Aa
Vitamin D3
Anybody taking vit.k2 with vit. D3? I started taking them together and raised my level up to 150. I do labs every 8 because I'm on tysabri My labs are always great.
I've already commented on what I am convinced are safe levels of D, so won't repeat that part.
But I do want to add my voice to those who are offended by being called discriminatory, racist and biased. I am offended too, very much so. The world of hard science gathers together to investigate and report on new knowledge, via the scientific method, which has a standard meaning across all cultures. Their findings are what informs me.
My neuro is a researcher at Johns Hopkins, which is widely regarded as being one of the top research institutions in the US, and in fact, in the entire world. He is not just some clueless doctor out there, which is what was implied by you, gmac353. And I personally am not some dupe of substandard medical thinking.
You should know that this forum does not tolerate attacks on anyone. We have an atmosphere of goodwill and mutual help in dealing with MS. Constructive discussions, even debates, happen here often, and I'm all for that. But efforts to reduce the level of discourse by assigning negative characteristics to those with opposing viewpoints is far from constructive.
Perhaps you are accustomed to posting on online sites that promote going for the jugular, in which case I urge you to post there. When you are here, kindly adhere to the atmosphere we have fostered here.
ess
But I do want to add my voice to those who are offended by being called discriminatory, racist and biased. I am offended too, very much so. The world of hard science gathers together to investigate and report on new knowledge, via the scientific method, which has a standard meaning across all cultures. Their findings are what informs me.
My neuro is a researcher at Johns Hopkins, which is widely regarded as being one of the top research institutions in the US, and in fact, in the entire world. He is not just some clueless doctor out there, which is what was implied by you, gmac353. And I personally am not some dupe of substandard medical thinking.
You should know that this forum does not tolerate attacks on anyone. We have an atmosphere of goodwill and mutual help in dealing with MS. Constructive discussions, even debates, happen here often, and I'm all for that. But efforts to reduce the level of discourse by assigning negative characteristics to those with opposing viewpoints is far from constructive.
Perhaps you are accustomed to posting on online sites that promote going for the jugular, in which case I urge you to post there. When you are here, kindly adhere to the atmosphere we have fostered here.
ess
To get back to the original post, I was wondering if it is Ok to take vitamin K supplement. I can't seem to find the research I read that taking vitamin A and vitamin K supplements is harmful. But I'm suddenly not very sure. I'll look for it later. Would it be better to get you Vit K fill from leafy green veggies?
As for Vitamin D3, I'm pretty convinced it has tremendous benefits, just not yet "proven" or published. In some countries, it is already extremely difficult to get prescribed a daily dose of 10,000 IU of vitamin D. But if that is the amount we produce after being exposed to the sun for about 20 min, how can it possibly be harmful? If your levels are 30, 40ng/ml or bellow, then the patients is at no immediate risks of intoxication.
And there are published studies that prove the immunomodulatory effect of vitamin D. example: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24191393
Also, the fact that doctors in Portugal, Italy, Argentina, Brazil and even the US (California and New jersey I believe) convinces me that the effect of high doses (under medical supervision naturally) should be more accessible to those who wish to follow or try such treatment. Why is it that Low-Dose Naltrexone can be prescribed by a GP even though there are no blind trials or"scientific proofs" of its benefits.
As for Vitamin D3, I'm pretty convinced it has tremendous benefits, just not yet "proven" or published. In some countries, it is already extremely difficult to get prescribed a daily dose of 10,000 IU of vitamin D. But if that is the amount we produce after being exposed to the sun for about 20 min, how can it possibly be harmful? If your levels are 30, 40ng/ml or bellow, then the patients is at no immediate risks of intoxication.
And there are published studies that prove the immunomodulatory effect of vitamin D. example: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24191393
Also, the fact that doctors in Portugal, Italy, Argentina, Brazil and even the US (California and New jersey I believe) convinces me that the effect of high doses (under medical supervision naturally) should be more accessible to those who wish to follow or try such treatment. Why is it that Low-Dose Naltrexone can be prescribed by a GP even though there are no blind trials or"scientific proofs" of its benefits.
COMMUNITY LEADER
You wrote.....
