Aa
muscle aches, pain, joint pain
Hi,
I have had for the last year muscle aches and joint pains that are continual, but vary in intensity. It started with a severe stressfull event last fall. I started to have muscle twitches and charlie horses all over my body. It feel like my muscles have been stretch for so long that they are inflammed. I also had/and still do to some extent tingling/cooling feeling in my feet and hands. My MD said that it was anxiety/depression related. I finally got fed up and went to another md about 9 months ago. He took some preliminary blood test and only thing he found was a very mild elevation in my ALT and AST. Those test were repeated and again were mildly elevated. So I had a liver ultrasound and was normal and also a hepatitis panel which also was normal. So the MD said not to worry. So my psychologist put me on wellburtrin and klonopin and it has help about 60%. At this point I looked on the internet and found info on MS and ALS and the like and freaked out. This only made things worse. I finally went back to my md this past week and the dr agreed to test me for lymes (results pending) and refer me to a neurologist. I also have been tested for HIV and tests were negative (3 times). My question is do you think this has some neurological component to it? Or is it just anxiety related?? Does MS present this way?? What should/can the neurologist do (test wise) that can ease my worries about some awfull neurological disease? Finally, there has been some mention about post-viral syndrome? What viruses could cause that, and would it last this long?
I have had for the last year muscle aches and joint pains that are continual, but vary in intensity. It started with a severe stressfull event last fall. I started to have muscle twitches and charlie horses all over my body. It feel like my muscles have been stretch for so long that they are inflammed. I also had/and still do to some extent tingling/cooling feeling in my feet and hands. My MD said that it was anxiety/depression related. I finally got fed up and went to another md about 9 months ago. He took some preliminary blood test and only thing he found was a very mild elevation in my ALT and AST. Those test were repeated and again were mildly elevated. So I had a liver ultrasound and was normal and also a hepatitis panel which also was normal. So the MD said not to worry. So my psychologist put me on wellburtrin and klonopin and it has help about 60%. At this point I looked on the internet and found info on MS and ALS and the like and freaked out. This only made things worse. I finally went back to my md this past week and the dr agreed to test me for lymes (results pending) and refer me to a neurologist. I also have been tested for HIV and tests were negative (3 times). My question is do you think this has some neurological component to it? Or is it just anxiety related?? Does MS present this way?? What should/can the neurologist do (test wise) that can ease my worries about some awfull neurological disease? Finally, there has been some mention about post-viral syndrome? What viruses could cause that, and would it last this long?
deal sal1975
have you asked or heard os the term cluster headaches my father gets them and sounds like it may fit the same profile. just something to think about or ask about
have you asked or heard os the term cluster headaches my father gets them and sounds like it may fit the same profile. just something to think about or ask about
opinions needed
cpk 2301
emg normal
biopsy shows myopathy
nerologist has ruled out dystrophy, polymitosis
he says were onto rare and abnormal
any sugestions as to what that might be? hes not saying
pretnazone did nothing to help
pain stiffness everywhere and loss of mobility in right hand
please help
cpk 2301
emg normal
biopsy shows myopathy
nerologist has ruled out dystrophy, polymitosis
he says were onto rare and abnormal
any sugestions as to what that might be? hes not saying
pretnazone did nothing to help
pain stiffness everywhere and loss of mobility in right hand
please help
Please help!!
My mother had been having brief episodes of vertigo fo the past few months. She went to a doctor , got a head scan and it was negative. One day, while at work, she got extremely dizzy, had a very bad heeadache, and started to hyperventilate. She said she even saw a flash in both her eyes. She was rushed to the ER, where her BP was reported as 212/106. An MRI was done and shown to be negative. They concluded it as anxiety and high BP. She was put on cozaar for BP. A week later she was still dizzy and had headaches radiating from the front of her head to the back and down her neck and ears.She could not even read, focus on anything or even watch T.V. She had that same attack a couple days later and rushed to ER again, where they did a head scan, and when it turned out negative, they dismissed it as anxiety and gave her lorazepam(anxiety meds). She was ok for a while, but she still could not use her eyes for anything, and same type of headaches still persisted everyday. We got her eyes checked and they said she had astigmatism and needed only reading glasses. We got glasses that corrected all that, but she still could not do anything. Last wekk we rushed her to ER AGAIN. She thought her head would explode and she would die any second. The doctor there concluded it as tension headaches!! Now my mom is on all these medications, and there is no improvement. She now has the same headache every hour followed by dizziness. She cannot do literally anything! It has made things difficult for everyone, as I can not even leave her alone. She has an appointment with a neurologist, but I am skeptical. Does anyone know what this could be? Here is some info on her: She is type 2 diabetic, with hypertension, and hypothyroidism(all controlled). She is on glucophage, glyburide cozaar,lipitor, and thyroxine.
My mother had been having brief episodes of vertigo fo the past few months. She went to a doctor , got a head scan and it was negative. One day, while at work, she got extremely dizzy, had a very bad heeadache, and started to hyperventilate. She said she even saw a flash in both her eyes. She was rushed to the ER, where her BP was reported as 212/106. An MRI was done and shown to be negative. They concluded it as anxiety and high BP. She was put on cozaar for BP. A week later she was still dizzy and had headaches radiating from the front of her head to the back and down her neck and ears.She could not even read, focus on anything or even watch T.V. She had that same attack a couple days later and rushed to ER again, where they did a head scan, and when it turned out negative, they dismissed it as anxiety and gave her lorazepam(anxiety meds). She was ok for a while, but she still could not use her eyes for anything, and same type of headaches still persisted everyday. We got her eyes checked and they said she had astigmatism and needed only reading glasses. We got glasses that corrected all that, but she still could not do anything. Last wekk we rushed her to ER AGAIN. She thought her head would explode and she would die any second. The doctor there concluded it as tension headaches!! Now my mom is on all these medications, and there is no improvement. She now has the same headache every hour followed by dizziness. She cannot do literally anything! It has made things difficult for everyone, as I can not even leave her alone. She has an appointment with a neurologist, but I am skeptical. Does anyone know what this could be? Here is some info on her: She is type 2 diabetic, with hypertension, and hypothyroidism(all controlled). She is on glucophage, glyburide cozaar,lipitor, and thyroxine.
