People Allergic to Me (PATM) Community
People Are Allergic To Me (PATM)
About This Community:

This patient support community is for discussions relating to PATM - People Allergic to Me.

Font Size:
A
A
A
Background:
Blank
Blank
Blank
Blank
7200 Comments Post a Comment
Viewing 7401-7598 comments:
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Im thinking you would have to get a healthy individual's results so you could have something to compare to.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
That is true Ray. But researchers know nothing about PATM. If they do, they'll know the ORS ones and its mental by definition.

The only person that can do the comparison is a patmer himself. Perhaps we can ask one of your Dr's to do it.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
So, did anyone buy Vit.D ?
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
I already messaged you privately but YES I started taking high doses of Vitamin D 2 days ago.  So far, no change. (But I am feeling tired).  What about you, are you back on Vitamin D?  Have you considered getting your D levels tested with a blood test?  I'm considering it but would need to get a day off of work to do that.  Let's keep in touch about Vitamin D.  I am also doing the nasal irrigation with GSE just for the heck of it!  These are the only two things I'm doing.  (besides trying to stay connected to friends and family, it is VERY important that we STAY CONNECTED socially, I think that Patm is directly connected to stress/doubt/sadness).  
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Yes, I bought one that is 1000 IU and take 1 per day. However, this is only my second day taking it will let you know if I notice any difference.

By the way do you think I should up the dosage? Because the bottle says 1-2 capsules can be taken throughout the day.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
I've been on the Candida diet for about a month now. I see some improvements (lot less gas and leaky gut symptoms, noticeable weight loss), but I still have a ways to go. The most difficult part is hanging out with friends. I can't have a drink and most things on the menu are off limits--no fun. However, I'm determined to stick it out. Keep up the good work and don't give up!
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Been there. It's been tough holding jobs for more than a year at a time. In addition to the Candida diet, you may want to try a cleanse as well at some point. I did a 10-day cleanse about 8 months ago and most of my symptoms went away (until I started back eating my normal foods).

During the cleanse, my skin and scalp cleared. Even a nagging lower back pain went away. It never hurts to do a bodily "system reset". I can't promise that the Candida diet or a cleanse will be the cure, but I think you'll be a lot closer to one, and healthier for sure. I'll keep sharing my results as I continue the diet and please do the same. Be encouraged!
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Good to hear your progress.

Here's the reality. It does lower patm within a few days. It stays the same throughout the years so don't expect it to get any better. But if you touch the bad stuff, it comes back in full strength right away.

I've been doing it for years now and it was the same since the first few days I tried it. 30% disappears... If I take excessive probiotics, it can take away almost 80% but will drop to normal if I continue doing it regularly. I have to rest awhile before doing it again.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
If we have conference and get into one room, any doctor will certainly notice the difference because we'll multiply the effect many many times that we won't have to say anything, the reaction will do the talking.

My prediction is, any medical expert attending will cough and sneeze his way in to the conference room..lol. .. and will get very sick within minutes. They won't have to think about the causation of their sickness until much later as they will lose a lot of their concentration due to the concentrated toxins in the air. I have seen a lot of my victims lose concentration many times and even say it so I'm curious what will happen when we multiply the effect.

Better, have him sit with us on a table and have dinner. I don't eat dinner with other people but when it does happen, they usually have choking fits and have to stop eating and leave immediately. Imagine having that effect on someone but several times more. It would be interesting to see!

The unpredictable question to ask is, if we do happen to be in one room, will we affect each other? That is something we don't know for sure unless its done.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
I mean....  Thats a good Idea but how many of us actually live close to each other. As far as traveling with this condition I don't know I don't have a car and the thought of getting on a bus or a plane just isn't my favorite. I think its time we should all get to know each other more we don't have to say names just facts.

I am hispanic 30 goin on 31 years old I live In Las Vegas, NV ( anybody else in vegas or close by?) I have been having patm or tmau symptoms for  just a little over 2 and a half years. Its started with people sniffing around me, but about 5 months ago the patm started. It didn't start all at once however it gradually got worst. Ok thats me who else is willing to share more?
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
On another note. I have a question for everyone. I ordered my vitamin d supplement online I should get it in a couple days. Since I believe that there is a smell component to my case ( don't know how many of you have that) I also ordered activated charcoal pills. My question is that I believe activated charcoal absorbs things in your body or something like that, Should I take the charcoal while I am taking vitamin d or should I wait on the charcoal and just take the vitamin d? anybody know. In other words will the charcoal pills absorb any of the vitamin d.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
eckiuME23 - thanks for sharing your story and yes you want to take any supplements away from the charcoal pills.  Just separate them by an hour or two and you should absorb the vitamin d fine without the charcoal absorbing it.  Good question.  

Have you noticed a connection to your patm and your mood?  Did you become overly stressed around the time your patm started?  
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Someone on this board was connecting chronic pain to patm.  Well there is a lot of articles stating that low levels of vitamin D is a huge reason for the chronic pain:  http://www.webmd.com/pain-management/features/vitamin-d-deficiency-and-chronic-pain-link
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Here is a PATMer who somehow cured her PATM and vitamin d was part of her recovery:http://www.medhelp.org/posts/People-Allergic-to-Me-PATM/How-to-get-rid-of-PATM/show/774581
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Hi thank you for your answer and for your question. I believe I've been stressed sine this thing started. I posted before that I do believe that stress might have something to do with it. Maybe is the stronger more pungent sweat when we stress. About the vitamin d. When I was younger I got a check up once and I brought a small patch of bumps in my arm almost like goosbumps ecxept they don't go away right away and its only a small patch like a circle the size of a quarter. I remember him saying that it was because of a certain vitamin deficiency but I don't exacly remember which vitamin. I think he said it was vitamin D. but he said it was not very serious and just to take a supplement, well I never listened to him since it wasn't serious. Anyway I say that to say this In the last year or so I have been noticing alot more of these patches on my arms so what ever deficiency it is it must be worst now. I believe its vitamin d. So that gives me hope. Even if its not the full cure it couldn't hurt.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Thanks for sharing, eckiuME23. Have you thought about taking a high-dose multivitamin to cure whatever the deficiency may be?
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
The malodor is a real symptom, though not everyone with PATM has it. It doesn't have anything to do with poor hygiene. My guess is that it has something to do with the internal more so than the external. I've read that health professionals have said that there are distinct scents (not necessarily offensive) that people with certain conditions emit. I would also imagine that some type of nutritional deficiency could cause it and that stress could aggravate the symptoms. Of course, this is speculation as I'm trying to figure things out as well. But remember, you're not alone and I believe we all can beat this (PATM, TMAU or whatever else is affecting our quality of life).
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
I've read the Vitamin D posts as  well. I will try this and I really hope it works for all of us. I also read that the deficiency is mainly caused by people spending too much time indoors. I am guilty, as I work indoors for long hours into the evening--not much sun exposure.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Yes I tought about it recently but before it just wasnt an issue since it was just bumps on my skin. Now, however, putting 2 and 2 together I believe he might of said vitamin d and it makes sense since vitamin d has to do with our skin. Anyway i am definately going to try a multivitamin from now on but for now my concentration is on this vitamin d thin hope it works that along with the charcoal pill. It doesnt have to cure me completely but if it diminishes enough to allow us to live our lives or save money for more studies and what not. As long as it helps, hell it cant hurt thanks for your feed back.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Hi Everyone,

Long-time follower of this thread but first time posting. Been dealing with this mystery since 2006.

We result to experimenting on ourselves because that is our only option when doctors dismiss us as crazy. But self-experimenting is dangerous, frustrating, and has proven to be a waste of time and money. Plus, we can’t rule out the .1% chance that this is all in our heads. To clarify, I’m personally convinced this is real, but also recognize that my personal beliefs do not dictate reality.

It’s probably safe to assume that if we ever find a cure it will be with the help of medical professionals and/or scientists. I think our primary focus right now should be to convince doctors and researchers this is real (or convince ourselves it is not, as in the .1% case). Dfoe43‘s conference idea is along these lines, but I agree with eckiuME23 that it would be difficult to execute. Also, it would only be of value to those who attend. Ideally our proof will be easier to share with others so they can verify the raw data themselves.

I think we need to design the “perfect experiment” -- one which is simple for all of us to repeat locally and produces uniform data which is easy to compile into one large set of undeniable proof we can share with doctors/scientists. We need to agree on a design and then each execute it in an identical manner.

Of course, the toughest and most crucial part is designing such an experiment. We don’t want to go to the effort of designing/executing/sharing findings only to realize the whole thing had a flaw which renders our “proof” useless. Therefore the experiment must follow established scientific protocols and generate good statistical data. A basic internet search for “design sound experiment” reveals the essentials of what we’re after.

My best vision so far of such an experiment is measuring reactions in a group of test subjects when a PATMer is present with test subjects and also when they are not present. Some things we want to control:

1) Use the same test subjects in both situations. This means the PATMer needs to enter the room of test subjects after half of the testing duration is complete (not the first half, otherwise we might foul the room for the second half of the test).

2) Select test subjects as randomly as possible. They also should not know us in any way, or be aware of our condition. This means we could not repeat the same test twice with the same test subjects because they might remember us and react differently than they would to when the concept of PATM was new to them. Family/friends/etc must not be used as test subjects.

Below are some test venues I’ve come up with. They all have unique strengths and weaknesses:

* Movie theater: Either an assistant enters a movie theater at the start of a movie and enables an audio recorder, or the PATMer plants the device in a theater far enough in advance to the movie start time so that the air is clear by the time people enter the theater. Halfway through the show the PATMer enters the theater. Afterwards, the recording is analyzed by counting the number of coughs and/or sneezes during the first half of the movie and comparing that with the second half. One problem might be hearing reactions over the noise of the movie.

* Lecture / presentation: Very similar to the movie theater, except it would probably easier to hear reactions in such a quiet setting. If you’re lucky it will already be recorded for you like these events often are. Disadvantage is these opportunities occur less often than movies so they are less accessible to us (unless you’re a student). Also not as random as a movie theater since the same students attend any given class.

* City council meeting: It’s not uncommon for these to be recorded and posted to the internet by the city, which would alleviate that hassle and also would make it easier to see when the PATMer enters the room (for proof he/she was there). Accessibility may vary, and like the lecture, it wouldn’t be very random after the first run for any given city.

I could be missing a much simpler alternative, so please share any thoughts you have regarding a possible experiment design. I truly believe this is the next logical step for us, even if it requires a bit of investment up-front before we can see results.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
i have a blog y'all

https://openyourbottle.wordpress.com/2014/07/27/vitamin-d/
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
curepatmorbust -

I don't know about everyone else but I think it's a waste of time to try to convince doctors or scientists of PATM because:

1. It's beyond their ability to comprehend such a situation.  
2. My PATM goes away when relaxed.  One time I tried to prove it to my Dad, just the ACT of trying to prove it (trying to MAKE it happen) made it so that it DIDN'T happen.  
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
The very 1st thing that the PATM community needs is a real forum. This isn't a forum, this is ONE thread where all the important information get lost in the vast sea of noise/information

For example, let's say you want to show to a doctor a post that clearly explains PATM reactions, how will you do that? You can't because over 95% of the posts here talk about candida and whatnot. I challenge you to find ONE post that explains what PATM is for people not familiar with it, i give you 5 minutes. Good luck finding one among the 1000s of posts that talk about other things. Even if you do find it, there is no way to link individual posts so a doctor wouldn't be able to see it. Do you think doctors want to hear about the 100s of theories you have about what is causing PATM?

We don't have the ability to sticky important posts. We don't have to ability to organize. PATM has been discussed online for nearly 10 years and we still don't have something as simple as a forum.

FORGET trying to do any real activism if we can't even achieve something as simple as having our own forum lol. This thread is nothing more than a big clusterfu*k.

