Is it the Cancer or the Chemo that makes us so tired

[Jan214]

When I was first diagnosed, I had just finished moving and I did it mostly by myself although I had some guys come in and move the big stuff like the appliances and piano.  I was tired but could still do stuff.  Now I seem to be tired and weak all the time.  I could do more before I had the surgery when my CA125 was 585 and I had very large tumors of 11 & 14 cm. When I was on Carbo/taxol I had at least a good week and a half with every treatment where I felt really well and could do things around the house and prepare for the next chemo..  With the Gemzar I never felt well and had no good days.  Now I am starting back on the 10th on Topotecan and God only knows how horrible that will be. I guess I just don't understand what it is that makes us so tired.  I know some may be drugs, but what exactly does cancer do to us that makes us so tired or is it all just the chemos dragging us down?  My onc said it was both, but didn't really elaborate on what the cancer is doing to my body & what effect that has on energy  levels.  Any ideas from you all that have gone through so many chemos?  
Thanks
Jan

[Jan214]

I am glad you are doing well on the Gemzar.  It was not exactly my best friend.  It brought my numbers down, but I still did not get a remission and I was really sick.  I hope it is kinder to you.

Thank you for your comments, but could you please not write in all caps.  It is very hard to read.  I do know one woman whose keyboard was stuck at work & she could only type in caps, but if that is not the case with you....Please.

[brownize]

I BELIEVE ITS THE COMBO OF CANCER
A ND CHEMICAL..I ASKED MY DOCTOR IF THE GEMZAR IS EATING UP THE CANCER  OR THE CANCER IS EATING UP THE GEMZAR..BUT IVE DONE WELL WITH GEMZAR SO I CANT COMPLAIN NOW.  I DO FEEL THAT I HAVE 'CHEMO BRAIN..BUT DEALING WITH THAT AS WELL.
I TRY TO REST EVERY AFTERNOON
AND IM GOIUNG TO START 'ROLLING' TO HELP ME WITH MY ADHESIONS.


BROWNIZE

[Jan214]

Thank you all for your comments and support.  It is nice to see that some of you that haven't gone through this can be so understanding and others seem so clueless.  When you are throwing up for 2 days straight you are NOT counting calories, just how many times you dash to the toilet.  Well, dash is a bit of an overstatement since I  don't exactly "dash" these days.  I have strategically placed trashcans so I don't have to run for it.  

I honestly think that it is just the cancer and being through so many chemos.  I have been VERY strong for someone so scrawny and it is hard to give that up along with my manic personality.

Paula, there was a study done by Rutgers I think about that but I will have to look it up.  It is just complete BS when they say it doesn't have anything to do with chemo.  They don't know jack about having cancer they just know a LITTLE about treating it.

I haven't been taking my supplements as much as I should, but all I seem to do is take pills.  It is hard enough to remember to take all the ones I do take.  I will try to get back on a better schedule with my supplements, but when I started throwing up so much they were the first things to go.
Thanks again,
Jan

[gma718]

I feel for you Jan as this is such a tryng time for you....I am just tired all the time and thankfully I am not ill....but I do have anemia which can make you tired...who wouldnt be tired....look what your body is going through!!!! I pray that you gain some strength during the next journey you are about to face....I wish I was near so I could help in anyway...Maybe go into the health store and see if there are any vitamins that could boost you up a little....I pray for you and all of you on here...that you find strength in this awful fight .....Love, Gia :)

[PF_PVD]

Oh yes, not only did the onc I saw tell me the fatigue was causing the short-term memory loss, but he also said they have found no correlation between chemotherapy and memory loss.  I'm sure I just read a study done on breast cancer patients (his specialty) that says the opposite.

[msjazz]

Feels like a family reunion. Good to hear from everyone, lets share our thoughts more often. That is the purpose of this forum to learn, discuss, and help each other. Thanks Jan

[learninboutlife]

I just wanted to thank you all for being willing to post this stuff and really share what you guys go through. I really hate "seeing" you all go through this though!
Hugs,
Fran

[crecco]

  I have to agree with you. Since I have been on chemo non-stop and several different kinds, there is no Dr in the world that will ever be able to tell me that my fatigue is what causes my chemo brain. I have noticed that on some kinds it seems to let up, but then others I notice right away when it comes back full force. They all make me tired but only part of them scramble my brains.
      Chris

[SimplyStar]

I copied this from the nutrition booklet  that Mayo gives as a hand out to all those receiving chemo.  Leslee was told that the calorie intake and the protein levels were the best way to fight fatigue, Even on Genzar, she has been able to work a 8 hour day at a very active job.  She also was told that when she relaxes to free her mind of all stress and really get a complete body rest for short times during the day.  This takes practice,  she imagines herself  to be a hybernating bear,  slows her heart rate and respirations,  goes into total muscle relaxation, she calls it her Zombie  naps.  she gets 2 15 minute breaks per day plus a 1/2 hour lunch, she uses those times at work  to "free up her body" as she calls it.  She also has let go of all those things she does not have control over,  this is what they recommended for the chemo brain, they said not to over load the brain with useless clutter, frees it up  and allows it to function better.  She says that the Ipod  helps in all of these relaxation methods. She uses her energy when she needs it, but saves it as much as possible.  They seem to think that the body is using all the calories to fight the cancer and also to work with the chemo,  so that is why they want her to concentrate on replacing the calories.