No, it's not. The rheumatoid factor is used to test for rheumatoid arthritis (and is sometimes positive in other connective tissue diseases as well). The ANA is the anti-nuclear antibody test, which is done to test for lupus (usually highly positive in lupus) but also can be weakly or mildly positive (1:80, 1:160) in other connective tissue and/or autoimmune diseases (rheumatoid arthritis, scleroderma, Sjogren's, even MS)--and even some chronic infections. Certain patterns (speckled, nucleolar, etc.) seen in the ANA crop up more often in connection to specific connective tissue diseases: For instance the nucleolar pattern is seen most frequently with scleroderma (but that doesn't necessarily mean one has to have scleroderma just because they have a positive ANA with a nucleolar pattern). I have had a positive ANA with a nucleolar pattern at least 12 years, but I do not have the symptoms of scleroderma. So, nothing is black and white with the ANA test. Hope that is helpful.
is an ANA blood test the same as "rheumatoid factor" blood test?? thanks
I agree with a poster above that you should start on magnesium suppliments. I take meds that deplete magnesium and can tell you that low magnesium will cause leg muscle cramps, twitches and spasms. It will also cause heart arhythmia (sp?) or tachycardia.
Also, since you had a trauma and stress, did you ever have shingles from it? That can cause lasting nerve pain. Or with trama/stress you could get a flair up of other resident viruses such as CMV (cytomegalovirus) or Epstein Barr Virus or others. We all have resident viruses from childhood to young adulthood that could flair up when stress causes drastic (usually temporary) immune system depletion. Then the virus can leave pain issues behind.
I'm a transplant recipient (medically immunosuppressed), currently on neurontin for nerve pain from a viral flair up. I'm hoping the neurontin will act to calm my nerves down from the pain overreaction. My liver coordinator thinks it may take as long as a year, though.
Also, since you had a trauma and stress, did you ever have shingles from it? That can cause lasting nerve pain. Or with trama/stress you could get a flair up of other resident viruses such as CMV (cytomegalovirus) or Epstein Barr Virus or others. We all have resident viruses from childhood to young adulthood that could flair up when stress causes drastic (usually temporary) immune system depletion. Then the virus can leave pain issues behind.
I'm a transplant recipient (medically immunosuppressed), currently on neurontin for nerve pain from a viral flair up. I'm hoping the neurontin will act to calm my nerves down from the pain overreaction. My liver coordinator thinks it may take as long as a year, though.
I really don't think your problems are anxiety or depression related. I think your symptoms are real, like mine. I have nearly the same symptoms going on as you. Mine is undiagnosed as well. It sure feels like MS to me. Prior to all these symptoms starting I was completely normal, happy, exercised all the time. I am anxious and depressed now BECAUSE OF THIS ILLNESS. I wasn't before. It's very real. I think the worst part is not knowing what it is, what it will do etc..Hopefully, it will resolve in time. Surprisingly, none of the doctors I've seen have treated me like I'm nuts. Although, they have said that I am not coping very well with this illness.
In regards to the comments made by posters about anxiety causing symptoms. I think there are people who are very anxious about everything and have been throughout their lives. I think these are the people who have symptoms caused by anxiety. I think the rest of us are anxious because of our symptoms.
Regarding your medical situation, could you have a spinal tap done as an outpatient? I had one. It either rules in or rules out MS. Best wishes to you and everyone else who is going through this.
In regards to the comments made by posters about anxiety causing symptoms. I think there are people who are very anxious about everything and have been throughout their lives. I think these are the people who have symptoms caused by anxiety. I think the rest of us are anxious because of our symptoms.
Regarding your medical situation, could you have a spinal tap done as an outpatient? I had one. It either rules in or rules out MS. Best wishes to you and everyone else who is going through this.
I've been dying to get back on the net and put in my two cents worth on this very important topic - I see that many have already, but I still have some things to add. I want to explain my original short comment - 'was that meant to be helpful?'.
When I read lawl's comment, it upset me - for several reasons:
1. I'm afraid he might be right.
- A year ago, I had a very strange illness - started with tingling & weakness in my thumb, which spread elsewhere, balance, speech & coordination problems + lots of others, and visual - mostly double vision. to cut a very long story as short as possible, I saw a Specialist Physician, who told me I had MS - he was certain because the eye exam showed nerve damage and Neurological exam indicated lesions elsewhere - even had the babinski sign. He ordered an MRI to confirm. I live in New Zealand - the med system here is very different - free, but you have to wait if you're not dying. The MRI was scheduled for 1 month later. In the meantime, I joined the MS society, came to accept my fate, and told pretty much everyone I knew. The response was amazing - people were so supportive and kind - I got a few too many overly dramatic responses at times, which I hated, but told myself at least they cared.
Ok, so I got the MRI, and went to get the Dx so I could get some treatment, and IT WAS NEGATIVE! I was stunned! I was referred to a neuro, but because of the results, I wasn't to see him for months. I asked about treatment and was prescribed amitriptiline.
My own doctor suddenly treated me very differently to when she thought MS - narrowed her eyes at everything I said - this I found so frustrating, but the worst thing was that most of the people who'd been so supportive, did'nt call any more - even people I'd been previously close to. I've tried to understand why - frankly its been enormously hurtful and one day I'll get the nerve to ask one of them why, but I guess I'm a little afraid of their answer.
I had to pay alot of money to jump the queue and see the neuro privately - he did mention the stress theory, but after talking to me for a while, was satisfied this was not the case with me. I had no stressful incident leading up to it, in fact things were great. He said he had no Dx at this time - except possible complex migraine.