Blank
Avatar_f_tn
I guess with ray it might have been that the vitamin d super high dose of 500,000 ui ergo brand worked best we dontvknow if the vcine to had worked together with the vitamin d. The dosage for jim wass that big of as booster nad it was just once a week.  And that it was doctors order. Everything worked perfectly to kill the beast. Probably if we could get that high order from doctor as well probbly it would work.but we dont have that ergo vitamn d here in our country.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
true that, true that!
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
excellent, excellent  re-post about Viamin D3 !!!!!  thank you for sharing and God bless you always !!!!
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
I am a female, Asian, 22 year old from London, UK. I noticed the PATM reactions in 2008 when I was 16 but i'm sure it started earlier. I say this because when I think back I can remember the comments and coughs but I never regarded It to be me. What are your daily thoughts like? or are they voices. Some, not on this forum have mentioned  voice hearing and experiencing hallucinations in addition to PATM. I have them. I only noticed it 2 years ago. 2 years ago, for one month I was free of PATM. I don't know how. All I did was have so much passion in me to dream up something and boom the PATM went. It's a weird situation but I had no PATM reactions for a month. My family did not receive PATM reactions for a month. When they had realised something is not right, that I had been the cause of their PATM reactions for so long and suddenly it all went away they concluded nothing to be really wrong with me. To this day they cant quite understand. To be quite frank I don't understand either. I do realise like someone above post mentioned stress is a BIG related factor. Relax and FINDING yourself again. I experimented and came up with the following conclusions.
When you get a shock and your body goes zap. That's exactly what is happening to us. We have been traumatised to an extent. Anyone recall feeling different or odd as a child? Being bullied about certain smells? or emitting something offensive? Or being in a situation where bad smells or lets say being gay was a really BAD thing, or having bad breath was a TERRIBLE thing. Being smelly or different was DANGEROUS. This is when our stress levels go up, we don't know how to cope and it all just escalates, the voice hearing, the hallucinations (you may not even be aware of these things, like I was not for the most part of 20 years, remember I'm 22) What are your daily thoughts like.
When someone coughs before and during I hear screaming
'go away'
'leave me alone'
'no ones thinking about you' - I don't get this one anymore but I use to (these are all repetitive thoughts and in some sense very intrusive).
'shut up'
'**** off'


'
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Its unreal how many people are suffering from this condition. I bet there are thousands like us. It's all part of communication. Only humans have ideas and THOUGHTS about suicide. Do you think any other creature or animal has ever had a thought on something similar to suicide. Its our nature to communicate. But look what has happened. This PATM bugger.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
we are walking hallucinate. something is wrong and i'm about to find out...
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
yes vitmin d working for me now days I almost patm free 98% I take everday sun bath 1 hour and vit d capsul my patm start 1 year before when I was working inside of office I had long duty I didt go out side and my poor diet now I eat every thing ...
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
like which brand vitamin d u buying.. if it is there in nepal.. i am sure it will be here in india as well... did u get doctors prescription?
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
yes vitmin d working for me now days I almost patm free 98% I take everday sun bath 1 hour and vit d capsul my patm start 1 year before when I was working inside of office I had long duty I didt go out side and my poor diet now I eat every thing ...
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Hi tamanna99 thanks for the input. Honestly, yes It has crossed my mind that we are all crazy. I don't believe we are though. I think that we are having psychological problems as a side-effect of this patm/tmau thing. I don't think its the cause though, even though I agree with u that stess makes it worst. Hang in there. We are all trying this new vitaming d thing i still havent gotten mine but it should get here in the mail tomorrow. I also ordered activated charcoal pills hopefully it helps also. Maybe you should join us, the more test subjects the better. There are people posting that its worked for them lets see if it can help me 2. Like I said before it does not have to cure me completely but just let me live a better life. Thank you for you comments. Communication is very important please keep us posted on anything that u try or anything that works for you.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
u must take sun bath every day than working vit d capsul and do some straight exercise it helps our spinal there is no any oura chakra and any biological problam its going from our bone now I'm felling very well
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Thanks - you are right... it is difficult. I never thought about it that serious until you mentioned it. Now you got me thinking. What if we could get at least ten people to L.A.?

We'll leave it at that for now.

The reason why doctors can't really tell probably because most of them are immune to all kind of allergens coz they are exposed in their entire career to all kinds.

I do remember one doctor I went to see. He got a wild allergic reaction so got him thinking about it for a sec but I never went back to see him again coz I took a flight the next morning so never bothered.

But if some of us visit a doctor all at once, that will change things. The effect will multiply to lets say 10x or 20x. I don't think anyone can resist or fail to tell at that level of concentration.

I believe without any doubt that 15x or 20x people will put any doctor regardless how healthy they are into a sneezing/coughing fit the sec he puts himself within their presence.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
1000 UI isn't nearly enough, it's nothing.  Take 5 000 to 10 000 a day. People with low level of Vit D are told to take 10 000 a day by doctors so it's a safe dose.

Like i said before, Vit.D is not a cure, it just reduces my patm to much lower levels.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
About a year ago, i found another thing that reduces PATM but i gave up on it  because it was somewhat costly. I will try it again, with the combination of Vit.D, maybe that will reduce patm to nothing.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
I know y'all here are having an intelligent conversation and adding important information but I think It would be amazing if we had a place like Social Anxiety Support where we could have an organized forum where we could just rant about our struggles~ and have different pages for those who want to talk or read about possible cures, coping etc. but anyway while we're here. What's this talk about Vitamin D?? Are you guys buying it online, why? I'm aware my diet and eating habits are poor but there's no way I'm going on a confusing strict diet I'm only 16 and my mom would get suspicious lol. I love food it's the only thing that comforts me. (Besides knowing you lovely people exist :D ) I have stopped drinking soda, though. I'm trying to drink more water. I'm just really fed up with this sh*t, knowing some have had to deal with this for over 10 years.. I don't think I can do it honestly. Daily thoughts of suicide, anxiety leaving the house (which I do about once every other month, I know. terrible) we live in a small apartment complex and everyone's super close, there's no privacy. I don't leave my room when the front door is open.. and on top of that I'm very sensitive so when I hear some of the reactions it's like a gun being fired and i just have to cry. I've been doing that a lot lately as it seems to be getting worse. I can't be free, in the comfort of my own home, I feel trapped. I can't get a job, I'll never get to experience real high school, I don't plan on starting my own family like this.. anyway, I'm definitely not going to tell a doctor about this, I don't know about a nutritionist. I'm sure I am lacking some but am I too young for one of those lol? How do I go about that. And do you guys mention patm to them??
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Since you're only 16, DO NOT mention patm to any health professional because one of them might label you as 'crazy' and put you in a psy ward. That's the absolute worst case scenario but i wouldn't risk it. Wait until you're a legal adult to talk about PATM to anyone, even your family or school teachers. Basically, anyone who can be an authority figure, do not ever mention patm since they have legal power over you, you can't predict their reaction after you tell them about patm.

I actually know one PATM sufferer from the Philippines who was in a mental institute for a month, and what's even more scary is that i haven't heard from her in a long time.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Hi hang in there were going to find a solution to this. We have to work together on this nobody is better than anybody here. The reason we are all talking about Vitaming D is because there a few people in here saying that vitaming D helps diminish the effects of patm. It does not seem to be a cure, however. But if most people in here are like me well take what we can get. I think most of us are going to be reporting back in a few days if it has worked for us. If not then we move on to the next thing I mean what else can we do.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
I agree we are long overdue for a real PATM discussion forum, so I went ahead and created one. There's plenty of room for improvement, but it's a step up from this giant thread.

CHECK OUT THE NEW PATM FORUM AND VOICE YOUR FEEDBACK:

(MH doesn't want me to post links, so put dots between the following words to form the full address):

patm boards net
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
@eckiuME23 - If you were here long enough you would have known that once you report someone, all related post are taken off including yours. So every time you click on the report link, the web accounts with admin access to this forum will delete both our posts. Even though you didn’t intend to delete your own post, it got deleted together with mine. Start with understanding little things like that before pointing fingers that I’m reporting you.

So there is a good chance that you reported yourself and accused me instead!

Yes, I agree with you there, we are trying to help each other. Totally agree! But you werent a while ago. I congratulated those that are reasoning well and have even apologised when I wrong. I’m not wrong now so you won’t get one from me. You should be apologising not me. But I assume you are too arrogant and unprofessional to possess such attitude.

Anybody that relates patm to stinky,smelly and foul mouth breath, I will have to disagree, there is no “if” there. I will state my points as others are free to do so. I also try to help if that person happens to have Halitosis as well. Like you! Also, anybody is free to state an opinion.

Just a while ago you were trying to burn me and because you couldn’t accept my reply, you ended up reporting both of us! That’s not very honourable.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Oh get over yourself dude. apologize? apologize for what? for defending myself and other from your venomous rant. Like I said before you don't know all the symptoms, so please stop acting like you do. I never said I had bad breath you did I was just trying to be nice and agreed with you. lets leave all the post on from now on and we will let everybody else decide who really is in the wrong here. someone who really needs help and wants to help others or someone like you who just wants to make yourself feel better. You know I don't even think you have this. You call the self the Foe, so what does that tell you. Suck it up dude, you cant do nothing to me that life hasn't already done to me.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
So I was right, you are arrogant. Btw, I don’t intend to hurt you in any way. I wouldn’t if I could but I bet you would do that to me if you were able to.

Also, I don’t know all of the symptoms and have never said so don’t put words in my mouth. Besides, we wouldn’t be here if we didn’t have it.

But I do know that patm has nothing to do with Halitosis or body odor because there is reliable proof about it. You don’t have any proof at all to say otherwise. Years of experience will get you there so humble yourself and wait.

You say you aren’t smelly or bad breath. No odor! So you aren’t classified as an ORS mental patient after all. Great! Now you’ve changed your words all of a sudden. So let me refresh your memory and show you the words that came out of your mouth!

I quote you below asking others if they smell like yourself on Jul 15,2014. I remember ray2505 trying to help you out but you kept on going afterwards.

“hey ray2502 I wanna ask you did you have a smell with your condition. Maybe you couldn't smell yourself but maybe someone told you or you maybe suspected a smell?”

Here you are again on Jul 16, 2014, admitting your bad breath.

“Hi dfoe43 I believe you might be right about me having bad breath.”

And again on July 16, 2014 admitting your foul odor and need more showers and regular changing of clothes!

“my main problem was people sniffing around me like I smelled bad or something so I decided I could sort of deal with that as uncomfortable as it was I would just take more showers change clothes often and avoid public places.”.

Now who is lying or possibly conflicting himself?

I’m starting to think that perhaps the claim of mental disorder is true after all for some of us… no wonder you support it coz you know have it also. One moment you say this, a minute after you refute yourself and even supported the alternative.

And a while ago you accused me of saying that you have odors. You’ve totally forgotten that you imposed it upon yourself; I was only discussing and trying to help. Sorry if didn’t help you with your bad breath. You should have tried it first to see if it works.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Hahah you make me laugh buddy your up at 2:00 am in the morning trying to make yourself feel better. Let me refresh your memory. You called that poor girl all kinds of things just for stating her opinion. yet when it comes to your views all of a sudden its your god given right. right hahah. Like I said you cant do nothing to me that life hasn't already done to me. then you say well not patm is definately not this, definately not that. You obviously have it figured out so leave us poor folks who are ignorant and dumb to try to figure out what the old great one has figured out but wont tell us. Please dude you just make yourself sound retarded.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
I can read through the lines of your writing coz I was trained once for it. You are hurt and taking things personally. Believe me I don’t intend to hurt you; I just want to make my point.

We don’t know if Tamanna is a little girl, we don’t know who he is… everyone is anonymous. How can someone (tamanna) grow up from a 9-13 yrs old girl as specified in the photo, to a 22 year old within a few months? And then writes like a well profess writer in his 40s? Do the math!

But she is not the issue, you are! And you are diverting the point of argument and looking for support. That is a sign of someone who’s hurt and losing but can’t admit it and is crying for his mama to help.