"My post may sound a bit rude, but it's really ticked me off the discrimination posted above… I sincerely wish all the best to everybody here and your families, independently of the treatment you decided to follow… I'm not defending any treatment here, just saying that you should be less lazy and less racist and ignorant before posting. "
I'm sure you honestly believe that but if you look back through your posting history, you may be surprised at how passionately you respond, to anything you perceive as criticism of the MS vit D theory in general and the treatment you have chosen.
Saying......"You guys rather suffer from MS instead of reading the latest researches and finding out all the treatments available." .....Is seriously offensive to me!
It's understandable for you to be bias because your are "a patient following Prof. Coimbra's protocol" but calling people lazy, racist and ignorant is just uncalled for aggression..............please please don't allow your self to become angry and let loose on others' who may have a different opinion than yours!
We are an open minded supportive community...............JJ
"My post may sound a bit rude, but it's really ticked me off the discrimination posted above… I sincerely wish all the best to everybody here and your families, independently of the treatment you decided to follow… I'm not defending any treatment here, just saying that you should be less lazy and less racist and ignorant before posting. "
I'm sure you honestly believe that but if you look back through your posting history, you may be surprised at how passionately you respond, to anything you perceive as criticism of the MS vit D theory in general and the treatment you have chosen.
Saying......"You guys rather suffer from MS instead of reading the latest researches and finding out all the treatments available." .....Is seriously offensive to me!
It's understandable for you to be bias because your are "a patient following Prof. Coimbra's protocol" but calling people lazy, racist and ignorant is just uncalled for aggression..............please please don't allow your self to become angry and let loose on others' who may have a different opinion than yours!
We are an open minded supportive community...............JJ
Welcome to our group.
I think I can safely say that all of us would welcome a safe, cost effective treatment, if not a cure, for our MS regardless of its country of origin :-)
Our skepticism is based on a lack of peer reviewed research for Dr. Coimbra's methods, not that he is Brazilian. As to trusting our neuros, ost of us do. Mine happens to also be a research scientist, overseeing a full sized MS research lab.
We welcome differences of opinion here, but we insist on keeping the discussions civil :-)
Kyle
I think I can safely say that all of us would welcome a safe, cost effective treatment, if not a cure, for our MS regardless of its country of origin :-)
Our skepticism is based on a lack of peer reviewed research for Dr. Coimbra's methods, not that he is Brazilian. As to trusting our neuros, ost of us do. Mine happens to also be a research scientist, overseeing a full sized MS research lab.
We welcome differences of opinion here, but we insist on keeping the discussions civil :-)
Kyle
You guys are discriminating just because he's Brazilian and not American… this is just ridiculous.
You guys rather suffer from MS instead of reading the latest researches and finding out all the treatments available.
Prof. Coimbra is one of the references of Vitamin D3 in the world, together with Dr. Hollick who even was in Brazil for meetings with Prof. Coimbra and the Brazilian government.
1,000 IU, 2,000 IU is a ridiculous dose… if you stay in the sun for 20 min your body produces naturally around 10,000 IU… which obviously is the amount you need otherwise your body just would not produce it.
Studies with Vitamin D3 are "recent" and not part of the medicine literature books for this reason and also because it's not interesting for the Pharma industry, who funds most of the researches and medical schools/books.
If you just play the smart and do your research you'll see the thousands of papers published about the relation of Vitamin D3 and the immune system. If you rather trust in "your neuro" just because he's a neuro… good luck! Unless he's a very studious kind of person he may not be aware of any of this, since it's not broadly discussed in the medical conferences that neuros attend… surprise surprise, it's because they are sponsored by Pharma companies too!
Just for the record, I'm a patient following Prof. Coimbra's protocol for almost 2 years at this point and my MRIs indicate that my MS is in remission state, for over a year now (around 18 months) I haven't experienced any new relapse.
If I was trusting 100% the knowledge of my neuro and my GP I'd be taking the same ridiculous doses that you guys take, plus the expensive and harmful drugs produced by Pharma companies… ah, not to mention that I'd very likely to be seeing my health to deteriorate too.
My post may sound a bit rude, but it's really ticked me off the discrimination posted above… I sincerely wish all the best to everybody here and your families, independently of the treatment you decided to follow… I'm not defending any treatment here, just saying that you should be less lazy and less racist and ignorant before posting.
Peace.