These days I struggle to cope with daily life. I struggle to exercise as it causes my spine to burn and my arm muscles to swell and hurt like hell - even a walk round the block is too much at times. My left toes burn and buzz 24/7 and it spreads in waves up to my knee. The double vision upsets me most as it interferes with my work which I love - I've had to cut back alot, or the eyestrain gets too much.I have had times when I couldn't go to sleep because if I shut my eyes, they'd go cross-eyed and would hurt so bad. I wear a prism which helps, but its not enough. Neuro recently did another MRI - again Neg. He put me on Neurontin, which got rid of some of the head pressure & dizziness, but not the pain. He thinks its MS, but can't give treatment without dx. Can't give dx til I have another 1 or 2 major 'attacks' so I can meet the criteria to go into hospital and get all the tests as needed, when needed.
The Neuro tells me its a process of exclusion - he can't look at other possible dx's until MS is ruled out and so I have to wait.
-There is a point here - this guy is employed at a free hospital - he has no financial gain by puting me through tests - in fact, he has to justify the expense to his bosses. THIS IS A NORMAL PRACTICE EVERYWHERE - to exclude diseases first.
Still, somewhere in the back of my mind, there is this fear that this is all in my mind and I'll be honest, that its become greater than my fear its MS. I guess because of the way people treated me - somehow having MS validates me in society, but no dx and people look at you sideways - is'nt that crazy!!!!
2. Its the way he said it. Yes - I gotta say it - read like a know-all being judgemental. Lawl - once you opened up and told us why you said what you did, you altered my perception of it. I can understand your frustration with your very expensive experience, and can also see that you'd want to share with/ warn others about what you've learned. But if you truely want to make a difference (as I believe you do) you need to think very carefully about how you approach this very sensitive subject. If you had shared your story in the first post, I would have been far more receptive to it - less defensive. I would have immediately understood where you were coming from. And do stay away from words like Hypocondriac(sp?). This is a horror word for exactly the kind of people you are trying to reach - there are plenty on kinder alternatives.
I've gotta go to bed - this is far longer than I planned, and sadly doesn''t read as well as it did in my head, but it will have to do.
When I read lawl's comment, it upset me - for several reasons:
1. I'm afraid he might be right.
- A year ago, I had a very strange illness - started with tingling & weakness in my thumb, which spread elsewhere, balance, speech & coordination problems + lots of others, and visual - mostly double vision. to cut a very long story as short as possible, I saw a Specialist Physician, who told me I had MS - he was certain because the eye exam showed nerve damage and Neurological exam indicated lesions elsewhere - even had the babinski sign. He ordered an MRI to confirm. I live in New Zealand - the med system here is very different - free, but you have to wait if you're not dying. The MRI was scheduled for 1 month later. In the meantime, I joined the MS society, came to accept my fate, and told pretty much everyone I knew. The response was amazing - people were so supportive and kind - I got a few too many overly dramatic responses at times, which I hated, but told myself at least they cared.
Ok, so I got the MRI, and went to get the Dx so I could get some treatment, and IT WAS NEGATIVE! I was stunned! I was referred to a neuro, but because of the results, I wasn't to see him for months. I asked about treatment and was prescribed amitriptiline.
My own doctor suddenly treated me very differently to when she thought MS - narrowed her eyes at everything I said - this I found so frustrating, but the worst thing was that most of the people who'd been so supportive, did'nt call any more - even people I'd been previously close to. I've tried to understand why - frankly its been enormously hurtful and one day I'll get the nerve to ask one of them why, but I guess I'm a little afraid of their answer.
I had to pay alot of money to jump the queue and see the neuro privately - he did mention the stress theory, but after talking to me for a while, was satisfied this was not the case with me. I had no stressful incident leading up to it, in fact things were great. He said he had no Dx at this time - except possible complex migraine.
These days I struggle to cope with daily life. I struggle to exercise as it causes my spine to burn and my arm muscles to swell and hurt like hell - even a walk round the block is too much at times. My left toes burn and buzz 24/7 and it spreads in waves up to my knee. The double vision upsets me most as it interferes with my work which I love - I've had to cut back alot, or the eyestrain gets too much.I have had times when I couldn't go to sleep because if I shut my eyes, they'd go cross-eyed and would hurt so bad. I wear a prism which helps, but its not enough. Neuro recently did another MRI - again Neg. He put me on Neurontin, which got rid of some of the head pressure & dizziness, but not the pain. He thinks its MS, but can't give treatment without dx. Can't give dx til I have another 1 or 2 major 'attacks' so I can meet the criteria to go into hospital and get all the tests as needed, when needed.
The Neuro tells me its a process of exclusion - he can't look at other possible dx's until MS is ruled out and so I have to wait.
-There is a point here - this guy is employed at a free hospital - he has no financial gain by puting me through tests - in fact, he has to justify the expense to his bosses. THIS IS A NORMAL PRACTICE EVERYWHERE - to exclude diseases first.
Still, somewhere in the back of my mind, there is this fear that this is all in my mind and I'll be honest, that its become greater than my fear its MS. I guess because of the way people treated me - somehow having MS validates me in society, but no dx and people look at you sideways - is'nt that crazy!!!!
2. Its the way he said it. Yes - I gotta say it - read like a know-all being judgemental. Lawl - once you opened up and told us why you said what you did, you altered my perception of it. I can understand your frustration with your very expensive experience, and can also see that you'd want to share with/ warn others about what you've learned. But if you truely want to make a difference (as I believe you do) you need to think very carefully about how you approach this very sensitive subject. If you had shared your story in the first post, I would have been far more receptive to it - less defensive. I would have immediately understood where you were coming from. And do stay away from words like Hypocondriac(sp?). This is a horror word for exactly the kind of people you are trying to reach - there are plenty on kinder alternatives.
I've gotta go to bed - this is far longer than I planned, and sadly doesn''t read as well as it did in my head, but it will have to do.
lawl, ScarabRad & Annie62
From one end of the spectrum, to the other (opinions) I enjoyed very much reading them. Thoughtful and well articulated. Great points presented.