Tamanna has been posting that for months now, possible more than a year or two. It has been discussed several times.

Go back and read the forum on that discussion if you want my answer for that. I can see you are either new here or don’t keep up to date with the posts. You have been yapping about Vit D while it was discussed together with the vaccination more than a month ago. Probably next week you’ll babble about the vaccination for everyone to try and get back to us.

Also the moment you post, everyone can see it and reply so don’t complain. It’s part of discussion, grow up! If you had the guts to take that, you would have had the will to ask others about your condition and know about how they are reacting other than speculating wrongly.

I’ve had a number of people with good hearts criticising my ideas and I welcome them. I disagree with what I believe is wrong. Like yours!

I know you believe very much you have a very bad breath and very bad foul body odor so I won’t insist on changing your mind anymore. Go on believing it as I believe you now. Buy more strong mouth wash and strong antibacterial soup and buy more clothes. Continue with what you believe… that you stink so badly. I won’t discourage you from thinking that way anymore!

I’m very sorry that you stench. I agree with you, you should keep away from the public as you say… run away from people. That sounds like a good solution for yourself as you say. Keep on doing it. There is no better way for stinky people but to say away from everybody.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
There you go again trying to offend people. haha I laugh at you. you say I need support and am hurt. Captain obvious hahah. Is that not why were here or are you here to teach a class. You see ur just mad that someone like me has the guts to stand up to you a bully yes a bully. And the reason I get the better of you so easily is because I am honest with the people here and with my self. You obviously get off on offending and trying to make people trying to feel bad but this discussion with me is actually having the opposite affect on me. You see i like putting guys like you in their place and its easy for me.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
If this is not an example of everything we have to go through in our day to day life then I don't know what is. When you have a person who suppositely suffers from patm himself and he himself tries to put other patmers down by trying to neggate their opinions and not letting them state their views, and by litterally calling them names then i tell you guys what can we expect from society as a whole. Its no wonder some of us have psychological issues, like depression, thoughts of suicide, hearing voices and what not. If our own kind doesnt have compassion and if we ourselves don't understand our situation then how can we expect others to. I hope others on this blog are not like this fellow.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
I am not bullying or offending you. Don't you accept and believe what you write?

Go and read them, you wrote it yourself and I quote it above. Are you offended by your own words?

If you don't believe it then why say it.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Compassion? LOL!!! Wasn’t you who just swore at me after I thanked you a few hours ago. And when I replied, you reported me instead. Very compassionate of you!

I tried to lower the tone but you kept firing it up. Listen man, I don’t want you to feel bad! Believe me, I don’t but you keep asking me to. Why don’t we call it for the night OK. Go and have a good nite sleep, refreshen up for tomorrow, forget everything that we said, My apology! Cheers.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
I swore at you before the your post. Literally right before. It was because of what you said to that girl that upset me. I posted my post then i saw yours come in. That girl was not talking to you she was having a conversation with me. If you wanna call it a night then we can call it a night. I accept your apology and let bigons be bigons.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
why all the arguments?
We are all suffering the same.
Please do not refer me to a little girl. I found that to be quite and rather rude. Not necessarily the 'little girl' part but the way you had implied it.
I'm still suffering. And you are still because you are obviously on this forum. I just want o see an improve in our quality of life and standard of living. That's all I really want. And of course for PATM to be banished. When I do hear a cough my soul literally takes for a jump. I'm currently taking therapy with a wonderful man. He has helped me quite a bit and although he sniffles, sneezes and sometimes coughs, he has learnt to deal with it and accept that it possibly comes as a part of me, as part of my illness. This illness.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
profess writer in his 40s...lol very flattering.
No but im a 22 year old who looks a lot awfully young for her age. That is all.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
I agree with curepatmorbust. We need to come up with some reliable experimental evidence so the docs can take us seriously. I cannot even convince my wife that I have PATM, let alone my docs ! My poor baby sneezes all the time when I am at home and I am worried. I think we have the
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Ribeyes, yes I am trying vit d but only a single pill 400 UI a day. I am hesitant to go with very large doses without knowing whether I have a vit D deficiency. I am seeing my GP soon how can i convince him to test for vit D deficiency? Also which specialist is most likely to agree to do such a test? Allergist? Nutritionist?
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
sarcos - you should be able to convince your doctor to give you a vitamin D test (maybe say that you are tired and depressed all the time and haven't been getting enough sunshine).  Let us know how the test goes.  
Blank
707563_tn?1395081210
Hi everyone -

Please stop with the arguments. It is against our Terms of Use (http://www.medhelp.org/termsofuse.htm) and disrupts it for everyone else.

It also prevents you all from working together to figure this out for yourselves.

Emily
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
this is exactly the type of forum we need, thanks cpob2 for setting this up!!!
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
My pleasure! I feel ridiculous for not doing it sooner, but was hindered by several factors including the common self-deluding thought of "we'll find a cure before it's worth the effort of organizing further". Plus I wasn't sure what the adoption rate would be, and didn't want to step on the toes of MH.

Fortunately several of you voiced support which gave me enough motivation, combined with the fact that so far, MH has not removed my second post about this new place. Either someone over there has a soul, or we're lucky to be under the radar for the moment (I can't help but think the recent quarrel in this thread didn't help matters...I probably should have waited for things to cool down before posting).
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
One thing i n
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
One thing ive noticed its been happening eversince..siometimes when i walk i could here my bones like crack like its from my knees..and what i hate most is some people wen theyre with me also get it....how come...i share the little bone sound with them...anyone had same experience
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
I have like 40 for my vit d test. I guess normal range. But thething is i took vitd aboout 3 days prior my blood test. I know when  the stressfull days i had few happy moments before i had patm i took antibiotics..i had ingested prednisone for 5 days and i was in graveyrd shift working and there was this big issue in my life that kept me awake in my daylight sleeping hours like i go to work with less than 5 hours of sleep everyday.....-   viola patm. Stess lessens vit d too and too much sweets and process foods lessens immunity. I guess i had all the ingredients needed ofr the beasts to come alive.like it was planned to happen.all in the right places at the right time.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
I guess sometyms fighting is healthy......
Its normal becoz..we all our dif indivs.verbalizing is hea
Lthy. You cant please everyody.but just that sometimes u have to say it when u dont agree personally of someone..and ofcourse its ur every right to defend urself back. We just move on afterwards..after all is said..if not for saying our feelings for each other will all be robots.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
post from other site

Human Electric Energy

Nerve impulses are electrical energy signals; and, they creates energy-fields around the body and electro-magnetic energy waves that can travel away from the body.

Nerve Impulses - Electricity in the Body

Human electricity energy is generated by chemical processes in nerve cells. Billions of nerve impulses travel throughout the human brain and nervous system. A nerve impulse is a wave of electrical activity that passes from one end of nerve cell to another. Each impulse is the same size it; it is the frequency, impulses per second, that carries information about the intensity of the nerve signal.

Neurons are the basic unit of the nervous system. Neurons are responsible for sending, receiving, and interpreting information from all parts of the body.

Nervous System - Human Electrical System

The nervous system is a network of cells called neurons which transmit information in the form of electrical signals. In the brain alone there are around 100 billion and there is a similar amount in the nervous system tissues throughout the rest of the body.

Nerves for relaying information to and from the senses.
Nerves for controlling the internal functions of the body.
Nerves for muscle movement.
Nerves for thinking.

Human Magnetism - Electro-magnetic Field

As electricity passes through a metal wire it causes an energy field or magnetic field. In a similar way, human electricity in the brain and nervous system creates human magnetic fields. There are billions of nerve impulses in the body and these are constantly creating complex human magnetic fields.

The human heart is a source of electro-magnetism that, even at a few meters away, is detectable by modern scientific instruments.

Magnetic Induction- Energy Transfer

The image on the right shows an input electric current producing a magnetic field around one wire; this field passes through another wire and creates an output electric current. In physical science, this is called magnetic induction.

Similarly, to magnetic induction in metal wires, the human electromagnetic field can be felt, or can influence, other people who are standing by. From your experience, do some people create a feeling within you when you are close by?

When close to some people, you may feel as if your body and mind becomes more energised, more hopeful and optimistic.
When close to other people, you may feel as if your energy drains away, a depressing or lazy feeling.


Electricity Waves - Energy Travel over a Long Distance

Electric force can transform into different types of energy waves, such as heat, radiation, radio and micro waves; and these energy waves can travel a long distance.

A changing magnetic field will induce a changing electric field and vice-versa, the two are linked. These changing fields form electromagnetic waves. Electromagnetic waves can travel not only through air and solid materials, but also through space.

The human nervous system can create electric energy waves that can be measured with scientific instruments. The human body produces infra-red radiation that, with night vision equipment, can be seen from miles away.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
OK....and so what....I have used a dust mask in the past as an experiment and nobody I mean nobody had any reactions to me. As soon as I took it off reactions immediatly started to come back. I can tell you for a fact that in my case PATM is being released thru the air that I exhale especially when I'm talking with other people for the most part. It could also be thru pours or anus but I'm not 100% sure on that.

Try it, just say you have a sore throat if people want to know why you have it on.

When people start talking about that it could possibly be a pyschological problem then that's where I draw the line. I don't know maybe some people have developed some kind of complex that lead to a pyschological issue.

All I know is that I can be around people all day long but as soon as I open my mouth PATM reactions begin. They are minimal compared to 6 months ago but they are still there.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Sorry eckiuME23, I take my apology back because I haven’t done anything wrong. I did it because I thought you’d compromise. That’s what I call compassion. But with that kind of unpleasant attitude, no one would accept it. Seriously man, I think you have an attitude and need to get over it.

Yes, I do believe you have ORS as you indicated in your postings and you’ll have to deal with it on your own way.

And even though you don’t know it now because you have a lot to learn, we will have to find a cure for patm as the first phase of our conundrum but there’s a second phase, we have to erase “Odor Reference Syndrome” label from our name afterwards. You don’t worry about that because you don’t understand its implication for you and your kids yet. And it’s because of people thinking like you that we’d have an additional worrisome on top to deal with later. Thinking like what? Thinking that you have a very bad breath & body odor despite the insistence of your medical professionals and your loved ones that it doesn’t exist.

@Tamanna99 – I hear what you saying but I don’t in any way know for sure who you are. You could be anyone as we can all create multiple profiles in any seconds. But anyway, ever since you came online I noticed you kept insisting that we admit that our problem is caused by mental illness despite the denial of many members. That is offensive to me because you’re indirectly implying that everyone here in this forum is a loony.

If that is true, you are also implying that this forum shouldn’t have been created. Why? Because that is what doctors have said in the first place. Why create a forum when the answers have been spelled out clearly by doctors on a verbal diagnosis! PATMers created this forum because they doubted their physicians diagnoses vs  the evidence that they see. I will disagree with that idea forever because it makes no sense in regards to our cause and its threatening to our future too.

And you are implying that everyone should be on medication like yourself, whom you’ve informed us that you have been mentally unstable from childhood with all kind of mentally diagnosed illnesses and have been taking meds ever since. That implies that we are also mental patients like yourself and should take meds too. That is very offensive to me. Please go back and read your posts if you’ve forgotten.

But then you are not cured after all these years from the meds and psychotherapy, right, otherwise you wouldn’t be here! Unless you have some other reasons.

And also, there is a big problem too that needs explanation! How reliable is information from someone whom have had multiple mental disorder since childhood? If you were in our shoes, would agree that is very unreliable? I mean I have seen patients with only one mental problem since childhood and there’s just no hope of communication.

But from what I’ve read in your writings, it appears of someone much older than your age and not mentally ill. Therefore there are many conflicts in your claims and supposition.

Despite all that, let me make my point clear. I disagree with Halitosis & Body Odor as explanation to patm. I also disagree totally with mental illness as an explanation to patm. Both of the above ideas gave us “Odor Reference Syndrome”, a plague that we will have to deal with later.

Sorry guys but I will disagree with these ideas forever as it will lead us nowhere but keep us in an infinite loop permanently.