How does chemo and cancer  Impact Energy Level?

Cancer-related fatigue is often made worse if you are not eating enough or if you are not eating the right foods. Maintaining good nutrition can help you feel better and have more energy. The following are strategies to help improve nutritional intake:

Meet your basic calorie needs. The estimated calorie needs for someone with cancer is 15 calories per pound of weight if your weight has been stable. Add 500 calories per day if you have lost weight. Example: A person who weighs 150 lbs. needs about 2,250 calories per day to maintain his or her weight.
Get plenty of protein. Protein rebuilds and repairs damaged (and normally aging) body tissue. The estimated protein needs are 0.5-0.6 grams of protein per pound of body weight. Example: A 150-pound person needs 75-90 grams of protein per day. The best sources of protein include foods from the dairy group (8 oz. milk = 8 grams protein) and meats (meat, fish, or poultry = 7 grams of protein per ounce).
Drink plenty of fluids. A minimum of 8 cups of fluid per day will prevent dehydration. (That's 64 ounces, 2 quarts or 1 half-gallon). Fluids can include juice, milk, broth, milkshakes, gelatin, and other beverages. Of course, water is fine, too. Beverages containing caffeine do NOT count. Keep in mind that you'll need more fluids if you have treatment side effects such as vomiting or diarrhea.
Make sure you are getting enough vitamins. Take a vitamin supplement if you are not sure you are getting enough nutrients. A recommended supplement would be a multivitamin that provides at least 100% of the recommended daily allowances (RDA) for most nutrients. Note: Vitamin supplements do not provide calories, which are essential for energy production. So vitamins cannot substitute for adequate food intake.

[vegas2cr]

My oncologist she told me to expect chemo brain and that it would or could last for years... she also told me I would suffer much worse neuropathy than most because I already had neuropathy from 44 years of type 1 diabetes...She gave me every scenario possible and then some and not in a scary manner but hey this is the way it is... She also told me I had to remember that chemotherapy was toxic poison....  maybe the difference is I am not in the United States..

[Jan214]

Screw what that Dr said.  It is the Gemzar.  I didn't have those problems when I was fatiqued from carbo/taxol.  That is like the neurologist that was an hour late for my appt. (first one of the day and he's late) and his office knew it was going to be a tight  fit for me to see him and get across the street for my chemo on time.  The twit had the nerve to tell me that it was not chemo brain it was anxiety.  After my oncologist asked me what tests he did, because they didn't get copies of those I told him the quack didn't do any tests and of course I was anxious he was an hour late.  He failed to put that in the report.  My onc drew a big read X over the page and said he would find me someone else.  Drs just don't believe in chemo brain.  They also don't believe that there are any "unknown" side effects so the stuff we go through that isn't on the list of side effects doesn't exist.  They will know better if they get cancer won't they.

[PF_PVD]

Yesterday the oncologist I saw told me it was the fatigue that was causing the increase in my short-term memory loss (it's really gotten bad recently) and not the gemzar, but I still think the gemzar has something to do with it.  At any rate, it's an endless loop--chemo, anemia, fatigue, and repeat. Paula

[Teresa222]

"Even though I have read that cancer wears you out, I have never seen anything that actually explains why. The only thing that I can think of is the major battle going on inside us, that it must take a lot of energy for our bodies to fight it."  

I agree with the above Jan.  I think our immune systems are fighting so hard, that our energy levels are depleted on many days.  This, coupled with all the toxic drugs inside our bodies and we are doomed to feeling puny.  I am hoping the cancer in me in mostly gone, mostly, heck I would hope for 100% gone!  Perhaps our bodies are also fighting it's return.  I tried reading more on it yesterday and got skeeeeeeeeeeered from all the negative articles on OVCA, that I gave up.  I read on one site, that clear cell OVCA should be  considered Stage III, regardless of other factors.  That one sent me for a loop!
Teresa

[msjazz]

Hi Jan,  Do you have a recent red blood count and hemocrit? My red blood has been down for over 6 months, I have the reports for that far back. If it is low you will be very tired. I think depression also makes us tired. I feel like I am o.k., but in the back of my mind there is always the what is going to happen next. That will make me feel tired too. I think of all the things at the office and here I need to do, then I realize I will have to do this as I am able.to. Then, like yesterday, I feel overwhelmed and lie down and go to sleep. Its a combination of all of it for me, my mind can do everything, but my body isn't co-operating at the same speed.    ( my red blood has been hanging in the 3.0 to 3.9 even with the aranesp shots)    Donna

[crecco]

  I* just hate it that you are still feeling so bad. I have read in several different places that fatigue is a large part of cancer, and we all know that it is a major part of chemo, combine the two and I also wonder if I will ever have even half the energy that I used to have.
  I do recall that before dx I was so, so tired all of the time, but then I was suffering from very bad insomnia also. But even after dx and getting the insomnia under control, I have still always been more tired than before, even after sleeping for days!
  Even though I have read that cancer wears you out, I have never seen anything that actually explains why. The only thing that I can think of is the major battle going on inside us, that it must take a lot of energy for our bodies to fight it.
  I do hope that you will do better on the Topotecan that you have on the others. I am keeping my fingers crossed for you.
   Love Chris

[Searching48507]

Jan,

I am so sorry that you are having the tiredness and days that you have been having.  I will keep you in my prayers that this new regimine will give you some energy back.

Peace,

Karen