Imagine a wold filled with people who could sit down together and do just this...it'd be a much better place.
lawl said:
>Let's review the facts:
1) A very stressful event precipitated your symptoms.
2) Your symptoms are perfectly explainable by a depression/anxiety diagnosis.
2) You've had two sets of redundant blood work done, three HIV tests, a liver ultrasound, and a hepatitis panel--all of which came back normal. You're probably very worried, unable to function fully, and you probably constantly doubt the test results and your doctors' diagnoses.<
I think it's good to review what was happening to prior to the illness, genuine or psychosomatic. Reaction to the physical problem? Did you think it could be something simple or did you automatically think the worst?
Anyway, good thought.
>While no diagnosis is 100%, there comes a point when all the information indicates that your chances of having a serious illness are very slim--on the order of one in several tens of thousands, one in several hundreds of thousands<
This is a good thought...however, to also think that bad things only happen to others, isn't a good attitude to take on. Doctors should not think this way either. Zebras or Horses? Both should be considered but the most probable need be ruled out first for obvious reasons.
>I'm not sure why the neurologist avoids any mention of psychosomatic disorders so much, but I'm guessing it's for fear of being sued.<
I don't know, other than I don't think fear of being sued would be the case.
I am certain that doctors who specialize in certain systems have heard from many patients of their (patient's) angst with non-specialized doctors. I am sure many times the Specialist did find a genuine problem and thus, "Not all in their head" or "Anxiety-Depression" diagnosis, not to mention other misdiagnosis. Having that experience, I am sure that causes them to pause. A true professional considers all possibilities.
ScarabRad wrote:
>I am thoroughly convinced that stress and anxiety fuel positive feedback loops that not only manifest in innumerable physical symptoms (many, frightening) but that become self-sustaining once the stressor(s) have been removed or adapted to.<
I agree.
>I am very resistant to taking Klonopin but do find that as little as .25 mg helps to quell the fears and even relieve some of the symptoms.<
After my tonsils were removed (April of this year) my E.N.T. prescribed Ativan. I've never taken it before. It helped. One day, I just "broke" and took half a tablet (left over)...it put both my feet back down to earth, so that I could reasonably deal with my anxiety at that moment. Having said this, I will say that a good beer or glass of red wine has about the same effect.
>I find it immensely reassuring to see that there's a wide world of individuals who are experiencing what I am experiencing, not that I'd wish this on anyone.<
I think I know what you mean. I am 34 years of age and really, have had a good life healthwise. Things have cropped up and in talking to others...I've discovered that I may have been luckier than most in that regard. People have had some of my symptoms for years and none life threatening.
What do we know unless we talk about it?
>Who's up for a few drinks?!!<
Hey, me!
I have spoken with a few doctors who stated that while med students, experienced an array of symptoms: that which they were studying. They did indeed grin about it. A dose of how powerful the mind truly is.
Annie:
You bring up very good points and some, that left me very heavy hearted.
My background in the area of health [field] is Pharmacy [Technician] and in a clinical setting. I had access to ambulatory records of those requiring prescriptions.
I was very interested in the reasons we were giving out medication.
To note, I was in perfect physical and mental health at the time. My reason for curiosity is that..is who I am.
In my youth, I was curious about systems: be it plant, animal or human. Math and Science were my strong suits. A difficult problem? I had to think about it, even if I lost sleep over it. What we call "compulsive" and an area that I'd never want "deadened" even if it serves me in the wrong way at times.
Anyway.
All that you've said is true and does happen and I suspect more often than we'd like to think.
I discovered first hand (as the patient) how those who are perceived as "anxious etc. etc." are treated. Wrong, just plain WRONG!
Whether you suffer from mild anxiety/depression or to the extreme i.e. plain nuts...what(?), do the mental/emotional condition serve, somehow, as a barrier to genuine illnesses outside of these two areas?! No!
A true professional will keep these in mind, consider them but he/she will not rule out other possibilities.
Yes, it certainly can be a psychiatric problem alone but certainly, it can extend beyond that as well.
My last experience that left me in the dumps was 5 days post tonsillectomy: I swallowed a Vicodin that didn't go down right. I knew it as soon as I tried to swallow it. My tonsils were 4+ in removal. Suddenly I'm left with a massive, open area and muscles out of whack. I could taste the pill.
At 1am, I drove myself to the small country town E.R.
Was I anxious, yes. None surprising to anyone who understands this procedure and at my age, in particular.
In looking from the outside, this was me: black converse high tops, plaid pants (night pants) and camo fleece pullover. I did look funny. I'm tired, uncomfortable and worried too.
Obviously, I'm not dieing (but I feared it). Eventually I am seen. The E.R. doctor was hostile from the start. She mentioned a surgical team, mentioned it again and that she wasn't going to call one in.
What the heck, I didn't want one! I asked her, don't you have a dental mirror? She, annoyed, said no. Followed with, what good would one do?! I told her, that I can see my vocal cords (thus opening of esophagus). She grabbed her throat and TOLD me that was impossible- vocal cords are located here (motioned hand to her throat.) What the hell! I was stunned and... hurt. I said nothing. She considered me either a) a liar or b)plain nuts.
I asked her if she would call my E.N.T. She said that she doubted that she would be able to get ahold of him on account of the hour. I told her that he personally told me that he'd be available at any hour. She left. Nothing.
I went out to reception and one of the gals- as I was staring at the clock and totally disheartened- read me. She called my E.N.T.
A call came in, the E.R. doc came in to tell me so and in a dumb arse, childish way: told me which button to press. I talked to him. After the call, she came in and wanted to "make-up" with a darned hug session. What the heck. Manipulation and she was wrong and I think she knew it.
A follow up with my E.N.T. and I told him that I could view my cords with a mirror. He said, "Yes, we can view them in the same way." and patted my back. I think he knew what happened there (dumb arse E.R. doc).
Prior to all this, he was aware of my absent gag reflex.