I have a feeling you’d probably ask what’s my idea instead. I’ve posted so many times and you won’t miss it. Others have done the same. Approach medical professionals and scientists and beg for help; don’t stop and don’t give up pestering them.

That’s what ray2505 and some of the members are doing. That’s what I’m doing and that’s what we should all be doing. And continue inputting information on going progress and new ideas. It is hard but that’s the only solution.

I congratulate those that have approached their physicians and medical experts to continue to pursue this problem. In particular ray2505 and others. I remember someone was prescribed antiviral.. I doubt it lasted but the info is important. She must have enjoyed a few weeks without patm and that’s important information because so far we understand that the causation of patm responds to only to 5 things so far: antifungals, antibiotics, antiviral drugs and vaccination and other pathogens. And it tends to resist after a certain amount time. It responds to only a few selections of these anti-pathogenic drugs. If that’s reliable enough then that is the most important information that we’ve gathered so far.

Anyways, there is only one door out of the patm prison… scientific research! The solution will come from the medical community! So we have to be persistent in pursuing them and also provide them with what we have already to aid them in the right direction. Have a nice day everyone!
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Tamanna9 – come on girl or whoever you are, admit it. Are you a psychiatrist or student? I just read your post Jul, 28 2014. Despite my disbeliefs, I took it to a roommate who’s doing a Masters in psychiatry and he said you are most likely one or guided by one. Following is your post. He said it’s almost like it was taken from a psychology/psychiatry questionnaire. He said it appears you were evaluating eckiuME23 and he also believes you are not who say you are.
I told him about your multiple mental disorder profile and he almost shook his head off and said you are definitely not by judging your writing skills. He said all the patients that he has seen are totally incommunicable lunatics but are not as bad as your profile. So with your description, he said you shouldn’t have even be writing proper sentences at all, and using a computer is for him is impossible.
He confirmed my doubts all these years. The good side, he said only good things about you and your approach. To my dismay, he agrees and encourages what you’re doing.

“When someone coughs before and during I hear screaming
'go away'
'leave me alone'
'no ones thinking about you' - I don't get this one anymore but I use to (these are all repetitive thoughts and in some sense very intrusive).
'shut up'
'**** off' ”

So with that said, I have nothing against that, as you have every right to do so because you think we are sick mentally and want to help, however I would have like it if you were clean and open in the first place. I mean no disguises in your intentions would have been better… and don’t pretend to be a patmer anymore is much more comfortable for me. Now that we know who you are, let’s just discuss openly. It’s good to debate on a number of issues, and I welcome your presence if you admit it. I wish to discuss in a civil manner. I know you have good intentions so I welcome them.

By the way, I discuss my problem with other friends of mine.... they are open-minded. I believe you are too.

My first question for you would be, why did you think patm is a psychological disorder? I mean what’s the most convincing evidence that made you think that way about us?

Please ask me questions so we can debate this thing and hopefully come up some resolution or at least shed light on what is patm. Thanks.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Are you a psychiatrist or student
lol....again very flattering I but if I check now I can still see that I am in fact a 22 year old young woman.
I wish to god I was a student, at least i'd be able to get my degree and study like I have always hoped for.
....Or a psychiatrist...I mean holding down a stable job....that's one of my dreams and goals and ambitions.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Dfoe43 you were right about your comments earlier on about tammanna99 and then which led you to having an argument with eckiuME23. Your analysis of her was right with maybe the exception of your last comment, she is definitely not a psychiatrist . Let me explain……
Many many months ago I phoned her as she lives in London as so do I, my intention for phoning her was so we could discuss patm, have some understanding and support for each other, bounce of ideas etc etc
But when I rang her she passed it over to her father, who interrogated me for a little bit, then passed the phone back to her. I tried to have a conversation with her but she was pushing/forcing her ideas on me and not listening to me at all or not letting me view my opinion. She described her experiences and what she’s going through. She was on some sort of mental medication at the time and having I think some professional help. Maybe if I remember correctly she was under some kind of watch/supervision, but not 100% sure. But anyway, I never phoned her back because I thought she was not helping at all and didn’t get a good feeling about her. Only has her thoughts and 1 tracked not helping the cause of patm. I thought she was ‘possessed’ or something. I never rang her back again, then weeks later she rang me back and started ranting/lecturing and being weird again, at which point I politely asked her not to phone me back, which she agreed to. I really don’t want to offend her but I think she has issues that are even more than patm. She may have patm but she has a host of other deep problems with her too. I think she can communicate well in writing where she excels in but definitely not verbally or probably in any other way. I think she is ‘bit off’ or don’t have the correct marbles! she probably has psychological/mental issues too which are disturbing, she hears voices etc etc. I did not want to comment earlier to say you are right but did not want arguments all over this place. Tammanna9 I don’t mean to disrespect you but this is just my honest opinion. I think she can be intelligent yet at the same time not with it, if that makes sense.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Thank you for your honestly @StayStrongForever – thank you for sharing the information. That was reassuring as I knew there was something fishy about her story. As the psychiatrist said to me she was either one herself or guided by one. I see now that she is guided by someone. Poor girl. I understand now… let’s leave her alone. @Tamana9 – god bless you. I’m sorry that you had to go through in life with so many problems.

@All - BTW, I just came back from a Lab session and everybody was doing OK… not as bad as yesterday. I noticed that if I take a high dose of probiotics, it works but only for a few days and I have to refrain from it for a few days before trying again. It’s a strange problem as it seems to adapt to anything we throw at it.

This could be a chronic condition similar IBS, crohns, TMAU etc but its responses to anti-pathogenic drugs that make it unique. It’s explicitly pointing to pathogenic involvement. It’s the hardest problem I’ve ever faced in life. But don’t worry we are in this together and we’ll find our way out! Am heading out for another lecture…. Good day everyone!
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
I have an attitude problem? Dude just drop it already.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
You don't know me personally so don't throw accusations at me. Yeah, so we had a five minute convo. where you appeared half dead and I did most of the speaking. What exactly is your point? and what are you trying to get at? It seems to me PATM had gone straight through your head and isn't able to find a way out. I don't mean to be so crude but your comments came across very well lets just say the weren't very nice. Why don't we all have a conversation together so we can see who is off. Your description seems to resonate well with you  so i'm not sure why you're fighting with me here. anyway I don't want to hear from you again. You don't know me and to be honest I am extremely articulate for my age - yes verbally!
I do have a host of other problems, you are correct on that - and that my problem is you!
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
also since you are from London will you be willing to meet up? Or will your real identity and true to who you are come across so poor as to suck all your words up.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
thanks for the concerns.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
for those who wonder if there's a body odor. yes there is. its really simple. like i said many post before. this bacterial infection goes from ur nose to ur stomach and there is where all the problems are. when this mix of mucus and bacteria hits ur gut. ur stomach tries to digest it which then creates  gas. many of us have GERD thas because our stomach needs all that extra acid to digest all the fluids. then this gas its  realised thru ur anus with no feeling whatsoever.  this gas or whatever substance  travels extremly far distance and its foul smell. lots of u have said that u noticed a bad smell when this patm started, well the reason u dont smell it anymore  because over time ur brain and nose adapts to odors, i dont remember what is call but look it up its a real thing. so there. i would like to get into more detail about this. but i really dont like typing that much.  i live in los angeles and i will be willing to meet with any of u that r close by to share info and talk about this. or send me a message maybe we can exchange phone numbers like i have done with other member of this community.
DFO43 ur really a piece of work man. i really dont like the way u talk to others. this forum was created to share knowledge and not to feel that ur the smart guy that knows all the answers. ORS whatever man ur just in denial u mentioned that u cant even eat dinner with others. because they will get up and have to bark or leave. do u think thats just because ur giving them allergies???? jajajaja its beacuse of the smell ur relasing they feel disgusted by it. im certanly not crazy im a really smart individual that has pint pointed the cause of this illness in my body. and i know for a fact that theres a smell asocciated with it the end.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
yes i bought the vit d. im taking 1 dose of 10 000 everyday i got it at a natural store near my house . im doing the nasal irrigation with the GSE and let me tell u. i have notice a drastic change,  im very conscious about my nasal dripping. and by the second day it had lower so much. its not def solution but its helping alot.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
ur an outstanding person man!!! posting about a private conversation u had with another member. and what a post. wow . another piece of work. what a shame..
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Does any of you have any other health problem? I'm curious if we could identify other symptoms that we all have in common.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Ikarigera – The difference between you and me is that I’m a science person. I don’t speculate but rely heavily on proofs. Speculation is only done when there is no way to prove something.

I don’t know who you are but if you had the will to know your problem, you’d ask those that are allergic to you first before concluding. There is no better way to learn the truth but from the horse’s mouth, which means there is no better way to know whether people are allergic to you etc etc. then to ask allergic victims themselves. Who told you that patm (you) is caused by your stinkiness? Bring him to this forum, also take him to your doctor as proof!

Do you think you have the guts to do that? If you can, the results will surprise you… you wouldn’t come here to ask and speculate anymore. You’d know straight from that person. Now if you don’t trust anyone, perhaps your family, loved ones etc. then who will you trust? I know you don’t smell it either. No one in the world smells it other than your brain!

Try this; ask your siblings first, then your cousins why they are allergic. Build your confidence then ask everyone else. You will surprise yourself. I do understand you are new to this problem and just starting to explore some of the underlying details.

I guess you don’t read my post thoroughly, so lack many things but here is just two hints.

First of all, no doctor on earth has admitted to any odor from patmers but yes to halitosis and all odor problems etc. No instrument in the world has detected your invisible odor despite its super sensitivity. No one has admitted smelling that kind of odor to you! You haven’t smelled it either! If you did you would know precisely how to explain it to your doctor and he’d find that area in your body that emits it and stick his microscope in it to see what’s happening underneath. The reasons why you are speculating coz you yourself don’t even smell yourself and is guessing wildly based on what you presume is happening. Why guess while you can find it for yourself.

With the public sewer in your city, do you see the surrounding towns coughing and sneezing? They have more gas and poo than you produce in one hundred years. But do you see workers get sick, sniffle, cough and sneeze etc. They don’t!!!! Why!

If you understood all that, you’d know that your reasoning is beyond silliness.

By the way, for your information all humans’ farts and all anuses smell. It’s a biological fact, And its something that we don’t want to talk about coz it’s a fact and its very embarrassing to mention. Do you see people cough, sneeze, and sniffle when they go to bathroom or public toilet? Your story about your anus’ stench etc is just humiliating to hear. I really do hope that you didn’t tell your family that your anus stinks and it’s the source of your problem and unsociability – coz if I were your father I’d be ashamed. I really feel sorry for you because I know your family must be going through a hard time.

Actually there are things that can cause symptoms almost identical to the reaction that we see in people but I’ll let do your homework and find it for yourself.  But we don’t know if it’s the source of our problem though – let alone possible.

ORS - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olfactory_reference_syndrome. Yes, unfortunately.. you are classified in that category. Go read the above definition, who knows it might help you out. Ask your doctor too. Given enough time and that you build the courage to ask you’ll be fine. If you read it, it describes exactly the hallucination that you’ve just described to us. It’s sad but I’m afraid it’s the truth. The good news is, you’re not the only with this false belief. A large majority believes this and that’s how WHO recognises it. OK.. enough of discussion.. I have to study. Good luck.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Be fair!

One is revealing private conversation while the other is threatening to reveal private identity. They are either both wrong or both right. How do you judge? With one eye open and one eye closed?
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Tammanna99 I didn’t mean to cause offence with my comments but I had to do what I had to do and obviously see why you did not like them. At the moment, I am not willing to meet up with you because I know what I will be letting myself in for and not because of ‘your real identity and true to who you are come across so poor as to suck all your words up’.

Ikarigera – yeah I see what you mean about the private conversation, I don’t make it a habit to do this sort of thing, but I had to expose tammanna99 for what I knew of her. I think she has other problems and is not helping the cause of patm whatsoever.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Well said! I admire your courage to tell truth at the same time still give her the respect that she deserves. I admire that very much. Thank you!

