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If you knew you were having a special needs would you still have it?
This may be kind of long, but I'd really like to get you guy’s opinions:
My cousin has a 9yr old son with autisim and he's high functioning, he just has severe behavioral problems. Her daughter is 2 1/2 and wasn’t born with the same problem. She's currently 13wks and just had an amino which confirms that this child will probably have autisim as well. She's having a hard time deciding what she wants to do. The dr asked her if she wanted to terminate. I was thinking "NO" was going to come flying out but it didn’t. She confided in me that she's tired and truly has her hands full with her son which I can testify to. They let her know that this child may be worse off then the 1st. I can’t tell her what I would do b/c I don’t want to guilt her into doing something she doesn’t want to do. Her husband is in the air force and is currently over seas. His tour just started so it's likely he won’t even be back for the birth.
It's easy for me to say "oh I would welcome this baby with all the challenges", but at the same time I don’t have a child that already requires my every breath! Honestly ladies, what would you do? How would you cope? She wants to make a decision before she reaches 16wks and I honestly can’t tell her what to do b/c I don’t know myself. HELP
My cousin has a 9yr old son with autisim and he's high functioning, he just has severe behavioral problems. Her daughter is 2 1/2 and wasn’t born with the same problem. She's currently 13wks and just had an amino which confirms that this child will probably have autisim as well. She's having a hard time deciding what she wants to do. The dr asked her if she wanted to terminate. I was thinking "NO" was going to come flying out but it didn’t. She confided in me that she's tired and truly has her hands full with her son which I can testify to. They let her know that this child may be worse off then the 1st. I can’t tell her what I would do b/c I don’t want to guilt her into doing something she doesn’t want to do. Her husband is in the air force and is currently over seas. His tour just started so it's likely he won’t even be back for the birth.
It's easy for me to say "oh I would welcome this baby with all the challenges", but at the same time I don’t have a child that already requires my every breath! Honestly ladies, what would you do? How would you cope? She wants to make a decision before she reaches 16wks and I honestly can’t tell her what to do b/c I don’t know myself. HELP
Just wanted to back up a few others here and let you know that autism is not detectable by amnio. I talked to my Dr. about amnio as I was going to have it, and as I have 2 family members with autism (they are brothers to each other, and my 1st cousins), I specifically brought it up. He told me there is no test to detect autism until after the child is born, and that it is pretty tough to detect before 12-18 months. It shows up in develepmental issues. As for what I would do, I am grateful I haven't been put in a position to make that decision, so I honestly can't comment.
I do wish your friend all the best though, and my thoughts and prayers are with her.
I do wish your friend all the best though, and my thoughts and prayers are with her.
There is no way in the world I would terminate. I am currently 24wks pg and at 18wks we found out that are son has a very serious heart problem. He will have to undergo several surgeries and this could have a major impact on the rest of his life. My obgyn was so supportive, he said he is still young it has time to self heal. But they stinkin' pedatric cardologist. was like yes it could self heal, but some people choose to abort. I was like what the hell??!!! Why in the world whould I give up this wonderful little person. I have not lost hope or faith, and will put all in God's hands now. Too many times science is wrong. People need to start hoping for the best and praying for a miracle. I agree with the rest of the gals, something else must be going on!
I really hope she decides to keep her baby. Please keep us posted.
I really hope she decides to keep her baby. Please keep us posted.
no ... I would not terminate the baby.
It takes a special person to have the patients and she must be really somthing special.
There are people who would adopt a baby with special needs.
Tell her to look at her son now and ask herself that question. and if she could do it? I bet she wouldnt be able to.
Let her know that is his brother or sister.
If it were me? yes I would be shocked and overwhelmed with emotions. but thats whats so wonderful about the amnio testing. gives you time to prepare and do what you need to do to prepare for it.
I fill so sad for her going thru this. but you as a friend. needs to just keep reasureing her it will all turn out for the best. who knows? maybe she has a calling !