Initially though, my E.N.T. as good and as compassionate at he was, in asking me about conditions prior to the surgery, seemed abit annoyed when I mentioned that my heart does act in unusual ways sometimes (yet no medical dx in regards to this).
Just prior to my surgery, the nurse was upset over my heart rhythms. I told her, I may be anxious. She said, no, I was bouncing all over the place. I heard her speak with my E.N.T. and he ordered and EKG with strip. Tachardia, I guess. I am certain that if he had any doubts about me (what I genuinely felt), he no longer doubted them. Trust. Again, he also knew I had no gag reflex.
The anethesiologist wanted me to have my thyroid checked out.
Not long ago, I changed GPs (ex GP and he work in the same clinic). I went in, thinking I had oral thrush. He wasn't sure but beings I had it in the past, gave me liquid Nistatin (anyway)and wanted a CBC that day. That day, I began taking the Nistatin.
The results came back in (a few days later), a high white blood count. He wanted me back in after Nistatin, for a CBC. I came in, blood was drawn and my WBC was within normal range.
A greater level of trust, even though he wasn't sure initially.
All about timing and appropriate tests. While I say this, I am clear on symptoms presenting, without showing up on tests. Any good Doc will want a follow up if he/she is suspecting.
My previous Dr. knows our position in this town and immediately, I think, attributed any problem I had as being stress related.
My new doc (same clinic, only one we have) looked at it abit differently- understands our position in this town and also knows that neither of us are quick to jump to conclusions. If either of these persons are worried, maybe I need to look into matters. The different perspectives.
To tell you this, was my previous doc wrong? I think she was right but wrong in immediately writing everything off as being purely anxious. Am I anxious? I consider myself high strung and moments of anxiety. Depressed? I would say, mildly so and for years. Winter months are worse.
I've come to this, I am not certain that my problems are purely due to anxiety/depression/stress. Yet, I do have these, irregardless of what may be going on. I am tending to it. I am taking things one step at a time. Watching and waiting. Along with truly trying to reason with everything. Taking them straight on.
To exclude anxiety/depression as the sole problem... is a mistake, in my opinion. Just as it would be wrong to not consider other possible conditions. This is the point of my post.
Irregardless of who we are; be it genuine physical, medical problems or not...we ALL deserve good medical care.
We have only one short, shot at life and that should be taken seriously. By both ourselves and by doctors.
Regards,
~Kate
First of all, keep in mind that I am unable to diagnose you because I am unable to examine you, this forum is for educational purposes.
From the symptoms and history you provided, I do not suspect that you have a serious neurologic condition, but when concerns arise screening tests are often needed to make sure. As you implied, the thought of a "scary disease" can often drive people unknowingly to develop similar symptoms (Medical students learning about diseases often think they have a tumor, aneurysm or such).
That being said, I would recommend an EMG to evaluate you for motor neuron disease (ALS), myopathy or other neuro-muscular problem. Fasiculations (twitches in muscles) are found in normal people, after excessive exercise, after a viral syndrome (no specific virus is known, but occurs after many) and in association with neuromuscular diseases, such as motor neuron disease (ALS). Fasiculations are not an "early sign" of ALS and are in no way specific for ALS. When they occur in association with progressive weakness and atrophy without other explained cause, then ALS may be suspected. All people with fasiculations should have an EMG to put their mind at ease, or in rare cases to diagnose a previously unrecognized condition.
From the symptoms you described this is very unlikely to be MS (multiple sclerosis). MS often presents with isolated numbness/weakness in a limb, blurred vision/pain in one eye, double vision, balance problems, fatigue, etc. each episode lasting for 2-6 weeks, then improving. However, due to the many different things that can present with anxiety alone, I would suggest an MRI of your brain with contrast.
I would also send some more screening blood tests if not already completed: ANA (positive in rheumatological diseases that cause joint pain), Ceruloplasmin/Copper (to test for Wilson's disease-which causes psychiatric changes and liver disease), RPR, B12, B6, vitamin E, and ESR/CRP.
Many people with odd symptoms that are not easily understood, do indeed have anxiety related symptoms, but rarely a person presents with an odd story and they end up with a definite and treatable disease. For the oppertunity to help those few people, these screening tests are needed.
I hope this has been helpful.
From the symptoms and history you provided, I do not suspect that you have a serious neurologic condition, but when concerns arise screening tests are often needed to make sure. As you implied, the thought of a "scary disease" can often drive people unknowingly to develop similar symptoms (Medical students learning about diseases often think they have a tumor, aneurysm or such).
That being said, I would recommend an EMG to evaluate you for motor neuron disease (ALS), myopathy or other neuro-muscular problem. Fasiculations (twitches in muscles) are found in normal people, after excessive exercise, after a viral syndrome (no specific virus is known, but occurs after many) and in association with neuromuscular diseases, such as motor neuron disease (ALS). Fasiculations are not an "early sign" of ALS and are in no way specific for ALS. When they occur in association with progressive weakness and atrophy without other explained cause, then ALS may be suspected. All people with fasiculations should have an EMG to put their mind at ease, or in rare cases to diagnose a previously unrecognized condition.
From the symptoms you described this is very unlikely to be MS (multiple sclerosis). MS often presents with isolated numbness/weakness in a limb, blurred vision/pain in one eye, double vision, balance problems, fatigue, etc. each episode lasting for 2-6 weeks, then improving. However, due to the many different things that can present with anxiety alone, I would suggest an MRI of your brain with contrast.
I would also send some more screening blood tests if not already completed: ANA (positive in rheumatological diseases that cause joint pain), Ceruloplasmin/Copper (to test for Wilson's disease-which causes psychiatric changes and liver disease), RPR, B12, B6, vitamin E, and ESR/CRP.
Many people with odd symptoms that are not easily understood, do indeed have anxiety related symptoms, but rarely a person presents with an odd story and they end up with a definite and treatable disease. For the oppertunity to help those few people, these screening tests are needed.