You guys rather suffer from MS instead of reading the latest researches and finding out all the treatments available.
Prof. Coimbra is one of the references of Vitamin D3 in the world, together with Dr. Hollick who even was in Brazil for meetings with Prof. Coimbra and the Brazilian government.
1,000 IU, 2,000 IU is a ridiculous dose… if you stay in the sun for 20 min your body produces naturally around 10,000 IU… which obviously is the amount you need otherwise your body just would not produce it.
Studies with Vitamin D3 are "recent" and not part of the medicine literature books for this reason and also because it's not interesting for the Pharma industry, who funds most of the researches and medical schools/books.
If you just play the smart and do your research you'll see the thousands of papers published about the relation of Vitamin D3 and the immune system. If you rather trust in "your neuro" just because he's a neuro… good luck! Unless he's a very studious kind of person he may not be aware of any of this, since it's not broadly discussed in the medical conferences that neuros attend… surprise surprise, it's because they are sponsored by Pharma companies too!
Just for the record, I'm a patient following Prof. Coimbra's protocol for almost 2 years at this point and my MRIs indicate that my MS is in remission state, for over a year now (around 18 months) I haven't experienced any new relapse.
If I was trusting 100% the knowledge of my neuro and my GP I'd be taking the same ridiculous doses that you guys take, plus the expensive and harmful drugs produced by Pharma companies… ah, not to mention that I'd very likely to be seeing my health to deteriorate too.
My post may sound a bit rude, but it's really ticked me off the discrimination posted above… I sincerely wish all the best to everybody here and your families, independently of the treatment you decided to follow… I'm not defending any treatment here, just saying that you should be less lazy and less racist and ignorant before posting.
Peace.
My vitamin D was found to be low at diagnosis. I take 1,000 iu daily.
Mine was 20, I have not had it checked since starting the supplements.
Mine was 20, I have not had it checked since starting the supplements.
Great minds think alike :-) When I read Brazilian Dr., my mind flashed instantly to DR. Zamboni and CCSVI!
Kyle
Kyle
The link between vitamin d levels and MS is still in the hypothesis stage. I'm a part of two studies which are simply looking for a link, and the hospital I attend maintains specific two-year fellowships for specific research on the subject. "Seems to be working" isn't enough for me.
A connection has to be proven, then it's a very long way from establishing what to do if there is in fact a connection. Skipping the troublesome science part of the equation on the path to an eponymous protocol raises my alarm bells.
Reading the subtitles from the video you linked to is troubling. His response to why there has been no double-blind, randomised, controlled drug trial doesn't hold water in the slightest. I was on a randomised, double-blind, controlled drug trial for three years. I can be done in an ethical manner. It's done all the time. Except by those trying to short-change science, which this man has all the hallmarks of. Guess he's the Zamboni du jour.
A connection has to be proven, then it's a very long way from establishing what to do if there is in fact a connection. Skipping the troublesome science part of the equation on the path to an eponymous protocol raises my alarm bells.
Reading the subtitles from the video you linked to is troubling. His response to why there has been no double-blind, randomised, controlled drug trial doesn't hold water in the slightest. I was on a randomised, double-blind, controlled drug trial for three years. I can be done in an ethical manner. It's done all the time. Except by those trying to short-change science, which this man has all the hallmarks of. Guess he's the Zamboni du jour.
PS to youyous---
Not saying this applies in the instance you mention and I haven't checked into it, but any website, blog, huckster or whatever can say whatever they want on the web, and a lot of it is downright dangerous. I stick to mainstream research sites, MS centers, etc. for my information.
If the Brazilian doctor's thesis is valid, then the results will be reproducible and the findings will be endorsed and followed by the mainstream community. That's when I personally will be persuaded.
ess
Not saying this applies in the instance you mention and I haven't checked into it, but any website, blog, huckster or whatever can say whatever they want on the web, and a lot of it is downright dangerous. I stick to mainstream research sites, MS centers, etc. for my information.
If the Brazilian doctor's thesis is valid, then the results will be reproducible and the findings will be endorsed and followed by the mainstream community. That's when I personally will be persuaded.
ess
From what I've read, massive dosages of D should be taken only for a very brief time and only under a doctor's strict supervision.