I have a friend who has an autisim child and I never even knew it.until she pointed it out to me. like you said, he doent test your limits! All children are going to be a challenge. no matter what. its the parents job to learn up on it and go with what ever the issue may be. Thats whats so wonderful about having a child is that it gives you milestones to prepare for and learn. Wish her the best for me. I prey she has the strength to get thru this without making a crazy mistake that would haunt her the rest of her life. She will cope! its amazing on how strong a woman can really be. Just as a friend be there for her and listen... she will have the answer already, and is just turning for reasurance. Let her know you are there for her and for love and help. ONLY SHE CAN MAKE THAT DECISION.and it will back fire on you if give such.
short story... My dearest and closest friend, when I found out I was pregnant. I too was shocked and going thru tough times... drs told me I was high risk for DS.. numbers and all.. anyway.. after I accepted the fact and did alot of reading about ds..
My friend told me she was beside me and if i wanted to terminate she would understand. you know... I resent her for that..and I dont think our friendship will ever be the same now. she is a cousen of mine on dh side too.( like sisters) I have never told her but .... lets put it this way.. She wont be a God parent... nor will have any ties with this child.
Just be careful on what you say to her.. be a friend and listen.. help.... and just to be there for her...
ugh.. sorry so long
It takes a special person to have the patients and she must be really somthing special.
There are people who would adopt a baby with special needs.
Tell her to look at her son now and ask herself that question. and if she could do it? I bet she wouldnt be able to.
Let her know that is his brother or sister.
If it were me? yes I would be shocked and overwhelmed with emotions. but thats whats so wonderful about the amnio testing. gives you time to prepare and do what you need to do to prepare for it.
I fill so sad for her going thru this. but you as a friend. needs to just keep reasureing her it will all turn out for the best. who knows? maybe she has a calling !
I have a friend who has an autisim child and I never even knew it.until she pointed it out to me. like you said, he doent test your limits! All children are going to be a challenge. no matter what. its the parents job to learn up on it and go with what ever the issue may be. Thats whats so wonderful about having a child is that it gives you milestones to prepare for and learn. Wish her the best for me. I prey she has the strength to get thru this without making a crazy mistake that would haunt her the rest of her life. She will cope! its amazing on how strong a woman can really be. Just as a friend be there for her and listen... she will have the answer already, and is just turning for reasurance. Let her know you are there for her and for love and help. ONLY SHE CAN MAKE THAT DECISION.and it will back fire on you if give such.
short story... My dearest and closest friend, when I found out I was pregnant. I too was shocked and going thru tough times... drs told me I was high risk for DS.. numbers and all.. anyway.. after I accepted the fact and did alot of reading about ds..
My friend told me she was beside me and if i wanted to terminate she would understand. you know... I resent her for that..and I dont think our friendship will ever be the same now. she is a cousen of mine on dh side too.( like sisters) I have never told her but .... lets put it this way.. She wont be a God parent... nor will have any ties with this child.
Just be careful on what you say to her.. be a friend and listen.. help.... and just to be there for her...
ugh.. sorry so long
I agree with cpatow. My best friend had her son go through ALLLL the testing for Autism & Aspergers and had to wait until he was a certain age even to get proper results. It's not something you can just go give blood and test the genetics or they wouldn't take so much time diagnosing these children. Also, I have asked if I take the Pre-natal w/DHA if that would prevent my kids from getting this and there is so much unknown they can only say No. There is something else that these doctors are diagnosing her amnio results with because I'm confident it's not Autism.
I would just really, really implore her to "question" (not negatively, but gently) her doctor's "confirmation" of these percentages towards Autism. Given what we know now this seems unlikely and I'd like to know where this doctor is getting his facts. Could she be mis-interpretting the results to be something different? She should definitely talk to a geneticist to have a more solid understanding of what the numbers mean. Results and numbers either given to or delivered from the wrong source can be devastatingly incorrect. If you don't understand the basis behind the numbers or what the numbers are REALLY tell you you can wind up thinking your looking at apples when you're really looking at oranges. And I put myself in that same boat. I don't know what the genetic blood test she had reveals so I don't want to say I even come close to knowing....that's what the pro's are for!!
Oh Lordie I will be praying for her. I'd have a lot of anxiety right now having been through what we have with our son if I had to deal with this all over again, but like you said, God knows ... not us.
Oh Lordie I will be praying for her. I'd have a lot of anxiety right now having been through what we have with our son if I had to deal with this all over again, but like you said, God knows ... not us.