@all - I was hoping that everyone in this forum will be as brave and to extend it further. Be brave and ask those that are allergic to you to help identify what/why they are allergic. It's only difficult for a second but your bravely will save you years of speculation.

Am working on an assignment so I'll be out of touch for a while. Good luck.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
I take 5000 UI of Vitamin D3 each day.  research on youtube and google. God bless you always !!!!
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Hi grateful2011...How are things for you now? Are you 100% free after the dietary changes, supplements, etc? I'm one month into diet and have seen improvements, but still have a ways to go. Thanks for what you contribute to this forum.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Thanks for your contribution to the forum. For some, there is a smell component that has nothing to do with hygiene. For others, there is only the allergic reactions that they trigger from people around them. It is also possible that some ppl are suffering from other conditions in addition to PATM. Either way, the malodor issue is real and not in one's head, especially if they have impeccable hygiene and it's quite obvious from whispers, body language and ridicule that there is an offensive odor. If someone hasn't gone through it, they're likely going to be apathetic or deny that the problem exists.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
The odor component is real. I have both. It may be TMAU, a metabolic disorder. Children's Hospital Arkansas  has a test for this disorder
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
It appears some people are experiencing other symptoms, that's why i asked everyone to list their other symptoms.

PATM is probably not a disease but a symptom, just like body odor. Some people get only 1 symptom (patm), other may get several symptoms(?).  But one symptom (body odor) is not the cause of another symptom (PATM). Maybe they're correlated, maybe not, who knows? But PATM isn't caused by B.O.  Please learn the difference between correlation and causation.

I strongly believe there are other symptoms some of us have in common. Although maybe discussing these other symptoms is off-topic since this is a PATM forum, not a B.O forum.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Man dude you're still causing problems? man I've had it up to here with you. You are one sorry little person. I think you're the most dishonest one here. You are a walking contradiction. You say " well I don't know what I have" but then you say " well I know its not this and I know its not that". You don't know anything. Then you say that you've suppositely have had patm for a lot longer than some of us and that we all have a lot to learn from you ( yeah right), but if thats the case then the person who has a lot to learn is you because your way has not been working obviously. Then you say, "you guys should have the guts to ask those around you" but then you say to me " we don't know anybody on this forum, we cant trust anybody on this forum, they might be CIA for all we know" What? Then you go off on this god forsaken rant on this girl who did nothing to you. You actually go as far as saying that you had a roomate psych student of yours analyze her, which I don't know how you go about from some paragraphs on a blog? that must be some sort of pseuscience. But who does that? For someone who is so brave and sure of himself you sure are acting really paranoid. I don't know about you but when I read the post the last thing on my mind is, Oh CIA agent, or Oh psychiatrist, WHAT? And for a man of supposite science, not a very good one, You sure blow off quite a bit of leads. Discredit them opon reading them not very scientific. If it were me I wouldn't care if a monkey or a penguine logged on, as long as they had something to contribute or interesting the I would here them out.


you don't know , you don't know.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Hi well as for me My B.O lead to patm I had the odor long before I had patm so it might not be causation but its pretty darn clost in my case. I believe that what ever is causing one is causing another. Lets not judge people and let them speak their mind. Lets not be another dfoe, that guy is a fool.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
I never said either condition was caused by the other. I just emphasized the reality that both conditions exist and some ppl are experiencing both simultaneously. I don't know the true cause of either and don't claim to be an expert.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
i wouldnt open my mouth if i didnt know what i was talking about.  as far as asking others, trust me im a man not a clown like u. i have asked my family and close friends. thats why im so sure of the cause of this issue. let me tell u, alot of ppl would deny it because its embarrasing for them to even tell u but people that care about u if they see that u r really serius about it. they will tell u the truth. i dont know why u got so mad.was it because i mentioned u dont eat dinner with others??? why is that?? pls enlight me science person. is it just because they get runny nose and sniffles. dont be ridiculous.i could care less if ppl sniff and get runny nose around me. u know why u dont eat with others u r just in denial. because u know if u admit that theres more than runny noses and sniffles u will be categorised crazy.. AND OH HELP ME GOD dfoe43 which i think stands for "the fool" cannot be crazy omg an educated person and a science guy no way!! monkeys will start writing in forums before that. mmmm hold on i think that already happened.lol . ur just a selfish and greedy individual who doesnt care for others and wants all the attention as simple as that. ur a clown!! real talk.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Ok guys lets move on.

I had a very wierd day today. You know those days when you have very little reactions and you almost believe that you might be getting better. Weird. Cuz I haven't done anything different. I always had a doubt if it was in my clothes but i wore the same clothes I always do. The only two differences I noticed today was that I was sweeting a lot at work, but then again i always sweat a lot. So maybe am sweating out the bad element? but if that were the case wouln't I get reactions while my body is discarting these elements. Who knows. So the only other difference today was that I was stressing a lot less today. I decided to go with the flow and say you know what, whatever if it is then let it be. But could this calming and relaxing be what caused my reactions to diminish. its strange. I even went into a couple restautants today and not that many reactions. In the first one at lunch time only a couple at the end. That could of been them coughing for another reason though. And in the second one after work nothing only a couple minor ones where its usually everybody and really loud.  

Strange
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
There are a lot of people who thinks B.O / bad breath is the cause of PATM. Good to know you're not one of them. I've talked to some of these people, I've tried explaining to them that bad odors don't make people cough, they just won't listen.

I know somebody who's had patm for like 10 years, she thinks she makes people cough because she has bad breath, when nobody has ever told her she has bad breath.  The bad breath forum is full of these people. There are many many people with PATM but they're not on this forum, they're on bad breath / b.o forums. It's crazy ! ! !  These people never bothered to ask their friends why they cough, they jump to conclusions thinking they smell bad.

If any of you want to verify what i just said, go to a bad breath or body odor forum and search for 'cough', you'll find many threads discussing coughs/sneeze/etc yet they never mention 'patm'. Of all the PATM sufferers in the world, maybe just a few of us, like 1%, actually 'get it'. It's crazy!
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Glad you had a good day! I think stress plays a big role in PATM, as it does in many illnesses. I know for me, years of stress definitely aggravated my symptoms. I now try to do something that is a stress reducer at least once a day (exercise, watching my fav movie, laughing with a good friend, etc.). I also think sweating is a good thing as we release toxins through sweat. Perhaps ppl don't react to sweat because the toxins are wet in opposed to dry and airborne like dust particles? I don't know. Whatever the reason, I'm glad your PATM took a day off. Have you started the Vit D yet?
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
for people with the BO (not the sweat kind, but more like the ****/fart smelling kind), have you ever tried detox diets? any effective? :(
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
no I was going to but I think am going to start it tomorrow. you see I work with my uncles and we drink a lot at work so it isn't easy to just say no and I know people shouln't drink while on any medication or supplement I believe so I'm working up to it. I got the pills though starting tomorrow. Hopefully that works 2
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
It isn't that simple. People don't know what they smell like. Sometimes people don't know they smell at all. It takes somebody pointing it out for them. That was my case I knew there was something wrong with me but I din't know smell was a part of it till some jerks at my old job made it very clear to me. I get about 3 or 4 smells once in a while that I can't pinpoint. there not there all the time I can only smell them sometimes and they are so different from each other. So it makes it that much more difficult. I believe is the case for me anyway that I might have an additional condition that cause some of these smells but it all might be related you know. Maybe bacteria from different parts of your body or different bacteria smell different who knows.

A detox diet, no not a very strict one. You think this could help?
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
eckiuME23 -  Isn't it strange!?  I definitely notice a connection to PATM and stress.  It's AMAZING how quickly PATM can come and go and come back again.  I could be totally relaxed and be PATM free for hours, then I remember PATM and get social anxiety then bam, almost instantaneously the sneezing and coughing begin.  

Just so you know, Vitamin D is safe to take even if you are drinking.  

I have been taking high doses of Vitamin D for 7 days now.  I still have PATM but there have been other changes:  I feel calmer, I am sleeping more and my sleep is very deep and restful, my tongue is usually blotchy and white but it is clearing up for the first time in months, it's no longer blotchy, only a little pale.  My mouth doesn't taste bad anymore (it had been tasting bad for a few months).  I believe that the Vitamin D is boosting my immune system to fight off infection.  It can take a few months for Vitamin D levels to become restored in the body so I'm going to stick with it.  I'm eating healthier too and attempting to work out more.  I also stopped wearing sunglasses and go in the sun for 2 hours a day.  
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Its very sad to see where this forum has gone too. I've been checking out this forum for 3 years hoping and praying on a cure and I believe we where going to the right direction with the old forum names but know I look and see people arguing, disrespecting, humiliating others you don't even know, about some if you got patm or not,who the f*** cares (really) im trying to find a dang cure not look on here and see idiocy people argue back and forth . I swear they need to delete you new forum m********** seriously, you think anybody is going to write or say anything on here with you replying back to their already messed up lives with more bull****. It makes no sense I gotta signup just to get this forum back to where it normally was without these new m********** talking crazy (sad).People we need to nevermind these people or they will make us more miserable. Do Not condone these people I say Do Not condone these people we know who they are. Let these mother******* rot off this forum alone people
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
I have patm I don't care if you think I do or don't so don't talk about it cause trust me I wouldn't be on this forum definitely if I wasnet listening to the s*** I heard. But im a go thru my analysis on patm myself so we can get to what started this or what can cure this. I have 4 options that could have started patm 1) I was drinking heavy beer I mean heavy beer it could be some type of yeast thing. 2) some non cooking woman fixed some non cooked thanksgiving food in which my eating a** ate and it could have caused some type bacteria to my stomach cause oh lord my stomach been going thru some thangs (The toilet stay messed up). 3) I was spending the night a lot at one of my friends house at a apartment in which I believe they previously had a dog living in their cause a girl came over and said it had fleas but we looked crazy like what we don't see any fleas like it had to be a joke but I was sleeping on the floor a lot and maybe something got over my body or in it or to my thought I believe something has gotten into my nose and infected it. 4) This is still at my friend new apartment when I first remember coming around their it was some kind of smell around in that area but it didn't look like everybody could smell it or had a problem with it but I noticed the weird type **** smell around the area but later on I couldn't smell it anymore so im thinking maybe its got immune to my body or my nose and done something to me (don't know). I truly believe this USA government has some type of chemical or gas in some areas we mostly cant read or smell cause when I notice I had patm and I worked at FedEx it was something triggering my patm in which I could smell the weird smell myself (very weird smell I hated smelling it), in which I left the job, I no longer could smell the weird smell after a month or so from being around that area. I believe this government has something to do with this weird patm we have cause this whole world was built off evil so I couldn't even take nothing away.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Hi all the infamous POGO is back after a several-month hiatus

Been on high doses of VitD since monday - app 2000iU a day, should take some time and be patient. The last few months, without the VitD have been very moderate. In stadiums, at restaurants I've gotten the odd cough, sneeze but I brush it off as nothing important. Its when it was relentless I'd go mad. I've had this devilish condition for 3 years and only of recent has it decided to take part leave. One thing i must say is take an example - i know its happened to all of us - you chilling in a restaurant and there have perhaps  been few to no reactions. So. You've now been given some reprieve and thus the preoccupation with PATM all but vanishes. While in that healthier state of mind, you still are consciously or subconsciously cognisant of PATM (lets not lie guys). While chatting to your friend lets say 90% of your focus is on said friend and the remaining 10 is allocated to the PATM-*******. You think that with things going so well, a cough, grunt, etc wont affect you at all. But, then suddenly a huge reaction or 3 occurs somewhere in the restaurant and your anxiety levels climb up to say 20%.
And the rest is history until you leave the restaurant and within say 10min you feeling relieved and in the right state of mind that one desires. How many of you can relate to this, and please could you state your coping strategies??? I practice mindfulness every day, just focusing on the beauty of breathing and gym a few times a week so this combined with  VitD intake is my side of combating/lessening PATM. Please I'd love to hear your views.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
and my diet is good++
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
I was also sleeping better when my patm was mostly gone. I'd like to think that wasn't a coincidence. Now that i've been on Vit.D again for more than a week now, my patm is reduced by about 50%. Back in june, it was more than 50%, maybe because i was spending more time in the sun getting more Vit.D.