I hope this has been helpful.
Yes, that was meant to be helpful.
I'm not speaking as an entirely detached observer; for three months I agonized over my horrid symptoms--the sensation of my skull caving in or shifting whenever I tried to sleep, constant nausea and dizziness, the sensation of cold liquid metal pressing on my brain, neck pain, (rarely) violent muscle twitches, waking up feeling like the sides of my head had been viced between a set of clamps. When I first felt my head caving in, I was scared, but due to my financial situation I opted not to see a doctor (I'm a poor college student from a poor family).
After a particularly vivid episode, I finally became convinced that my skull was breaking and that my symptoms were due to brain damage and rushed to the emergency room. A CT scan was done. My head was fine. The doctor did notice that my blood pressure was very high, peaking at 186/117. I wasn't showing signs of severe anxiety, so she concluded that my symptoms were due to hypertension. It was immediately apparent that the diagnosis was clearly wrong.
I was referred to another doctor, who thought I might have some kind of hormonal disorder. My blood pressure was fine. Blood tests checked out fine. Urine tests--I have no idea; I believe the hospital either lost the results or didn't finish them in time. The doctor scheduled me to see another doctor, who looked over my charts and referred me to a psychiatrist. I declined to see the psychiatrist--I was a couple of weeks away from going back to school, where I could see a psychiatrist for free. (Even though I clearly told the doctor I did not want an appointment with a psychiatrist, I found out he still scheduled me for the appointment. Infuriating, really.)
My experience with the hospital was unhelpful and expensive (it'll end up costing me a few thousand dollars). My faith in doctors is also a bit shaken; the hypertension diagnosis was obviously stupid, because it failed to explain why my head caving sensation occured only during when I was very tired and trying to sleep. Since my doctors found nothing wrong with me, I'm probably okay. I came to the same conclusion ScarabRad did: most of my symptoms were perpetuation themselves in a feedback loop.
And, yes, my dizziness and nausea persisted even when I was completely relaxed. I couldn't function during the beginning of the semester. It's quite amazing what stress can do to you.
And, yes, I still doubt. And I still worry.
I'm not speaking as an entirely detached observer; for three months I agonized over my horrid symptoms--the sensation of my skull caving in or shifting whenever I tried to sleep, constant nausea and dizziness, the sensation of cold liquid metal pressing on my brain, neck pain, (rarely) violent muscle twitches, waking up feeling like the sides of my head had been viced between a set of clamps. When I first felt my head caving in, I was scared, but due to my financial situation I opted not to see a doctor (I'm a poor college student from a poor family).
After a particularly vivid episode, I finally became convinced that my skull was breaking and that my symptoms were due to brain damage and rushed to the emergency room. A CT scan was done. My head was fine. The doctor did notice that my blood pressure was very high, peaking at 186/117. I wasn't showing signs of severe anxiety, so she concluded that my symptoms were due to hypertension. It was immediately apparent that the diagnosis was clearly wrong.
I was referred to another doctor, who thought I might have some kind of hormonal disorder. My blood pressure was fine. Blood tests checked out fine. Urine tests--I have no idea; I believe the hospital either lost the results or didn't finish them in time. The doctor scheduled me to see another doctor, who looked over my charts and referred me to a psychiatrist. I declined to see the psychiatrist--I was a couple of weeks away from going back to school, where I could see a psychiatrist for free. (Even though I clearly told the doctor I did not want an appointment with a psychiatrist, I found out he still scheduled me for the appointment. Infuriating, really.)
My experience with the hospital was unhelpful and expensive (it'll end up costing me a few thousand dollars). My faith in doctors is also a bit shaken; the hypertension diagnosis was obviously stupid, because it failed to explain why my head caving sensation occured only during when I was very tired and trying to sleep. Since my doctors found nothing wrong with me, I'm probably okay. I came to the same conclusion ScarabRad did: most of my symptoms were perpetuation themselves in a feedback loop.
And, yes, my dizziness and nausea persisted even when I was completely relaxed. I couldn't function during the beginning of the semester. It's quite amazing what stress can do to you.
And, yes, I still doubt. And I still worry.
Thankyou for sharing - its helpful to know where you're coming from.
Hi, I was wondering, I have read a lot about lymes, and it says that the test are not that accurate. My MD ordered a Lymes IgG and IgM something like that. Is that the correct test to take? And should I be satisfied if that is negative? Thanks
Could very well be fibromyalgia. That is worth checking into, however unfortunately there are not tests for it. There is also no known cause, and no known cure. I hope that studies for this syndrome produce something soon. I'm going to try to see if my Dr. will give me a script for the new Lyrica, or refer me to a neurologist. The pain, poor sleep every night, depression and fatigue are about to do me in.
Question for jr978 - are you female? How old are you? From what I've read, FM occurs mostly in women over 40.
Question for jr978 - are you female? How old are you? From what I've read, FM occurs mostly in women over 40.
Hikerunner
I've read many of your posts, and what you have been through must be very tough. I can fully understand your point regarding Lyme and antibiotics, and I dont really get why with this illness gets a lower profile than it deserves
What Scarabrad said about Klonopin was a personal comment relating to him.. he's not advising everyone else takes it. Where I think we have to be careful is.. its an undisputed FACT that depression/anxiety can cause all the symptoms JR978 has.Im not saying that what he has, or that these symptoms are specific, but it is a distinct possibility.You dont need a history of depression to get depression/anxiety or to feel 'sad' or have a reason.Its a very common illness (and like lyme underdiagnosed)
So agree with your point on antibiotics, but not all depression comes from another underlying disease and many people who's docs say they have depression have exactly that. depression.