80/20 the trait for Autism? Not possible. They must have found an abnormality of some sort but I would not accept that the kid would have ANY kind of Autism. Google amnio and Autism, no link to it, they cannot test in the womb.
I just read her your post so hopefully where two or more touch and agree will be enough to sway her to get the 2nd opinion. She was in the dark too wondering how can they be so sure about this unborn baby and she had no warning signs about the 9yr old. The doc's office told her the percentage was 80/20 that the child would have the triat which of course we know is greater than 50/50. Either way I know the family will all be there for her as much as possible, and I hope she's not looking at her life as a curse rather than the gift that it is. She asked me "what's wrong with me, why do I keep having disable kids?" I told her maybe she's a patient & caring enough vessel and the Lord is using her b/c he knows she can handle the task.
I am concerned with confirms probably... that is not a sure thing... I wish her luck...
I can't find the specific journal article after googling what I had used before. I was going back to school to become a nurse and in one of my courses I read up on this as it was during the time my son was in the throws of his issues. I've since had to table completing nursing school (want to go back eventually) but all of this is so fresh on my mind. At any rate, I've also learned to be very careful what studies you let yourself believe and what ones you don't. I'm attaching the below link because it comes from the American Medical Assn and provides links to verified, professional medical journals. The bottom line is that genetic testing for autism is in its infancy (no pun intended) and from what I can gather there are still no fetal tests available for it.
An interesting note....did you know that Bill Gates may have Aspergers? I had heard this many, many moons ago as I'm currently in the IT industry. Today while doing some reading on your behalf there was another article on MSNBC that talked about Bill Gates and how prenatal testing back in his infancy may have swayed his parents one way or the other....while these kids can be socially inept at times, look at the contribution to society that many of them have! These kids tend to be the nerdy ones but these are the ones that also can provide many of the most astounding technological advances or create inventions. So I'd also encourage your sister to look at the bright side.
Also, I believe (also not a fact...I'm not sure on this entirely) that the genetics leaning comes more from the dad than the mom (again, could be wrong on this...seems to be something I studied though). So if the 9 yr old was with a previous relationship then odds rae greater for a non-autistic birth, however I believe it can also be passed down from the mother. Anyone know more on this? I"m curious now if this is right or wrong. Maybe one of the study links in the link below will answer.
At any rate, good luck with this!!
http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2008/01/28/hlsa0128.htm
An interesting note....did you know that Bill Gates may have Aspergers? I had heard this many, many moons ago as I'm currently in the IT industry. Today while doing some reading on your behalf there was another article on MSNBC that talked about Bill Gates and how prenatal testing back in his infancy may have swayed his parents one way or the other....while these kids can be socially inept at times, look at the contribution to society that many of them have! These kids tend to be the nerdy ones but these are the ones that also can provide many of the most astounding technological advances or create inventions. So I'd also encourage your sister to look at the bright side.
Also, I believe (also not a fact...I'm not sure on this entirely) that the genetics leaning comes more from the dad than the mom (again, could be wrong on this...seems to be something I studied though). So if the 9 yr old was with a previous relationship then odds rae greater for a non-autistic birth, however I believe it can also be passed down from the mother. Anyone know more on this? I"m curious now if this is right or wrong. Maybe one of the study links in the link below will answer.
At any rate, good luck with this!!
http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2008/01/28/hlsa0128.htm
I have no experience with this, but as a friend, I would ask her to ask HERSELF the following questions:
1) Have I explored all medical possibilities to ensure that this child's quality of life will be greatly diminished?
2) Is there something I can change about my support system now to help me better cope with raising two children, one who has special needs?
3) Can I implement changes that will better enable me raise three children, two of whom have special needs?
4) Is my concern over this being heightened by situational stress and hormones?
5) Could I live with myself spiritually on a long-tem basis if I terminate this pregnancy?
6) Is there a support group or resource I can utilize that deals with women who have faced or are facing this decision?
7) Out of 100%, how sure can I be that this child will have developmental problems? Out of 100%, what percentage of seriousness would these be?
I hope she can reflect on these questions and find the answers she seeks. As her friedn, the best thing is to support whatever she decides, even if you don't agree with it, which I am sure you will do.