Try getting more sunlight, at least one hour a day if you can, see if it helps your health even more :)
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Last post from me tonight on my experiment with this s***. Im going to tell everything that goes on with me or has gone on with me. I did have bad breath I had tonsil stones in which even my dad uset to get on me saying my breath smelled like s***. Before I got patm I did have a lot of stress going on at the time in which I drank a lot cause my life was horrible. I used to smoke a lot of weed back in the day until one day weed totally made my whole mindset crazy. I was hearing voices, evil thougts, and a lot of panic from what I thought people was saying (Real Talk) just like somebody else said on this forum in which somebody said he or she is crazy right, well yeah right this is real life look what we got (patm) so be subject to belief. But the weed thing is over after like 6 or 7 years of feeling tired and dazed and that was horrible experience but got thru it though. But this patm does go through the phone too cause I have talked to some woman over the phone trying to get in some draws and they was saying they was itching on the forehead like crazy (I said oh my god) but this is all real talk. Everytime I get my nose close into a cup or something I keep smelling something like a dog or something that's how I know my nose has to be contaminated or something. If it wasnet for the forum member who told me about the tea tree oil thang I would probably be at my worsteds right now so I thank you teatreeoilisthecure forum member I owe you a lot you saved me cause it aint cure it but it sholl got me through these days not being too bad. So whats in tea tree oil in which I think we should study cause it does help maybe we kind find something into that. Well I have to go to work in my slave a** job and allergic my co-worker but its not to bad cause he's kind of uset to it and I gotta make some money to keep trying to eat healthy in which I hate of all this patm bullcrap could of made me do. But i'll get back at you tomorrow everybody be blessed and trust me this patm has made me more with jesus more than ever by being strong and happy thru any situation the devil trys to bring us down so be blessed people stay strong we will find this cure quick (WE WILL FIND THIS CURE BEFORE I DIE).
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
happy thursday  seekinganswers3000 !


sooo glad u are getting better too !  yes, still  patm free  - I know u agree it is so priceless and freeing to be able to be around and walk by people without  getting any - coughing, sneezing , rubbing noses-- !!!!

- thanx to my choice  to detox body , at least 80% plant based food choices, supplements each day

No gluten,no sugar ( stevia instead), no meat ,no dairy , no fast  or junk foods


thank you for your kindness and God's continued best to you always !
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
welcome back !


my coping strategies  I have used when I would get reactions are many, i would do whichever one or more that were available to me at the time - and upon realizing I was the cause  of the "reaction" - to remove myself  from the place if possible:

oregano oil (p73 on label) capsules, go to a sauna, take my probiotics, take my l-glutamine powder, take omega 3 , water with lemon

thanx to  Ribeyes we must  take our Vitamin D3 each day for excellent help !!!

God's contnued best to you always !!!
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
In case anyone missed it, here's the newly-created PATM discussion forum:

patm boards net

(Can’t post the actual link on here, so place periods between the 3 words listed above to form the address)

Several of you have already created an account but seem shy or hesitant to participate. Many forums when new (like the famous Reddit) get their momentum by creating a bunch of “fake” accounts and posting under them to make it look like the forum is active (causing new people to sign up and participate). FYI, I do not agree with this practice, at least for our cause, which is why the forum is currently still bare. It’s up to each of you to make the transition.

If you’re wondering why the new forum might be better than this place, some simple reasons include organized/threaded discussion, ability to create polls and have users vote on them, custom fields tied to user accounts such as how many years they’ve had PATM, plus at-a-glance status of what’s new since your last visit. Oh, and the ability to post links!

I won’t be offended if you all decide to not use the forum, but if that’s the case I urge someone else to create something similar/better for us. We outgrew this MH thread long ago. Time has proven we most likely won’t cure this thing with a massive and disorganized single thread of discussion. Like others have mentioned, we’re currently lacking a reputable community that we can point doctors and researchers to.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
i signed up, and i want to post my story (all of which has been told here in bits and pieces over the past two years), but it takes me a while to get in the "mood" to think about this in such a comprehensive way (the story), rather than just respond every now and then here...

i want to transition fully to your forum, it is far superior than this long thread, and is so complete that i don't think anybody could come up with something better, you even have a place for people to make suggestions to make it better!



Blank
Avatar_m_tn
I'm 100% with you that we need a kind of professional place, which acts as our headquarter a central contact point for us sufferers and the medical professionals. What do you think of joining forces in that matter? Since a long time I also planned to create a portal with all community functions we could need and which help us on our journey to finding the mythical cure and root of this evil. There are already some vague ideas prepared, but I never had the courage and time to finish and publish that all.

However I messaged you my email address via PN. It'd be really great if you'd be interested!
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Thank you, I have started taking 5,000 IU. As of now I notice that PATM reaction have reduced; however, not completely.

As for health problems I have been on the  borderline of pre-hypertenstion (high blood pressure). I'm only 20 Yr old.

I also have a deviated septum and I have dermatitis on my face once in a while.

Lastly, I have a class 3 under bite which is in the progress of treatment. I have braces on now. And the last procedure that the doctor said I would need is a underbite jaw surgery to fix everything.

Blank
Avatar_m_tn
@soiledsystem: I hear you on the intimidating scope of telling such a story. One good thing to know is I have post editing enabled, which allows you to add and modify content in your posts as you see fit. I know I edited my "intro" several times already, and am still not done!

@mrbaleine: I'm definitely interested in hearing your thoughts and encourage you to post them publicly. That way others will have a chance to contribute, too. I know what it's like to form an incomplete idea and then sit on it forever, but I recommend just biting the bullet and releasing what you have. Just remember making any amount of progress on this thing always feels better than taking no action or waiting for "tomorrow", and nobody here should negatively judge an incomplete idea (unless they're offering complete ideas themselves!)
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Thanks Grateful,

I'm gonna try and up my dose of vitD, nearly finished my 500iu pack so will enquire about at least 1000iu tablets - don't know how far it goes, alternatively i can pump 10 tablets down which is a dread given my gag reflex (even though i know how to combat it). as for the food/supplements i take omega 3/6/9, cut sugar totally from my diet although I'm confused whether fructose is bad too compared to sucrose as im a sucker for fruits. use stevia alot, mostly don't give a damn and just have hot water and lemon or tea straight. Eliminated dairy, cut gluten to as much as possible , pro-biotics complete, oregano oil done. As for high doses of plant-based food I can see myself struggling. Meat is a toughy for me, i become lethargic without it. As for the whole sauna thing, I choose to rather have an extremely hot bath with a towel over most of my body, add epsom salts sometime Another question? Bread. someone previously stated that brown bread is ok. Wholeweet = gluten. Rye bread ok? The issue here is yeast.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
great choices and actions, congratulations !

   no bread or fructose ( or any other names for artificial sugar: dextrose,sucrose etc) for me!  

I use Stevia mostly and sometimes-  raw manuka honey.

yes, yes, yes to Vitamin D3  and probiotics every day !!!!!!
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Hi all,

Hope you've had a good summer!  I haven't been on here in awhile.  As many of you know, I used a supplement called Oxy Powder to drastically reduce my PATM problem.  It was a lifesaver.  However, it did not take care of the problem 100% -- more like 98% or so.  I still saw people scratch every once in awhile.

Well, I'm glad to say that for the past few months, I've been at 100%!  How did I do it?  Well, I started taking the following two supplements:

1) Saccharomyces boulardii (a probiotic, from Jarrow Formulas) -- I took 2 pills 3 times a day
2) Spanish Black Radish (Swanson) -- I took 1 pill 2 times a day

Both supplements are specifically known to fight candida (which was the cause of my PATM) and promote the growth of good bacteria.  I had taken a different probiotic before (Ortho Biotic), but I don't think it helped much.

I think I noticed a difference after about 3 weeks of taking each.  You should give them a try!

Blank
Avatar_m_tn
wow, Saccharomyces boulardii ! ! !

That is so interesting, i googled the name and it says it's a strain of yeast.

I mentioned before i had found something that improved my patm about a year ago but i gave up on it because it was too costly.. that something is BLUE CHEESE, it would reduce my patm by like 50% instantly.  Blue cheese contains a strain of fungus called penicillium (many antibiotics are made from Penicillium).

Not all fungi are bad, same as not all bacteria are bad, so don't let the fact that it's a fungus like candida scare you

i believe there are beneficial strains of fungus that battles candida/harmful fungus (which could be the root cause of patm). I really want to try Saccharomyces boulardii now. Thank you. Guys, try blue cheese, you'll see less patm instantly but it's soo expensive :(

Blank
Avatar_m_tn
I'll go buy Saccharomyces boulardii tomorrow at a local store if they carry it.

I think Vit.D just boosts our immune system but the underlying cause of patm still remains which is why Vit.D doesn't eliminate patm completely. The combination of vitamins and beneficial fungus might do the trick to eliminate patm completely. This is mad science but what else is there to try anyway?
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Just curious... Does anyone's PATM cause people to break out (hives, rashes, etc.)?
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
welcome back hopeful , so glad u are thriving !

Congratulations on being PATM free and God bless you for sharing two new supplements that have helped you - u rock and I love your integrity !!!


I will add these two supplements to my daily choices in continuing to remain PATM free !

peace and joy always
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
hey man i'd like to apolagize to u. i acted very inmature, i feel like this illness is taking the best of me.we should not be wasting time fighting and rather trying to help each other. i hope u understand, im stressed and ur probably 2. no hard feelings whatsoever from my part. :D
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
"Not all fungi are bad, same as not all bacteria are bad, so don't let the fact that it's a fungus like candida scare you...i believe there are beneficial strains of fungus that battles candida/harmful fungus (which could be the root cause of patm)."

You are right!  I was concerned about Sacc Boul being a form of yeast, but as you said, it is a beneficial kind rather than harmful.  Further, it is better than a lot of other probiotics because it can survive passage through stomach acid in order to get to the intestine.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Thanks, grateful2011; great to hear from you again!!  All the best.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
I totally agree with you ribeyes, my patm has been dramatically reduced because of my dietary changes. We all know that it can be hard to gain weight in the patm/candida diet so I tried to find a way to gain weight in a healthy way. The first thing that came to mind was dairy so began to do research and found out about AGED CHEESE, it contains many nutrients and tons of beneficial bacteria. I began to eat Swiss cheese aged of course and within a few weeks my patm dramatically reduced along with a healthy diet. Enough so that I can hang out with friends and go out in public with minimal reactions almost to none. I encourage every one to research aged cheese. It can be a bit expensive but totally worth every penny and have a peace of mind when out in society.  
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
just want to encourage everyone out there.  keep lifting yourself up!  we will all be okay.  don't isolate yourself.  it's not your or our fault.  keep achieving your goals and loving your life, love who you are.  patm is asking us to live our lives to the fullest.  
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
hi hopefull, do you stay on  oxy powder everyday or was it a one time thing, and how much do you take a day?
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Hi want_to_live_life,

When I first began taking it for PATM I would take it everyday.  I would take 4 pills right before going to bed.  I don't take it on a regular basis now, but every once in awhile I will take some (maybe once every two weeks) just to clean out my colon (it's a colon cleanser).
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
What a positive outlook. :)
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
I'm really glad you're interested in hearing my thoughts on that! Following your suggestion I created a post at patm . boards . net in the meta forum section. Hope to get some feedback from you and everyone else.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
hy guys which hand u using daily bacis try to change iam right hand but few days I am using only left hand it help our stress
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
i guess we have to maximize ways on enjoyin ourlives . At the same time I know probably patm is teaching us to undo somethings we are used to doing ourselves like self doubt, too much sensitiveness about everthing around us....food addictions due to being a loner...//being tense at little things.little faith to no faith in God...i guess we all have our own afflictions in life.that we need to enjoy life more. i dont know just have a gut feeling that its telling us something somehow.=)
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Yes, I am so comfortable in my ways, hiding from the world, and running away from my goals.  patm is like "no you will not live your life that way".  I am now taking the steps to be happy.  It's changing the way that I think and being more honest.  It's speaking my mind.  It's respecting myself.  It's loving myself and giving to others.  patm is not okay with me being shy, patm is a side effect of not chasing happiness.  I know that one day I will look back and be grateful for the path that was given to me.  I am learning to be grateful for it now, and changing my thinking.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
My dentist said that there is a bacteria in my tooth canal.. So i'm going to get this tooth removed..