My levels of D have never been very bad, but still my neuro wanted it higher. I take 2000 extra units a day (plus what's in multivitamin), and my last reading was 70. My neuro considers that ideal.
ess
My levels of D have never been very bad, but still my neuro wanted it higher. I take 2000 extra units a day (plus what's in multivitamin), and my last reading was 70. My neuro considers that ideal.
ess
(I'm sorry, my message got deleted because I posted a link to a blog. Sorry I was not aware of the policy. Here is what I wrote - rectified :) )
Hello,
Here is a video that I find very interesting. It is by a Brazilian Doctor who found a strong link between the levels of Vitamin D and autoimmune disease.
He treats MS and other illnesses with strong doses of Vitamin D (more than 10.000 IU). There are many patients with MS who follow his protocol and seem to get better and go into remission. He states that it is not a cure but a long term treatment.
Surprisingly, there seems to be quite a lot of information on Vitamin D and MS in Portuguese (spent some days translating ... Hey! it's better than stressing!)
It's quite an interesting video. I would really appreciate your input on it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOfO29rL-gI#t=119
You can find online blogs and websites referring to this Vitamin D treatment, one by an Australian patient for whom the treatment seems to be working.
Hello,
Here is a video that I find very interesting. It is by a Brazilian Doctor who found a strong link between the levels of Vitamin D and autoimmune disease.
He treats MS and other illnesses with strong doses of Vitamin D (more than 10.000 IU). There are many patients with MS who follow his protocol and seem to get better and go into remission. He states that it is not a cure but a long term treatment.
Surprisingly, there seems to be quite a lot of information on Vitamin D and MS in Portuguese (spent some days translating ... Hey! it's better than stressing!)
It's quite an interesting video. I would really appreciate your input on it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOfO29rL-gI#t=119
You can find online blogs and websites referring to this Vitamin D treatment, one by an Australian patient for whom the treatment seems to be working.
If we are comparing apples to apples then I agree with Red. VIt. D (25 hydroxy) levels of 150 border on toxic. The range for OK vitamin D levels is 30-100 ng/mL. Many of us with MS struggle to maintain 30 ng/mL, even with D3 supplementation. I alternate between 10,000 and 5,000 IU,Day and my last level was 40.
Kyle
Kyle
I take D3 only. Vitamin D Council has an articles about vitamin D levels: I tested my vitamin D level. What do my results mean? I just picked the last two levels since the article is very long....
"My level is between 100-150 ng/ml
Although these levels aren’t toxic and aren’t usually harmful, they are thought to be too high. There are no known benefits to having a vitamin D level over 100 ng/ml. A study by a group of researchers in Utah found that levels over 100 ng/ml are linked to a slight increased risk of developing an irregular heart beat called atrial fibrillation.
You should take steps to lower your levels to below 100 ng/ml , unless you are under the supervision of your doctor. To lower your levels, stop taking supplements. After three months, test your vitamin D levels and adjust the amount of supplement you take once your test results show your level has dropped back down to the normal range.
My level is greater than 150 ng/ml
You have toxic levels of vitamin D, which can be harmful to your health. You should take steps to lower your levels to below 100 ng/ml unless you’re under the supervision of your doctor.
To lower your levels, stop taking supplements. After three months, test your vitamin D levels and adjust the amount of supplement you take once your test results show your level has dropped back down to the normal range."
"My level is between 100-150 ng/ml
Although these levels aren’t toxic and aren’t usually harmful, they are thought to be too high. There are no known benefits to having a vitamin D level over 100 ng/ml. A study by a group of researchers in Utah found that levels over 100 ng/ml are linked to a slight increased risk of developing an irregular heart beat called atrial fibrillation.
You should take steps to lower your levels to below 100 ng/ml , unless you are under the supervision of your doctor. To lower your levels, stop taking supplements. After three months, test your vitamin D levels and adjust the amount of supplement you take once your test results show your level has dropped back down to the normal range.
My level is greater than 150 ng/ml
You have toxic levels of vitamin D, which can be harmful to your health. You should take steps to lower your levels to below 100 ng/ml unless you’re under the supervision of your doctor.
To lower your levels, stop taking supplements. After three months, test your vitamin D levels and adjust the amount of supplement you take once your test results show your level has dropped back down to the normal range."
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