You both (along with her kids) in my prayers.
--Heather Jo
1) Have I explored all medical possibilities to ensure that this child's quality of life will be greatly diminished?
2) Is there something I can change about my support system now to help me better cope with raising two children, one who has special needs?
3) Can I implement changes that will better enable me raise three children, two of whom have special needs?
4) Is my concern over this being heightened by situational stress and hormones?
5) Could I live with myself spiritually on a long-tem basis if I terminate this pregnancy?
6) Is there a support group or resource I can utilize that deals with women who have faced or are facing this decision?
7) Out of 100%, how sure can I be that this child will have developmental problems? Out of 100%, what percentage of seriousness would these be?
I hope she can reflect on these questions and find the answers she seeks. As her friedn, the best thing is to support whatever she decides, even if you don't agree with it, which I am sure you will do.
You both (along with her kids) in my prayers.
--Heather Jo
Pls let me know when you find that link so I can see if this is what she had done. I really want her to make an informed decision not one filled with panic and fear. Life is hard enough on her as it is, and the family try to give her a break as much as possible, but like I was telling the other ladies she thinks that b/c he has this disability that he's immune to discipline. When he's at my house he know that cousin Amy will tear that a** up so he doesnt try me the way he tries her. Wow this is a tough one!
I don't think it's possible for Autism to show on an amnio.
I know I'm in the minority here, but if I were to know for sure that my baby had something seriously wrong and there is no way it would live a somewhat normal life or survive long - if at all - after the birth I would probably choose to terminate, although it would haunt me for the rest of my life.
If I learned it were Downs or Autism, I don't think I could ever end the pregnancy since there are so many variations on the quality of life.
I do thank God every day that I have not had to make that decision.
I know I'm in the minority here, but if I were to know for sure that my baby had something seriously wrong and there is no way it would live a somewhat normal life or survive long - if at all - after the birth I would probably choose to terminate, although it would haunt me for the rest of my life.
If I learned it were Downs or Autism, I don't think I could ever end the pregnancy since there are so many variations on the quality of life.
I do thank God every day that I have not had to make that decision.
I totally understand that there may be a question of termination depending on the findings, but, Autism can't be one of the findings done in an amnio. So, I'm not sure what diagnosis they are really giving her. That's what I would want to know, what the dr. said to make her Think it was Autism.
They didnt sound right to me either, thats why I wanted to aske you guys what you thought.
Let me clear something up I think there was a misunderstanding. Only the 9yr old is autistic, the 2 1/2yr old is fine. The 9yr old is by her 1st husband and the 2nd child is with her current husband. So she was thinking since her 2nd child was ok, that they would be ok to conceive again. Lets be honest all kids are a gift, but they wanted another one to complete their family, not knowing that they would be faced with another possible difficulty.
Let me clear something up I think there was a misunderstanding. Only the 9yr old is autistic, the 2 1/2yr old is fine. The 9yr old is by her 1st husband and the 2nd child is with her current husband. So she was thinking since her 2nd child was ok, that they would be ok to conceive again. Lets be honest all kids are a gift, but they wanted another one to complete their family, not knowing that they would be faced with another possible difficulty.
With her son she didn’t find out about his autism until he was about 18mths. He was having some developmental issues. Mentally he caught up with his age range, but when he's not medicated he is off the chain. I'm not sure what/how else they tested her besides the amino. I don’t know if they gave her any kind of chromosome testing but I hope they are giving her the correct info before she decides to terminate. I asked her was he testing for downs b/c that’s the only thing I would think that they would be able to give her maybe a 50/50 answer on. I suggested a 2nd opinion.
I just called her back and asked what all the doctor did for her. She said that they did what they call an "early amnio", drew some blood for genetic testing, and did a pap. I told her for her own piece of mind ask that they put her results in an envelope and please find a geneticist or neonatologist to give her a 2nd opinion. She has military benefits so the insurance shouldn’t have a problem with it. I'm glad I asked you guys; when something doesn’t sit right with you, most of the time it's not right!