The right side of my face feels numb and I have problems with my throat.

I think this "disease" is caused by bacteria that enter the digestive system and irritate the kidneys, colon and liver. The reactions are in my opinion caused by an overactive liver/ kidney that irritate again other people.

I once found on a forum a girl that talked about her liver that was overactive and irritated other people with the same complaints. I do not know how this is possible but I do think that it is also not really easy to understand for scientists otherwise their would already be a solution.

Just want to share this because I do think that more people are having maybe this same problem.

Greetings!
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
The liver thing has probably something to do with the free radicals... Kind of electrical reaction.. With all the nights and days of research I always come at the same thing..

Bacteria/ Candida - Leaky gut - Free radicals - Liver and kidneys

For instance L-Glutamine/ Calcium/ VitD3 really lower the symptoms, and this is due because there are less toxins coming in our blood (stonger dgestve system).. Our liver and kidneys can not handle all the problems. And then they create our problems!
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
To be fair, if you search for any symptoms on the internet, 'Candida' is almost always mentioned as one of the possible culprit. 'Candida' is the ultimate buzzword to sell supplements to suburban moms.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
I continue to take d3 every day (it's day 11).  I think that PATM is just mostly caused by stress.  I was looking up the relationship to magnesium and anxiety and found this article:http://www.mgwater.com/rod19.shtml

I found these parts of the article interesting: "Thus animals deprived of magnesium suffer from superexcitability to such an extent that they become hysterical at the sound of small noises or the sight of shadows."

"More than 78 percent of these patients suffered mental confusion, 83 percent were disoriented, all of them suffered hyperreflexia, the kind of exaggerated reflexes that make people jump when they hear an unexpected noise from behind."

I know I can't stand loud noises anymore.  I jump and feel that rush of adrenaline, then can't relax.  

I think once you reach a certain amount of constant anxiety, nothing in the body works right.  First thing that happens is your body flushes out all of the magnesium.  That's why the stress just gets worse and worse, because you need to recover from it.  Some people get PATM after experiencing a stressful event like a car accident, or sickness.  I am focusing on recovering from stress.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
hey everyone, it's been a while. Went on a trip with my family and the PATM symptoms seemed to have gotten better, but definitely still there. It was nice to get out of the house. I've mostly stayed inside most of the summer sadly. Has anyone had their hormone levels checked out. I just got my thyroid checked out and everything came back normal. I have various hypothyroid symptoms and was hoping that might be the cause of the PATM, but unfortunately, everything came back not only normal, but optimal numbers. The reference range for TSH is 0.5-5.0 on the labs, but the optimal levels in healthy people is around 0.3-3.0 and mine came back 1.7. Same for the Free T4 and T3 where my numbers were at the high end of the reference range which is optimal.

I'm going to try to get a full hormone panel and see if I have any issues. I return to school in 3 weeks and I'm just not looking forward to it at all. I see you guys are talking about vitamin D. I regret to say that I've taken Vitamin D3 5000iu daily for several months and now and have not seen any improvement in PATM symptoms.

I've talked about my symptoms before, but I'll list them again and let me know if we have matching symptoms

1)obviously the #1 symptom is the PATM reactions that we cause

2)I have this disgusting yellow coating on my tongue that is worse and better on some days. I'm able to scrape it off after brushing my teeth, but by the end of the day, there will be a nasty yellow/orange coating on my tongue

3) constant post nasal drip and I mean constant, like it never goes away. It has gotten to the point where I've gotten used to the sensation, but there are times where it is really thick and really annoys me. This started about a month after I started noticing reactions

4) various hypothyroid symptoms: fatigue, puffy face, cold intolerance, etc

5) And again, some of you are arguing about body odor/nasal odor, I know for me, I definitely have some type of odor I'm emitting that is most likely the cause of these reactions. It's painfully obvious by the reactions that there is an odor. My own family members hold their hand to their nose when they're around me. Some of you are lucky to not have an odor associated, but some of us do and there's no point in arguing about it.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
great research !    I agree about these supplements for reducing PATM and correcting leaky gut, bacteria, candida - they have helped me greatly too


L-glutamine powder, Vitamin D3, probiotics , calcium etc.


God Bless always !!!
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
God bless you jonsnow1348, hang in there u can do this!!!

please add to your daily regimen:   oregano oil capsules (p73 n the label), probiotics

l- glutamine powder in smoothies, no sugar ( i use stevia)

oil pulling with coconut oil upon waking before brushing teeth or breakfast

epsom salt baths

what are your food choices ????
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Hi there. Sorry to hear you've been suffering. I totally understand. It's been nearly two decades for me. The coating on your tongue sounds a lot like oral thrush (caused by Candida). There are both prescription and natural remedies for this. Grateful2011's recommendations are on point. You should try them.

Also, the smell component is real for a lot of ppl. I think it's more of a gut issue. Any digestion probs?
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Honestly, for those with a smell/odour, at least you have something that the doctor will believe and thus help you in figuring out where it's coming from and what it is.

I've given up on trying to reduce patm, I don't care I want people to sneeze, cough, etc. I want people to figure it out themselves by making a connection to me. If they tell me or even say I think I'm causing their symptoms, I'll be happy as I can get their name and number and have my doctor call them to verify. I am so over trying to restrict myself I've been eating gluten and dairy again. I still get reactions just don't care anymore, it has definitely reduced my stress a bit but I still want to find the answer to this curse.

For those thinking about getting together to prove that patm is real, I say go for it. I would join in but I'm not from the US. It would be easier for those living there to get together. I say it's worth it, even the cost of a plane ticket if we can find the answer and cure to this. Good place to meet would be in Texas? Where ray2502's allergist work. We've got to do something otherwise life is just going to pass by as miserable as can be. I've said before if anyone knows of or can get acess to gc/ms do it. It will get us one step closer to finding the answer. There's no point in arguing, complaining, hoping...we need to be proactive. Anyone agree?
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Convincing a mere family doctor that PATM is real won't achieve anything, they are powerless. You would need to convince someone working in medical research, or an Ear/nose/throat doctor or someone who specialize in allergies. Basically, a top of the food chain scientist who can conduct experiments. Not just some doctor who sits in an office all day and prescribes pills, they can't do anything for us.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
i agree...we need someone who can do new findings and researches and experiments....doctors just go by the book.And they are not progressing at all.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
I am going to get the hiB/menC booster vaccine tomorrow, I will let you guys know if I do find any improvement in patm. That is the haemophilus influenzae type b/ meningitis C booster vaccine. I cannot find a place where they do hib on its own.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
That's why I said in Texas, where ray2502's allergist works. Dr. Flanagan and Saraf seem to have in interest in what we are experiencing, even ray2502 said to call them!
I feel like everyone is just trying different things to see if it works but it never goes away 100% so we need to try other avenues
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
I hear you big time on point 5. As seekinganswers3000 confirmed, there is that component which I think is very common with most on this thread. But. The bad odour only seems to get to certain people and ill back it up by mentioning that my psychiatrist and my psycologist who I've seen plenty of times (for other reasons) since contracting PATM are the only people who believe that I have/could have this condition but they are convinced that nothing is affecting them and if it does they are not aware of it but are still wise enough to agree that I could be emitting something .
What frustrated the hell out of me was trying to bash into the heads of  others that an allergy does not have to be smelt in order for it to exist.

Back to the smelling part.
The blatant placing of the cupped hand millimetres from the nose is a common action. I even have a 'friend' who places his forefinger straight across his nostrils. i mean come on seriously, can you possibly make it more blatant. He's extremely tactless compared to other more sensitive/emotionally-intelligent people who will do it the more discreet way.
One joke I make, if you can call it that,  to some close family and friends when they react is "Shouldn't you see a doctor, you've been coughing for years, surely a lung X-ray is due" or "don't you know it's bad to touch your face, you don't want black heads do you?" And the like.
For years i've tried to kid myself that surely it's not a bad odour, its just an irritant that the reactor is totally unaware of. Sometimes that assumption felt like it was true but Ill live with the fact that its not.
It really hurts us or anyone who knows that they give off an unpleasant smell. Its one hell of a blow to our self esteem  its up to us to make a serious conscious decision that either i'm going to try my damdest to get rid of this, per GRATEFUL2011's advice or deal with it (i'm so grateful for you guys because without the advice you've posted i'd be screwed - I wouldn't now where to start). We can reduce it, 50% is a huge step.

During my worst times I would often ponder that I would be willing to exchange PATM for any physical disease or virus. I would happily welcome cancer and months and months of painful chemo, My mom had breast cancer quite recently, I lost a friend through it all, a number of other  acquaintances. I don't mean to offend anyone who has endured it, Cancer is just an example.My point is that any phys disease is something tangible, something known and proven, something that all humans can sympathise with; something that can be cured. I feel extremely sorry for any person who suffers extreme mental conditions, specifically schizophrenia sufferers and all the different forms of it . Their paranoia, their beliefs in strange things happening; their fear of objects that aren't present, Everything that disturbs them can be attributed to our suffering, not that we are crazy (I hate that term describing anyone), but the principle of others knowing and refusing to acknowledge our condition as being to the very least a distinct, sane possibility.

One more thing, pretty profound if you really think about it. Ask yourself: why/how did this condition SUDDENLY start - how did my mind start processing that something is wrong; Was it only due to a sudden acknowledgement of reactions. Had I not given any thought to what was happening would things be a bit different. These simple questions are something I believe most of you might have pondered in the past.
The one reason I ask all these questions and I address GRATEFUL and anyone who is totally cured is what happened when reactions suddenly vanished. How conscious were you really of the sudden halt, or did it have a latent effect like "Something was out of place there". "Something that has troubled me for years has disappeared". I ask you this because the way (mental processing) people get PATM is the same way they get free of it. Rambling always, anyway would love to hear your views on this.


Thanks for reading (If you did), i just felt like penning some of my thoughts to you all.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Pogo, I have been free of PATM before (it obviously came back).  I noticed it went away the more I got my mind off of it (and reduced stress, anxiety, and depression).  It's coupled with happiness about other things (besides being free of PATM) so you kind of just notice it slip away with your increased happiness/stability.  
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Pogo, I know first hand what you've been suffering with. It's extremely frustrating to have something that affects every aspect of your life and there's no place to turn for help (dr and dr proved useless for me). This condition causes people to be anti-social, interferes with maintaining steady employment(constantly losing and getting new jobs), makes dating almost impossible, and something as simple as having lunch with a friend at a restaurant torturous.

After nearly two decades of suffering, I have finally made some improvement with diet change. I also agree with hellodolly, in that you have to commit to being happy no matter what and try to be as happy and as positive as possible. Every time, without fail, I'm out with my friends, they are constantly rubbing their noses, sniffling, and coughing. I try to have a good time despite this and still continue to hang out whenever I'm asked even though I know what the reactions will be.

It's tough, Pogo, but hang in there. My symptoms are starting to fade and ppl are reacting a little less, so progress is being made. I changed my diet, exercise more often and made a conscious effort to stress less. I also push myself to socialize more despite reactions. You have to live life to the fullest no matter what. We will conquer this. I know it.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
wow, wow. Remember someone mentioned Saccharomyces boulardii  helping? Then i mentioned blue cheese, both of which contain beneficial yeasts.