Roll 'em
I've read many of your posts, and what you have been through must be very tough. I can fully understand your point regarding Lyme and antibiotics, and I dont really get why with this illness gets a lower profile than it deserves
What Scarabrad said about Klonopin was a personal comment relating to him.. he's not advising everyone else takes it. Where I think we have to be careful is.. its an undisputed FACT that depression/anxiety can cause all the symptoms JR978 has.Im not saying that what he has, or that these symptoms are specific, but it is a distinct possibility.You dont need a history of depression to get depression/anxiety or to feel 'sad' or have a reason.Its a very common illness (and like lyme underdiagnosed)
So agree with your point on antibiotics, but not all depression comes from another underlying disease and many people who's docs say they have depression have exactly that. depression.
Roll 'em
Lots of illnesses--not just depression and anxiety--are precipitated by stressful events in one's life including autoimmune diseases--of which MS, MG, polymyositis (all neurologic/muscular diseases) are a few (not that I think the original poster has any of these). And those are REAL diseases with REAL consequences.
Just because the patient had some blood work done and it was negative doesn't mean she/he doesn't have something medical wrong as the cause of his/her symptoms. It just means the doctors haven't done the right tests yet and/or the results are not 100% conclusive, pointing to anything definitive. And he/she should doubt ANY doctor who continues to insist that nothing is medically wrong when serious/distressing symptoms continue to go unanswered: I knew some one who had stomach pains that continued despite the doctors writing it off as anxiety. This person had a real mental illness--bipolar disorder, but she also had something else--stomach cancer, and died in her late 40s after finally being dxd with metastatic disease. Possibly it was already metastatic by the time she was having symptoms--I don't know much about stomach cancer--but possibly she didn't have to die at all if her "hypochondriacal" stomach complaints hadn't been dismissed by the doctors she had seen. Get my point?
You said that a lot of hypochondriacs fear that they have MS. There are also a lot of people, mainly women, who have MS-type symptoms for years which are written off as psychosomatic-and then find out they either do have MS AFTER ALL or some other neurologic and/or connective tissue disease that bodes a worse prognosis BECAUSE of the lack of early diagnosis. If you don't get a diagnosis you don't get treatment--it's as simple as that.
And this forum is "chock full of people" who are sick, and nothing more. A few of them might be hypochondriacs (but even hypochondriacs can have real medical problems--the two are not exclusive!) and some might have anxiety--once again, one can have anxiety and STILL have a real neurologic disease. I assume the reason they are here is because they are looking for an answer to what is causing their symptoms so they can get help/treatment, usually because they haven't gotten a diagnosis yet, or a definitive diagnosis, or because they want to commune with other people who have the same kinds of symptoms/illness that they have.
That's truly amazing, because I have been to four neurologists in the past 7 years and all four either told me (the extremely arrogant ones who couldn't keep their smug preconceptions to themselves) or wrote in my notes that they thought my symptoms were psychosomatic. And why would the neurologists on this board care if they "alienated the most frequent members?" They are providing this service for free!
Let's review the facts:
1) A very stressful event precipitated your symptoms.
2) Your symptoms are perfectly explainable by a depression/anxiety diagnosis.
2) You've had two sets of redundant blood work done, three HIV tests, a liver ultrasound, and a hepatitis panel--all of which came back normal. You're probably very worried, unable to function fully, and you probably constantly doubt the test results and your doctors' diagnoses.
3) Simply reading about MS caused you to strongly fear the possibility of having the disease. A lot of hypochondriacs also fear MS.
It sounds like depression/anxiety and hypochondria to me. While no diagnosis is 100%, there comes a point when all the information indicates that your chances of having a serious illness are very slim--on the order of one in several tens of thousands, one in several hundreds of thousands
Also, it's important to note that this forum is chock full of people with similar conditions--hypochondria, anxiety problems, etc. Why else would laypeople be here, incessantly self-diagnosing? The advice they'll give you will be sure to drain your wallet even further; all those medical tests aren't cheap, and are very likely unnecessary.
More importantly, don't expect the neurologist to tell you that you're likely suffering from a psychosomatic disorder, even if it's the most obvious case in the world. I'm not sure why the neurologist avoids any mention of psychosomatic disorders so much, but I'm guessing it's for fear of being sued. By giving you the most medically conservative advice (suggesting you take a bevy of expensive tests), the neurologist shields himself from lawsuits. There may also be a fear of alienating the most frequent members of the board.
1) A very stressful event precipitated your symptoms.
2) Your symptoms are perfectly explainable by a depression/anxiety diagnosis.
2) You've had two sets of redundant blood work done, three HIV tests, a liver ultrasound, and a hepatitis panel--all of which came back normal. You're probably very worried, unable to function fully, and you probably constantly doubt the test results and your doctors' diagnoses.
3) Simply reading about MS caused you to strongly fear the possibility of having the disease. A lot of hypochondriacs also fear MS.
It sounds like depression/anxiety and hypochondria to me. While no diagnosis is 100%, there comes a point when all the information indicates that your chances of having a serious illness are very slim--on the order of one in several tens of thousands, one in several hundreds of thousands
Also, it's important to note that this forum is chock full of people with similar conditions--hypochondria, anxiety problems, etc. Why else would laypeople be here, incessantly self-diagnosing? The advice they'll give you will be sure to drain your wallet even further; all those medical tests aren't cheap, and are very likely unnecessary.
More importantly, don't expect the neurologist to tell you that you're likely suffering from a psychosomatic disorder, even if it's the most obvious case in the world. I'm not sure why the neurologist avoids any mention of psychosomatic disorders so much, but I'm guessing it's for fear of being sued. By giving you the most medically conservative advice (suggesting you take a bevy of expensive tests), the neurologist shields himself from lawsuits. There may also be a fear of alienating the most frequent members of the board.
What about the idea that I don't really feel anxious or depressed. I've had no explanation for my symptoms and it really erks me when my doctor keeps pushing anxiety on me. Sure my symptoms (tingling and twitching, fatigue) are strange, but how long do I have to go on feeling like nobody believes me.
Is there something like pre-MS? Where a clinical diagnosis just isn't there YET?
Is there something like pre-MS? Where a clinical diagnosis just isn't there YET?
