe it or not. Odd, I know, but true.

Regarding the lumbar puncture, don't sweat it. I guess I was one of the lucky ones. No sting, pinch, burn, hitting of nerves, or any kind of pain, and I didn't even feel her numb me up, and I found that to be quite strange. But anyway, definitely drink plenty of caffeinated drinks before the procedure and even after, as I heard that it helps to prevent us from getting a spinal headache, which I think is from the loss of fluid (can't be quite sure on the reason of that one). Also, they'll probably tell you to lay flat on your back for 8 hours and you definitely want to do just that. I did everything that I was told to do but I did get the spinal headache and I was bent over for 5 days because I had a lot of lower back pain.

Even so, I still consider myself one of the lucky ones because I didn't feel the needle in any way and that sucker is pretty large! I was stupid enough to look it up on YouTube before getting the procedure done. That's not a hint, don't do it, lol! If you have older children, a spouse, any family that can stay for the first 24 hours, I think that would really be of help. Breakfast, lunch, and dinner in bed, basically being spoiled during those hours, so you can stay off your feet and rest that back isnt a bad idea either.

Also, I know quite a few people on MedHelp and in my old support group that have been getting diagnosed in their fifties, and it doesn't seem to surprise me anymore. Then again, being a Grammy doesn't mean you're in your fifties because I'm almost 41 years old and I'm a grandma of 2.5. Heehee. I couldn't resist commenting on that because of what drraj1965 had said. Now, wouldnt it be something that you're not even a Grandma? Or over 50?? LOL! Do let us know when you come back and comment, hoping that you will, of course. :)

Lastly, after the lumbar puncture is done, no matter what the results, I highly recommend that you see an MS Specialist, only because your neurologist is suspecting that you may have MS. They have much more experience than a Neuro and definitely know how toD with all those images on it.

[kwarendorf]

Hi GK - Welcome to our little world.

MS is largely a clinical diagnosis. The diagnosis is supported by MRI, LP, VEP and other tests. What they look for in your history os at least 2 neurological episodes that are at least a month apart. They do not have to last for a month.

Depending on your history 50 + is not too late for an MS diagnosis. I was 51 :-)

Kyle

[drraj1965]

"Enlarged ventricles" on MRI refers to Enlarged Lateral Ventricles in the brain - and that's not "a sign of MS" - its a non-specific finding in many situations, and could even be age-related.
Diagnosis of MS requires clinical, imaging, CSF, and or other lab criteria; I don't know about your clinical history, since you haven't given any details, but if you have had at least two documented events of neurological disorders lasting a month each time, then a diagnosis of Probable MS can be made.
From your account, I believe your doctor is working on the hypothesis of Possible MS, but the MRI and VEP have not supported the diagnosis so far. CSF Oligoclonal bands could be positive despite this and clinch a diagnosis, but this is a little unlikely.
Another comment I wanted to make here: you haven't mentioned your age, but from the name "GrannyKay", may I assume you are over 50 years? In that case, its slightly late to be starting MS.

[SarahL2491]

what part of your body did you have done with the MRI.  You have the results the same day?  impressive!  

lumbar puncture, stop worrying, its not as bad as people think.  Hydrate yourself before and after with caffeine drinks.  I had mine, it was done and over in less than 15 minutes and I felt nothing but a slight sting as the lidocane went in and the bandage and pressure afterwards.  Am sure others will disagree but I put it off for years because I was so afraid.

now, even if no "O" bands show on your LP, it still does not rule out MS.  
Is your neurologist an MS specialist?  

Are you talking about ventricles in your heart or something in your brain?
You would need lesions to show in your brain or spine MRI, which is what MS is all about.  Multiple Sclerosis meaning multiple scars.

You will also need much blood work done to rule out over 30 mimic diseases.  Some are lucky? enough to get an early diagnosis but most of us have endured multiple neurologists and many years of testing to obtain a diagnosis.

Are these your only symptoms and how long have you had them/
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