I just called her back and asked what all the doctor did for her. She said that they did what they call an "early amnio", drew some blood for genetic testing, and did a pap. I told her for her own piece of mind ask that they put her results in an envelope and please find a geneticist or neonatologist to give her a 2nd opinion. She has military benefits so the insurance shouldn’t have a problem with it. I'm glad I asked you guys; when something doesn’t sit right with you, most of the time it's not right!
Thanks for your post!! I kept thinking the same thing that Autism is not detectable w/ amnio and I'm going to research it as I am also sure it's not. With our son he was not diagnosable until the age of THREE. They can have some indication at one-year but for the most part they wait until the child is acclimating (or not) into social environments. And even now, with his teetering on the edge of Asperger's, they won't even make that call until he's in 3rd or 4th grade as they watch what happens when greater social and educational demands are placed on him.
I also just read in a Pediatric medical journal that they are JUST NOW uncovering a genetic test for Autism but it's not fully approved yet. I am going to try and find that link.
I also just read in a Pediatric medical journal that they are JUST NOW uncovering a genetic test for Autism but it's not fully approved yet. I am going to try and find that link.
Let me be super clear that this opinion is just ME and how I dealt w/ a similar situation
My 9yr old daughter is just peachy...a little over sensitive but no issues. My 6 yr old son has ADHD and was 80% behind in development until he was at least 3 years old. They told us at that time that he may have a fatal chromosomal or genetic disease as his level of cerebral dysfuntion was high. I thought for certain at age 14 months that he was autistic. Low and behold he did NOT have any of these things, although jury is still out on the autism spectrum as he may eventually test for Asperger's which is a high-functioning form of Autism, but even if he does have that it will be in its mildest of forms. His entire story is way too long for here, but the long and short of it was that his delays were mostly caused by an inmature underfunctioning sensory integration system, which over the course of time, years, matures. Today he's not behind whatsoever.
As the thought of Autism has always been in the back of my head, that was one of two major reasons that he will be almost seven by the time our 3rd child is born. We thought about and wrestled with the "what-ifs". Autism is a challening, challenging, challenging disease as there are not many things more difficult for a parent to contend with than what is perceived by outsiders as horrible child behavior and the sense that your child has been "stolen" from you. He is there in body and in looks, but not in soul or mind. I know how hard that is and I know how scary it is to feel your next child may be in the same, if not a worse boat.
That being said, if she were worried about having a special needs child for her 3rd, she shouldn't have gotten pregnant, especially with Autism as there are very, very clear indicators that this disorder can be (not alwasy) genetic and can run in families. But I also know first hand that when you get pregnant after haivng a child with special needs (my son is STILL in O/T and P/T) there is nothing that scares you more than having another special needs child, yet you also have the hope that this brith will be different.
I specially chose NOT to do amnio because I didn't want to make that choice. We made the thoughtful decision to get pregnant despite our experiences with our son, because even though he's been a handful for a good percentage of his 6 years our lives have been so richly blessed because of him. To think that, had I had amnio w/ him that would have divulged his difficulties and that doing so may have caused me to question that pregnancy and in turn run the risk of him not being with us today, wow that humbles me. It is through his special needs and his challenges that I have grown and matured as a mom and a person and I love and cherish every single solitary second that he has been here...even though some of those times I want to pull my hair out.
I believe God blesses us with who he chooses to bless us with. We can choose to test for certain disorders with Amnio, but even that doesn't cover everything and should an amnio come back "clean" that is no guarantee that our child will run a perfectly normal healthy life forever. God won't give us more than we can handle...even though it may feel like it sometimes.
Again, these opinion are just my own and are the thoughts and prayers we went through in a similar situation. Everyone's situation is unique and I feel horrible for her that she is facing this. Autism is not an easy disorder to grapple with, that is for sure. I would encourage her to get a 2nd opinion on her results, though, as I didn't think Autism showed clearly on amnio...I could be wrong though.
Christina
My 9yr old daughter is just peachy...a little over sensitive but no issues. My 6 yr old son has ADHD and was 80% behind in development until he was at least 3 years old. They told us at that time that he may have a fatal chromosomal or genetic disease as his level of cerebral dysfuntion was high. I thought for certain at age 14 months that he was autistic. Low and behold he did NOT have any of these things, although jury is still out on the autism spectrum as he may eventually test for Asperger's which is a high-functioning form of Autism, but even if he does have that it will be in its mildest of forms. His entire story is way too long for here, but the long and short of it was that his delays were mostly caused by an inmature underfunctioning sensory integration system, which over the course of time, years, matures. Today he's not behind whatsoever.