I would agree with Scarabrad/lawl also. Am in the same camp with continual symptoms but all tests normal. i think the problem is we do doubt doctors diagnosis because the symptoms remain and do become self fuelling after a while. Its a matter of breaking the cycle to convince our minds we are healthy which is easier said than done.
JR978 I have similar symptoms to you also for nearly a year,and similar reactions from Docs.it is tough when they say your okay after about three seconds in their surgery-- been there too. However ive been to Neurologist etc had tons of tests. I find that no matter how many tests you have, you always want more which i think fuels the problem.So its a tough balance to get right. I dont feel depressed either but you dont need to, in fact medicine could do everyone a favour and rename it something more relevant as the whole condition is very misunderstood. You can get many physical symptoms from depression including muscle/nerve pain so hang in there
Roll'em
JR978 I have similar symptoms to you also for nearly a year,and similar reactions from Docs.it is tough when they say your okay after about three seconds in their surgery-- been there too. However ive been to Neurologist etc had tons of tests. I find that no matter how many tests you have, you always want more which i think fuels the problem.So its a tough balance to get right. I dont feel depressed either but you dont need to, in fact medicine could do everyone a favour and rename it something more relevant as the whole condition is very misunderstood. You can get many physical symptoms from depression including muscle/nerve pain so hang in there
Roll'em
Hi I appreciate everyones responses. I know that this is probably all anxiety/depression related. But you have to admit, most people would not think that being depression or having anxiety would cause so many physical symptoms (I don't feel depressed nor do I feel anxious). This has been going on for over 1 year. I definately agree that the internet makes it easy to self diagnose and if one is slightly a hypochondriac then the combination isnt good. I think the MAIN reason why I doubt things, is because of my MD's, when I have been examined over the last year they have not really did much testing on their own suggestion (I have suggested some of the test). They usually just look at me, walk around me, barely touch me, and say "HMMM" looks like anxiety to me! Oh well!
As an M.D. who has gone through an exhaustive work-up for all sorts of neurological disorders stemming from a period of extreme but temporary stress, I am in the exact same camp as poster "lawl". I am throughly convinced that stress and anxiety fuel positive feedback loops that not only manifest in innumerable physical symptoms (many, frightening) but that become self-sustaining once the stressor(s) have been removed or adapted to.
I have had every neurological symptom described throughout this forum (mostly dizziness/imbalance, migrating twitching, sore/tight/rigid muscles with cogwheeling, hyperawareness of normal bodily functions [heart rate in particular]) and have struggled to accept the fact that I am, most probably, "OK" from a physical perspective. Stress/anxiety rob me of my ability to reason clearly at times and I find myself having to remind myself over and over again that the symptoms, although bothersome, probably do not serve as a harbinger of serious disease. For example, I was throughly convinced that I must be HIV-positive given a new onset of hives/rash that would crop up periodically, even though I was a regular blood donor, had a perfectly healthy wife and 2 kids and hadn't been with another sexual partner in 17+ years!!!
I am very resistant to taking Klonopin but do find that as little as .25 mg helps to quell the fears and even relieve some of the symptoms. All other meds (SSRIs, tricyclics) just made me feel worse.
How many of you get at least temporary relief just from reading about others experiences on this forum? I find it immensely reassuring to see that there's a wide world of individuals who are experiencing what I am experiencing, not that I'd wish this on anyone. I am certain that were we all to commingle at a bar for a few hours over a few drinks, we'd all see that there is a lot of overlap in our respective experiences. We'd all probably feel better for at least a few days, as well. Who's up for a few drinks?!!
I have had every neurological symptom described throughout this forum (mostly dizziness/imbalance, migrating twitching, sore/tight/rigid muscles with cogwheeling, hyperawareness of normal bodily functions [heart rate in particular]) and have struggled to accept the fact that I am, most probably, "OK" from a physical perspective. Stress/anxiety rob me of my ability to reason clearly at times and I find myself having to remind myself over and over again that the symptoms, although bothersome, probably do not serve as a harbinger of serious disease. For example, I was throughly convinced that I must be HIV-positive given a new onset of hives/rash that would crop up periodically, even though I was a regular blood donor, had a perfectly healthy wife and 2 kids and hadn't been with another sexual partner in 17+ years!!!
I am very resistant to taking Klonopin but do find that as little as .25 mg helps to quell the fears and even relieve some of the symptoms. All other meds (SSRIs, tricyclics) just made me feel worse.
How many of you get at least temporary relief just from reading about others experiences on this forum? I find it immensely reassuring to see that there's a wide world of individuals who are experiencing what I am experiencing, not that I'd wish this on anyone. I am certain that were we all to commingle at a bar for a few hours over a few drinks, we'd all see that there is a lot of overlap in our respective experiences. We'd all probably feel better for at least a few days, as well. Who's up for a few drinks?!!
I'm sorry - was that supposed to be helpful? And if you know so much about it, what are you doing here?
Just wanted to add my two cents worth. I was dx with Lyme disease and am currently being treated. 90% of testing for lyme comes back negative. If you want a more acurate test there is a lab that specializes in lyme testing called Igenex.
One of my most annoying and frightening symptoms of all this is muscle twitching....i feel like a xmas tree wrapped in blinking lights...every time a light blinks thats a twitch!
I have had every test known done for MS and it has been ruled out. From what I have read muscle twitching is usually not a huge symptom of MS.
Good luck with your testing and I encourage you to look at lyme disease especially if your testing for other things comes back normal.
Lesley
One of my most annoying and frightening symptoms of all this is muscle twitching....i feel like a xmas tree wrapped in blinking lights...every time a light blinks thats a twitch!
I have had every test known done for MS and it has been ruled out. From what I have read muscle twitching is usually not a huge symptom of MS.
Good luck with your testing and I encourage you to look at lyme disease especially if your testing for other things comes back normal.
Lesley
Sorry for the multiple post, but I was also wondering if you took a klonopin and the symptoms were relieve somewhat maybe 75%, would this rule out MS.
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