Well, I was on another forum when someone mentioned PATM reactions and the person said she gets less reactions when she takes a drink called 'Kombucha'. So i googled Kombucha, guess what it is made of ? ...... fermented black tea that contains bacteria and yeast. SO THIS IS THE 3RD TIME PEOPLE MENTION FOOD CONTAINING YEAST HELPING.  
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
sodium bi carbonate helps to reduce my patm
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
hey pogo651, u rock !  thank you for your generous and kind words !

i believe patm is always possible and is dependant upon our choices we make each day - so if I decide to go bacto my old habits of poor food choices and unhealthy lifestyle  - my patm will return !!!! I have experienced this before


we are sensitive to peoples reaction around us - since discovering we have patm - so when we finally make proactive choices to get rid of the patm and it amazinglystarts to make a difference - and start to notice people are no longer sniffling, rubbing their nose, coughing etc - when u are around

it is such a great, reborn, uplifting, freedom, peace and joy feeling- we can dance again yesssssss !!!!!!!!

I am thankful for each patm free moment I have and respect it by continuing  to  make healthy choices  24/7 , 365 days  year joyfully !!!!!

God's continued best always, u got this - never ever give up !!!!!
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Ok, i found Kombucha locally, it's expensive though, like 4$ for 450ml. However, you can make it yourself with a starter kit.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
I tried Kombucha years ago thinking it would help, and had a terrible experience with it. It aggravated my symptoms. However, it may just be me personally that it affects. I say give it a try. It may work.

Blank
Avatar_m_tn
hi folks, i've got my tests back and everything looks normal except I've got vit d deficiency. so my doc prescribed me a powerful vit d supplement (50K UI per week/12 weeks) I don't recommend you take such large dose unless you test and the test comes back low. I will report back in a few weeks once I give the supplement a chance to make an impact. it was a bit difficult to convince the doc to order the vit d test, so go prepared with some good reasons for it (other than PATM of course).
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
sarcos - that's great you went to your doctor and got those tests.  Get those vitamin D levels up!  =)

All - I drink Kombucha all of the time lol.  I like the taste of it.  It IS expensive but it's my little treat.  I've made it before too, it looks gross lol (well obviously, it's a culture).  
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
I wouldn't recommend Kombucha for treating PATM.  It can definitely aggravate symptoms.

HOWEVER --

I use Kombucha to treat another symptom I have -- body odor.  It is the only supplement I've found to be effective for that.  It was tricky, because while I was trying to figure out how to treat the PATM, the Kombucha I was taking for the body odor was having a negative effect.

Then, after I took the Sacc Boulardi and Spanish Black Radish for PATM, and it got cured, I was able to take the Kombucha (and still am doing so) to suppress body odor.  So, there was no more aggravation, because my candida problem wasn't big anymore.  The brand I buy is Raw Kombucha from Garden of Life, but other good options include the Swanson and Vitamin Shoppe brands.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
I thought it was crazy to google such a thing, but I did and can't believe there are other people experiencing this. I first noticed this among my course mates  particularly the ones who have hay fever. They would sneeze pathologically and their eyes would get irritated always in my presence. The same happened when I started to work recently, people at my workplace would start sneezing suddenly and seemed to be puzzled why it happens. I am not giving away my concerns and I hope they will not link it to me as that would be such a crazy thought....
I think it must be infection, bacteria etc causing this. I think I have low grade infection in my lungs followed by lung infection few years ago. I have constant tickling feeling in my trachea and left shoulder blade pain, which I think is radiating from top of my left lung. Doctors say it is not possible to have infection for such a long time and think it is nerve related. I think it is infection though. All my symptoms are also accompanied by really bad breath. Thing that I found helps a bit is garlic, funny enough to my bad breath as well. Once I eat whole fresh garlic clove all my symptoms get better after two days and they stay improved for about 3-4 days and then I have to repeat all my garlic thing again. I have been dealing with this for 4  years now and it really is frustrating. I had antibiotic treatment 2 years ago for h-pylory and it cleared all my symptoms for 2 months, but they gradually came back. This is why I am convinced it is bacteria related and since garlic has some antibiotic properties it helps a bit but not completely. So I think those people around my are experiencing a defence reaction to this bacteria or what ever is cause of my chronic infection. Does anybody else have similar concerns?
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Thanks for the feedback on Kombucha, I'm still gonna try it.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
I have similar symptoms as well..
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
thank you hopeful12345 for sharing, wih us - the great benefits of :


spanish black radish   and  saccharomyces boulardii


just got mine and will now be part of my daily choices !!!
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Hey guys, a major researcher on this has contacted me ..

Contact me by PM if you want details :D
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
There's help and an end to this I promise..
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Hi dear. Nice to hear your voice again. You are on the right path, thank God. Only a research will redeem us. Nothing else but scientific research. We are willing to assist your researcher in whatever manner possible. One area they must concentrate on is the sweat. Certain components in our sweat could hold the key to the PATM mystery. Please inbox me the details on our fb group page. Im very much interested
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
besides sneezing, blowing noses, covering nose/mouth, itchy sinuses, does anyone's patm cause people to become say, sleepy and tired/exhausted?
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
yes i have if  that happen with me  every day people sitting near my they feel sleepy and tired
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
omg .....patm related our energy field there is another group hy guys search your google ....why people sleepy around me I am shocked and there talking about energy field ...probably ...satvik energy ....wow...I found my answer people not coughing and snezzing they sleepy tired exhausted ...around me every day
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
yh people get headaches,throwp tired/exhausted, aroundme
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
yup.. feeling of tiredness.. sleeping.. eyes watering.. getting angry lol.. these are the symptoms which i give out as well..  well, i have been trying to follow a healthy diet.. yeah, there has been some reduction in the odor i guess..ppl not complaining about the odor much now.. but still ppl do cough..like there is some dust in air.. so.. have to keep on fighting!
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
No problem!  Happy for you!
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Hi Worsethanjob,

Great to hear you too.. didn't think you got my message before on the facebook page.. no probs will email you

Blank
Avatar_f_tn
This researcher wants to take all of us on.. please inbox me if you haven't guys...

this is literally our prayers answered xxx
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
and we just need to talk to the guy online. No personal appearances , completely anonymous..

In fact, use the names or create a false name on the fb page we have 'patm community' and he'll talk to us on there.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Yup that too..is not new to me. i get that alot to. But to hell with them...dont get it on your nerve..refocus.think of getting back to your life.what makes yu happy.this thinking will make you inhale fresh aire. Sometimes i make fun of it.....When ever i am with pipol ...i already imagine a particular person reaction and i already exhale it in my mind..then i inhale fresh bright happy ideas and words like God, faith, happiness, money...then i exhale and think of the opposite like anger,uncertainty , unconfident or whatever negative feeling im feeling rigth now.kind of inegrates me to what i want and what ive just been a moment ago.Making me choose which one i want better....then i inhale agen thinking only of the goodies..and exhale..and do again the comparison. As long as u do this ull see less reaction.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Hey 1st post

tried dannon activa garden blue berry yogurt.  has really helped with my symptoms the 2 days i have taken it
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
So glad you shared that. To survive and overcome this, it really is super important to be as positive as possible. I won't oversimplify it and say that it's easy, but you really have to try as hard as you can. That's how I've maintained all these years.

On a side note... For those suffering from bad breath, I've recently found that eating yogurt works and the freshness lasts for hours. Personally, I plan to couple this with oil pulling in the mornings as suggested by grateful2011. This, of course, is in addition to regular brushing and flossing.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Glad it worked for you. I had a major setback with it after nearly 6 wks of dramatically reduced symptoms. No more for me. :(
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
I think we need fruit enzymes and probiotics work as grest team
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
So do u mean it no longer works for u .probabli just have to give it some break and bring it back aftersometime
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
It's never worked for me, but everybody is different. Activia is loaded with sugar which may be part of the reason for me.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Hey friends, here's the solution.
1 be patient. Time is your healer
2 make the decision every morning to be happy and create positive energy
3 pray each day, or at least make a conscious decision within yourself to calm down and be grateful internally
4 stop eating processed junk. Anything from a factory, has probably lost its nutrition.  Junk food undoes the healing process.
5 balance your diet, fruit, vegetables, seeds, nuts... Meat, dairy and starchy foods like grains should be limited to keep you fresh healthy and light. If you cheat, never feel bad. Eat at least half of your F & V Raw. Try to never overeat, instead choose to feel out your emotions. Observe the mind.
6 as you go along your journey dont let any person or any persons reaction make you feel guilty, your positivity heals you.  Keep your vibration high.
7 tell someone you love them each day. If you haven't anyone to tell, better yet, tell God.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Minor addition, if you don't believe in God. Tell yourself "I love you" self love is also very important.

If you are looking for a dietary guideline to help realign the intestinal flora.
Please check out GAPS online.

This is very famous for healing the digestive system.
It has to do with staying away from certain types of carbs starches and sugars (saccharides) that remain undigested in a damaged bowel, feeding pathogens and creating inflammation that prevents the bowel wall from healing and stops friendly bacteria from repopulating. Probiotics essential, the instructions are all online with many sites to choose from its a worldwide healing technique. all will be explained just check it out. Gut and Psychology Syndrome (GAPS)
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Thanks for your posts. A lot of what you mentioned has been discussed and suggested here (check out some earlier posts to get an idea). Most of us are already on diets of some kind, taking probiotics, herbal supplements, vitamins, and even vaccines in hopes to reduce or possibly eliminate this issue altogether. Since the immune system is located in the gut, this is the first area most ill people tend to target first. On being positive... this is super important. It's difficult at times when confronted with reactions from other people, but we must try daily. Again, thanks for your recommendations.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
That's cool. It's just all about time and balance and minimising things in our diet that are overly processed. Balance in all thngs including your mind. The interesting thing about GAPS is that it bridges the link between the issues of mental balance and balance in the gut. I think our issue does stem from something related to emotions. Controlling our emotions is a big deal, and we should talk about this more  especially the healthy expression of emotions. This is a good place for that. But at the end of the day how we express ourselves day to day is what matters, along with loving intentions toward those around us as long it's done in a way that is soothing. Release and let go :-)
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
yo guys buttermilk  it has probiotics and ithelps with digestive probms
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Worrying, stressing or over the top consideration of what our next food, supplement or healing concept is going to be only makes it harder for our mind to do all the other 10 trillion processes it has to do this second. Chillax and just focus on being in a positive space. Get a massage. Take a bath. Let the mind do it's job. The ultimate probiotic is homemade KEFIR , YOGHURT or if your vegan SAUERKRAUT. If you research GAPS you will learn how to make all of it. I'm sure buttermilk is good for you, the less processed the better, if you have it in moderation and also enjoy it with a smile I'm sure it will do you good.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
what do u guys do at freetime and does the reactions bother you
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
During free time ( which is lots of of no job :D )  i watch movies.. inspirational or sad movies which would help to cry :P .. now a days i am learning slowly to ignore the reactions.. hope i get better at it. but its hard
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Has anyone experience less patm when coming home from doing groceries or shopping compare to prior where ur just on your way to shopping or grocery....less patm after yuuve done the groceries....hahah strange patm very comnected to our emotions..like some energy block when were thinking too much on what to buy..
Blank
Viewing 7401-7598 comments:
Post a Comment
To
Blank
Weight Tracker
Weight Tracker
Start Tracking Now
People Allergic to Me (PATM) Community Resources
RSS Expert Activity
233488_tn?1310696703
Blank
New Cannabis Article from NORTH Mag...
Jul 20 by John C Hagan III, MD, FACS, FAAOBlank
242532_tn?1269553979
Blank
3 Reasons Why You are Still Binge E...
Jul 14 by Roger Gould, M.D.Blank
242532_tn?1269553979
Blank
Emotional Eating: What Your Closet ...
Jul 09 by Roger Gould, M.D.Blank