As the thought of Autism has always been in the back of my head, that was one of two major reasons that he will be almost seven by the time our 3rd child is born. We thought about and wrestled with the "what-ifs". Autism is a challening, challenging, challenging disease as there are not many things more difficult for a parent to contend with than what is perceived by outsiders as horrible child behavior and the sense that your child has been "stolen" from you. He is there in body and in looks, but not in soul or mind. I know how hard that is and I know how scary it is to feel your next child may be in the same, if not a worse boat.
That being said, if she were worried about having a special needs child for her 3rd, she shouldn't have gotten pregnant, especially with Autism as there are very, very clear indicators that this disorder can be (not alwasy) genetic and can run in families. But I also know first hand that when you get pregnant after haivng a child with special needs (my son is STILL in O/T and P/T) there is nothing that scares you more than having another special needs child, yet you also have the hope that this brith will be different.
I specially chose NOT to do amnio because I didn't want to make that choice. We made the thoughtful decision to get pregnant despite our experiences with our son, because even though he's been a handful for a good percentage of his 6 years our lives have been so richly blessed because of him. To think that, had I had amnio w/ him that would have divulged his difficulties and that doing so may have caused me to question that pregnancy and in turn run the risk of him not being with us today, wow that humbles me. It is through his special needs and his challenges that I have grown and matured as a mom and a person and I love and cherish every single solitary second that he has been here...even though some of those times I want to pull my hair out.
I believe God blesses us with who he chooses to bless us with. We can choose to test for certain disorders with Amnio, but even that doesn't cover everything and should an amnio come back "clean" that is no guarantee that our child will run a perfectly normal healthy life forever. God won't give us more than we can handle...even though it may feel like it sometimes.
Again, these opinion are just my own and are the thoughts and prayers we went through in a similar situation. Everyone's situation is unique and I feel horrible for her that she is facing this. Autism is not an easy disorder to grapple with, that is for sure. I would encourage her to get a 2nd opinion on her results, though, as I didn't think Autism showed clearly on amnio...I could be wrong though.
Christina
Okay, first things first. SINCE WHEN IS AUTISM DETECTED WITH AN AMNIO???? It's not. That is weird, I'm just thinking that that is not a true statement. Maybe something has changed but from my understanding you can't truly diagnose Autism until age 2 anyways. I need more info.....Could there be another underlying problem why she may want to abort?? I just think I'm pretty positive on this one even though I am not a dr.....
yes for sure.....DH and I always said maybe the reason we MC'd all those times were maybe those babies had something wrong and God wanted us to have healthy perfect babies or maybe those babies were perfect and God wanted to give us more of a challenge......so I would definatly keep the baby
All that I can say is 'why would she get pregnant for the 3rd time is she wasn't ready for a possible 3rd. autistic child??'
But there's no place for me to judge, the things are done and she's carrying a life in her womb.... nothing we can do to prevent anymore... so...
I don't have a certain opinion here since like you said I don't have a child with special needs yet... BUT, what would I do??
I would have prevented if there was already a risk for this, and if on top of that it would have happened, then i would just face the true deal.... I would not kill my baby just for that...., i would learn how to deal with him/her. Then again, i have a different view from the rest of the women who hadn't experienced losses.... I know what it is to lose a child... and i would do NOTHING to even think about killing one! so, no, i would not even go thru the tests in the first place... (i didn't....)
But there's no place for me to judge, the things are done and she's carrying a life in her womb.... nothing we can do to prevent anymore... so...
I don't have a certain opinion here since like you said I don't have a child with special needs yet... BUT, what would I do??
I would have prevented if there was already a risk for this, and if on top of that it would have happened, then i would just face the true deal.... I would not kill my baby just for that...., i would learn how to deal with him/her. Then again, i have a different view from the rest of the women who hadn't experienced losses.... I know what it is to lose a child... and i would do NOTHING to even think about killing one! so, no, i would not even go thru the tests in the first place... (i didn't....)
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